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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Neverwinter: Is Neverwinter Really an MMO?

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76 posts found
  madnessman13

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/09
Posts: 89

drop pants not bombs

1/03/14 4:05:03 PM#21
These are my thoughts exactly. As I played through the game I felt like I was going from one section to another and nothing was open world. It has MMO aspects but is not a fully fledged MMORPG

madnessman

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5819

1/03/14 4:06:28 PM#22
Originally posted by GameByNight
Originally posted by Sajman01
It's no less an MMO than GW2. 

Can you elaborate on this? I don't see GW2's world being so much of a lobby. 

Do you understand what a lobby is? GW1 and DDO are lobby games. A lobby game is where players can congregate in town and go out to private instances in the game world. None of the overland content is privately instanced. None of the dungeon content is any more instanced than WoW, Rift, EQ2, LotRO, or any other dungeon instanced game we call MMOs. Seriously, as an MMO column write I would expect you to have a clearer understanding of this.

Massively, in the historic sense, has always meant a lot of players online at once over the internet. This was opposed to players congregating at another's house for a LAN party, and later through the internet with a small (limited) number of players.

I'm not seeing the point to your question. What if it's not an mmo? What if GW2 isnt' an MMO? What if FFXIV isn't an MMO? What if TESO isn't going to be an mmo? Or Star Citizen? What if only UO was an mmo? Do arbitrary designations mean anything in the context? Let's say we all agreed one way or the other on labels, what would that even mean?

Curse you AquaScum!

  Chaserz

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/12
Posts: 57

1/03/14 4:25:11 PM#23
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
I see other people running around in the world minding their own business, so yes its an mmo.

All running like mazed rats to the exact same locations, exact same quest objectives, and dungeon entrances, then onto the next corral only with difference decor. 

 
  Sandric

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/06/03
Posts: 102

1/03/14 4:30:51 PM#24
Personally I have always had huge issues with the rise of the instanced game play.  I understand it was used to make the player feel more important and give them their 'own' story along with relieve pc load and server stress but it has always felt contrived.  I enjoyed the games where you were part of the world, not the world a part of you.  UO, Asheron's Call, SWG, heck even TESO (though rather feel their PvP is weak).  Even large parts of GW2 were well done in world stuff.  I have always felt meh when it came to the instance 'story' sections and the only game I particularly enjoyed with instances was LOTRO and that was a combination of rather few forced instances comparatively and the lore.  The problem with NW was that it didn't feel like a persistent world or MMO.  It felt like a lobby.  That combined with limited pack space, early nerfs to my 2 max leveled classes (rogue and cleric) made me dump this early summer.

Major or Current Characters
AC - The Brute lvl 85 macer -HG (retired)
SWG - Lihone Su'alkn Master Ranger/ MCH - Flurry (Retired)
EVE - Sulone - Cruiser Lover (Retired)
LOTRO - Sandric lvl 50 Burg (and others)- Brandywine (Retired)
GW2 - Sandric lvl 80 Thief - Dragonbrand (Retired)
NeverWinter - Sandric lvl 60 Rogue - Dragonshard (Retired)
Others (Lots) (Retired)

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2696

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

1/03/14 5:09:01 PM#25

It's an mmorpg, period. If I meet someone in the city and say, find me at the dungeon entrance. Guess what? He zones out of the city, into the area the dungeon is located, runs there and maybe helps some other players on the way until he finally sees me standing next to the entrance to the dungeon. Like I said, it's a mmorpg.

 

Just because the setting is based around the city of Neverwinter (I mean it is called Neverwinter online, not Abeir-Toril Online), doesn't make it any less of a mmorpg. It's like complaining that they made a mmorpg based on a well know fictional city that has served as the setting for hundreds of books and games and complaining that you can't go to Baldur's Gate.....no wait...you are complaining about that. It just ain't big enough!


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  bamwalla

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/21/04
Posts: 60

1/03/14 5:11:25 PM#26
the game is not Massively Multi-player.  Perhaps a SGORPG (small group online role playing game)... Or an ITPRPG (instanced theme park rpg)
  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6749

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

1/03/14 5:22:40 PM#27
Originally posted by Dauzqul

The definition of MMO has completely changed.

MMOs used to be MASSIVE. There is nothing "massive" about instanced 5v5 PvP etc.

 

It's like playing a game like Quake or Unreal Tournament, where you can chat with people while you search for CTF or TDM on the server browser. These new "MMOs" are nothing more than a glorified 3D version of the archaic server browser. However, instead of clicking on a text link via Unreal Tournament to connect, you virtually walk to a glowing door and click on it (SWTOR etc).

 
 
 

I agree,MOST of the gaming terminology is loosely bantered around.A lot of the game is not instanced but the challenging meaningful parts are ALL instances,makes that part of the game,no more than a CO-op.

I still play UT99 and using that game as an example,it is really sad that i interact with usually around 4-6 players in a game,as many as what people do in an instance in a MMO such as this.

I would also say that i chat with people MORE in UT99 than i do in MMO's.it really is a sad indication of the MMO genre.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6749

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

1/03/14 5:34:38 PM#28
Originally posted by DamonVile

LoL is getting called an mmo, it doesn't even have a world. The term mmo doesn't imply a world at all. Massively multiplayer online means built for lots of people playing online doesn't it ? Everything else is really what the reader applies to it.

If you're going to start calling the worlds massive.... are they ? I can run across the world of most games in about 20 minutes. I can still see my house after 20 minutes of running in real life.....wouldn't really consider that a massive distance.

What they put at the end of mmo I think should say more about the game type than mmo does. ARPG, RPG, FPS, TPS ( third ) etc all give a better indication of what the game is. Maybe we just need a better name like IRPG instanced role playing game.

Well you won't see your house unless it is open fields,we EXPECT assets in a game.Also if you run for 20 minutes in every direction that is more like 9 square miles,that would be considered quite massive.Ever have a Paintball game with 20 players,imagine playing over 9 Sq miles,it would get real boring because of the size.

MOST large sports games ,example Football/Baseball play in a field of far less proportions.Also when saying run across a game world,those zones are linked for faster access,if you actually had to run across them all,it would take you more than an hour.It took me exactly 20 minutes to run the fastest route between two cities in FXIV,that is not even close to running across the entire game.

MMO is not simply built for lots of players online,it means in the SAME place at the SAME time.You wouldn't say a movie theater is built for massive amounts of people IF you go to every theater in the owners stable,it eludes to that ONE theater.Same as a football stadium,if it holds a massive audience of 100k,that means in that SAME stadium,where everyone can basically see and interact with each other without leaving the stadium for another  venue or place.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  sbrite10

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 73

1/03/14 8:37:26 PM#29
Originally posted by djazzy
Originally posted by Sajman01
It's no less an MMO than GW2. 

How so?

GW2 is not a lobby game.

 

Lobby Implies no Avatars representing your character.So I think its no less an MMO than GW2.As stated earlier MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online correct?Neverwinter is all of that.Its a silly argument anyway.If you enjoy it why is it even a question?If you don't why do you care?

 

 
  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4820

1/03/14 8:56:10 PM#30
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by DamonVile

LoL is getting called an mmo, it doesn't even have a world. The term mmo doesn't imply a world at all. Massively multiplayer online means built for lots of people playing online doesn't it ? Everything else is really what the reader applies to it.

If you're going to start calling the worlds massive.... are they ? I can run across the world of most games in about 20 minutes. I can still see my house after 20 minutes of running in real life.....wouldn't really consider that a massive distance.

What they put at the end of mmo I think should say more about the game type than mmo does. ARPG, RPG, FPS, TPS ( third ) etc all give a better indication of what the game is. Maybe we just need a better name like IRPG instanced role playing game.

Well you won't see your house unless it is open fields,we EXPECT assets in a game.Also if you run for 20 minutes in every direction that is more like 9 square miles,that would be considered quite massive.Ever have a Paintball game with 20 players,imagine playing over 9 Sq miles,it would get real boring because of the size.

MOST large sports games ,example Football/Baseball play in a field of far less proportions.Also when saying run across a game world,those zones are linked for faster access,if you actually had to run across them all,it would take you more than an hour.It took me exactly 20 minutes to run the fastest route between two cities in FXIV,that is not even close to running across the entire game.

MMO is not simply built for lots of players online,it means in the SAME place at the SAME time.You wouldn't say a movie theater is built for massive amounts of people IF you go to every theater in the owners stable,it eludes to that ONE theater.Same as a football stadium,if it holds a massive audience of 100k,that means in that SAME stadium,where everyone can basically see and interact with each other without leaving the stadium for another  venue or place.

20 minutes, an hour... 10 hours... you've missed the point. Massive worlds are based on one persons opinion. How long would it take you to run around the earth ? These game worlds are tinny compaired to it so....why are we calling them massive virtual worlds then ? 

MMOs have never been built like that. Most have multiple servers which forces them apart All of them crash if too many people go to the same place at the same time. Even eve only works because people spread out and don't all interact with each other in the same place.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1109

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

1/03/14 9:06:14 PM#31
Is Neverwinter Massive? Yes.  Is it Multiplayer? Yes.  Is it Online? Yes.  Then its an MMO by straight definition.  Its just not an MMO*RPG* which is somewhat a sub genre.  More MMOs are coming out than MMORPGs.  It was the MMORPGs that had huge, massive, virtual worlds. There is either no market or no demand because there is definitely interest.

  severius

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1527

1/03/14 9:37:49 PM#32
Originally posted by Vasel
The only thing resembling a MMO is the fact you have  some levels and there are quests. ITs a linear theme park designed to empty your pockets.

And that's different from any other mmo out there how?  Of course there are exceptions but think about it.  If you play any mmo that launches (not f2p) you are looking at around $250 for the first year.  $180 every year after that with it bumping up to $210/$220 on expansion years.  200 bones a year for something that doesn't exist in reality except by the whim of a development team/corporation keeping the lights on?  This of course doesn't count if you go in for the cash shops that exist in subscription mmos whereby you get to pay a corporation for virtual items that they just click a button to create instantaneously.  At least when you bought gold there were teams of chinese farmers working the virtual fields to get that money to sell you, these corporations charge you double the "black" market and they don't even have real labor being expended in the selling of it to you.  Hell with wonderful companies like Blizzard out there you get cash shops in single player games too.  Yay!

 

Personally I play Neverwinter whenever I have an itch to scratch, provides me a couple of hours of entertainment and then I am good for a week or three lol.  Don't remember ever paying anything to play it.... surely hasn't emptied my pockets, but thats just my experience :)

 


  severius

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1527

1/03/14 9:45:35 PM#33
Originally posted by SBFord

The Tourist is back and ready to roll in 2014. In this latest column, we visit Neverwinter and offer a few thoughts about its status as an MMO. Read on before heading to the comments to chat.

I sent out a tweet recently asking if Neverwinter's deserved to be included in this year's Game of the Year talks. The crux of the matter is simply this, with so few options, could be be ascribing more praise to the game than it perhaps deserves? Few players will deny that Neverwinter had an certain allure surrounding its launch. More than that, the game's first early experiences teeter on the edge of wonderousness.

Read more of Chris Coke's The Tourist: Is Neverwinter Really an MMO?

 

As to whether its an MMO?  Sure seems feels and looks like an mmo to me.  What persistence is there in ANY mmo out there?  How many times have you killed boss mob alpha of any raid in any mmo out there?  Show me the MMO out there with the boss mobs that once killed never ever spawn again.  How many times have you drudged through the same dungeon, doing the exact same dance, using this ability at this time (everytime) stand here to avoid this attack (everytime) etc etc etc.  And you mention persistence as if that was something that actually mattered as to whether a game were an MMO or not?  If so then the only two MMOs ever were SWG and Eve.
 
As to isolated instances: 1) THANK GOD.  2) PEOPLE SUCK.  And finally:  3) PEOPLE SUCK.
 :D


Seeing other people in town makes a helluva lot more sense than walking into some big baddies lair to see 20 people on their way out 40 people standing around dueling and mooning each other waiting for the big baddie to spawn again.  Or being given that early quest about the village in danger from a plague of wild pigs, spiders, sand fleas, whatever that will be cured by your killing 4 of them.  Which, of course, as you run out to face the vile threat you slam into the back of another player as you watch some 30+ people milling about playing whack a mole waiting for this "plague" to eventually materialize.  Please refer to my opinion on persistence and my list of pros for isolated instance if you wonder why I have a problem with the mentioned scenario.  :)
 
Yes Neverwinter is an MMO as much as anything else out there.  Hell you guys cover Diablo 3 here on MMORPG.com so I do appreciate your asking for clarification as there seems to be some confusion from people trying to make a simple thing far more complicated than it is.  :)


  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 481

1/03/14 10:57:42 PM#34

Neverwinter is garbage.  A major let down.  Yet another insult to D&D - which is seemingly beyond hope due to corporate ownership/handling and the impossibility of anybody doing it up right without hassles and costs.

 

Mediocre game, weak character development, weak just about everything.  Foundry does rock - but it's not enough to make the game worth playing.

 
Flush Neverwinter and hope that other devs see the power of user-created content via foundry like tools.

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 455

As famous as the unknown soldier

1/03/14 11:08:51 PM#35
Originally posted by Sajman01
It's no less an MMO than GW2. 

thats not saying much, at that

 

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  UnitAkira

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/11
Posts: 15

1/03/14 11:32:56 PM#36
Originally posted by IDontThinkSoNo

People spamming gold farming in chat.

Forced group content.

Broken English players.

Nerd raging guilds that require VoIP.

Yep, MMO.

Broken english players ? nice how about you try play a game where its not your mother tongue been spoken ,at least they make an effort to speak .. sounds like you are the leader of one of these nerd raging guilds and one of those who go after the typos people make in chat too .. but that a side yeah it has the annoying mmo aspects like gold spammers and forced group content and the character development is so limited and open world  more like open dungeon .

  BarCrow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/25/07
Posts: 2195

1/03/14 11:38:55 PM#37

         One of the main things that makes an MMO for me is if I can stumble across another player in place I'd least expect. Its actually a surprise.   It requires a vast ,seemingly uncompartmentalized world to explore. It can't happen in a hub where every square inch is part of a greased up quest chain and invisible walls abound.Even the "secret" places are only there to satisfy the urge to collect. A path put in for the soul purpose of a new  shiny for the umpteenth check list. SWTOR's datacron hunts are a good example of this.

         These worlds are very rarely made these days. Mortal Online's open. Almost too open. Put some more wildlife critters in there guys. It's definitely come a long long way since beta/launch and still has plenty to go. It has a good feeling of threat and exploration. I spend hours just running about. Just wish the land wasn't just a complete perfect circle. Why did they change it I wonder?  Vanguard great for exploration..

         There are a few more still around and I am hopeful these indie projects that are clawing about lately will scratch those itches because the bigger beasts can't even seem to grow nails anymore. Oh they roar a lot . Sometimes for years. Then come launch day all we get is a weak , strangled purr. WTF? kittens. Where's the lion they "promised" me?

         The others MMOS have their place. Really they do. I like SWTOR , DCUO and even WOW is played from time to time among others.

         Just really looking for an actual world that I can finally call home..because it feels like one. Not because its the nicest looking or only house left on the block.

 

 
  KirinRahl

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/04
Posts: 154

1/03/14 11:41:53 PM#38

This is the weakest, most irrelevant timewaster of a conversation I ever see crop up.

 

I've seen it so many times, and every time it ends with everyone reiterating their own opinion about the whole matter.  Occasionally they also cross their arms and huff.

 

This is a stupid conversation.  The game has many MMORPG-like elements in it.  It's closer to an MMO than it is to Battlefield or Star Conflict or Call of Duty or DotA.

 

Stop picking this nit.

 
  cronius77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1308

1/03/14 11:59:12 PM#39
I found that neverwinter had a very strong community compared to a lot of other mmo's to date. Lots of grouping in each zone for dungeons without using the looking for a dungeon instance tool. I do not see how this game wouldnt be called an mmorpg as it has a server that holds thousands of players so its massive . Its linear yes but you also have the foundry and plenty of player content from the campaigns to skirmishes to dungeons etc. So not thinking its an mmorpg is kinda a stretch as it has all the features other than it being very instanced and linear. The thing I hate about it is its designed from the ground up to empty your wallet like all the other perfect world games. I really wish the parent company to cryptic didnt sell off the studio to those moronic idiots at perfect world. id love to see them out of business and out of the mmo genre. It just sucks as I feel like neverwinter is a good game but once the chinese get a hold of it its all nickle and dime time.
  Xandramas

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/07
Posts: 73

1/04/14 12:14:11 AM#40
its as much an mmo as any other p2w aka f2p mmo out there. Anybody saying different is deluding themselves.
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