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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » No raiding?

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48 posts found
  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1628

1/04/14 7:31:25 PM#21
Originally posted by Desetes
I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

Not every MMO needs raiding to be successful.

The reason why WOW did so well was purely the horse-carrot raiding addiction every player there developed.

Kudos to Blizzard for that though.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  shalissar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/10
Posts: 189

1/05/14 2:18:01 PM#22
Originally posted by Rampaji

Many people seems whine and even like to whine. Its up to you personally to make a game experience funny. You can even play MONOPOLY many times and its still fun when you play, If you are having fun with does you play with. :)

Pvp endgame i dont care that much about pvp. But if people are having fun, then have fun with. :)

Im going to play with many real life friends, explore the game and all the content it brings up. And maybe we going to join a raid guild going to explore the "raids areas and have fun with that".

 

Help Yourself to get a good solid fun and laughs playing. then you might even get invited to join a guild or be on others friendlist ;)

 

Happy Hakuna

 

Plus one, share the love and make your own fun!!!

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8741

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

1/05/14 2:27:27 PM#23
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Desetes
I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

Not every MMO needs raiding to be successful.

The reason why WOW did so well was purely the horse-carrot raiding addiction every player there developed.

Kudos to Blizzard for that though.

But every MMO is about progression...  You call it horse carrot... But if its not there and progression stops at max level..  or if there is just  not enough progression, then people will stop playing...

 

there is many kinds of progression

- level progression

- story progression

- area progression

- dungeon progression

- raid progression

- gear progression

- title and rank progression

- archievement progression

- character development progression ( AA systems for example )

- colllections... 

- world progression  

- battle ground progression

 

And there are many more possible forms of progression...  Make a game in which people want to advance and reach the next step, and you have a succesfull MMO....   This is where GW2 failed, as for the majorrity of players there was simply not enough reason to keep progressing...

 

if you add enough interesting ways of progression, and make sure progression you knew from  1 to 50 does not stop at max level endgame, then you have a winner....

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  artemisentr4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1442

1/05/14 6:22:03 PM#24
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Desetes
I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

Not every MMO needs raiding to be successful.

The reason why WOW did so well was purely the horse-carrot raiding addiction every player there developed.

Kudos to Blizzard for that though.

But every MMO is about progression...  You call it horse carrot... But if its not there and progression stops at max level..  or if there is just  not enough progression, then people will stop playing...

 

there is many kinds of progression

- level progression

- story progression

- area progression

- dungeon progression

- raid progression

- gear progression

- title and rank progression

- archievement progression

- character development progression ( AA systems for example )

- colllections... 

- world progression  

- battle ground progression

 

And there are many more possible forms of progression...  Make a game in which people want to advance and reach the next step, and you have a succesfull MMO....   This is where GW2 failed, as for the majorrity of players there was simply not enough reason to keep progressing...

 

if you add enough interesting ways of progression, and make sure progression you knew from  1 to 50 does not stop at max level endgame, then you have a winner....

I agree, it is progression that makes players want to  continue. WoW used psychologists to work on addiction in game play. Obviously it worked. Chain quests that make you want to continue. Low drop rates that make you grind until you get that carrot. Rep grind, gear grind, weapon level grind and so on. Many of the new MMO's wanted to get away from the "grind", but it takes away the addiction of having to finish a quest, find an item, get that piece of gear and so on.

 

ESO looks to at least have the skill chase right. Only  30% of skills gained by level 50. Adding in a lot of skills with updates and new guilds. Weapon, armor and skill leveling with morphing of skills. Being able to pick up a weapon or put on armor any time and begin to skill up by use changing you play. Or changing builds based on who you may be PvPing against as in the Undead vs Fighter guild skills.

 

And yes, some kind of raiding as in Adventure zones. But as only one option for gearing up with end game gear. Not the only option. There will still be Master dungeons, 50+/50++, Crafting and PvP for end game gear.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Mackaveli44

Novice Member

Joined: 7/26/08
Posts: 129

1/05/14 7:16:17 PM#25

I'm one of those who are excited for it.  On paper, the mass amount of dungeons, contested dungeons, Adventure zones and the PvP all have me excited and seem like a lot of content off the bat.  Now I do have my concerns.  After playing Oblivion/Skyrim, I noticed there's a lack of monsters in the world to fight with a lot of emphasis on questing to obtain your skill points/levels.   Now, does this take place in ESO? Not sure but from what Ive heard about the first starter zone, it seems that way.  But again, that was a starter zone.  Will it open up past the starter zone?  I sure as hell hope so and I know some friends who are looking into it hope so as well.  Now, don't get me wrong, it is an Elder Scrolls game which means itll be story driven but there should be different ways of progressing your character other then just questing/doing the story and I hope they open it up that way.

In my opinion, they have to have a mix of content to please the masses.  What I mean by that is, content for those people who love to quest(which I can be but like a change of pace) for xp/gear and since its an Elder Scrolls game, It WILL have a ton of quest content, and XP for those who like to go out and kill stuff in the world(I also love doing this as well).  Again, from what I've heard about the first starter zone, it was primarily questing which is a little disheartening and worrisome.  I sure hope the contested dungeons open up the possibility for group xp grind groups for those who enjoy to team up with friends/guildies and hunt mobs for xp/skill points.  Adventure zones - What is the significance of those?  Xp? Loot? raids? all 3? Im excited to see what they are and how they will play a role in the content we get.  Will they progress in difficulty the further in you explore in each zone? Will there be static mob camps to hunt mobs? Will there be named monsters to go after for loot? So many questions regarding those zones.

Afterall, it is an MMO which means theyre going to need a carrot at the end of the stick driving people to continue playing and so with that said, that means itll more then likely be gear based.  As well as realm pride based through the Cyrodill PvP.  Everybody loves loot else we all wouldnt be playing these kind of games.  Is gear going to have stats on them that affect our character how do they in other games?  As in + to str, or dex, etc.  Now I understand the stat system in the game is different relying on Magicka, Stamina, and Health but what other stats are there going to be and will they appear on gear? Is more difficult content, I.e expert/heroic/group content going to need a tank?(I love that roll of playing tanks) I know gear will have its benefits, example; Heavy armor having + HP/defensive, leather having evasion, cloth having + to mana regen etc. But will they also have stats on them? 

In a nutshell;

Will there be areas to hunt mobs for xp or will it be forced questing to gain levels/skill points/gear? (I hope not, FFXIV took the forced route and myself and my buddies left quickly because you had no incentive to go out and hunt the wild other then for the Fates)

Will there be named monsters in the world to go after for loot?

WIll the contested dungeons/Instances/Adventure zones be ways to obtain xp/skill points/loot?

How open are the zones/How big are they? Im not expecting skyrim big but seeing as how there will be zonelines, will each zone be large and open or funneled and linear?

Im sure Ill have more questions but cant think of them right now off the top of my head.  A lot of these are questions thatll dictate whether my buddies play or not.  More so for them, and not me.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

1/06/14 4:50:00 AM#26

I think the progression model is on the face of it quite robust.

The potential for various skill trees from class, race, NPC guild and questlines; multiple unlocked skill setups (further varied by in-skill specialisation options) and multiple gear stat boost setups means working towards a character theme and furnishing that theme with the desired abilities and optimisations will take, potentially, a great deal of time to achieve.

When this apparent fact is placed alongside the multiple paths with which one can achieve them - solo and group quest and exploration based world, open and closed dungeon PVE, adventure zone 'raid-size' PVE, and of course the central PVP, not to mention crafting et al, the variations on how you get there are not merely additive, they multiply.

This is a good thing - one of the greatest complaints about '3 month' games is that they allow speedy advancement to 'end-game' and top skill and gear levels are acheivable too quickly. The locusts always find the line of least resistance and spam it until they get bored.

I think Zenimax have been fully cognisant of this and have claimed to have built a game which has a non-linear, networked advancement model, hopefully sidestepping this problem entirely.

Of course, their claims that they have such a model could end up being smoke and mirrors. But if it isn't, I can actually see the kinds of players who love playing alts actually sticking with one character for much longer, building alternative skill and gear setups on one toon - 'alting' one character if you will - because as presented to us thusfar, this is the first time it has been meaningfully possible.

If this is indeed the case, I will be mightily impressed, and my personal habit of sticking with one character will be far more interesting and engaging for far, far longer than even a locust could complain about.

  bantapoo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/10
Posts: 4

1/06/14 5:39:31 AM#27

It seems raids are of the way, making the pvp in Cyrodil the true end game.

My days of hardcore raiding are long gone, and I'm happy a major MMO doesn't propose that for a change.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

1/06/14 11:55:30 AM#28
Originally posted by Desetes
I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

What percentage of wow's population have they said are hardcore raiders?  5-10%?   Oh yes, it definitely is because of the raiding people have stayed.

  laokoko

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1936

1/06/14 1:39:38 PM#29

I remember when GW2 was released, there was 100 people yelling at me telling me GW2 have raids (they like to call dynamic event and world boss raid).

So regardless of what people say here or like to use of terminology.  Ya TESO may have raid "or adventure zone or whatever you like to call them".  They probably were not the wow type raid you are expecting.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4035

1/06/14 1:54:07 PM#30
I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding 
  Mackaveli44

Novice Member

Joined: 7/26/08
Posts: 129

1/06/14 2:56:09 PM#31
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I think the progression model is on the face of it quite robust.

The potential for various skill trees from class, race, NPC guild and questlines; multiple unlocked skill setups (further varied by in-skill specialisation options) and multiple gear stat boost setups means working towards a character theme and furnishing that theme with the desired abilities and optimisations will take, potentially, a great deal of time to achieve.

When this apparent fact is placed alongside the multiple paths with which one can achieve them - solo and group quest and exploration based world, open and closed dungeon PVE, adventure zone 'raid-size' PVE, and of course the central PVP, not to mention crafting et al, the variations on how you get there are not merely additive, they multiply.

This is a good thing - one of the greatest complaints about '3 month' games is that they allow speedy advancement to 'end-game' and top skill and gear levels are acheivable too quickly. The locusts always find the line of least resistance and spam it until they get bored.

I think Zenimax have been fully cognisant of this and have claimed to have built a game which has a non-linear, networked advancement model, hopefully sidestepping this problem entirely.

Of course, their claims that they have such a model could end up being smoke and mirrors. But if it isn't, I can actually see the kinds of players who love playing alts actually sticking with one character for much longer, building alternative skill and gear setups on one toon - 'alting' one character if you will - because as presented to us thusfar, this is the first time it has been meaningfully possible.

If this is indeed the case, I will be mightily impressed, and my personal habit of sticking with one character will be far more interesting and engaging for far, far longer than even a locust could complain about.

Im with you on this.  If they can truly pull this off and it is in fact what they have in-game then Ill probably be around for a long time and will be impressed as well.  With that said, what kind of stats can we expect on gear?  I still am uninformed on what kind of stats will be on gear aside from the passives that come with wearing specific armor types i.e cloth = mana regen, plate = hp, etc, etc. 

1 thin that does worry me and I hope is taken care of is the sever lack of monsters in the worlds of Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind.  Is that going to translate over to ESO?  Why I ask this is because Im wondering if theyre going to force us to quest to obtain levels/skill points.  Im hoping for a mix of content as in mobs in the world that you could go out and hunt for xp while also having the option to quest.  Certain games force you like FFXIV and I did not enjoy that(besides the FATE hunting)

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6023

1/06/14 6:16:13 PM#32
Originally posted by Iselin
I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding 

I don't mind if the feature concepts are there, but I don't want them implemented that exact same way which is, I think, the point you're making.

I don't mind mass group content. I don't mind instances. I don't mind pretty much any one feature of an mmo. I pretty much don't like that they are continually implemented in a nearly identical fashion. Sometimes I don't even mind that, but mostly I do. If that makes any sense at all.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2852

1/06/14 6:35:52 PM#33
Originally posted by Torvaldr
See I think instanced scripted progression raiding has been the single biggest design plague on the mmo genre period. I believe it's over credited for the success of some games, including WoW. It adversely affects what could otherwise be good pve progression, good pvp progression, and indepth crafting.

 Raiding isn't a plague on the MMO genre. There are just too man under-skilled developers in the gaming industry to think outside the box. They should take pointers from some companies who thought outside of the box with some of their PvP and PvE. Companies like NCsoft with Aion and Mythic with WAR who've fused the raiding experience with PvP. This will allow players to fight for a specific goal. Such as killing a king, emperor, or a warlord NPC while fighting off other players. The only plague on this industry are these lazy designers.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4035

1/06/14 6:46:23 PM#34
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Iselin
I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding 

I don't mind if the feature concepts are there, but I don't want them implemented that exact same way which is, I think, the point you're making.

I don't mind mass group content. I don't mind instances. I don't mind pretty much any one feature of an mmo. I pretty much don't like that they are continually implemented in a nearly identical fashion. Sometimes I don't even mind that, but mostly I do. If that makes any sense at all.

It makes sense to me... and it reminds me of how they're doing their version of "heroic" dungeons. It's the same thing in that there are heroic dungeons just like in Rift, WOW, etc,. but they're implementing them by opening up new areas that weren't part of the non-heroic version.

 

They've also mentioned several times that part of their future content plans is to add a large PvP dungeon similar to the DAoC Darkness Falls dungeon... that was one of the best features of DAoC. Clone away!

 

  Mackaveli44

Novice Member

Joined: 7/26/08
Posts: 129

1/06/14 7:18:46 PM#35
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Iselin
I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding 

I don't mind if the feature concepts are there, but I don't want them implemented that exact same way which is, I think, the point you're making.

I don't mind mass group content. I don't mind instances. I don't mind pretty much any one feature of an mmo. I pretty much don't like that they are continually implemented in a nearly identical fashion. Sometimes I don't even mind that, but mostly I do. If that makes any sense at all.

It makes sense to me... and it reminds me of how they're doing their version of "heroic" dungeons. It's the same thing in that there are heroic dungeons just like in Rift, WOW, etc,. but they're implementing them by opening up new areas that weren't part of the non-heroic version.

 

They've also mentioned several times that part of their future content plans is to add a large PvP dungeon similar to the DAoC Darkness Falls dungeon... that was one of the best features of DAoC. Clone away!

 

Darkness falls was one of, if not the single greatest dungeon in history of these MMO's.  Solo, group, and raid content or PvP all in 1 massive dungeon that got progressively more difficult the further down you went.  I miss those days of sneaking around on my infiltrator to the other realms side.  Was a challenge but so thrilling and so fun.  Its one of the big reasons why Im excited for ESO is the Darkness Falls style dungeon they said theyre making and I feel they will do it right seeing how they have some DAoC devs on the team.

  slygamer1979

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/11
Posts: 81

3/24/14 10:31:30 PM#36
to some raiding may not be end game like it used to be but on the other hand i think the same amount of people don't think PvP is really end game either.  I myself never thought PvP was real end game material so as it stands i'm not really sure i'll get this game but i'm sure i'm not alone for one reason or another. 

<img alt="Raptr Gamercard" src="http://raptr.com/badge/slygamer1979/fs_overall.png" style="border:none;">

  Skeeter50

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 155

3/24/14 10:37:05 PM#37
12 man group content called "Trials".
  Stiler

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

3/25/14 12:07:07 AM#38
Originally posted by Desetes
I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

Most players do NOT raid, only a minority of players actually raid.

 

You would be surprised at how many players just play WoW to level up and play solo/explore, make alts and do it again.

 

Raiding has never been the "mainstream" thing to do, but for some reason so many MMO's have got it in their head that end game = raiding, when most players actually do not like nor want to do it.

  PAL-18

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 740

3/25/14 12:24:09 AM#39
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Desetes
I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

What percentage of wow's population have they said are hardcore raiders?  5-10%?   Oh yes, it definitely is because of the raiding people have stayed.

What percentage of athletes have ever won olympic gold medal?

It does not mean that if they cant never make it that they are not trying to achieve their goals.

Its perfect endgame scenario since most of the people cant even touch it but they do want to.

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  karat76

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 1011

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

3/25/14 12:47:10 AM#40
I am glad the game does not seem focused on the end game raid tread mill. Raiding and the mind set that infects many of those who raid is one of the worst things to ever plague any mmo community. It is a cancer to gaming  while botters and gold farmers are stds.
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