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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Feel the Evil

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41 posts found
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5555

1/02/14 11:44:05 AM#21
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
The orcs in ES are the only race that hasn't tried to enslave another. That makes them the "good" race to me.

Yes its about time those no good bosmer slavers were held accountable!

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/02/14 1:43:54 PM#22
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
 

 Stop complaining about stuff being added over time, thats the very nature of an ever expanding MMO...

But don't you realize, if a game has less content at launch than WoW built over the course of nine years, it is teh failz!

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Siphaed

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/17/08
Posts: 797

1/03/14 1:14:50 AM#23
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Siphaed

 

*snip*

 *snip*

Actually they plan to add lots of new skilltrees over the years after release......  Mechanically the thieves guild and the dark brotherhood are just two story trees that each offer their own skilltree...

 

i think there will also be more divine skilltrees.... And special fighting type skilltrees....  Stop complaining about stuff being added over time, thats the very nature of an ever expanding MMO...

But those things are fundamental in The Elder Scrolls games.  Thieves Guild, Fighters Guild, and Dark Brotherhood were all pieces in Oblivion (nearly a decade ago) as well as Skyrim.  To launch the game without those things and simultaneously claim that it's a "true Elder Scrolls game" is a logical fallacy that boarders on absurdity!

Next you're going to tell me that the Mages Guild is also on the "TBD" list of things that'll be added far beyond launch of the actual game.   If that's true, that would mean that they'd have to launch without magical classes at all, right?  And if they did launch with magical classes without the Mages Guild, then it would just be another falsity towards true Elder Scrolls. 

 

Normal MMORPG's add things over time to establish a lore set to it's universe.  They evolve and expand based on what they're created both within the realm of existing IP and created ones.  They do not, however, claim to be based on an existing lore and go completely against said lore and IP; they don't say they're one thing but instead be another.

 

 

P.S. Want a screwed up concept of how this won't be an Elder Scrolls game within the realm of vampires?  Unless a player starts to 1) burn from the sun after a certain period of time,  2) gets near super-human abilities,  and 3) can openly infect other players by biting them or NPC's within the game.....if not all 3 of those things is a possibility with vampirism (Porphyric Hemophilia), then it's not a true Elder Scrolls game.  Instead, it's something adding vampires and werewolves to appease the Twilight fandom that's run rampant for many years.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/03/14 2:02:45 PM#24
Originally posted by Siphaed
 

But those things are fundamental in The Elder Scrolls games.  Thieves Guild, Fighters Guild, and Dark Brotherhood were all pieces in Oblivion (nearly a decade ago) as well as Skyrim.  To launch the game without those things and simultaneously claim that it's a "true Elder Scrolls game" is a logical fallacy that boarders on absurdity!

Next you're going to tell me that the Mages Guild is also on the "TBD" list of things that'll be added far beyond launch of the actual game.   If that's true, that would mean that they'd have to launch without magical classes at all, right?  And if they did launch with magical classes without the Mages Guild, then it would just be another falsity towards true Elder Scrolls. 

Normal MMORPG's add things over time to establish a lore set to it's universe.  They evolve and expand based on what they're created both within the realm of existing IP and created ones.  They do not, however, claim to be based on an existing lore and go completely against said lore and IP; they don't say they're one thing but instead be another. 

P.S. Want a screwed up concept of how this won't be an Elder Scrolls game within the realm of vampires?  Unless a player starts to 1) burn from the sun after a certain period of time,  2) gets near super-human abilities,  and 3) can openly infect other players by biting them or NPC's within the game.....if not all 3 of those things is a possibility with vampirism (Porphyric Hemophilia), then it's not a true Elder Scrolls game.  Instead, it's something adding vampires and werewolves to appease the Twilight fandom that's run rampant for many years.

Fundamental?  Skyrim didn't have the Fighter's Guild or the Mage's Guild.  It had factions that filled a similar narrative role, but it didn't have those.  Morrowind didn't have the Dark Brotherhood.  Arena didn't have any factions at all.  The only faction that has been present in every one of the games that had factions is the Thieves' Guild.  So I'm not sure "fundamental" means what you think it means.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Pigglesworth

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

1/03/14 2:41:56 PM#25
Maybe it's best that the Dark Brotherhood is not in at first. I would think they would only want tried, tested, and proven characters.

Afterall, most of us have to work hard to be DBs. Of course, for some trollers, being a DB is natural.

@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  Lesrach

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/05
Posts: 115

1/08/14 5:14:43 PM#26

Hi !

 

Is there Dark magic genre spells available for players or is damage Elemental based like fire, ice, lightning and sigh?

  UsualSuspect

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1231

1/09/14 8:28:44 AM#27
Originally posted by CazNeerg
What is an assassin?  Somebody who kills for money.  Look at the majority of quests in most MMOs.  You are being paid to kill people.  Under the definition that "being paid to kill people is evil," pretty much every character you play in any MMO would end up being considered evil. 

The difference is the quests in most MMO's are having you kill evil people, such as bandits, groups of orcs, etc. An assassin kills whoever he's paid to kill, be it the fair princess who is going to ruin the plans of the evil prince, or the watch captain because he's getting too close to uncovering a group of necromancers.

There's a difference between being paid to kill someone for profit, and being paid to remove a menace to society. Just look at the army, they're sent in to root out terrorists and being paid for their work. Does that make soldiers evil?

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 2038

May the game be ever in your favor.

1/09/14 10:20:09 AM#28
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
I felt more evil and hypocritical playing the republic side than I did playing the empire in TOR. At least the empire was upfront about it.

Plus the Empire didn't treat the dark elves like utter crap like the Stormcloaks do.

Smile

  NobleNerd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 535

Try not!Do or do notThere is no try.

1/09/14 10:27:43 AM#29
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

its obvious you can play an Evil character in ESO, there will be vampires and Werewolves, and after release they will add the thieves guild and the dark bortherhood.... and i suppose there will even be cults you can join that worship Daedra..  

I also hope the quests you play allow you to choose dark options as solutions so i can at most times play my character as an evil one... 

 

But most important thing to feel like an evil character is NPC´s reacting to you in this way...  

 

I am really wondering how much of these NPC actions we will see..  Because things like this would set the game apart from the rest..

While playing beta I did experience a few moral choice option quests which did cause certain NPCs to react differently to me.

NobleNerdom
Power to the player!

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/09/14 1:45:29 PM#30
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
Originally posted by CazNeerg
What is an assassin?  Somebody who kills for money.  Look at the majority of quests in most MMOs.  You are being paid to kill people.  Under the definition that "being paid to kill people is evil," pretty much every character you play in any MMO would end up being considered evil. 

The difference is the quests in most MMO's are having you kill evil people, such as bandits, groups of orcs, etc. An assassin kills whoever he's paid to kill, be it the fair princess who is going to ruin the plans of the evil prince, or the watch captain because he's getting too close to uncovering a group of necromancers.

There's a difference between being paid to kill someone for profit, and being paid to remove a menace to society. Just look at the army, they're sent in to root out terrorists and being paid for their work. Does that make soldiers evil?

I'm not the one using the "being paid to kill people is evil" definition.  I'm just pointing out that that is the core of what an Assassin is, and *if* you want to label that as evil, you have to label the player character in most MMOs evil.  Look at what most quests actually look like; sure, the quest giver often *tells* you that the people you are being sent to kill are a menace, and need to be killed, but the only thing you ever see most of them doing is defending their homes.  They aren't coming into the cities attacking people, they are sitting in their camps minding their own business, and only become hostile when somebody shows up in their territory with the intent to kill them.  Why do you automatically assume the quest givers are telling the truth?  Do you really care, or do you just skip past their explanation as quickly as possible, so you can get to the killing and get the payment for the blood on your hands?

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  evilized

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 565

1/09/14 1:51:51 PM#31
Think more wow and less swtor as far as things go. Sorry :/
  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/09/14 2:00:12 PM#32
Originally posted by evilized
Think more wow and less swtor as far as things go. Sorry :/

So, what you're saying is we get text boxes instead of voice acting, and extremely poorly written "humor" in place of coherent plot and character development?

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8891

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  1/09/14 2:41:21 PM#33
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by evilized
Think more wow and less swtor as far as things go. Sorry :/

So, what you're saying is we get text boxes instead of voice acting, and extremely poorly written "humor" in place of coherent plot and character development?

He has got no clue what he is spamming....    The quests are the type of quests and the NPC you where used in elder scrolls games...  Cant go wrong with that level of storytelling and questing, can you?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/09/14 2:52:02 PM#34
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by evilized
Think more wow and less swtor as far as things go. Sorry :/

So, what you're saying is we get text boxes instead of voice acting, and extremely poorly written "humor" in place of coherent plot and character development?

He has got no clue what he is spamming....    The quests are the type of quests and the NPC you where used in elder scrolls games...  Cant go wrong with that level of storytelling and questing, can you?

Lol.  So relatively standard MMO fare?  Because that is the quality of most of the quests in Skyrim.  There are parts of Skyrim I love, but it is a perfect example of how *not* to do voice acting.  Most of the voice actors are absolutely terrible, and there seems to be an inverse relationship between the talents of the voice actor, and the number of characters they have them voice.  The most annoying, low-rent VAs seem to be all over the place.  On a conceptual level, voice acted content is superior to text boxes, but only if the voice content is well done, otherwise it makes bad writing seem even worse, and even good writing seem mediocre at best.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8891

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  1/09/14 3:15:03 PM#35
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by evilized
Think more wow and less swtor as far as things go. Sorry :/

So, what you're saying is we get text boxes instead of voice acting, and extremely poorly written "humor" in place of coherent plot and character development?

He has got no clue what he is spamming....    The quests are the type of quests and the NPC you where used in elder scrolls games...  Cant go wrong with that level of storytelling and questing, can you?

Lol.  So relatively standard MMO fare?  Because that is the quality of most of the quests in Skyrim.  There are parts of Skyrim I love, but it is a perfect example of how *not* to do voice acting.  Most of the voice actors are absolutely terrible, and there seems to be an inverse relationship between the talents of the voice actor, and the number of characters they have them voice.  The most annoying, low-rent VAs seem to be all over the place.  On a conceptual level, voice acted content is superior to text boxes, but only if the voice content is well done, otherwise it makes bad writing seem even worse, and even good writing seem mediocre at best.

Well prepare for a dissapointment then... Becaue thats exactly the voice acting i have seen in some videos made on events.  I am okay with thta, you obviously not.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/09/14 5:08:42 PM#36
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
 

Well prepare for a dissapointment then... Becaue thats exactly the voice acting i have seen in some videos made on events.  I am okay with thta, you obviously not.

I can survive it, I just think it's unfortunate when a company takes a bargain basement approach to any aspect of their game.  I come from the "do it well or don't do it at all" school of thought, I'd rather not have a feature at all than be distracted from what's well implemented in a game by those elements which aren't.  Take any given piece of content, however well or poorly written, and the quality of the voice acting is going to either enhance or detract from the quality of that content.  Regardless of what else somebody might think of BioWare's games, that is a company that has consistently awesome voice acting, and it really makes the narrative aspects of the content shine all the brighter.  I am willing to bet even almost universally loved (by critics) games like Mass Effect 2 would have gotten substantially lower scores if they had used the Bethesda approach of having a handful of third-rate voice actors playing somewhere from 5-20 roles each, in the same game.

Is all the VA in Bethesda games bad?  No, but the part that is bad is made that much worse by the egregious overuse of actors playing multiple roles.  Hell, that would be annoying even if the VA wasn't bad.

Bringing the point back around to the topic, and extending the point from this post about it being better to not do something at all than to do it poorly, I really hope they add some meaningful, mutually exclusive moral choices to ESO.  Because really, if you don't have choices within the structured narrative, you can't play a "good" or "evil" character within the story, because good and evil are categories which you must make choices in order to fall into.  This has not been a particular strong point of recent Bethesda games, but since Zenimax is a different company, there may be some hope for ESO.

It would be nice if, instead of having the Dark Brotherhood and simply having your only choice relative to it being to join or not, if they implemented an opposing faction dedicated to fighting them as well, and made it so if you join one, you can't join the other.  That has been an odd thing about most Elder Scrolls games, they give you the option of joining factions that many would consider "Evil," but while most of their factions could fairly be labeled Neutral, they pretty much never provide any that are explicitly "Good."  And to the extent they do have factions which you might be able to manufacture a reason to label as good, there is usually nothing in the game that prevents you from simultaneously being a member of both "good" and "evil" factions.

What is really needed in Elder Scrolls games isn't just a choice to be good or evil, but restrictions on how much content you can access with one character.  That is one sense in which the series has way too much freedom.  If a player does all the content it is possible for a single character to do, there is no way you could possibly bring all those narratives together into a coherent whole.  There are way too many instances where a well written character could not possibly have engaged in particular combinations of actions allowed within the games.  There are no consequences in the broader world to your choices from within a given faction's quests.  No unwillingness from Mages to work with the head of the Thieves Guild, no contempt from Fighters for some sissy Archmage wanting to join their ranks, etc. etc.

Anyway, rant over.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  UsualSuspect

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1231

1/10/14 2:59:31 AM#37
Originally posted by CazNeerg

Look at what most quests actually look like; sure, the quest giver often *tells* you that the people you are being sent to kill are a menace, and need to be killed, but the only thing you ever see most of them doing is defending their homes.  They aren't coming into the cities attacking people, they are sitting in their camps minding their own business, and only become hostile when somebody shows up in their territory with the intent to kill them.  Why do you automatically assume the quest givers are telling the truth?  Do you really care, or do you just skip past their explanation as quickly as possible, so you can get to the killing and get the payment for the blood on your hands?

Well, if you waited for them to attack then you'd be defending the cities, not attacking the source of the problem. Of course they're going to be sitting in their camps minding their own business, which, by the way, is exactly what the innocent peasants were doing when they attacked earlier. Unless you send a formal invitation to meet on the field of battle as the moonlight shines overhead, you're going to be attacking their 'homes' or defending against them.

But I know what you're saying; basically, MMO quests are dumb. I've heard EverQuest Next is fixing this by having groups of monsters moving around, setting up camp unless driven off, attacking lands, rather than being static spawns. That'll be a welcome addition to the genre, for sure.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/10/14 3:49:03 AM#38
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
 

Well, if you waited for them to attack then you'd be defending the cities, not attacking the source of the problem. Of course they're going to be sitting in their camps minding their own business, which, by the way, is exactly what the innocent peasants were doing when they attacked earlier. Unless you send a formal invitation to meet on the field of battle as the moonlight shines overhead, you're going to be attacking their 'homes' or defending against them.

But I know what you're saying; basically, MMO quests are dumb. I've heard EverQuest Next is fixing this by having groups of monsters moving around, setting up camp unless driven off, attacking lands, rather than being static spawns. That'll be a welcome addition to the genre, for sure.

Yeah, it will be nice, if it works.  Would be the first game to break out of the tired sandbox/themepark dichotomy.  Static content is getting a little boring, but player created content is, generally speaking, even more low quality than it is dynamic.  Will be nice to have a professionally developed dynamic system, where the world is created by professionals, and then the process of the player interacting with that world creates the content.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2840

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/10/14 3:54:51 AM#39
Originally posted by immodium
Fingers crossed it feels more like an ES MMO rather than a Twilight one when I log in. :)

Well it definetly isn't a Twilight MMO that's for sure.  As for it feeling like an Elder Scrolls Game, everything points to it not being it either.  It actually looks more like a DAoC/WoW game with an Elder Scrolls skin.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/10/14 12:02:24 PM#40
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by immodium
Fingers crossed it feels more like an ES MMO rather than a Twilight one when I log in. :)

Well it definetly isn't a Twilight MMO that's for sure.  As for it feeling like an Elder Scrolls Game, everything points to it not being it either.  It actually looks more like a DAoC/WoW game with an Elder Scrolls skin.

To be fair, it looks like more of an Elder Scrolls game than Battlespire or Redguard were.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

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