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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Why I'm taking a long break from this game

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61 posts found
  drivendawn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 945

12/30/13 10:41:58 PM#21
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by ZizouX
Originally posted by amber-r

It's sad when you can easily list numerous reasons that FFXI was good and worth playing and really only 1 to play FFXIV.  Graphics.

 

I hope they refurbish FFXI one day, it's still the better game.

Rose tinted glasses.

Rose tinted glasses has nothing to do with it. FFXI kept me - and many, many others - entertained for almost 8 years, until the unholy trinity known as Abyssea came out and basically undermined everything SE had built up 'til that point. Even SE came out later and admitted they screwed up with Abyssea, and they never recovered from it.

I would take pre-Abyssea FFXI back in a heart beat. No question.

And that's not nostalgia goggles or rose-tinted glasses talking. That's almost 8 years of awesome memories created, epic experiences, new friends made whom I still talk to to this day, stories I never tired of experiencing, memorable/funny/awesome characters, and a world I never got tired of exploring, no matter how many times I ran through it.  

In my humble opinion, SE captured lightning in a bottle with XI. I'm sure it was due, in no small part, to Sakaguchi's involvement, as XI was one of the last titles he worked on before he left SE. Of course, they later squandered and lost that lightning when they decided to release Abyssea. It's been downhill since then. 

Was it all roses and rainbows? Nope. I have my share of bad memories, too. But they are few and ultimately insignificant, and had no effect on my enjoyment of the game.

Would a game like early XI do as well if it launched today? Probably not. But that takes nothing away from the game it was.

Others around here can speak for themselves, but of all the people I know from XI, only 2 are still playing. All the others (quite a lot) have left. The #1 reason they cite for leaving is "Abyssea ruined it". They'd still be there playing if SE hadn't screwed up the game the way they did with those expansions. I'd be right there along side them.

For me, XIV doesn't even hold a candle to XI - even early on. Yoshi-P is quite dead-set in following the WoW-style Themepark path (per his own say-so). As long as he sticks to that, the game will never have the depth, variety or soul that XI had. For one, he'd have to drop the "strong guidance" (his words) - aka 'handholding' - and let players become more responsible for finding their own way around, rather than just mindlessly chasing arrows and quest markers. And  you know that's never going to happen.

FFXI was amazing for its time.  I spent 2 years playing and loving every minute of it.  I tried to go back and play it, I wanted to rip my hair out.   

Fair enough. The game wasn't as deeply rooted in you as it is in others. That doesn't mean their memories or longing for the game can be dismissed as "rose-tinted glasses". 

Sorry for the rant, but I really hate that "rose-tinted glasses" argument. It is presumptuous in the extreme. You aren't them. You don't know what they remember, or how they remember it.

 

 

A lot of the reason why I left XI was 24 hour camping spawn times with 5% drop rates while contending with botters and almost everything had to be done in a group to name a couple. That being said I played it for 5 years and XIV could use some things from XI like lower lvl gear meaning something at higher lvl and enemies aggroing from sight, smell, and sound  also maybe more of the elemental wheel. To me if they put the two together right it could be a really awesome game. I am enjoying it alll and all though.

  drivendawn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 945

12/30/13 10:43:07 PM#22
 
  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

12/31/13 2:59:23 AM#23
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by ZizouX
Originally posted by amber-r

It's sad when you can easily list numerous reasons that FFXI was good and worth playing and really only 1 to play FFXIV.  Graphics.

 

I hope they refurbish FFXI one day, it's still the better game.

Rose tinted glasses.

Rose tinted glasses has nothing to do with it. FFXI kept me - and many, many others - entertained for almost 8 years, until the unholy trinity known as Abyssea came out and basically undermined everything SE had built up 'til that point. Even SE came out later and admitted they screwed up with Abyssea, and they never recovered from it.

I would take pre-Abyssea FFXI back in a heart beat. No question.

And that's not nostalgia goggles or rose-tinted glasses talking. That's almost 8 years of awesome memories created, epic experiences, new friends made whom I still talk to to this day, stories I never tired of experiencing, memorable/funny/awesome characters, and a world I never got tired of exploring, no matter how many times I ran through it.  

In my humble opinion, SE captured lightning in a bottle with XI. I'm sure it was due, in no small part, to Sakaguchi's involvement, as XI was one of the last titles he worked on before he left SE. Of course, they later squandered and lost that lightning when they decided to release Abyssea. It's been downhill since then. 

Was it all roses and rainbows? Nope. I have my share of bad memories, too. But they are few and ultimately insignificant, and had no effect on my enjoyment of the game.

Would a game like early XI do as well if it launched today? Probably not. But that takes nothing away from the game it was.

Others around here can speak for themselves, but of all the people I know from XI, only 2 are still playing. All the others (quite a lot) have left. The #1 reason they cite for leaving is "Abyssea ruined it". They'd still be there playing if SE hadn't screwed up the game the way they did with those expansions. I'd be right there along side them.

For me, XIV doesn't even hold a candle to XI - even early on. Yoshi-P is quite dead-set in following the WoW-style Themepark path (per his own say-so). As long as he sticks to that, the game will never have the depth, variety or soul that XI had. For one, he'd have to drop the "strong guidance" (his words) - aka 'handholding' - and let players become more responsible for finding their own way around, rather than just mindlessly chasing arrows and quest markers. And  you know that's never going to happen.

FFXI was amazing for its time.  I spent 2 years playing and loving every minute of it.  I tried to go back and play it, I wanted to rip my hair out.   

Fair enough. The game wasn't as deeply rooted in you as it is in others. That doesn't mean their memories or longing for the game can be dismissed as "rose-tinted glasses". 

Sorry for the rant, but I really hate that "rose-tinted glasses" argument. It is presumptuous in the extreme. You aren't them. You don't know what they remember, or how they remember it.

 

 

It went downhill long before Abyssea, the reason most people point to Abyssea is because it killed much of the old content/obsoleted the gear they had worked for years on so they no longer were tied to their characters.

 

However, regardless of how great FFXI was.  FFXI today is not that FFXI, and neither is any other game on the market or in development.  FFXIV is absolutely the closest you can get to that, it has many of the same people working on it, and while not perfect it does offer a good PvE experience for those interested in it (except it doesn't offer any true alliance content yet).

 

Aside from: to rant, what is the point of bringing up old school FFXI?  It's gone and that type of MMORPG will probably never be made again, at least not until the technology to produce and run MMORPG's becomes much cheaper (or people learn to live with cheaply made games).

 

However I don't think most people playing FFXIV are playing it simply for the graphics as Amber-R was suggesting, but that is obvious they weren't really suggesting that they are just *REDACTED*-ing.

 

I will say if your main draw to FFXI was the quests that didn't offer you arrows in game or markers then you missed out on a lot of great experiences.  To me it was the vast expanse of progression options for gil, gear, and jobs all of which you could do with friends that made FFXI special.  FFXIV could certainly deliver that if they continue to expand content regardless of it having "markers above NPC heads to denote quest givers".

 

Honestly what a shallow complaint.  Most people just looked up that information on 3rd party sites anyways.  Complaining about quests being "ruined" by markers on maps and above quest givers is such a minor thing.  If you want to talk about "hand holding" and "easy-mode gaming" MMORPG gaming in recent years has been far more damaged by the spread of "youtube strategies" than anything in-game that "hand holds" people.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  Sengell

Novice Member

Joined: 10/10/12
Posts: 28

12/31/13 6:09:41 AM#24

In my eyes convenience changes doesn't matter.

For me only one thing matters, so please tell me. How many people have beaten the game yet? If you answer nearly everyone who invested enough time, it's not worth the challenge. A mmo which makes everyone a winner by default, has no incentive to be played by me. Not because I am a great player, I'm far from it, but because I want to be rewarded for never giving up and constantly trying my best. In an environment where everyone wins I can't experience that. A mmo has to possess endgame conent which is incredible hard to beat, otherwise there are no dreams left. My 2cent as a former EQ2 raider.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1192

12/31/13 11:25:41 AM#25
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by ZizouX
Originally posted by amber-r

It's sad when you can easily list numerous reasons that FFXI was good and worth playing and really only 1 to play FFXIV.  Graphics.

 

I hope they refurbish FFXI one day, it's still the better game.

 

It went downhill long before Abyssea, the reason most people point to Abyssea is because it killed much of the old content/obsoleted the gear they had worked for years on so they no longer were tied to their characters.

 I disagree completely with the bit in blue. It had begun to decline in population, just as any MMO its age does, for the same reasons any other MMO its age does. However, Abyssea sped up the process significantly.

It's difficult to argue numbers as few, if any, were ever released for that time period. However, the timing of their world merges paints a pretty clear picture of how things went down.

Consider that the first server merge, which came shortly before Abyssea's release, happened almost 8 years into the game's life, in early 2010. Its second server merge was just over 1 year later, in 2011, only about 4 months after Heroes of Abyssea completed the trilogy. Not only did those expansions, and other updates around it, fail to bring in many new players, it actually led to an even faster loss of population - a large chunk of whom cited Abyssea and other game-altering changes as their reason for leaving. 

In a nut-shell, pre-Abyssea, it took nearly 8 years for the population to drop enough to warrant a first world merge. It only took 1 year more (in which Abyssea was released) for the population drop to warrant a second merge. Through all its previous expansions, XI maintained a consistent/steady population. Following Abyssea, it's been on a significant decline - despite all of SE's efforts to "put it back on track". They screwed up with Abyssea, and even SE has come out and admitted that. They lost the plot, they changed their focus and they made changes that very few asked for or wanted. The results have been clear.

However, regardless of how great FFXI was.  FFXI today is not that FFXI, and neither is any other game on the market or in development.  FFXIV is absolutely the closest you can get to that, it has many of the same people working on it, and while not perfect it does offer a good PvE experience for those interested in it (except it doesn't offer any true alliance content yet).

 I disagree. There are games out there that are much closer to what XI was. Sadly, those are also older-school games that the newer, so-called "modern MMO gamer" wouldn't touch... because they're "old". 

Aside from: to rant, what is the point of bringing up old school FFXI?  It's gone and that type of MMORPG will probably never be made again, at least not until the technology to produce and run MMORPG's becomes much cheaper (or people learn to live with cheaply made games).

When people cite problems they have with XIV (or any game), they're often asked to offer alternatives; examples of "what game did it better". FFXI is not only a valid option in that scenario, being another MMO, but it's especially so being a direct "relative" to XIV developed by- as you stated - many of the same people.

I will say if your main draw to FFXI was the quests that didn't offer you arrows in game or markers then you missed out on a lot of great experiences.  To me it was the vast expanse of progression options for gil, gear, and jobs all of which you could do with friends that made FFXI special.  FFXIV could certainly deliver that if they continue to expand content regardless of it having "markers above NPC heads to denote quest givers".

Allow me to quote myself, with emphasis on a key bit that you overlooked...

For me, XIV doesn't even hold a candle to XI - even early on. Yoshi-P is quite dead-set in following the WoW-style Themepark path (per his own say-so). As long as he sticks to that, the game will never have the depth, variety or soul that XI had. For one, he'd have to drop the "strong guidance" (his words) - aka 'handholding' - and let players become more responsible for finding their own way around, rather than just mindlessly chasing arrows and quest markers. And  you know that's never going to happen

The words "for one" are rather key there. I was citing the idea of chasing quest arrows as one example of what I was talking about. I could list many more, but the one example seemed to be sufficient, and a rather key one as the presence of heavy-handed "guidance" (again, Yoshi-P's term) has an undeniable affect on gameplay, community/player interaction, the meta-game, etc.

 Honestly what a shallow complaint.  Most people just looked up that information on 3rd party sites anyways.  Complaining about quests being "ruined" by markers on maps and above quest givers is such a minor thing.  If you want to talk about "hand holding" and "easy-mode gaming" MMORPG gaming in recent years has been far more damaged by the spread of "youtube strategies" than anything in-game that "hand holds" people.

An often made, but always poor argument. Players choose to go use those online guides and strategies. It's a voluntary act to seek assistance outside the game. This falls into the category of people claiming no MMO content is difficult because there are walkthrough guides. It's a ridiculous argument that's as transparently flawed as it is avoidable. 

To wit, don't use the guides, figure out the fights and quest solutions yourself and voila... suddenly it's challenging again!

It would be silly to argue that a SUV isn't heavy because you can use a forklift to pick it up. It's equally silly to claim no MMO has challenging content because you can use guides/videos/templates to get through it.

Youtube vids and walkthrough guides can be avoided. Quest markers/helpers/arrows/indicators which are pervasive and "always on", can not be.

And before someone says "yeah but how many people didn't use those guides and walkthroughs?", I'll cut it off by saying... it doesn't matter. It was still optional. I solved everything I could on my own, using only the info the game gave me. If I was completely stuck, I'd ask another player for help. Failing that, I might then refer to a guide, but only for the part I was stuck on. I'd say about 70% of the content I did, I did on my own. So, it's quite do-able.

 

 

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Xatsh

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 74

12/31/13 11:52:32 AM#26

XI was dying before Abysea came out. Just as WoW is rapidly dying now as well. It was not due to anything besides the fact after that many years the game gets old. But the people who were there right before abysea launched were very dedicated to the game.

Abysea is the reason though the majority of people playing at that time left. I had a guild of 59 active players (active as in 30+hrs a week of playtime... not active it todays mmo standards of 10hrs a week)... abysea came out 10quit almost immediantly because they ruined almost 6strait years of hardwork for gear hand outs. Almost everyone else left when people realized a party of 4 now could litteraly accomplish the same if not more then an alliance of 18+ in about 2hrs. All the longterm goals were removed. The best weapon took a week to get, and it could be soloed with some skill. Before it took the work of a guild and took depending on the guild 1month-1yr.

SE tried to turn XI into a mainstream style game with abysea and this last expansion. By doing so they pushed away the MAJORITY of the people who wanted to keep playing it. It is the #1 reason why when XIV 1.0 failed so few people returned to XI.

Abysea killed off guilds, removed the need for alliances, linear progression by making gear BIS for all stats and buffs, and focused on low man and instance rewards.... Should sound familiar to anyone playing XIV currently. It is a model proven to fail, it is only good for quick thrills and short life.

The people who were very active in XI in general hated the style of WoW's endgame. SE pushed XI and XIV into that style. It is why there is so much resistance to Yoshida's plan now, why XIV is having so many of the same issues the other clones are having, and why XI is a shadow of its former self.

Call it rose tinted graphics or whatever, but it is the hard facts. If SE did not release abysea they would of kept losing subs at about a 5-8% pace a year what they were averaging since wow launched... but they would of not lost 55% of them in the first year after the release of the mini-expansions.

As for current XIV, this game will not make it unless the devs do something. Waiting I guess is the only thing to do. If the devs change course they have a shot, if they keep going full steam into the iceburg ahead... well we all know what happened with that ship. The current path just has too many game breaking issues for a long term mmo to have.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4243

12/31/13 11:57:18 AM#27
Originally posted by Xatsh

XI was dying before Abysea came out. Just as WoW is rapidly dying now as well. It was not due to anything besides the fact after that many years the game gets old. But the people who were there right before abysea launched were very dedicated to the game.

Abysea is the reason though the majority of people playing at that time left. I had a guild of 59 active players (active as in 30+hrs a week of playtime... not active it todays mmo standards of 10hrs a week)... abysea came out 10quit almost immediantly because they ruined almost 6strait years of hardwork for gear hand outs. Almost everyone else left when people realized a party of 4 now could litteraly accomplish the same if not more then an alliance of 18+ in about 2hrs. All the longterm goals were removed. The best weapon took a week to get, and it could be soloed with some skill. Before it took the work of a guild and took depending on the guild 1month-1yr.

SE tried to turn XI into a mainstream style game with abysea and this last expansion. By doing so they pushed away the MAJORITY of the people who wanted to keep playing it. It is the #1 reason why when XIV 1.0 failed so few people returned to XI.

Abysea killed off guilds, removed the need for alliances, linear progression by making gear BIS for all stats and buffs, and focused on low man and instance rewards.... Should sound familiar to anyone playing XIV currently. It is a model proven to fail, it is only good for quick thrills and short life.

The people who were very active in XI in general hated the style of WoW's endgame. SE pushed XI and XIV into that style. It is why there is so much resistance to Yoshida's plan now, why XIV is having so many of the same issues the other clones are having, and why XI is a shadow of its former self.

Call it rose tinted graphics or whatever, but it is the hard facts. If SE did not release abysea they would of kept losing subs at about a 5-8% pace a year what they were averaging since wow launched... but they would of not lost 55% of them in the first year after the release of the mini-expansions.

As for current XIV, this game will not make it unless the devs do something. Waiting I guess is the only thing to do. If the devs change course they have a shot, if they keep going full steam into the iceburg ahead... well we all know what happened with that ship. The current path just has too many game breaking issues for a long term mmo to have.

XIV is doing great, they have over a million active subs and servers are usually packed during prime time and they announced that they are adding more servers for the steam and PS4 release.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1192

12/31/13 1:04:08 PM#28
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
 

XIV is doing great, they have over a million active subs and servers are usually packed during prime time and they announced that they are adding more servers for the steam and PS4 release.

Can you cite your source for that, please, because I can not find anything to corroborate it.

The closest I've seen is that they have ~1.5 accounts. That's not the same as active subscribers. That's just the number of people who've created accounts for the game (including those who were carried over from 1.0).

The most recent info I can find on active subscribers (the number you addressed) is somewhere North of 600k, as of  November 6.

Here's my source

I've not been able to find any update since then with new numbers, certainly not over 1 million active subs. Perhaps you can cite a more recent source.

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  bbethel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/05
Posts: 178

12/31/13 1:33:39 PM#29

I was a 1.0 player and loved the game. I have been playing 2.0 and love the game with all of its problems. I was super excited to finally get a house and start making it into my own. Like what i did in SWG or EQ2. Both of those game i spend months getting items to put in my house. I even out grew out of a few along the way and had to buy the bigger housing. So when FF14 came out with there Housing.  I logged in on 2.1 right away. I ran right over to the housing area. i was so excited.  Then i walked in. To my HORROR I saw the prices.

I have never been rich in FF14 i spend to much time lvling classes or just wasting time with firends. I dont like crafting . So it is very hard for me to keep my self around 500k. Let alone ever be able to come up with the prices that i saw for the lot or the house alone.

Untill they bring the prices down to were everybody can buy a starting house that does not cost millions. I am going to be throwing in my FF14 hat for a while. The Yoshi and the rest of the Higher ups at FF14 really need to rethink what they are doing for FF14. I know a bunch of people and friends that have quit over this stupid housing prices. 

  NetSage

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1010

12/31/13 1:45:57 PM#30
If personal housing every comes I would imagine that will be cheaper.  Personally I don't see the big deal with housing prices.  Simply wait to get one.  Prices will continue to go down until lots start running low I imagine.  And, remember it's something your FC is supposed to pool together not just have one 1-3 people buy.
  Skymourne

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/11
Posts: 359

12/31/13 2:03:21 PM#31

XIV is doing great, they have over a million active subs and servers are usually packed during prime time and they announced that they are adding more servers for the steam and PS4 release.

Please, please cite that for us.  I would LOVE to see it.

  mayanking

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/13
Posts: 111

12/31/13 2:06:42 PM#32
the problem is the current market is almost ruined. sqaure enix has no idea how to handle the market. im on the cheapest server were me and 40 people in my fc wanted a large house yoshi said  medium would be 3X story so i gathered 5mill and some people gathered what they could.. Now its like do we wait for large or buy medium because of the benefits. everything in the market has gone down  to the cheapest the only way i see of legitly farming gold is accutaly buying shards bots farm and sell high when its high which is sad.. I'm not sure why sqaure thinks random people will all donate 99percent of there cash for a house its insane.
  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

1/01/14 9:12:56 AM#33
Originally posted by mayanking
the problem is the current market is almost ruined. sqaure enix has no idea how to handle the market. im on the cheapest server were me and 40 people in my fc wanted a large house yoshi said  medium would be 3X story so i gathered 5mill and some people gathered what they could.. Now its like do we wait for large or buy medium because of the benefits. everything in the market has gone down  to the cheapest the only way i see of legitly farming gold is accutaly buying shards bots farm and sell high when its high which is sad.. I'm not sure why sqaure thinks random people will all donate 99percent of there cash for a house its insane.

 

What a random example of a gil making scheme.  I can assure you that most people in-game are not "buying shards and reselling them", that's ridiculous.  If you are buying gil just say you are buying gil, I'm sure they won't track you down here.

 

The truth is that the prices of many things including food, crafted gear, and materials have gone down in price.  However this is a good thing because it equalizes the economies on all the servers.  No longer are people throwing around millions of gil just to avoid farming a few days of materials for themselves.  That was something the super rich did often before because they had an excess of gil and nothing to spend it on.

 

Now people want to save their gil to buy housing plots.  That along with the change to food (no longer wears off on death), increase in farming drops, and increased options for philosophy tombs (which reduced those bought material prices) all has lead to lower prices across the board.

 

But how about you stop looking it at in such a purely selfish way and consider the fact that MOST players in FFXIV are gil poor.  Your inflated prices pre-patch effectively priced them out of the market.  Many people did not bother to eat food, they did not bother to get crafted gear, in effect it was a state of:

"If you play casually, and don't manipulate market trends to make massive amounts of gil the player economy is largely out of your reach due to extreme prices".

 

There are still ways to make gil, just not the enormous gains from before because there is little being inflated by those with large amounts of gil overpaying for them.  As Yoshida pointed out, this is going to create a situation in two months or so where gil is of equal worth across all servers.  Then legacy can transfer to non-legacy without the concern of that impacting the new world's economy (especially with the current limits on transfers with the gil reduction etc.)

 

Most people won't buy houses for a month or longer, but I think most FC's will have a house before the next patch (which is when they will start actually giving minor effects and being more than fluff anyways).  But most FC's want it and are still saving for it which isn't a bad thing.  Especially with the Company Chest being fixed, it is nice to see donations come rolling in and a complete history of transactions.

 

If they had came out and said "These prices are set in stone" that would be reason to make a big deal out of how expensive it is, but because we know the prices will continue to drop it is within reach of anyone.

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  User Deleted
 
OP  1/05/14 10:57:21 AM#34
Originally posted by Murugan 

Where do you keep getting 450k a day.  I said if everyone in a 20 person FC (average sized) donated 450k you could get a medium house in 90 days.  Or as an FC 88k a day from the entire FC combined.  Not going to break the bank of anyone who plays regularly.  If you don't play regularly (well you quit so this doesn't apply to you) then simply join a larger FC where you don't have to contribute as much or at all.  Also your 32 million number is wrong, all your numbers are wrong you simply do not know what you are talking about.  But if it makes you feel better to get all this rage out...

 

Also yes full allaghan+ food is enough accuracy., but most people mix and match from different sets.  Like they do in every MMORPG with more than one endgame set. 

 

You can get much more than 8 accuracy from many different types of food, and for example Lava Toad Legs give 27 accuracy. 

 

And no coil is not "raiding" it is 8 person, which is the same as extreme primals.  I'd say extreme primals are actually tougher fights than coil, so you are just reaching for excuses at this point.

wow!

 

"Coil is not raiding".....     My point exactly, if what SE officialy calls raids in a game, is not considered raiding to even someone who loves the game as much as you?

 

This alone should turn off anyone who ever loves raiding in any game.  You make my case for me.  Thanks.

 

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

1/05/14 12:48:17 PM#35
Originally posted by fistorm
Originally posted by Murugan 

Where do you keep getting 450k a day.  I said if everyone in a 20 person FC (average sized) donated 450k you could get a medium house in 90 days.  Or as an FC 88k a day from the entire FC combined.  Not going to break the bank of anyone who plays regularly.  If you don't play regularly (well you quit so this doesn't apply to you) then simply join a larger FC where you don't have to contribute as much or at all.  Also your 32 million number is wrong, all your numbers are wrong you simply do not know what you are talking about.  But if it makes you feel better to get all this rage out...

 

Also yes full allaghan+ food is enough accuracy., but most people mix and match from different sets.  Like they do in every MMORPG with more than one endgame set. 

 

You can get much more than 8 accuracy from many different types of food, and for example Lava Toad Legs give 27 accuracy. 

 

And no coil is not "raiding" it is 8 person, which is the same as extreme primals.  I'd say extreme primals are actually tougher fights than coil, so you are just reaching for excuses at this point.

wow!

 

"Coil is not raiding".....     My point exactly, if what SE officialy calls raids in a game, is not considered raiding to even someone who loves the game as much as you?

 

This alone should turn off anyone who ever loves raiding in any game.  You make my case for me.  Thanks.

 

I'm glad after 4 pages I could finally help you make at least one point.

 

As for it not being for someone who loves raiding in any game, what game still has decent raiding again?  Not WoW, certainly not GW2/SWTOR/Neverwinter or any other recent release.  I certainly spent many years looking and trying them out, it's all either toned way too easy, or is low-man like FFXIV's current.

 

8 people is not a raid.  Most of what made raiding fun for those of us who enjoy it came from doing it with your entire guild.  At least FFXIV has plans to introduce that in the future (Yoshida said that in the future we'll be able to enter 24 person content with premades and it would be tuned to such).

 

Difficulty-wise (single group), everything from Titan Hard ->Coil is far more difficult than endgame that is found in most MMORPG's today.  Not every fight is a gem, and overall it is much weaker than FFXI CoP->ToAU or even Vanguard's endgame circa APW/Overlands.  But that's a problem with the current generation of MMORPG's as a whole, not FFXIV alone.

 

Originally posted by Sengell

In my eyes convenience changes doesn't matter.

For me only one thing matters, so please tell me. How many people have beaten the game yet? If you answer nearly everyone who invested enough time, it's not worth the challenge. A mmo which makes everyone a winner by default, has no incentive to be played by me. Not because I am a great player, I'm far from it, but because I want to be rewarded for never giving up and constantly trying my best. In an environment where everyone wins I can't experience that. A mmo has to possess endgame conent which is incredible hard to beat, otherwise there are no dreams left. My 2cent as a former EQ2 raider.

Despite being in the game since launch, few groups on any server have beat Twintania.  Probably 5% of those doing coil weekly.

 

Most people can't beat even beat Titan hard, which is why some groups charge to carry people through (leading to gil buying etc.).  That is simply to get a relic weapon, the 2nd goal you have once you hit 50 (followed by Crystal tower, Extreme Primals, and Binding Coil of Bahamut).

 

 

But it is all single group content, it will be conquered far quicker than real 18+ person raids of the past.  You don't even need an endgame guild to do them and this means more people end up beating it.  Rather than fairly closed rosters who for the most part progress and learn together, you have pick up groups with experience who can feasibly carry 1-2 new randoms a week to get them their "win" as long as they aren't a liability.  Real raid progression is dead if/when it ever returns I'd be ecstatic and would likely move games if it still isn't present in FFXIV.

 

I also raided in EQ2, and never thought I would pine for it.  While really not very good compared to its predecessors, EQ2 was probably the last time I saw real progression (Vanguard is roughly the same time period, but went downhill first imo when they introduced POTA and level cap raise).

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  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 617

1/06/14 12:10:11 AM#36
Originally posted by Murugan

I also raided in EQ2, and never thought I would pine for it.  While really not very good compared to its predecessors, EQ2 was probably the last time I saw real progression (Vanguard is roughly the same time period, but went downhill first imo when they introduced POTA and level cap raise).

Out of curiosity, when's the last time you did progression raiding in WoW? I don't disagree with any particular part of your post, but you're talking like you're a hardcore raider, and I find it hard to believe that you don't find heroic progression in WoW more challenging and satisfying than what XIV offers. 

  mayanking

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/13
Posts: 111

1/06/14 12:24:15 AM#37
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by mayanking
the problem is the current market is almost ruined. sqaure enix has no idea how to handle the market. im on the cheapest server were me and 40 people in my fc wanted a large house yoshi said  medium would be 3X story so i gathered 5mill and some people gathered what they could.. Now its like do we wait for large or buy medium because of the benefits. everything in the market has gone down  to the cheapest the only way i see of legitly farming gold is accutaly buying shards bots farm and sell high when its high which is sad.. I'm not sure why sqaure thinks random people will all donate 99percent of there cash for a house its insane.

 

What a random example of a gil making scheme.  I can assure you that most people in-game are not "buying shards and reselling them", that's ridiculous.  If you are buying gil just say you are buying gil, I'm sure they won't track you down here.

 

The truth is that the prices of many things including food, crafted gear, and materials have gone down in price.  However this is a good thing because it equalizes the economies on all the servers.  No longer are people throwing around millions of gil just to avoid farming a few days of materials for themselves.  That was something the super rich did often before because they had an excess of gil and nothing to spend it on.

 

Now people want to save their gil to buy housing plots.  That along with the change to food (no longer wears off on death), increase in farming drops, and increased options for philosophy tombs (which reduced those bought material prices) all has lead to lower prices across the board.

 

But how about you stop looking it at in such a purely selfish way and consider the fact that MOST players in FFXIV are gil poor.  Your inflated prices pre-patch effectively priced them out of the market.  Many people did not bother to eat food, they did not bother to get crafted gear, in effect it was a state of:

"If you play casually, and don't manipulate market trends to make massive amounts of gil the player economy is largely out of your reach due to extreme prices".

 

There are still ways to make gil, just not the enormous gains from before because there is little being inflated by those with large amounts of gil overpaying for them.  As Yoshida pointed out, this is going to create a situation in two months or so where gil is of equal worth across all servers.  Then legacy can transfer to non-legacy without the concern of that impacting the new world's economy (especially with the current limits on transfers with the gil reduction etc.)

 

Most people won't buy houses for a month or longer, but I think most FC's will have a house before the next patch (which is when they will start actually giving minor effects and being more than fluff anyways).  But most FC's want it and are still saving for it which isn't a bad thing.  Especially with the Company Chest being fixed, it is nice to see donations come rolling in and a complete history of transactions.

 

If they had came out and said "These prices are set in stone" that would be reason to make a big deal out of how expensive it is, but because we know the prices will continue to drop it is within reach of anyone.

wootm8 buying gil? i simply said  Shards is the only market on my server which u can play and profit rapidly the prices range from 3-40 because of bots. i have bough literly 6k wind shards for 3gil cause of bots and sold them for 30each. Most people aren't going to buy a house because sqaure enix isn't telling us what benefits each house gets. I can go out and buy a medium right now but i honestly have no idea what the difference in terms of benefits aside from size will Large and medium be. There might be ways to make gill but the crafting nonstop all day nets about maybe max 100-300k a day on my server anyways The issue is just sqaure expects us to put 99 percent into housing. prices are just to exspensive and there excuse as to why is completely bs It wont stop me from playing because i enjoy the game but i don't see a reason to release content that 95percent of players can't enjoy untill the next patch. I wouldn't have this big of a issue if i knew 2 weeks in advance what the prices would be tho.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

1/06/14 10:58:50 AM#38
Originally posted by mayanking
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by mayanking
the problem is the current market is almost ruined. sqaure enix has no idea how to handle the market. im on the cheapest server were me and 40 people in my fc wanted a large house yoshi said  medium would be 3X story so i gathered 5mill and some people gathered what they could.. Now its like do we wait for large or buy medium because of the benefits. everything in the market has gone down  to the cheapest the only way i see of legitly farming gold is accutaly buying shards bots farm and sell high when its high which is sad.. I'm not sure why sqaure thinks random people will all donate 99percent of there cash for a house its insane.

 

What a random example of a gil making scheme.  I can assure you that most people in-game are not "buying shards and reselling them", that's ridiculous.  If you are buying gil just say you are buying gil, I'm sure they won't track you down here.

 

The truth is that the prices of many things including food, crafted gear, and materials have gone down in price.  However this is a good thing because it equalizes the economies on all the servers.  No longer are people throwing around millions of gil just to avoid farming a few days of materials for themselves.  That was something the super rich did often before because they had an excess of gil and nothing to spend it on.

 

Now people want to save their gil to buy housing plots.  That along with the change to food (no longer wears off on death), increase in farming drops, and increased options for philosophy tombs (which reduced those bought material prices) all has lead to lower prices across the board.

 

But how about you stop looking it at in such a purely selfish way and consider the fact that MOST players in FFXIV are gil poor.  Your inflated prices pre-patch effectively priced them out of the market.  Many people did not bother to eat food, they did not bother to get crafted gear, in effect it was a state of:

"If you play casually, and don't manipulate market trends to make massive amounts of gil the player economy is largely out of your reach due to extreme prices".

 

There are still ways to make gil, just not the enormous gains from before because there is little being inflated by those with large amounts of gil overpaying for them.  As Yoshida pointed out, this is going to create a situation in two months or so where gil is of equal worth across all servers.  Then legacy can transfer to non-legacy without the concern of that impacting the new world's economy (especially with the current limits on transfers with the gil reduction etc.)

 

Most people won't buy houses for a month or longer, but I think most FC's will have a house before the next patch (which is when they will start actually giving minor effects and being more than fluff anyways).  But most FC's want it and are still saving for it which isn't a bad thing.  Especially with the Company Chest being fixed, it is nice to see donations come rolling in and a complete history of transactions.

 

If they had came out and said "These prices are set in stone" that would be reason to make a big deal out of how expensive it is, but because we know the prices will continue to drop it is within reach of anyone.

wootm8 buying gil? i simply said  Shards is the only market on my server which u can play and profit rapidly the prices range from 3-40 because of bots. i have bough literly 6k wind shards for 3gil cause of bots and sold them for 30each. Most people aren't going to buy a house because sqaure enix isn't telling us what benefits each house gets. I can go out and buy a medium right now but i honestly have no idea what the difference in terms of benefits aside from size will Large and medium be. There might be ways to make gill but the crafting nonstop all day nets about maybe max 100-300k a day on my server anyways The issue is just sqaure expects us to put 99 percent into housing. prices are just to exspensive and there excuse as to why is completely bs It wont stop me from playing because i enjoy the game but i don't see a reason to release content that 95percent of players can't enjoy untill the next patch. I wouldn't have this big of a issue if i knew 2 weeks in advance what the prices would be tho.

 

If you are able to make 300k a day, and can already buy a medium house then you are among the richest players in the game.  Now there are superrich who have many many times your amount of gil, but the majority of players both have a small fraction of your wealth and your income.

 

Your "average" player, running roulette, and either other dungeons or their solo beast quests, and selling random items on the MW without spending hours farming is going to likely net only 5-20k a day.  Twenty people donating say 5k a day would give their FC 100k a day towards buying a house.  So that's about a month or two of saving in order to buy a house.  That's not quite the next patch, and that represents a saving effort requiring absolutely no actual "farming/crafting/gil making schemes".

 

There is far less wealth/income inequality today than there was at launch because of the changes in 2.1 and over time it will improve the server economies.  The people saying the economy is "broken" are just upset they can't make millions of gil with a couple hours effort by taking advantage of the laziness of the super rich.  You could argue that before "anyone" could get rich, but everyone didn't and most people as a result were turned off the player economy by your inflated prices.

 

We all wish we had saved up more when the gil was easy to come by, but for the average player the game's economy is far more accessible now.  That 5-20k they can earn just by doing content they would anyways not only keeps them fed, and able to purchase armor they want, but actually allows them to save.  Whereas before they would not eat food, not purchase anything, and struggle just to keep up with repair costs on their current armor.

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  NobleNerd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 469

Try not!Do or do notThere is no try.

1/06/14 11:07:05 AM#39
I will agree about the crafting. I just started in crafting recently, as my focus first was lvl 30 to get all the advance combat jobs. Crafting is about as important in this game as it is in WoW and that is bad. Compared to the importance of crafting in FFXI this is a huge failure. I have been leveling my crafts and gathering jobs, but have come to a point where I just don't care to do it anymore. Most, pretty much anything you want can be obtained without ever leveling a craft!
  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

1/06/14 11:19:28 AM#40
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Murugan

I also raided in EQ2, and never thought I would pine for it.  While really not very good compared to its predecessors, EQ2 was probably the last time I saw real progression (Vanguard is roughly the same time period, but went downhill first imo when they introduced POTA and level cap raise).

Out of curiosity, when's the last time you did progression raiding in WoW? I don't disagree with any particular part of your post, but you're talking like you're a hardcore raider, and I find it hard to believe that you don't find heroic progression in WoW more challenging and satisfying than what XIV offers. 

It's been years, I base that on people I know who have played WoW more recently, and they have quit so its purely anecdotal and probably biased though they are hardcore raiders (meaning they enjoy progression, not they are assholes).  If people enjoy WoW great, but it was never good raiding for me.  EQ2/Vanguard had a fraction of their raiding, and I'll even concede that for the most part that WoW fights have more gimmicks (so does FFXIV for that matter), but to me it was far better in those older model games as it was more of a team effort and less of a youtube tutorial, screaming children on voice chat dickwad fest that endgame has evolved into in recent years.

 

The proof of that to me, and you very well may disagree, is that endgame guilds are becoming less and less relevant to progression.  When pick up groups, armed with youtube strategies, gear checks, and an absolute lack of empathy/patience befitting your most stereotpyical MMORPG anti-social ubernerd can progress at the same rate as communities playing together for years it shows that cooperation and teamwork are no longer as large a part of raiding as they once were.  They have simply been replaced by tunnel visioned roles played according to a strict script, and that's not a challenge for me personally (maybe since I've been doing it so long) even if it is technically "less forgiving".

 

I'm sure for some people it's more fun today because of all that, but for me it is a huge let down from what made me passionate about MMORPG games in the first place.  FFXIV has more interplay between group members than WoW, and for that reason alone I find it superior but don't confuse that with me saying I'm 100% satisfied with the game's current endgame either because I'm far from it, I just am not ready to quit the genre entirely and there are few other options that are comparable.

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