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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » The fact that this game is under NDA says more about the state of the game than anyone breaking the NDA

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163 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17219

1/10/14 7:47:11 PM#41
Originally posted by Panzerbase

 

Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

"Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

"ok cool, thanks for your interest".

or

"Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

 

But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

 

 

  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 495

1/10/14 7:48:32 PM#42

Remember when TOR stayed under NDA until AFTER release?

 

Makes me go Humm...

  JJ82

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 933

1/10/14 7:49:25 PM#43
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Xiaoki

Carbine dropped the NDA for Wildstar for early levels and has had a bunch of other previews for the game.

TESO has shown ....pencil sketches of armor.


When an MMO is as tight lipped about everything just a couple months from release its easy to tell that are trying to hide something.

It shows that they have no confidence in their product.

Or it shows that they have so much confidence in their product that they don't feel the need to hype it up through beta marketing.

 Did you really just attempt to say that they are not trying to hype up TESO?!?

Podcasts, youtube channel, Facebook page, Tweeter, massive amounts of interviews on every gaming site, having every TES wiki and fan site update their 2nd age lore with TESO story information........keep reaching buddy.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  neobahamut20

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 359

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

1/10/14 7:50:34 PM#44
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Panzerbase

 

Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

"Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

"ok cool, thanks for your interest".

or

"Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

 

But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

 

 

Pin me, pay me.

Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2997

1/10/14 7:51:43 PM#45
Lets take a guess and assume it is fact. That's the proper way to live life.
  PsychoPigeon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 587

1/10/14 7:51:54 PM#46
Originally posted by neobahamut20
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Panzerbase

 

Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

"Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

"ok cool, thanks for your interest".

or

"Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

 

But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

 

 

Pin me, pay me.

Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

Because money doesn't affect people in 'non' capitalist countries?

  neobahamut20

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 359

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

1/10/14 7:57:04 PM#47
Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
Originally posted by neobahamut20
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Panzerbase

 

Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

"Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

"ok cool, thanks for your interest".

or

"Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

 

But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

 

 

Pin me, pay me.

Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

Because money doesn't affect people in 'non' capitalist countries?

People of non-capitalist countries are going to have much more value in humanitarian values such as keeping their word. People from capitalist countries worship money as a religion. They never have enough, always want more of everything. Religion is expansion. Since capitalism acts as a religion, capitalists only seek to expand. Be it their world views, their critiques, their power, it doesn't matter so long as they can spread their self ego around. So when the novelty effect wears off, they become unpredictable, without mentionning the fact that for many people it is actually profitable to break the NDA. Capitalists need to have something to lose if you want them to be trustworthy... beta testers have nothing to lose, especially if the game sucks anyways. Give them money, which is power to them, and breaking the NDA will suddenly become much less tempting.

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17219

1/10/14 8:03:01 PM#48
Originally posted by neobahamut20
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Panzerbase

 

Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

"Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

"ok cool, thanks for your interest".

or

"Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

 

But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

 

 

Pin me, pay me.

Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

I don't think you thought that through.

Them paying you has nothing to do with the agreement because you already know you are not going to get paid. There are many instances in life where you "wont' get paid" but you are expected to keep your side of the deal.

I have no problem with testers getting paid and I also have no problem with people being smart enough to know that they are incapable of doing the task at hand unless they get paid and therefore "bow out".

So why would you have someone "pin you" if you know you won't get paid?

Also, the general thrust of these agreements is that fans who are interested want these games to be as "good" as they can be.

However, I also know (read: witnessed - especially in the last ESO beta) that some beta testers just have no clue on what an actual beta is and think that they are just there to have a good time. Sometimes the level of "stupid" is astounding. Which is a shame.

I have also witnessed designers removing things/changing things that, if the gamer populace found out they would cry and scream and bring the genre down another notch. Even though there might be good reasons to do it.

In the LOTRO closed betas the vendors, trainers were all outside. And it was great, Bree felt like a real city, there was life, people interacted and, as I said,  it was great. But it was only great for those who had decent machines because many people had frame rate issues.

so into the buildings everyone went until much later in the game's cycle when they brought more out in the open.

It's a pretty simple concept: someone makes you an offer, you agree or don't agree and then move on from there.

but alas some just can't handle it.

(edit: keep in mind that I have Huge positive as well as heavy criticisms about ESO and when the time comes I will express those opinions)

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5425

1/10/14 8:11:27 PM#49
Originally posted by DamonVile
Can you name an mmo that didn't have it's beta under NDA at some point ?

Trove - zero nda, since alpha 0.0.0.

Actually they named the game and 2 days later released it to public alpha testers with no nda.

 

  neobahamut20

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 359

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

1/10/14 8:17:09 PM#50
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by neobahamut20
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Panzerbase

 

Anyone with half a brain can ignore any negative consequences by breaking the almighty NDA, lol what a joke tossing it around like it matters. 

it matters only up to how much "your word" matters.

They say "hey, we'd love you to test this game but would like time to fix things, tweak things, etc and if you are willing to abide by our NDA then, again, we'd love you to test it.

"Hey mister game company, I really don't feel comfortable holding back my opinion on a game so I wouldn't be the correct person to test it".

"ok cool, thanks for your interest".

or

"Hey mister game company, I will test your game and keep your nda and would love to give feedback. Having said that, once NDA is dropped I'll give my honest opinion on what you have wrought".

 

But instead it seems that some "gamers" feel they are internet bad boys liberating information for all the gaming world to see. Ripping the veil of secrecy because some "gamers" just can't use their better judgment and "not buy" something they know very little about.

 

 

Pin me, pay me.

Dont expect people to respect a contract if there is no money attached. Welcome to capitalism. You know most people are in capitalist countries right?

I don't think you thought that through.

Them paying you has nothing to do with the agreement because you already know you are not going to get paid. There are many instances in life where you "wont' get paid" but you are expected to keep your side of the deal.

I have no problem with testers getting paid and I also have no problem with people being smart enough to know that they are incapable of doing the task at hand unless they get paid and therefore "bow out".

So why would you have someone "pin you" if you know you won't get paid?

Also, the general thrust of these agreements is that fans who are interested want these games to be as "good" as they can be.

However, I also know (read: witnessed - especially in the last ESO beta) that some beta testers just have no clue on what an actual beta is and think that they are just there to have a good time. Sometimes the level of "stupid" is astounding. Which is a shame.

I have also witnessed designers removing things/changing things that, if the gamer populace found out they would cry and scream and bring the genre down another notch. Even though there might be good reasons to do it.

In the LOTRO closed betas the vendors, trainers were all outside. And it was great, Bree felt like a real city, there was life, people interacted and, as I said,  it was great. But it was only great for those who had decent machines because many people had frame rate issues.

so into the buildings everyone went until much later in the game's cycle when they brought more out in the open.

It's a pretty simple concept: someone makes you an offer, you agree or don't agree and then move on from there.

but alas some just can't handle it.

Sounds like poor man thinking. Everything is a business, act accordingly, do everything for you and you only, screw the others. Poor people exist because they are easily dominated.

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17219

1/10/14 8:25:26 PM#51
Originally posted by neobahamut20
 

Sounds like poor man thinking. Everything is a business, act accordingly, do everything for you and you only, screw the others. Poor people exist because they are easily dominated.

 

But again "you know you are not going to get paid therefore there is no reason to enter in the agreement".

If you truly want to think that "everything you do is about money then "everything you do will be and should be about money".

You wouldn't be beta testing video games or even wasting your time as, remember, you don't want to be a 'poor man' you want to be a rich man, so you will maximize your income opportunities at every chance you can find.

Remember, we are talking about the idea of "your word". If you word is there for you to make money then you will only be giving your word in instances where you can make money. That's a "commodity" that you are selling.

Additionally, if we follow your line of thinking, you really aren't very business smart because, per the topic of discussion, you are making the exact amount of money whether you keep the nda or break the nda.

Which again is stupid because, as you infer, you want to maximize cashflow at all times and not waste your time with endeavors that are not adding to your bottom line.

 

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 1966

Posts deleted: 12589457

1/10/14 8:47:52 PM#52
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by DamonVile
Can you name an mmo that didn't have it's beta under NDA at some point ?

Trove - zero nda, since alpha 0.0.0.

Actually they named the game and 2 days later released it to public alpha testers with no nda.

 

Except that Trove isn't an mmo, no matter how the trionmongers like to turn it.

  neobahamut20

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 359

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

1/10/14 8:51:09 PM#53
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by neobahamut20
 

Sounds like poor man thinking. Everything is a business, act accordingly, do everything for you and you only, screw the others. Poor people exist because they are easily dominated.

 

But again "you know you are not going to get paid therefore there is no reason to enter in the agreement".

If you truly want to think that "everything you do is about money then "everything you do will be and should be about money".

You wouldn't be beta testing video games or even wasting your time as, remember, you don't want to be a 'poor man' you want to be a rich man, so you will maximize your income opportunities at every chance you can find.

Remember, we are talking about the idea of "your word". If you word is there for you to make money then you will only be giving your word in instances where you can make money. That's a "commodity" that you are selling.

Additionally, if we follow your line of thinking, you really aren't very business smart because, per the topic of discussion, you are making the exact amount of money whether you keep the nda or break the nda.

Which again is stupid because, as you infer, you want to maximize cashflow at all times and not waste your time with endeavors that are not adding to your bottom line.

 

That is wrong:

You get to save money from the free preview if the game sucks. That is huge for a lot of people.

People will pay you for your beta key. Sometimes not much, sometimes a lot. For the weekend, TESO keys arent even worth looking for a buyer, but it was worth much more a few months ago.

People will pay you to leak (especially if in alpha) - There are blogs out there that get visitors from having leaks posted. Not everyone gets to have the convenient domain name mmorpg.com.

The work you do for the corporation is minimal since they have the shittiest testing tools anyways, you really are there to give feedback so they can market the game better. You are really just an idiot to them. So might as well reap the benefits of being a tool and profit from it.

Data miners also want beta access so they can create and test their mining tools since such databases are sought after by the players.

Anything that can attract visitors to a website is worth money. That is the sole reason to get in betas, to sell out.

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  User Deleted
1/10/14 9:37:14 PM#54
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Xiaoki

Carbine dropped the NDA for Wildstar for early levels and has had a bunch of other previews for the game.

TESO has shown ....pencil sketches of armor.


When an MMO is as tight lipped about everything just a couple months from release its easy to tell that are trying to hide something.

It shows that they have no confidence in their product.

Or it shows that they have so much confidence in their product that they don't feel the need to hype it up through beta marketing.

 Did you really just attempt to say that they are not trying to hype up TESO?!?

Podcasts, youtube channel, Facebook page, Tweeter, massive amounts of interviews on every gaming site, having every TES wiki and fan site update their 2nd age lore with TESO story information........keep reaching buddy.

No, I said they aren't trying to hype it up through beta marketing.  They're doing normal marketing stuff like anyone else.  What they aren't doing is trying to generate hype by turning the beta process into some early access thing.  Learn to read buddy.

  vmoped

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

1/10/14 9:59:27 PM#55
Originally posted by asmkm22

No, I said they aren't trying to hype it up through beta marketing.  They're doing normal marketing stuff like anyone else.  What they aren't doing is trying to generate hype by turning the beta process into some early access thing.  Learn to read buddy.

This site is rife with people who complain when a game uses their 'beta' tests as advertisements, and now when a game goes back to a more traditional model of actually doing testing during a beta test its a bad sign...

@OP: By your own logic you cannot compare GW2 and TESO because they are not utilizing the same monetization model.  No one is forcing you to give ZOS money.  Trying to convince everyone else this game will fail due to not dropping their NDA ~4 months prior to launch because another title did not is just immature and flawed logic.

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  MMOredfalcon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/13
Posts: 127

1/10/14 10:16:52 PM#56
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by DamonVile
Can you name an mmo that didn't have it's beta under NDA at some point ?

Guild wars 2 lifted the NDA for the beta weekend events and lifted it for the press even before the weekend events in closed beta. It's not about having the NDA at some point but when they lift it. The fact that they haven't lifted it for this event is telling to me compared to GW2.

Also I get that MMORPG.com respects the NDA so please abide by it.

Edit: To further clarify my position. Guild Wars 2 lifted the NDA for April 27-29 and all beta weekend events after then released August 28th.

GW2 had its closed beta phase too. You are assuming that alll MMOS follow same patterns when it comes to NDA.

No I'm not. I'm comparing a specific example with dates and the same weekend events process.

One lifted the NDA one did not.

Guild Wars 2 Beta wiki

Yeah so what i said. You expect ESO to follow same beta patterns as GW2. Moreover you are comparing an open  beta weekend of GW2 with closed beta weekend of ESO.

Who made this rule that that if beta testing is on weekends it has to be open?

Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't expect ESO to follow the same beta patterns, I didn't assume all MMOs follow the same beta patterns.

Guild Wars 2 could have kept the NDA. They didn't because they were fine with people sharing information about the game and didn't have anything to hide.

Nobody is putting words into your mouth...you are doing it quite well with your posts. You are comparing ESO beta to GW2 beta. Basically saying that ESO isn't doing the same as GW2...so it must be hiding something. So if games aren't following the GW2 pattern, then they are hiding....

  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 904

 
OP  1/11/14 4:10:53 AM#57
Ok I won't compare it to anything then. I'm sure they just have the NDA there to protect the secret sauce and stop people from talking about how awesome the game is.

How to post links. Check it Archeage
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Rhazmuz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/12
Posts: 208

They say you are what you eat.. But I dont remember eating a fu**ing legend!

1/11/14 4:21:23 AM#58
Originally posted by nilden
Ok I won't compare it to anything then. I'm sure they just have the NDA there to protect the secret sauce and stop people from talking about how awesome the game is.

The NDA is there to make sure Zenimax can control the public impression the game makes, and make sure that the public is not allowed to make judgments until they feel the game represents what they envision for it and is in a final state.

Why spark judgments and impressions from a build which isnt final?

Now, you can spin that whatever way you want, but its still the bare bones of it.

  -aLpHa-

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 857

1/11/14 5:56:40 AM#59


Originally posted by nilden
Ok I won't compare it to anything then. I'm sure they just have the NDA there to protect the secret sauce and stop people from talking about how awesome the game is.

To protect them from badmouthing is more like it, if i was Zenimax i wouldn't lift the NDA until release day, so they at least get some of the funding back.

  User Deleted
1/11/14 6:19:46 AM#60
Two months and 25 days to go until launch and people seriously believe this isn't what we're going to get at launch? 
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