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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why does every MMO try and hold my hand as if I were a child?

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162 posts found
  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

12/30/13 4:56:01 AM#101
Originally posted by MasterZedX

Tbh i don't know why threads like this are still created. We are the minority that know what "MMORPG's" use to be like,and "MMORPG's" which stands for "Massive Multi-player online role playing games" which are advertised for the masses. No one is going to last in a game where they don't know what the they're doing and we all know if players don't last  and the game doesn't thrive, dev's can't earn money.

 

It's pretty hard to make a game that'll be easy and yet challenging at the same time, the way tutorials have developed make it easy to understand but when things come easy it gets boring, and when things are hard many quit. 

Thing about when things get boring is after a while you come back. 

But then minecraft comes along. A pure sandbox with no direction. A perfect example of what they are talking about, and the exact opposite happens. People from 8-80 are playing it. A new genre is born.  Accessible on every platform. It's everything mmo makers claim they want with gameplay that mmo makers said no one wants.

 

 

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1606

12/30/13 5:08:49 AM#102

"Why does every MMO try and hold my hand as if I were a child?"

 

Easy: they target children.

 

1. they target a younger -future- generation, not the generation which usually lasts untill they have a serious relationship+job which makes them quit.

2. younger people are very prone to influence so it is much easier to draw money from those children and through those children get access to their parents' wallets.

 

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

12/30/13 5:46:43 AM#103
Originally posted by Muke

"Why does every MMO try and hold my hand as if I were a child?"

 

Easy: they target children.

 

1. they target a younger -future- generation, not the generation which usually lasts untill they have a serious relationship+job which makes them quit.

2. younger people are very prone to influence so it is much easier to draw money from those children and through those children get access to their parents' wallets.

 

I agree. Although I don't see the kids leaving minecraft to play progression quest.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2438

12/30/13 5:52:57 AM#104


Originally posted by Muke
"Why does every MMO try and hold my hand as if I were a child?

Easy: they target children.

 

1. they target a younger -future- generation, not the generation which usually lasts untill they have a serious relationship+job which makes them quit.

2. younger people are very prone to influence so it is much easier to draw money from those children and through those children get access to their parents' wallets.

 



Targeting children? When will we get rid of this fallacy?


They are targeting working adults that dont want to spend the 2 hours a night they are able to squeeze in between work, kids, spouse and whatever else just trying to find out where to go to do a quest.


Yeah, you can blame it on kids if it makes you feel better but the average age of all people that play video games is 37.

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5515

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

12/30/13 5:53:59 AM#105

I don't understand how some people take pride in playing games without proper tutorials. I find it odd. Do these people hate instruction manuals as well?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

12/30/13 6:15:47 AM#106
Originally posted by Quirhid

I don't understand how some people take pride in playing games without proper tutorials. I find it odd. Do these people hate instruction manuals as well?

What do you need instructions for?

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

12/30/13 6:24:47 AM#107
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by Muke
"Why does every MMO try and hold my hand as if I were a child?

 

Easy: they target children.

 

1. they target a younger -future- generation, not the generation which usually lasts untill they have a serious relationship+job which makes them quit.

2. younger people are very prone to influence so it is much easier to draw money from those children and through those children get access to their parents' wallets.

 



Targeting children? When will we get rid of this fallacy?

 


They are targeting working adults that dont want to spend the 2 hours a night they are able to squeeze in between work, kids, spouse and whatever else just trying to find out where to go to do a quest.


Yeah, you can blame it on kids if it makes you feel better but the average age of all people that play video games is 37.

Hmm, why not just make a moba ?

Or better yet, admit progression is the root of the problem. Those same people can play GTA5 and have a blast just driving around. If they don't progress they don't care.

An adult with no time, doesn't make them an idiot.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5515

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

12/30/13 6:31:29 AM#108
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Xiaoki
 

Hmm, why not just make a moba ?

Or better yet, admit progression is the root of the problem. Those same people can play GTA5 and have a blast just driving around. If they don't progress they don't care.

An adult with no time, doesn't make them an idiot.

No, but they have preference just like everyone else. And as such, progression is as addictive to them as it is for anyone else.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1158

12/30/13 6:53:23 AM#109
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by lindhsky

I agree with the open poster. Games are too easy nowadays.

 

 

As i have said, if you choose to play the latest shiny which is more of the same then you have no one else to blame but yourselves.

Why are you not playing Age Of Wulin which has probably the best PVP since UO, Why are you not playing Wurm Online or any of the other mmo's that don't hold your hand?

Sometimes i wonder if threads like these are just attention seeking threads because their are games out there that have the type of systems the op claims to like.

 

Because having challenging content is only part of the equation.

You have to also enjoy and be interested in the game that content is in to begin with.

For example, I've played Wurm Online, and I really dig what they're doing there. The game itself just doesn't interest me, though. 

The problem is that this tendency to dumb everything down is spreading across all games, in just about every genre.  It's pervasive. So, even if you find a game that you could enjoy for its setting, story, graphics, etc. etc, chances are it's going to be dumbed down and simplified. The experience of playing it a mindless endeavor that you basically snooze through. Check out this video which is basically mocking how the FPS genre has become dumbed down just as much.

 

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  deniter

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 604

12/30/13 7:05:10 AM#110

Also this..

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

12/30/13 7:43:18 AM#111
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Xiaoki
 

Hmm, why not just make a moba ?

Or better yet, admit progression is the root of the problem. Those same people can play GTA5 and have a blast just driving around. If they don't progress they don't care.

An adult with no time, doesn't make them an idiot.

No, but they have preference just like everyone else. And as such, progression is as addictive to them as it is for anyone else.

So people thinking they are progressing an artificially weak char is addictive, and that's the whole game? I don't know why people make fun of mmo players.

 

 

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5515

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

12/30/13 9:22:12 AM#112
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Xiaoki
 

Hmm, why not just make a moba ?

Or better yet, admit progression is the root of the problem. Those same people can play GTA5 and have a blast just driving around. If they don't progress they don't care.

An adult with no time, doesn't make them an idiot.

No, but they have preference just like everyone else. And as such, progression is as addictive to them as it is for anyone else.

So people thinking they are progressing an artificially weak char is addictive, and that's the whole game? I don't know why people make fun of mmo players.

You can trivialize anything to make it look silly.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  ET3D

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 171

12/30/13 9:28:41 AM#113
It's obvious that the games are holding your hand because they think you're hot, and it's a first step towards intimacy.
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

12/30/13 9:34:31 AM#114
In the last 10 years the only mmo's I've played with real challenge were Vanguard and LOTRO when it first launched.
  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2677

12/30/13 9:44:30 AM#115
Originally posted by Viper482
Originally posted by fivoroth
MMOs have always been easy. If you want challenging games which require skill, tactics and/or strategy, MMOs are not for you. MMOs are just mindless grind (which virtually takes 0 skill) to collect items and increase numbers on your spreadsheet...I mean character sheet. It's like a virtual world where people grind to dress up their barbies....characters!

....says the guy who thinks WoW was the first MMO.

Says the guy who makes wild assumptions just because it's convenient for him. WoW was not the first MMO I tried. EQ was piss easy and that came before WoW. The only difficult thing about that game is being able to bear the boredom while playing. Raids are the only thing that even remotely comes to requiring any kind of skill in most MMOs if you have the time to commit and put up with 20-60+ other people.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

12/30/13 10:02:12 AM#116
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Viper482
Originally posted by fivoroth
MMOs have always been easy. If you want challenging games which require skill, tactics and/or strategy, MMOs are not for you. MMOs are just mindless grind (which virtually takes 0 skill) to collect items and increase numbers on your spreadsheet...I mean character sheet. It's like a virtual world where people grind to dress up their barbies....characters!

....says the guy who thinks WoW was the first MMO.

Says the guy who makes wild assumptions just because it's convenient for him. WoW was not the first MMO I tried. EQ was piss easy and that came before WoW. The only difficult thing about that game is being able to bear the boredom while playing. Raids are the only thing that even remotely comes to requiring any kind of skill in most MMOs if you have the time to commit and put up with 20-60+ other people.

I'd have to disagree with you.  Everquest was very difficult.

 

There were no maps and no quests to guide you.  You had to go out and find the safe places to level up.  To this day if you go into one of the dungeons by yourself it's easy to get lost/killed.  I was just wandering around some zones in Kunark and couldn't find the zone points.  Even with the new maps they added sometimes I can't find things lol.  Zones weren't lined up in level range order.  You could go from a level 1-10 zone to a level 40-50 zone right next door.  There were often mobs like the giants in low level areas that were much higher than the rest of the mobs and would sneak up on you while you were resting to get your health back.

The level process was a lot different.  It's easier now because they increased the experience gain, removed the death penalty, and removed having to recover your items.  I remember playing a Ranger when Everquest first started.  The class was pretty difficult to play.  Especially if you tried to solo.  There were many times I would end up going backwards in progress from dying and losing experience.  Basically you had to be on your toes so to speak if you wanted to progress forward.  If you were playing in a group and they wiped they would pretty mad.  That means you had to know how to play your role and play it well or if you soloed you had to know what mobs were possible for your class if any.  Most caster oriented mobs would destroy you even if you were higher than them in level.  If you play a game like WoW or other MMOs now you don't have to worry about sucking.  There is nothing to lose and everyone can solo fine.  That's great if you want no challenge, but not so great if you do.

Personally I find exploration to be a lot of fun and frustration is what makes achieving something feel worthwhile.  If it's easy then it feels (is) hallow.  I'd rather not be the best in a hard game like EQ then to be on equal terms with everyone in a game like WoW.

  centkin

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 791

12/30/13 10:09:50 AM#117

The problem is being too strict with the items you can use and the quests you can gain through the leveling process.

 

Wow did this all the time.  If that quest npc would give you the silver ! quest then you might be able to have more of a challenge, and the quest reward might actually be good // gained at a time when you actually would want to use it as opposed to buying the drop from a mob 5 levels higher sold by someone else.

 

By simply allowing all quests to be gained 3 levels earlier in a game like WoW you can change the whole dynamic.

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1157

12/30/13 10:13:19 AM#118
Originally posted by Quirhid

I don't understand how some people take pride in playing games without proper tutorials. I find it odd. Do these people hate instruction manuals as well?

I would kill for an MMO that requires an instruction manual you actually have to read (well there's EVE I guess but besides that...)

 

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

12/30/13 10:14:26 AM#119
Originally posted by centkin

The problem is being too strict with the items you can use and the quests you can gain through the leveling process.

 

Wow did this all the time.  If that quest npc would give you the silver ! quest then you might be able to have more of a challenge, and the quest reward might actually be good // gained at a time when you actually would want to use it as opposed to buying the drop from a mob 5 levels higher sold by someone else.

 

By simply allowing all quests to be gained 3 levels earlier in a game like WoW you can change the whole dynamic.

I find Quests are generally pretty boring in MMORPGs.  They seem great at first when compared with having no direction or motive, but in reality they are meaningless and just string you along.  I doubt developers would give people quests that are higher then their level.  The whole point of quests has been to string people along an easy path that anyone can follow.  I doubt half the people read the quests.  Most likely just click accept and follow the GPS.  I can't blame then either.  Having played WoW I got bored of the quest dialogue fairly quickly and there are tun's of them.  There are so many quests that it's makes the quest start to feel hallow.

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1157

12/30/13 10:20:33 AM#120
Originally posted by FinalFikus
 

So people thinking they are progressing an artificially weak char is addictive, and that's the whole game? I don't know why people make fun of mmo players.

 

 

 

It's not just MMOs, Without some form of character progression (using "character" loosely) there is literally no point in playing most non-competitive video games. Story? Please, books and movies have way better stories than even the best game story.

 

Inherently fun mechanics that don't get boring after 5 minutes? These allegedly may exist but not in many games I've seen.

 

People generally  play video games to take a weak (something) and make it into a (stronger/bigger/more badass) (something) or to compete against other people or both at the same time. That's why even primitive arcade games had scores.

 

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