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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Hot Topic: Black People in Fantasy theme games or lack there of...

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230 posts found
  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2501

1/06/14 6:24:43 PM#61
This topic is completely stupid and over the top. If you think there aren't enough black characters in these games make one yourself. They give you the option to do so.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2192

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

1/06/14 6:28:31 PM#62

I played an Erudite in EQ, made my halfling in EQ2 black, and I have one of the few black humans in WoW. And I am quite diverse racially in real life - my ancestors come from all different parts of the British Isles ; )

Just some other things I've noticed on this topic:

The Erudites in EQ are all black, and a pretty popular race.

For some odd reason, they turned the Erudites into things that look like Aliens from outer space in EQ2.

Vanguard has 3 different human races, one asian, one white, one black. I always felt sorry for the Native Americans.

I've had several guild mates who were latino - they seem to have the least choices of all.

Most games I know have the option to make your character black, which then puts the racism into the hands of the players - is it that black players aren't making black characters? Is it that black players are few and far between? Or is it that white players rarely desire to play black characters? 

 

  User Deleted
1/06/14 6:31:47 PM#63

This isn't a "Hot Topic", you're just trying to make it one.

 

EDIT1: Spelling

EDIT2: They are in Warhammer, don't twist facts to suit your needs.

  Solar_Prophet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 577

1/06/14 6:47:21 PM#64

If a person / group based on a particular race or ethnicity doesn't fit with the fantasy world being created, then the creator should be under no obligation to include them. Personally I find it far more offensive to shoehorn them into an inappropriate setting for the sake of political correctness (to 'placate the masses', as it were) than to exclude them because they simply don't 'work' with the setting.

As for people complaining about a black person in Lake Town, whining that Tolkien 'never mentioned Haradrim traders, blah blah blah', I really don't care. Tolkien fans throw a screaming fit if the hue of a character's pants is off by two shades. They're the most anal retentive fanbase in existence, and quite honestly their antics are often so cartoonish, their interpretation of the lore so literal, that I can't take them with any sort of seriousness.

Today's message is brought to you by the Federal Reserve! Printing two million more dollars by the time you finish reading this post!

  Arskaaa

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 641

Your chararacter gains experience and levels up, defining a role playing game.

1/06/14 6:55:31 PM#65

only black char i have is Ratonka or was it Ratonga:P 

 

u guys noticed how many black evil npc there is in WoW? 

Its like;

u are black skin, u are evil.

u are white skin, u are hero.

  Politicaldad

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/11
Posts: 66

1/06/14 7:19:42 PM#66

isn't that what games like GTA and the "Knockout Game" are for ? A place for them to congregate and hone their skills? :)

j/k ... this is a waste of a thread and a discussion.

a place for the 'we are repressed' ... 'we deserve more, with no effort' folks.

You should call the ACLU and have them shut down games that do not have the proper ratios to satisfy the 'hurt and downtroden'

Come to the "dark"side we have cupcakes and watermelon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1271

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

1/06/14 7:33:05 PM#67

Humans are boring.  I want dark elves and not dark humans.  But anyway people are not just black skinned and white skinned.  There is a wide range of colors between and some are even red.  Where's our token Native American, hmmm?  I'm telln you, black skinned people are NOT the minority.  But I DO see a lot of different skin colors in games then again I'm playing Skyrim type games (mmo or otherwise).  

 

Lot of games come from the orient and they forget dark skin exists, lol.

  jdizzle2k13

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/13
Posts: 86

1/06/14 8:41:19 PM#68

I think the developers should put whatever they feel is appropriate for their game into their game.

With that being said, I should hope that a game hoping for more commercial success allows for more diverse physical features to choose from in character creation (not just in skin tone but bone structure, lip/eye size, body type, etc.) than most games offer.



  jdizzle2k13

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/13
Posts: 86

1/06/14 8:44:04 PM#69
It would be interesting to see more black/Hispanic/Asian NPCs but I can't fault devs for not including them in a large amount.  I think GW2 did a good job with character diversity.



  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3319

1/06/14 8:55:31 PM#70

I thought WoW humans could be dark skinned, maybe not "african", but something other than Anglo. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

EQ Erudites could be nothing other than dark skinned. The animal-based races (Vah Shir, Froglok) could be whatever you imagined them to be with enough color options. Wood Elves and Drakkin are far from Anglo-white.

Seems like CoH and Champions Online both featured other-than-Anglo colors.

FFXIV does, I know for sure.

Vindictus does.

They aren't totally absent, just maybe not as prevalent as they should be. Maybe a lot of that has to do with the fact that most High Fantasy-based lore is based on very European or Asian mythology. I can't think of any game that's based on African or Arabian mythology... but then again, I'm not very familiar with those cultures in the first place.

  SirPKsAlot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 224

1/06/14 9:13:33 PM#71
Originally posted by Betaguy
I disagree, every MMO I have played I have made a black human with an afro too I might add. Not sure what MMO's you are referring to.

 

LOL me too, in nearly every MMO I've played I've made a black dude with a fro :D


Currently playing: Eldevin Online as a Deadly Assassin

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7009

1/06/14 9:21:46 PM#72
Originally posted by SirPKsAlot
Originally posted by Betaguy
I disagree, every MMO I have played I have made a black human with an afro too I might add. Not sure what MMO's you are referring to.

 

LOL me too, in nearly every MMO I've played I've made a black dude with a fro :D

9/10 times there are black character models, 8/10 times black hairstyles. As far as npcs, yeah sure seems there should be more.

  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

1/06/14 9:57:13 PM#73
Originally posted by Panzerbase
Their are many examples throughout gaming, you simply have chosen not to see them. So yes please keep beating the racist drum, Jesse would be proud. 

Exactly!  I mainly play SOE games and there are options in all of them that I have played to make a black human.  I mean how many black Vikings were there?  You can sure make a character in EQ2 that looks like one.

I guess I just missed all the blacks in Norse and Celtic mythology along with the Greeks and Roman's as well not to mention any Asian mythology out there because the fantasy books referred to got there inspiration from existing mythology.  I guess the writers of old should have foreseen how hate mongering sacks like Jesse and Al would create controversy where none exists so they stay 1) Rich and 2) relevant in the black community just because ignorant white folks are scared to be falsely called racists here in America.

I'm actually surprised liberals haven't freaked out because the Dark Elves are always EVIL, murderous, backstabbing, thieving scum of whatever world they are in.  I would think that would be more racist than not having black humans because one could draw the conclusion that the Drow/Dark Elf is a symbol for blacks in the world today and therefore almost all of them are evil, not to be trusted, and should be killed on sight.

Let's have discussions about the quality or lack there of in our games today and leave the real world issues where they belong, in the REAL world.  I for one play games to get away from the real world, if only for a bit.

  krage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 407

1/06/14 10:02:52 PM#74

Sadly the most media leads are male and white for anything that considers North America in its target demograph because it appeals to most people and has been a standard.

That and I am going to come right out and say that a large part of America is still racist as heck, I had a bit of a culture shock going from a large diverse city into the US Army to mingle with others from less "diverse" places. Since I was tan alot of the more ignorant American soldiers assumed I was Mexican or Puerto Rican by default depending on which coast was closer to them lol (I am not Hispanic at all, I am Irish + Italian + Iranian)

Read this article that has information based on a study about The virtual census: representations of gender, race and age in video games.

"“Male characters are vastly more likely to appear than female characters,” they report, noting that 85.2 percent of characters in their survey are male. If you consider only “primary” characters — that is, those whose actions are controlled by the player — the percentage of males rises to nearly 90 percent.

Whites make up 80 percent of game characters, with blacks representing just under 11 percent and Hispanics just under 3 percent. Whites make up nearly 85 percent of “primary” characters.

...“With regard to race, the findings here nearly mirror Harwood and Anderson’s television data, which found 82.9 percent white, 2.6 percent Latino, 11.4 percent black and 2.6 percent Asian characters.”" Original Source

 

Aside from all that at least some MMOs let you make brown, and black characters and they try to create face types that are for other than white races...still imagine the main Human characters in an MMO being other than white lol. 

  1. Warcraft: Varian Wrynn
  2. Warhammer: Sigmar
  3. Rift: Orphiel Farwind (light skin and hair), Cyril Kalmar (Light skin and dark hair)
  4. GW2: Logan Thackery
  5. Lotro: Human wise there are nothing but good white leads pretty much, but Tolkien was in a racist time and was pretty racist by making all the evil races other than white lol.  
  6. Age of Conan: Conan white Austrian male with a fantastic tan.
  7. ...I am sure there are many more examples of non-Asian MMOs that keep up the White Male Lead (WML) standard.
  8. Props to Warhammer 40k for making the Emperor of Mankind pretty much Turkish, formerly Native American.
 

So yeah there is a lack of Blacks, Hispanics, Asian or those of Southwest Asian (Middle East) descent as far as leads or main characters go. Sure there are sidekicks, background characters, and random characters that are added in for the sake of diversity but the majority of media has white and male as the center of attention...and I can understand why from a "mass" appeal perspective.

Then again the "other" non-white races are sorta mirrored in other races for most fantasy lol...most of which are the "beastial" races...which after writing it makes it seem horrible lol. In the end, I myself have no problem playing white males, females and don't really care about the race/gender too much from a main character as long as they are quality characters. As for my customized characters in MMOs I usually have a mix of skin colors depending on the classes, lore, and overall appeal when combined. 

For funsies, since we opened up the race can of worms, lets also throw in the fact that a very well known character/figure known as Jesus has even been altered to a white male with straight hair over time when he was most likely closer in resemblance to the people of the region with curlier hair and olive skin....just sayin thats the world we live in lol.

  Hokie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 1019

Hey Devs, just so you know. The more you give us to play with, the more we play.

1/06/14 10:14:20 PM#75
Originally posted by MMOExposed

This isnt to offend anybody. This is simply a hot topic discussion, that I believe is worth talking about rather than ignoring this issue as if it doesnt exist.


 

That leads me to the other argument, for IP like Warhammer, which people argue that its based off of Medieval Germany, which goes back to the above explanation that Black People are known to have been in Germany as well during those time periods.

So the idea that Black People shouldnt be in Fantasy genre because of those misinformed ideals, is simply wrong.

 

But despite the above historical references, We still see more modern day MMOs of "Fantasy Theme" being made without the option, or limited option in making Black People as a playable option for humans and the likes.

 

 

Whats your opinion on this? This is a discussion forum on games after all.

 

Simply put you are stretching history quit a bit. And maybe out right twisting the facts to suit your argument.

Im sure there were traders and people from Africa, India, Persia and Arabia and maybe even the Far East who lived in Germany per your Warhammer example (or any other European country for that matter) during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance but they were probably so few in numbers that they were less than 1% of the population.

So its not some racial prejudice that keeps them from showing up in what is considered Middle Ages and more specifically the Arthurian Age which is what most of these fantasy MMO's and games are based on. Its just simple fact that its mostly based of white Northern Europe psudeo-history.

And going back to your example of Warhammer/Germany a quick Google search shows that the top three German cities with considerable Afro-German (black) populations, in this our modern day, at just 3% of the population of Hamburg, 2% the population of Berlin, and 2% the population Frankfurt.

 

And to further extrapolate on your twisted logic the total in this day and age of the black ethnicity of lets say...England is just 3.5%, I could go on, but I think evey one should get the point.

There just wasnt that many people of non-white decent in the Europe that these games are based on. There is no anti-black conspiracy, or anti-Persian, or what not. The truth is even to this day there isnt a very large black presence in Europe and was even less so 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 years ago. And so of course would not show up in the main historical legends (whether fantasy or fact) for these countries, and thus into the games they are based on.

 

Now all that being said, do I think because of the demographic facts that there shouldnt be anyone of African, Persian, Asian, Indian decent in modern games set in European psudeo-history / Arthurian legend? No of course not. All ethnicities should be represented.

And I agree they should do a better job. And some have. Take a look at ESO's character creator video, it has some of the best African and Middle Eastern looking avatars in any game so far (that Ive seen).

 

But please dont try to twist the facts into some kind of historical conspiracy.

 

 

"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  Terranah

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3612

1/06/14 10:21:56 PM#76

Why would blacks figure predominantly as the main characters though.  There is a reason they are called 'minorities'.  If they were the predominant race, it would make sense that main characters would be black, but they're not.

 

Blacks are also probably not the predominant creators, producers, distributors or financiers within the gaming industry.  Most that I am thinking of off the top of my head are white and some are Asian.  So again, it's not surprising Blacks are under represented.

 

People make a big deal if a white guy puts on make up to look black, even if it's for drama class.  Seems like a white guy playing a black character could also be racist if you want to inject that kind of irrational sensitivity into the discussion.

 

Personally, I'm multiracial.  I see both sides.  Whites make games with white protagonists.  Asians make games with Asian protagonists.  Maybe Blacks should start making games with Black protagonists and stop expecting everyone else to do it for them. 

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1053

1/06/14 10:24:00 PM#77
Originally posted by sacredfool

Just to point out, Moors were an arabic nation and while some of them had darker skin tones most of them had the same skin tone as the Mediterranean region Europeans they lived next to.

To go technical, the Moors were predominately Berbers from North Africa.  But several of the invading waves of Moors fielded significantly large groups of Sub Saharan African troops.   

 

Sicily and Naples also had significant time under North African rule. 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  galphar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 59

1/06/14 10:34:01 PM#78
This is just me, but I don't go to movies/read comics/play online games and worry about how many of a certain "minority" are in it. I do those things to get away from all the politically correctness that has taken over the USA. And before you ask, yes I'm a white Male which in this day and age seams to be the worst thing you can be. The best would be a black pregnant lesbian. But I degress, It doesn't matter to me how many of what race are in something as long as the story is good and I have a good time. I don't even notice race/gender any more. Hell, when I saw Empire Strikes Back(in 1980), it didn't matter to me that Lando was black, just that he was an interesting character in the film.

  Khalathwyr

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1/06/14 10:38:48 PM#79

If I can't make a character that looks somewhat like me, I don't play the game or give the company money.

 

That said, I don't carry a banner saying that a company has to offer such human color range in their game. It's their game. If they don't realize way more people of color are pouring into MMO gaming every year, that's their loss. It's a basic fact that humans are the most played race in MMOs. It's also basic psychology that the majority of folks making a "character" in a game want that character to reflect themselves for the most part, but with "better looking" body upgrades. Like photo shopping a picture of themselves.

 

Unfortunately there still is the misconception that there aren't many folks of color playing MMOs. You can see it in some comments in this thread and heavily throughout this site and others. Many of the development teams only feature 1 or maybe 2 black folk, and those folks probably feel they'd get mislabeled if they championed a wider color palette, even if they were only doing it for the sake of more cosmetic options (something you see gamers clamor for all the freaking time).

 

So, again, no, I don't expect a game to include my tone on their color palette, and if it's a game I'm really interested in and I don't see it I won't hesitate to ask for it in a non pushy manner. Ultimately it's up to the company to define their vision and if they don't see my hue in it, then I move on to the next game.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  thunderC

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/12
Posts: 350

1/06/14 10:41:03 PM#80
My main in GW2 is Black .Probably one of my favorite looking toons in all the games i have played. Looks like Afro Samari , Named him "SoulGlowWatson" 
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