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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why do sub based MMOs still have box prices? Stupid and greedy

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121 posts found
  iridescence

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

 
OP  12/28/13 11:56:20 AM#81
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!

 

Your game is free only because some poor sucker is spending thousands of dollars a month on pixelated crap. Hopefully he is getting some enjoyment out of it and is not just a complete addict and hopefully he doesn't have kids that are doing without things to fill his need for shiny pixel ships. 

 

No game is free. The only question is who pays and how much. Same is true with most things in life.

 

 

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 5741

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

12/28/13 11:56:23 AM#82

I actually agree with OP. But I am just speculating and figuring that perhaps for every 10 people that buy the box maybe 50 would pay/play sub-only. Allot more people are willing to try a game at 15,-€$ then pay 60,-€$ even if it's included 30-day's free.

Besides agreeing with OP by no means do I mind paying for the box prices.

And I believe there also might be a technical aspect to box sales, meaning they sort of control the amount of people getting into the game.

  strangepowers

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 531

SCAD Animation-Film-F/X

12/28/13 11:58:43 AM#83


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Ice-Queen Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.
Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?  
Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.
That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?
Some people are fine figuring out ways to not pay taxes also... luckily, that's not everyone/
Well, if there is a legal way not to pay taxes, let me know. I am in. The only reason people pay taxes is because they are threaten with jail if they don't comply. I certainly am not doing it because i like to.

And what does that have to do with F2P games?

If a dev offers me a free game, i don't see a reason not to take advantage of it. I am sure if they are not happy about it, they won't be making it possible. It is not like i pirate the game.

 


I think thats great, you opt out of taxes and in turn should lose all privileges to drive on public roads and highways, all benefits of research and science, social security, medicare/cade and all military protection.

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17870

12/28/13 11:58:44 AM#84
Originally posted by Wighty
 

You commit to that movie when you go to the theater and pay the $10-$20 for the ticket to watch it you don't buy your ticket then walk out 30 minutes into the movie... You commit to a TV show if you know that you will watch or record each episode when they are on. You commit to a book when you start it with the goal of finishing it. I am not talking about marriage...

 

Take about yourself ... don't talk about me.

If a movie gets too bad in the middle, i walk out.

If a tv show gets too boring, i switch to another.

If a book gets too tedious, i stop reading.

Don't tell me you don't have any unfinished novels just because they are not as good as you thought. Of course i don't commit to entertainment.

  Jacxolope

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 424

12/28/13 12:01:34 PM#85
Originally posted by Reklaw

I actually agree with OP. But I am just speculating and figuring that perhaps for every 10 people that buy the box maybe 50 would pay/play sub-only. Allot more people are willing to try a game at 15,-€$ then pay 60,-€$ even if it's included 30-day's free.

Besides agreeing with OP by no means do I mind paying for the box prices.

And I believe there also might be a technical aspect to box sales, meaning they sort of control the amount of people getting into the game.

I dont mind the box sales but the only games I have played (and purchased) sight unseen was UO and EQ. I always wait for either a trial or a friend who has the game.

THIS is something I would like to see. Free trials from Day 1... It will never happen. I do not believe the hype (even if its true) and I do not trust others. I want to try the damn thing before putting down $60 or whatever.

No trial means no sale for me unless I have seen the game played somewhere (and not by a PR spin doctor) although I have used youtube reviews to purchase before as well.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

12/28/13 12:01:50 PM#86
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Ice-Queen
Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.

Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?

 

Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.

That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?

Some people are fine figuring out ways to not pay taxes also... luckily, that's not everyone/

Well, if there is a legal way not to pay taxes, let me know. I am in. The only reason people pay taxes is because they are threaten with jail if they don't comply. I certainly am not doing it because i like to.

And what does that have to do with F2P games?

If a dev offers me a free game, i don't see a reason not to take advantage of it. I am sure if they are not happy about it, they won't be making it possible. It is not like i pirate the game.

 

It's simple really. beyond self-interest there is community interest. That's why I pay taxes, because it's good for the infrastructure of my community, not because I'm frightened, lol.

 

How does it relate to F2P? Simple again: in a free market system goods are only produced if they're economically viable. If enough people adopt the attitude that they will freeload and not pay anything soon enough there won't be a market for that good and it will no longer be produced.

 

Now I care about MMOs because I enjoy them. I have a stake in MMOs being an economically viable product.

 

It's a longer term view.

  -aLpHa-

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 841

12/28/13 12:02:12 PM#87

Box prices are the return of investment for developing the game + profit, they do it because they can and it's the fastest way to see a profit return.

Paying 60$ upfront is better for them then trying to charge you for multiple months especially if they can't keep the initial player base, if they tried to do the sub only method it would take longer for a profit return, if they have a outside investor (which most have) they want to see a profit for their investment sooner then later.

Game company's are not charity's, don't be so naive.

Keep in mind the full box price of 60$ is only seen during a release of a new MMO, most of the games drop the prices considerably (down to the monthly sub fee) after the initial 2~ months depending on the popularity of the game.

  strangepowers

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 531

SCAD Animation-Film-F/X

12/28/13 12:03:26 PM#88


Originally posted by iridescence

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 
And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!  
Your game is free only because some poor sucker is spending thousands of dollars a month on pixelated crap. Hopefully he is getting some enjoyment out of it and is not just a complete addict and hopefully he doesn't have kids that are doing without things to fill his need for shiny pixel ships. 

 

No game is free. The only question is who pays and how much. Same is true with most things in life.

 

 




So true, I ride by some "poorer" neighborhoods on the way to class and always see these free cell phone booths advertising to the locals in that particular hood.

One time I yelled, "that sh@t ain't free!" and they got very angry saying it indeed was.

I countered the simple fact that our tax dollars fund that crap and they shut up real quick.

Just because you are not paying for it does not mean someone else is not.

http://business.time.com/2012/02/08/how-to-get-the-government-to-cover-your-cell-phone-bills/

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  Beelzebobbie

Elite Member

Joined: 1/03/09
Posts: 201

If DaoC was so fun why don't you just play it?

12/28/13 12:03:59 PM#89

I also feel that paying boxprice and a sub is greedy, maybe not always if a game is huge and demand lots of upgrades and patching then I can understand more atleast. 

When I played WOW it was worth every penny I spent on subs and expansions but today I feel diffrent.

You see today I have a huge family of gamers, Me, my girlfriend and three daughters who love gaming. And if you are five ppl in one house on one salery then you really don't want to buy ESO for example to five ppl thats 300 bucks just to get the games and play one month for "free".

You really don't want to pay 60 bucks on subs either, dudes I need my own sub to be able to play a game with subs or maybe som form of donation to keep going with computer upgrades. 

We play Guild wars 2 because it's a great game with lots of content and a big playerbase and a big reason is also because of there buisness model. 

Usually free to play games you have to pay even more then games with subs just the get the full experience and thats not ok, the only thing that is good with bad free to play games is that you can try them for free and see if you like them.

There should come more games with a buisness model like GW2, I think secret world has somewhat the same but otherwise I don't know of any.

If you have any hints on other games to try with the same kind of buisness model were you don't have to buy in a cash shop to play the game fully then please give me some examples so we can have more then one game to play.

// Beelze

ps It's great to always have a full group to do dungeons with in your own home :)

  Wighty

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 493

12/28/13 12:06:18 PM#90
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Wighty
 

You commit to that movie when you go to the theater and pay the $10-$20 for the ticket to watch it you don't buy your ticket then walk out 30 minutes into the movie... You commit to a TV show if you know that you will watch or record each episode when they are on. You commit to a book when you start it with the goal of finishing it. I am not talking about marriage...

 

Take about yourself ... don't talk about me.

If a movie gets too bad in the middle, i walk out.

If a tv show gets too boring, i switch to another.

If a book gets too tedious, i stop reading.

Don't tell me you don't have any unfinished novels just because they are not as good as you thought. Of course i don't commit to entertainment.

You must live an incredibly generic life... If there is one thing worth committing to it is entertainment, no matter what your poison may be. 

That or ADHD... nah... ADD you seem far from hyperactive.

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17870

12/28/13 12:06:32 PM#91
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!

 

Your game is free only because some poor sucker is spending thousands of dollars a month on pixelated crap. Hopefully he is getting some enjoyment out of it and is not just a complete addict and hopefully he doesn't have kids that are doing without things to fill his need for shiny pixel ships. 

 

No game is free. The only question is who pays and how much. Same is true with most things in life.

 

 

No game is free for everyone. It is free for me.

And that "poor sucker" does it voluntarily. No one is forcing him. Again, if it is free for me, is there a reason why i should not enjoy it?

  Searias

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 646

12/28/13 12:07:15 PM#92
Originally posted by iridescence

Well obviously it's an artifact of when most people still bought games in physical stores which companies convieniently never got rid of out of greed but in this era when a lot of games require no upfront investment I think demanding a box price and a sub is shooting themselves in the foot and driving away a lot of potential customers. 

 

Example I'm somewhat interested in playing ESO. If I just had to sub for a month and see if I liked it I wouldn't hesitate to do that but I probably will not be buying a $60 box on launch day just for a game which I will still have to keep paying for if I do like it. At least with Skyrim for example if I do plunk down the $60 on launch day and then am somewhat let down I can keep it on my hard drive and maybe it will grow on me.

 

 

There's no additional value in the box that justifies the additional price. It's only value is the "free" month sub code which could easily be sold in a much smaller package much cheaper if people don't want to buy online. Boxes are a total ripoff for the consumer and probably drive a lot of business away from these games.

 

 

You there is a high chance that the game will have open beta access and will eventually have trials, so you don't really have to spend $60 to try the game out :).

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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17870

12/28/13 12:07:59 PM#93
Originally posted by Wighty
 

You must live an incredibly generic life... If there is one thing worth committing to it is entertainment, no matter what your poison may be. 

That or ADHD... nah... ADD you seem far from hyperactive.

Don't force your values onto others. Entertainment is the least i would commit to. I suppose you have nothing left but personal attacks.

I pity those who need to feel superior by forcing their preferences on others.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17870

12/28/13 12:08:59 PM#94
Originally posted by strangepowers

 



Just because you are not paying for it does not mean someone else is not.

 

So?

I am more than happy if whales are voluntarily paying for my gaming.

  Jacxolope

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 424

12/28/13 12:09:40 PM#95
Originally posted by Beelzebobbie

I also feel that paying boxprice and a sub is greedy, maybe not always if a game is huge and demand lots of upgrades and patching then I can understand more atleast. 

When I played WOW it was worth every penny I spent on subs and expansions but today I feel diffrent.

You see today I have a huge family of gamers, Me, my girlfriend and three daughters who love gaming. And if you are five ppl in one house on one salery then you really don't want to buy ESO for example to five ppl thats 300 bucks just to get the games and play one month for "free".

You really don't want to pay 60 bucks on subs either, dudes I need my own sub to be able to play a game with subs or maybe som form of donation to keep going with computer upgrades. 

We play Guild wars 2 because it's a great game with lots of content and a big playerbase and a big reason is also because of there buisness model. 

Usually free to play games you have to pay even more then games with subs just the get the full experience and thats not ok, the only thing that is good with bad free to play games is that you can try them for free and see if you like them.

There should come more games with a buisness model like GW2, I think secret world has somewhat the same but otherwise I don't know of any.

If you have any hints on other games to try with the same kind of buisness model were you don't have to buy in a cash shop to play the game fully then please give me some examples so we can have more then one game to play.

// Beelze

ps It's great to always have a full group to do dungeons with in your own home :)

I had the a similar situation when my boys lived at home. Three subs werent too bad though and I made them work for it.

 

NOW heres the kicker. Now that they do not live at home and are struggling with getting started in life I am picking their subs up for a game I dont even play... I guess its cheaper than food lol.

  strangepowers

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 531

SCAD Animation-Film-F/X

12/28/13 12:10:08 PM#96


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by iridescence

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 
And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!  
Your game is free only because some poor sucker is spending thousands of dollars a month on pixelated crap. Hopefully he is getting some enjoyment out of it and is not just a complete addict and hopefully he doesn't have kids that are doing without things to fill his need for shiny pixel ships.    No game is free. The only question is who pays and how much. Same is true with most things in life.    
No game is free for everyone. It is free for me.

And that "poor sucker" does it voluntarily. No one is forcing him. Again, if it is free for me, is there a reason why i should not enjoy it?


I don't think anyone really cares about what you enjoy other than yourself. A little too self centered for my tastes.

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  strangepowers

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 531

SCAD Animation-Film-F/X

12/28/13 12:11:25 PM#97


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by strangepowers  


Just because you are not paying for it does not mean someone else is not.  
So?

I am more than happy if whales are voluntarily paying for my gaming.



Apparently the only thing that makes you happy is trying to validate your subjective point of view lol.

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 588

12/28/13 12:13:04 PM#98

Ok if you have some candy people want but what do you charge?

  1. 1 buyer for $100 = $100
  2. 10 buyers at $20 = $200
  3. 100 buyers at $1 = $100
Obviously as a seller there's only one choice #2. Not sure why people don't understand basic economics...
  Wighty

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 493

12/28/13 12:16:04 PM#99
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Wighty
 

You must live an incredibly generic life... If there is one thing worth committing to it is entertainment, no matter what your poison may be. 

That or ADHD... nah... ADD you seem far from hyperactive.

Don't force your values onto others. Entertainment is the least i would commit to. I suppose you have nothing left but personal attacks.

I pity those who need to feel superior by forcing their preferences on others.

 

Not an attack by any means... Just an observation, you simply say how you bounce from game to game to game, no commitment to anything that is typical of ADD.

You're just going to TOS me anyhow... and anyone else who you manages to dispute your singular way of thinking.

 

So continue to ride on the backs of others like a remora and continue to be a burden of gaming society where you are the welfare recipient and you smile the whole way through knowing that "it didn't cost you a cent" where had you did make any kind of vested interest into a particular product that gave you hours of enjoyment that product may be better funded to help pave the way for even more enjoyment to be had not only by yourself but the entire community.

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  -aLpHa-

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 841

12/28/13 12:19:07 PM#100


Originally posted by donpopuki
Ok if you have some candy people want but what do you charge? [*] 1 buyer for $100 = $100 [*] 10 buyers at $20 = $200
100 buyers at $1 = $100
Obviously as a seller there's only one choice #2. Not sure why people don't understand basic economics...

You don't seem to understand basic economics because what you did there was nothing more then basic arithmetic.

These number mean nothing without a proper context.

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