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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Wildstar vs Elder Scrolls Online

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79 posts found
  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1366

1/08/14 12:48:52 PM#21

hey chris!- shoot me a beta key!

 

=)

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4742

1/08/14 12:53:23 PM#22
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by SBFord
the battle to restore the subscription fee

nuff said

It's a good battle.................unfortunately the games themselves are a bit meh.

So when they will both switch to F2P in 3 months, everyone will blame the Subscription model, yet again.

The problem is not the Subscription model, the problem is the average quality of the games that cannot command a Subscription.

 

The most succesful games, WoW and EvE have a subscription as the main model.................... so it works, but the devs need to start making better games.

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1074

1/08/14 1:01:36 PM#23
Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by SBFord
the battle to restore the subscription fee

nuff said

It's a good battle.................unfortunately the games themselves are a bit meh.

So when they will both switch to F2P in 3 months, everyone will blame the Subscription model, yet again.

The problem is not the Subscription model, the problem is the average quality of the games that cannot command a Subscription.

 

The most succesful games, WoW and EvE have a subscription as the main model.................... so it works, but the devs need to start making better games.

Although can they make a game good enough to warrent one, where there are so many, many F2P alternatives?

 

 EvE and WoW both came to prominance during a time where p2p was the only option.  I believe both continue to survive well because of how much time investment people have in these games, making it difficult to break away, not to mention that they are the most populated within their subgenre (themepark and sandbox)

 

Also lets not forget EvE is a sandbox that has already reatched maturity, making it a much more attractive than one that could take years to get to EvE's level.

 

Not saying subs are bad, I played ff14 for a few months.  So I'll happily pay one as long as the game interests me.

 

All I can say for myself, is that the only Elderscrolls game that has engaged me enough to actually beat the man quest line was Morrowind.  Sure'll ill pump a good 50+ hours into the others, but I always end up losing focus and wandering away from em.

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 2164

May the game be ever in your favor.

1/08/14 1:15:04 PM#24
Originally posted by arieste

I'm curious if the writers of this know something more than the rest of us about "real exploration" in WS.  I've read all I can find about the explorer path and I've not found anything to indicate whether this "real exploration" is actually dynamic or just a matter of "you must get to coordinates x & y and click on the same item as the 500000 explorers".  

Exploration is only fun if i don't follow my exploration quest to a hidden faraway cave only to find 10 other explorers already there (on exect same quest to find the exact same thing) saying "here, click this". 

 
 

You're going to be disappointed. All I can say because of the NDA.

Smile

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/08/14 1:15:07 PM#25
Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by SBFord
the battle to restore the subscription fee

nuff said

It's a good battle.................unfortunately the games themselves are a bit meh.

So when they will both switch to F2P in 3 months, everyone will blame the Subscription model, yet again.

The problem is not the Subscription model, the problem is the average quality of the games that cannot command a Subscription.

 The most succesful games, WoW and EvE have a subscription as the main model.................... so it works, but the devs need to start making better games.

People keep making this argument, but the evidence doesn't support it.  WoW is a total fluke.  The past decade of MMOs give zero reason to believe it's level of success can or will be repeated.  And EvE is not a AAA game.  Compared to big name MMOs, it's development, maintenance, and expansion budgets are all tiny, so it doesn't need to make nearly as much money to be considered a success.  Any AAA title that had it's sub numbers drop to the *highest* EvE has ever had has either shut down or done a Freemium conversion.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  monochrome19

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 426

1/08/14 1:36:40 PM#26

He should change his name to Rob "Right on the Money" Lashley because everything he said was spot on. I couldnt agree more sir, I couldnt agree more... :D

  snoocky

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 581

1/08/14 1:43:51 PM#27
Originally posted by Psion33
 

 

 I believe Wildstar will be the "Thing" people will need to get a new "WoW." 

Wrong....It's not the new wow, it is wow...

Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.

Edgar Allan Poe

  popezaphod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 44

1/08/14 2:11:58 PM#28
This article didn't do anything for me.  I have no investment in the Elder Scrolls IP and nothing in this article has sold me on ESO over WIldstar - which sounds fun and exciting.
  Siphaed

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/08
Posts: 870

1/08/14 2:30:39 PM#29

 

 


Rob: You can talk about squirrels and houses all you want. If I wanted cute I’d buy a puppy. I want a war. Not a warplot. I want blood, I want guts, I want to fight for the throne. I want to rescue my soul. Yes, my soul. I want to become the emperor. I want to play in a world that I have spent 100s of hours in over the decades and have grown to love. I want to craft too but I want to get my crafting resources while reaching over the corpse of a dead enemy, not by picking flowers that I grew in my garden or had to fight off some silly worm to mine. 
 

 

 

You're basically asking for Age of Conan with an Elder Scrolls skin.     "Blood, guts, and war" are all things that Age of Conan touted as it proudly displayed it's Mature rating in style.  The game pre-praised it's siege warefare in it's borderlands, only to completely disappoint with an engine that chugged and crashed at more than 20 players in an area. 

 

    As for crafting, I'm not sure the point if there's no trading house available (and as far as the information for TESO, there is no trading house set up for the game); that reminds me of Tabula Rasa's launch without a trading feature until at least a month after it's launch.   And don't dis picking flowers, as that's something that was shown in the TESO crafting video (well, mushrooms and flowers). 

 

Player housing is investment for the player.  It's only a reflection if what you personally want.   Want cute?  Put flower wallpaper  and pink furniture in your house with flowers surrounding it.  Want a trophy spot to display your accomplishments?  Have a house filled with heads and hides of your slaughters as well as surround the outside with spears, weapons, and crazy security systems (even guard NPC's).    There's no such investable system in TESO like there is in Wildstar. Sure you can be Emperor for a week or whatever, but there's no customization for that and it'll only last for a short period until the next highest grinder takes the title.   A player house is a player's castle that they get to be king of.

 

Warplots are similar, but more guild/group related.  They get customization based on your group, but it's still changeable.  Complete opposite of TESO's throne in Tamrial.  It's there, it's static, it's the same attack again and again and again (and take it from GW2 players who have spent time in Eternal Battlegrounds throwing faces against Stonemist Castle....it becomes repetitive after a while).  Customization = freshness = more enjoyable longer (think how TF2 kept so long thanks to community maps, server rulesets, and weapons).

 

  Ryowulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 675

1/08/14 2:31:13 PM#30

Eso locks you into a build by way of its energy system.  If you start the game as a mage and level it as a mage (putting your points into mana) you can't just decide to be a stealth thief (lack of stamina).  You could build a stealth mage, but you won't be able to decide to become a full mage later, since you have less mana which is going to make you weaker than a full mana mage.

You also can't explore the whole world without making alts (minus that level cap fake faction land crap).

Not saying that's bad, but its not a free as Rob makes out.

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4742

1/08/14 2:35:58 PM#31
Originally posted by Derros
Originally posted by ste2000

Although can they make a game good enough to warrent one, where there are so many, many F2P alternatives?

 

 EvE and WoW both came to prominance during a time where p2p was the only option.  I believe both continue to survive well because of how much time investment people have in these games, making it difficult to break away, not to mention that they are the most populated within their subgenre (themepark and sandbox)

Not a good analogy.

EQ, EQ2, AoC, LoTRO, Rift just to mention games with a solid veteran player base that went F2P years after their release.

Let's not even talk about games that went from Sub to F2P in less than 6 monyhs like SWTOR or TSW.

The fact is that only good games can command a subscription, the time you invest in a game is a marginal factor to the decision of quitting the game.

It's all about meeting player expectations, and if you want players to pay for a Sub, you need to meet their expectations, not doing as you please without listening to your customers concern.

 

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 4339

RIP City of Heroes!

1/08/14 2:35:59 PM#32
Originally posted by arieste

I'm curious if the writers of this know something more than the rest of us about "real exploration" in WS.  I've read all I can find about the explorer path and I've not found anything to indicate whether this "real exploration" is actually dynamic or just a matter of "you must get to coordinates x & y and click on the same item as the 500000 explorers".  

Exploration is only fun if i don't follow my exploration quest to a hidden faraway cave only to find 10 other explorers already there (on exect same quest to find the exact same thing) saying "here, click this". 

 
 

Your point on exploration and 10 other players is dead on for me.   I don't like it to be another part of the xp treadmill and rather a chance to see things for myself.  Game rewards are not needed for this.

http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html

  WikileaksEU

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/13
Posts: 109

1/08/14 2:49:55 PM#33

I'm pretty sure Wildstar will look like an updated SWTOR/WoW. I'm pretty sure GW2 has more to offer and i'll keep playing that. Though! ESO doesn't look much the same and the combat is Elder Scrollish, the lore, the questsystem and big scale faction war. This will be my second mmorpg if they really do deliver. I will play it this weekend, so we'll see. 

However i do think Wildstar will get a lot of SWTOR/WoW/Aion players. It seems like they are cousins and Wilstar is their younger brother, new and fresh and updated.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/08/14 4:53:36 PM#34
Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by Derros
Originally posted by ste2000

Although can they make a game good enough to warrent one, where there are so many, many F2P alternatives?

 

 EvE and WoW both came to prominance during a time where p2p was the only option.  I believe both continue to survive well because of how much time investment people have in these games, making it difficult to break away, not to mention that they are the most populated within their subgenre (themepark and sandbox)

Not a good analogy.

EQ, EQ2, AoC, LoTRO, Rift just to mention games with a solid veteran player base that went F2P years after their release.

Let's not even talk about games that went from Sub to F2P in less than 6 monyhs like SWTOR or TSW.

The fact is that only good games can command a subscription, the time you invest in a game is a marginal factor to the decision of quitting the game.

It's all about meeting player expectations, and if you want players to pay for a Sub, you need to meet their expectations, not doing as you please without listening to your customers concern.

It's not about whether games are "good" enough.  If a player honestly thinks a game is bad, he won't play even if it's free.  It's about quantity of content, not quality of content.  If the kind of player who is theoretically willing to sub continues to do so, it's because he thinks there is enough to do to justify fifteen dollars a month.  If he doesn't continue to do so, it is generally because he has either "finished" all of the content that interested him, or decided that what is left is not worth a flat $15 fee.  The primary reason for TOR and TSW going freemium so quickly is because both had limited endgame offerings relative to older, more established games, and neither take particularly long to "finish" the content with a single character.

Now if every single person who played TOR had actually bought into the idea of playing every class story to completion as an alternative to endgame with a single character, it would probably have gone a lot longer as a sub only game.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8252

1/08/14 4:56:53 PM#35

If you want something somewhat new, with new mechanics, play ESO. If you want WoW with action combat play WS. 

 

I said long ago that companies should think about lower sub fees. That would make more room for all of them. It's almost like they have a trust to not charge less than 15$

http://www.twitch.tv/sunshineNB
J.O.B. Daggerfalls BEST Gank Crew

  ElRenmazuo

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4451

1/08/14 5:04:54 PM#36
Originally posted by GlacianNex

This hardly read as debate of comparison between two games. It was one person calling out what he thinks about one game and the other person defending it without pointing out flaws of the other game.

The whole "Telegraphs end up taking you out of the game. I’m no longer engaged with the combatant I’m engaged with the UI."  in comparison to ESO because in ESO you are playing UI as well so it is not really a point of comparison. 

Chris do yourself a favor and learn to attack the opposite points of view while answering the question or get don't participate in these type of debates. 

Thats only true if you make it to be true because I had my UI hidden all the time and played it fine as if it was skyrim.  The only thing that was showing were things like health/stamina/magicka and compass. 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7928

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

1/08/14 5:06:59 PM#37
Originally posted by arieste

I'm curious if the writers of this know something more than the rest of us about "real exploration" in WS.  I've read all I can find about the explorer path and I've not found anything to indicate whether this "real exploration" is actually dynamic or just a matter of "you must get to coordinates x & y and click on the same item as the 500000 explorers".  

Exploration is only fun if i don't follow my exploration quest to a hidden faraway cave only to find 10 other explorers already there (on exect same quest to find the exact same thing) saying "here, click this". 

 
 

Exactly and that is what developers do,they send you directly there with flashy sparkles and/or yellow markers on the map and then pretend you have just "DISCOVERED",congratulations .../clap ../clap.

Personally i feel this is suppose to be a ROLE playing game,you should be taking in all aspects of the game,not just a follow the markers or the paths around.

One day i might be in the mood to just wander around a bit and explore the land,but wait the game police say i have to enter into a different game mode lol.

It is far too early to discuss weather either game should be sub or not,but i do know this,non sub fee means misleading costs. 

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  reeereee

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 992

1/08/14 5:13:23 PM#38
Originally posted by JJ82

If my choices are

A WoW clone that is at least attempting to innovate combat or a WoW/DoaC clone that isn't innovating anything (which is why not a single innovating thing about it has been talked about)......

I will go with a F2P game that isn't innovating, or one that is but will only last a few months because I have done the above two choices far too many times over the last 13 years. I don't want more of the same just in a new game, sure as hell wont pay for it ever again. EVER.

While I love Wildstar's combat... but... if copying Tera's combat and adding telegraphs to it is what we're calling innovation now then the industry is in a sadder place than I had imagined.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/08/14 5:20:00 PM#39
Originally posted by reeereee
 

While I love Wildstar's combat... but... if copying Tera's combat and adding telegraphs to it is what we're calling innovation now then the industry is in a sadder place than I had imagined.

I want to know when whether something is "innovating" became such a popular standard to judge by.  Shouldn't whether or not something is fun be more important than whether it is new?  Obviously, if something was both innovative and fun that would be great, but if you end up having to pick between fun and familiar or new and boring (or painful) I would think fun would end up more successful.

That being said, I think both games (if delivered as promised) include some very innovative features.  It would be nice if people stopped equating "not innovating in the areas I personally care about" with "not innovating."

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  xanthmetis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 135

1/08/14 5:44:24 PM#40

I have been watching  these two games for the longest time.  ESO had been  the winner over Wildstar due to the graphics and setting.  The more I have learned about the two games  the more I know I wont play ESO and would try Wildstar.

 

ESO: must only use key binds (i like my mouse and one or two key binds), i like my arenas/bg and eso wont have them, all areas cant be explored until unlocked and wont see other faction (weird), first person perspective as  I know its an option but just gives me a headache.  I get bored with keep sieging and camp take over wvw type things quickly.  not a fan of the zerg.

I do like the classes and armor but I cant get over the above negatives.

Wildstar: Developed PVE that is challenging, arenas/bgs, ow pvp with guild owned bases!!!!, combat systems sound like a lot of fun, housing.

I do wish wildstar had more classes entirely to few even with each class being two different specs.  This design is still extremely limiting in the options.

 

I may try wildstar, but wont even look at ESO :(

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