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General Discussion  » Forbes Predicting Biggest Disaster of 2014

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323 posts found
  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1461

1/03/14 2:06:59 PM#141
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by JJ82

Thanks for the typical post by those defending the game. Toss out everything you cant refute and focus on one small part of it you can.

Not once has anyone defending this game pointed to one thing in the game that is remotely innovative. Its just another MMORPG that brings nothing new to the genre other than its a new MMO, the very thing that has caused so many games to fail over the last 7 years.

Go look at what I typed earlier in the thread - I've given plenty of reasons why this game has it going on. You picked the wrong poster to accuse of not leaving evidence behind.

Oh, don't want to be bothered to read all 13 pages, then you just reinforce exactly what I said, we need a damn rating system on these comments so that ones related to the topic can be top of mind instead of buried by doom or bromance comments.

You did not give a single innovative thing about this game. Once again, reinforcing what I said. We don't have a rating system because of posters like you. Fanboys will really shutdown the forums then with their group mentality of "they must saying only good things or attack attack attack".

Hold still. Take this slower. I said this game was doing innovative things? Don't put words in my mouth. You quoted me using innovative. It wasn't my claim.

You replied to my post stating that no one defending the game pointed to one thing innovative with a response that states that I need to read your previous replies........So now you are taking the next typical step of those defending this game, arguing to argue.

You had no reason to even reply to me since you are not actually targeting anything I am saying.

But its nice to see you are admitting the game isn't bringing anything new or advancing the genre at all, that its just another MMORPG clone.

Read the rest, I added some innovation to make you happy. But you won't be happy so I'll be content to know that you wish to call this game a clone. You can say anything isn't innovation - they have new things which is the definition of innovative but if you don't like them I guess you get to say not for me and blow it off either way. I get that you don't want to like the game, scoot on down the road. 

I think I'd rather call this game home. If they pull this off, I will def. be playing this game. I hope they push back the release and make it even more polished, will just make it even better.

I don't know what the rest of you will be doing - maybe calling everything a clone for the next 10 years because it has quests, players, and hotbars. It must suit us all just fine or we wouldn't be doing it :)

  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1015

1/03/14 2:13:57 PM#142
Originally posted by greenreen

Read the rest, I added some innovation to make you happy. But it won't be happy so I'll be content to know that you wish to call this game a clone. I think I'd rather call this game home. If they pull this off, I will def. be playing this game.

I don't know what the rest of you will be doing - maybe calling everything a clone for the next 10 years. It must suit us all just fine or we wouldn't be doing it :)

I read it all, you gave no innovations. A game having something only a few have is not being innovative. And yes, a game that doesn't bring a single thing NEW is a clone.  Do you know what the word innovate means?!? And to top it off, you continued with your "the article was nothing more than a it will fail because of sub" rant. Typical deny everything you cant refute even exists posts.......

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1461

1/03/14 2:14:55 PM#143
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by greenreen

Read the rest, I added some innovation to make you happy. But it won't be happy so I'll be content to know that you wish to call this game a clone. I think I'd rather call this game home. If they pull this off, I will def. be playing this game.

I don't know what the rest of you will be doing - maybe calling everything a clone for the next 10 years. It must suit us all just fine or we wouldn't be doing it :)

I read it all, you gave no innovations. A game having something only a few have is not being innovative. And yes, a game that doesn't bring a single thing NEW is a clone.  Do you know what the word innovate means?!? And to top it off, you continued with your "the article was nothing more than a it will fail because of sub" rant. Typical deny everything you cant refute even exists posts.......

Predicted it - I am a freaking psychic :)))

Name the game where every player can use stealth.

Name the clone where the UI is almost non-existent as this game is.

Or any of the rest - you can't name one game - not one.

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1368

1/03/14 2:17:53 PM#144

Lazy article. There are reasons ESO might fail but just shouting "Subscription!" and "SWTOR" isn't going to cut it if you want to convince me with an article like this.

 

I also have a problem with people saying subs are "outdated". The same kind of people say "desktop PCs are outdated!" Well guess what, plenty of people left in the world aren't willing to ditch their PC for a tablet or ditch their quality sub MMO for a cash shop mess. I don't see any cash shop MMOs setting the world on fire in terms of sales anyway.

 

There were bad design reasons SWTOR failed. ESO might make similar bad decisions but I won't know that til I play it.

 

  gotha

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1045

1/03/14 2:19:33 PM#145

Sell a few million boxes,  juice it for a subs,  switch it over to free to play.  This is the normal pattern for most AAA releases and the companies know this.  They will make a profit,  and we will say it failed and the game will likely be like warhammer and dead in 7 years.  The people who put money in the game will make money.  The studio will close because you cannot really juice sequals for MMOs.

 

Also what is forbes fettish with MMOs.  They releases lots of crud articles on MMOs.  Everyone thinks they are some kind stocker informed articles when in reality they are mostly sht like this.

  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1015

1/03/14 2:23:54 PM#146
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

Classless system? Again, something people always complain about the class system. 

 

The game server is shardless. I believe this is something that I hear people complain about all the time. So it's not a "given" on the feature list.

 

Large-scale PvP. This is something that people raved about when CU was announced, so why is having PvP battles with hundreds of people all of a sudden not innovative for TESO?

 

What about just walking up and taking shit that's in the environment? a la every ES game in history? Hell, if I want to take that urinal cake, I'm gonna take it! 

 

IDK, just sounds like a bunch of haters imo. If it was any other game *COUGH* Archage *COUGH* people would be worshipping it sight unseen.

 

It is not a classless system. TSW is a classless system. In TESO if you chose a "class" you cant use the skills of "other class". Its a fake system created to make it look like TES to get more TES players to buy it. You are still locked into your choice and yes, if you play a sorcerer and equip a restoration staff for heals, you will be a weak healer with weak DPS. You will never heal as good as a healer class will heal. Sure, you can tank as a Sorc, but you will lack the basic tank skills that come with the tank class making you a second rate tank.

A game server is not game innovation, its server innovation.

Large-scale PvP.....behind an invisible wall and will never top WoWs(yeah im going to say something good about that bad game) open world PvP during vanilla when Orggrimar was once attacked by over 1000 alliance players.

Walking up and taking shit in the environment?!? I could do that in Asherons Call. And that is not an ES staple, like first person, its in EVERY RPG. Taking environment items goes back to Ultima 1....

 

IDK, just sounds like a bunch of fanboys imo. Desperate for something new that is somehow going to be different than the last failed MMO despite using the same formulas over and over while slamming anything *COUGH* different *COUGH*.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1015

1/03/14 2:29:48 PM#147
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by JJ82

  Do you know what the word innovate means?!?

Predicted it - I am a freaking psychic :)))

Name the game where every player can use stealth.

Name the clone where the UI is almost non-existent as this game is.

Or any of the rest - you can't name one game - not one.

Predicated it - I am freaking psychic :))) /pats self on back for being so brilliant.

Stealth, a game innovation bringing a new game element to the genre.

Giving everyone stealth, re-using someone elses idea in a different way.

BTW, Asherons Call 1 had a much smaller UI. Also, UI? Seriously? You got THAT smug thinking you found innovation in a massive AAA MMORPG by thinking its UI is innovative.

OMG THE UI IS INNOAVTIVE THIS IS SO WORTH PLAYING NOW!

wow..........so little can be said that people are pointing to the UI to find innovation.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1461

1/03/14 2:33:37 PM#148
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by JJ82

  Do you know what the word innovate means?!?

Predicted it - I am a freaking psychic :)))

Name the game where every player can use stealth.

Name the clone where the UI is almost non-existent as this game is.

Or any of the rest - you can't name one game - not one.

Predicated it - I am freaking psychic :))) /pats self on back for being so brilliant.

Stealth, a game innovation bringing a new game element to the genre.

Giving everyone stealth, re-using someone elses idea in a different way.

BTW, Asherons Call 1 had a much smaller UI. Also, UI? Seriously? You got THAT smug thinking you found innovation in a massive AAA MMORPG by thinking its UI is innovative.

OMG THE UI IS INNOAVTIVE THIS IS SO WORTH PLAYING NOW!

wow..........so little can be said that people are pointing to the UI to find innovation.

PEBKAC. Told you that you wouldn't be satisfied even when I offered you innovation which you wanted.

  Thoric485

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 554

1/03/14 3:20:18 PM#149
It's such a tired old dance - CG trailers out the ass, big hype, great reviews, huge amount of pre-orders, then they lose more than half of the population in the first three months, then F2P limbo. AoC, WAR, Rift, TOR - dead or dying, even granddaddy WoW is on a steady decline... people are weary, they want a new MMO formula, true action combat, meaningful player interaction, a persistent world, innovative content. TESO is far too late to the party.

"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."

  Celcius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 941

1/03/14 3:32:34 PM#150
That article is more about claiming the sub model is dead then using specific reasons as to why the game will be a big disaster. 
  User Deleted
1/03/14 3:36:40 PM#151

There seems to be a large group of players that are really against ESO for sometimes comical reasons (I want modded skyrim!!!11) so I have no doubt that there will be no shortage of disappointment.  The last time I saw this kind of attitude towards a game here was actually with the anti-WoW crowd 4 or 5 years ago.

ESO may very well crash and burn, or it may actually do just fine, and it no doubt will have a vocally polarized MMO community trying to spin either outcome in their favor.

  User Deleted
1/03/14 3:38:04 PM#152

If this game were EA made, I would be wondering if some trolls were really paid trolls as in the past but screw that as I don't really care today. If I am honest, SWTOR failed. There is a reason Bioware went the way of the dinosaurs with only a skeletal rebranded remnant retained that will never meet the content release goals they announced before release. The bottom line is that for what they spent they didn't garner the returns expected and all those big names now work somewhere else. Its a free to play grinder with the gall to charge you for hot key bars and sell bikini panties for your characters in the cash shop to stay a'float. It is what it is. A horrible disappointment that killed the willingness of investors to take chances in future games because if a Star Wars MMO can't make it what can?

 

So the guy at Forbes is a sci fi writer with two books to his name that he tries to hawk at the end of his article and no real game experience outside of playing. It's kind of like this site I guess in that he writes opinions the brand name lets us take seriously for a while. I will even concede that he makes decent points regarding the business model but ultimately his snarky attitude with the developer return comments at the end leave me feeling he is too high on himself and ZOS too much on the defensive already. They read like they are about to have a twitter war.

 

*Strawberry Cup Cakes* man I can write a better article than the Forbes guy... Pfft.

 

There are a lot of troubling details about TESO that leave a large portion of the pundits and forum warriors looking at this title as if it is the most likely to fail. I lean that way myself, it's a disaster waiting to happen. But if you are going to write an official opinion on a big name site for a feature article at least take the time to do it right and with a degree of professionalism.

  Pigglesworth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

1/03/14 3:38:05 PM#153
ESO may not bring anything especially new to the genre, but it does bring almost all the best ideas into one place.

Think of it as a "best practices" MMO.

@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 3003

1/03/14 3:42:21 PM#154
Originally posted by SoulTrapOnSelf

Seems many around here haven't beta tested the game. I hope you guys get to play the game in open beta. It should be around Feb/March. NDA hasn't been lifted of course. Zenimax is just avoiding an eventual shit storm. Guild members and other Alliances called quit. Unless Zenimax changes the atrocious PvE and classes, which I doubt it, Forbes will be laughing at you. Enough with the PvE dumbing down. Dull characters, a sorcerer that can't cast an invisibility spell butt he Nightblade can. Sorcerer can't cast a fear spell, the Nightblade can. What is goin on? A sorcerer that needs a fire staff to cast a fireball, a frost staff to cast frost spells? Really? No underwater exploration. Well, exploration doesn't exist!

You gotta play it so you can see this nonsense. Here's hoping Bethesda doesn't crap on TES VI !!

 

/back to Skyrim

It so happens that in Lord of the Rings, Gandalf couldn't cast anything without his staff, so there! lol.

There Is Always Hope!

  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1138

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

1/03/14 3:54:11 PM#155
Originally posted by Toxia

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/01/02/predicting-the-biggest-disaster-of-2014-the-elder-scrolls-online/

 

Thoughts?

1.  He is using SW:ToR as his example of how something so potentially viable can fail.  This would be fine, IF considering that had SW:ToR been a fun title (and it was god awful, sorry Star Wars LARP/COSPLAY folks, the game did you no justice), this would be a viable argument.  "Here's this great game that failed," this guy is saying.  Reality is that you can hang a sign on a pig and call it a horse...and that's what the industry has done for years.  SW:ToR was a pig of a game, and I mean that in the nicest of ways.  Just processed E-Sport nonsense. 

 

2.  If TESO keeps their fail UI/combat/movement mechanics model, and even that awkward side view of the character while you're moving in 3rd person...then yes, this game is doomed to be a niche game at best where folks like me will play (yes, I will play) and do their best to ignore the above.

 

But telling the readers that F2P is the savior of the industry is a flat out lie.  If this guy even plays mmo video games ( I refuse to call them RPGs anymore), he should well know what happens when the flood gates of bots and children fill a f2P cash shop Pay to Win universe of linear gaming.  Monthly subs don't necessarily make a better game, but they are at least a thumb in the leak at the dam wall...the game still needs to not be crap (still waiting)...

 

F2P is fail in itself and over time I believe even the American base of players who seem to love being stroked by countless 5 race 4 copy paste classes will start to get wise while they get older.  F2P belongs in the video game system industry...XBOX, PS4, and so forth.  That's the population they are aiming at anyway.

 

So far, the folks at Zenimax, while horribly lost on the basics of their game (sigh...dammit!), have enough faith in their title to avoid the cash shop Asian tidal wave that has consumed so many lesser projects.

 

 

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17400

1/03/14 4:24:31 PM#156
Originally posted by Comaf

 

2.  If TESO keeps their fail UI/combat/movement mechanics model, and even that awkward side view of the character while you're moving in 3rd person...then yes, this game is doomed to be a niche game at best where folks like me will play (yes, I will play) and do their best to ignore the above.

 


 

Except people like/love that (including myself) so there is no universal merit to your statement except that you don't like it.

the UI/combat/movement is probably based a bit off skyrim (to a point) as well as the slightly offside character in 3rd person. And I don't recall that particularly being an issue (it had other UI issues because of the port).

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1461

1/03/14 5:58:35 PM#157

Someone commented in that article that there were 4 million people signing up for beta - dat true?

"

Poster - 1 hour ago

Don’t presume to tell us what we want. 1.7m likes on facebook and 4m beta applications say different.

"
Imagine if they all came to the game on day 1 - nothing is going to be around to kill lol
  Pigglesworth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

1/03/14 6:02:21 PM#158
Originally posted by greenreen

Someone commented in that article that there were 4 million people signing up for beta - dat true?

"

Poster - 1 hour ago

Don’t presume to tell us what we want. 1.7m likes on facebook and 4m beta applications say different.

"
Imagine if they all came to the game on day 1 - nothing is going to be around to kill lol

Most games boost the spawn rates for the first few weeks, especially in the starting zones.

Also, the phasing will stop everyone from coming into the same place.

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  Loktofeit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/03/14 6:02:37 PM#159
Originally posted by Celcius
That article is more about claiming the sub model is dead then using specific reasons as to why the game will be a big disaster. 

That was my takeaway, too. 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  JJ82

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1015

1/03/14 6:23:11 PM#160
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
ESO may not bring anything especially new to the genre, but it does bring almost all the best ideas into one place.

Think of it as a "best practices" MMO.

 

"The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results."

Sums up most of the genre lately, the same pile of crap in a new package. So making yet another game with old ideas is going to do what? The same as all the other games that have done that the last 7 years.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

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