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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Old school heart, modern limitations

9 posts found
  daelnor

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/04
Posts: 1467

 
OP  12/31/13 12:08:47 PM#1

Random thoughts that most people may not care about, but may provoke thoughts with older gamers.

 

I was around when the first MMO's came out, but I didn't play them.  I use to watch some of my buddies play UO, and I stuck with my text based MUDS.  However, when they all switched over to DAOC, I jumped on board with them...and there began my love of MMO's.  I played endlessly, grinding away, then discovered raids, then PVP, and I was hooked.

Along came WoW, ShadowBane, EQ2, Vanguard,Rift, DDO, etc and so on, and not necesarily in that order.

 

I spent a lot of time in MMO's over the years, playing, pking, being a pve carebear, running guilds, writing reviews, beta testing, alpha testing, and so on.

 

At varying periods of time, I was hardcore, I was casual, I jumped on new-game bandwagons, I trashtalked games I didn't like, I played neutral and looked for the good/bad in every game coming out.  I became aware of the inside joke apparent to all of us, that when devs say "releasing in 2013" for the first time, you know it is more likely 2015 that the game will get released, if the company doesn't fold in the mean time.

I look at games coming out now, and even though I hear and see a lot of things I like, my overall  reaction is "meh" at best.

Why is that? Do games suck now?  Did WoW kill everything?  Is it Sand Box Vs. Theme park?

Actually, it is none of the above.  It is me.  I am no longer interested in spending 10 hours every day grinding in one fashion or the other.  Don't get me wrong, I'll still pull a 12 hour gaming session here and there, but nothing like I use to.  I stare at a computer screen all day at work. I go home and stare at a computer screen doing homework, or working on my side job doing graphic design and photography...and I just don't want to sit in front of a shiny screen as much as I use to.

These days, all I manage to play is DDO, and that is only because it is an easy game to play for an hour or two at a time, I have a small group of friends I can group up with pretty much any time I want and run a few quests.

Am I saying DDO is better than anything out there? Hardly.  I am sure it is much worse than a lot of games currently out.  However, I have come to realize that I have changed, and therefore the things I like have changed.

Did I think DAOC was an amazing game? Hell yeah! I loved it! (disclaimer: not including trials of atlantis or the "New Frontier")  Would I play it if it came out today? Probably..very casually for a month or so..and then I'd realize I can't devote the time to it to really enjoy it.

 

There really is no point to this, just the musing thoughts of an "old school" gamer.  Anyone have similar experiences or epiphanies?

 

**note: The irony of the internet: I just realized that I hated New Frontiers because of the fast travel and cheapening of the PvP game..but I also wrote a review for it at one point in time..for this site...where I gave it gushing reviews.**  That rear view mirror can be thought provoking..and quite embarrassing at times...

  iridescence

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

12/31/13 1:15:21 PM#2
Originally posted by daelnor

 

 

 

Actually, it is none of the above.  It is me.  I am no longer interested in spending 10 hours every day grinding in one fashion or the other.  Don't get me wrong, I'll still pull a 12 hour gaming session here and there, but nothing like I use to.  I stare at a computer screen all day at work. I go home and stare at a computer screen doing homework, or working on my side job doing graphic design and photography...and I just don't want to sit in front of a shiny screen as much as I use to.

I'm confused, which games ever required a 10 hour a day grinding session to play? Even if some old games did who is advocating that for new games.  Either this is a strawman or you are saying some people spent 10 hrs a day grinding and you felt compelled to compete with them which is totally different than saying the game required you to.A good game is probably fun whether you play it for 30 minutes or 12 hours at a time. Even an extremely time-intensive game like EVE certainly doesn't require anything close to 10 hour a day grinding sessions unless you are just obsessed with being the most hardcore of hardcore.

  

if you really used to spend 10 hours a day grinding in MMOs it's good you've mellowed out a bit. I don't think that's very healthy for anyone.

 

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 999

12/31/13 3:38:05 PM#3
I think for me that there's too much formula going on.  Too much of the same core of game play when it really comes down to it.  I am looking for a sandbox and a virtual world.  If it never happens I just never will spend money on a MMORPG again.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

12/31/13 3:49:27 PM#4
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
I think for me that there's too much formula going on.  Too much of the same core of game play when it really comes down to it.  I am looking for a sandbox and a virtual world.  If it never happens I just never will spend money on a MMORPG again.

Given so many F2P MMORPGs, i just never will spend money on a MMORPG again, whether they are catering to my taste.

 

  daelnor

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/04
Posts: 1467

 
OP  12/31/13 3:53:20 PM#5
Originally posted by iridescence
 

I'm confused, which games ever required a 10 hour a day grinding session to play? Even if some old games did who is advocating that for new games.  Either this is a strawman or you are saying some people spent 10 hrs a day grinding and you felt compelled to compete with them which is totally different than saying the game required you to.A good game is probably fun whether you play it for 30 minutes or 12 hours at a time. Even an extremely time-intensive game like EVE certainly doesn't require anything close to 10 hour a day grinding sessions unless you are just obsessed with being the most hardcore of hardcore.

  

if you really used to spend 10 hours a day grinding in MMOs it's good you've mellowed out a bit. I don't think that's very healthy for anyone.

 

Ah, this isn't a complaint about current games, it's more of an introspection into how I've changed over the years.  I'm sure others have had similar experiences.  A  lot of people complain now about how games are too shallow, there is no depth, you're given things too easy.  A reflection of the fact that many of the games I loved years ago, I would not play now.  I was big into PvP at one point, but that required a lot of dedication to be good enough to not just get PK'd every time you wandered into a PvP area.  Crafting took a ton of time and dedication, leveling often consisted of grinding a mob spawn for hours on end.

Raids use to require at least 50-60 people in the older games, and usually took hours to complete.  A PvP raid could last for hours on end in itself.  DAOC, EQ etc. were very time consuming to make any real progress.  Not complaining about it, nor talking down on newer games. Like I said, more of a self reflective post, and wondering who has noticed the same experiences over the course of their gaming life, more about changes to themselves and how it has effected their view of gaming in general.

  AtmaDarkwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/04
Posts: 364

1/01/14 5:27:14 AM#6

Its not 'Just' you. A large contributor to this is that dev's making the games first off are unwilling to 'risk' anything, so follow the same basic ideas(Wow hit big, so if we pretty much copy them, at least we will get SOME wow players) and devs have also discovered its better profit, overall, to sell 'instant access' in form of power, money, better items, etc, even if selling said 'access' reduces your games lifespan. And players are buying/paying for it.

 

Games of yesteryear were also 'less' risk in that there were fewer (in comparison to now) developers, artists, coders, graphic designers and animators, to the ratio of players. (In the very beginning there were few enough at both and cost to produce was low enough as to make it unrisky, and with so 'few' choices, until wow Anyways, a game had a fair chance to get noticed and played enough to pay for its costs.

 

Now the opposite is true, just look at the list here(And this isn't even hardly 1/4 all the games out there) and many people (Woe generation are a big chunk) of people just doing as you said, now they got other, more important things to do, than 'work' at playing a game. With the current selection of games being so overly saturated, so many will simply fall on the wayside and get forgotten simply because there are just so many to pick from.

 

I get that way too, used to play (Even if just 'hanging out' in a game) a good 8ish hrs a night 5 days a week, and I had the time (And energy) to do so while still going to school, working, etc. Now I like to play a bit, maybe, but for the most part Sometimes I just want to kick up and watch some tv, then 'relax' and not stress over a game. (As much,lol I still play more hardcore than most of my RL friends LOL)

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 724

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

1/01/14 5:33:34 AM#7

 I was 10-12 hours grinder myself, so were all my friends (even the rl ones who were mostly on consoles were hard into it). Now I am...simply burnt out on that kind of work. I got other stuff to do, and when I don't, I still have other stuff I want to be doing. And, games that have a grind are off-putting now. It's usually either to short of a grind to bother with because I know if I want to I can bang it out in no time and it feels pointless. Or it's such a long grind I think "I just don't have time for this". When I was younger I didn't think about the grind. I just played.

 

Also, on the irony of the internet, there was this thing I heard once (can't remember who said it): "The great thing about the internet is that any one can be self published; The terrible thing about the internet is that any one can be self published."

Qualifiers for failing to deliver on story (in a supposedly story driven MMORPG):
If my character starts out ship wrecked on a beach.
If my character has amnesia; But, is also somehow the chosen one.
If my character has a place of origin that they will likely never set foot in until mid-high level.

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2501

1/01/14 5:56:42 AM#8

I play sinds AC1 launched and had similar experience as you.

But some things never changed for me i stayed HARDCORE also when i got family and work and i could not play as much as i wanted.

Early years i played 7 days a week easy 10-15hours a day.

Now most of time i can play maybe 4 hours day.

But i dont want games to be easy i still want as i use to they be hardcore if its timesink so be it then it will take longer.

But becouse ive changed don't mean i suddenly want games also be more easy so i can do whatever i want in time alouded.

Thats difference between most of you and me.

You have similar expereince and same situtation but you guys want the games adjust to you and make is simpler and easy becouse your SORRY EXCUSES is family and work there for want ezmode.

I can say the same but i don't i will not play games that are easy becouse i have less time then i will rather quit then play these sorry excuse for games made these days.

Yes WoW is MAINLY responsible for the state most mmo's are in right now.

Im still amazed how easy most of you guys give in to these spoonfed ezmode mmo's is beyond me still after 15years don't want that im prolly one of few left feel the same way ssadly.

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  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5147

1/01/14 6:22:40 AM#9

Its not just a matter of some of us changing our lifestyle so it is harder to be hardcore. There are only easymode MMOs now, there is no choice. You can play older games but even most of them have changed, either becoming somewhat easymode, P2W or both.

But how much time did we need to spend online? I was not playing all week at top level to stay at top level. We did two nights of raids to do that. The rest of the time I was there just enjoying the game, or the guild or some roleplaying.