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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Accept it..

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154 posts found
  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

12/25/13 5:04:41 PM#21
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Distopia

Meanwhile in reality people realize their "preferences" aren't the defining factor in quality.

Nor is popularity.  People frequently have proven they don't always recognize quality nor know what is good for them. 

Fortunately some of us do so it's covered

It's funny actually because I've met food connoisseurs, I've met wine connoisseurs, I've also met beer connoisseurs. Two types of people I've never met are the games or music equivalent. It's really rare for me to see what I'd view as a person who knows a lot about what goes into making a good game. I include myself in with those who don't.

I for example like two very opposing designs, story infused questing with full on dialogue, vo and cutscenes, I am also a big fan of sandbox oriented freedom.

The former is what many view as detrimental to the latter. I on the other hand feel they each infuse the other with meaning. I feel a sandbox without a good story element is nothing but a design tool you can play in. I feel a good story without a world is a wasted effort. Some might even agree with me here, but I'd bet most actual designers/developers don't.

Because they know what goes into making these things, and what works with what design. Not to mention what creates too much bloat in design. Difficulty is another factor, read up on the WItcher 3 to know what I mean there. In short, they had a lot of trouble creating a good design to tell stories, within the giant world they wanted to create.

In most other cases, they want the story to take center stage and be the focus, if that's their focus as designers. They want the world to simulate life if the latter is their main goal. Life is chaos, it follows no script.

What does anything I said have to do with quality? Zipp. It's all preference. What purpose did it serve to this discussion or any particular games discussion forum? Zipp... It's all what I'd like to see, not what something offers, my understanding of games design, my opinion of what devs goals are. Not one thing said above was more than more hot-air unless it's in a general discussion forum about those things.

What's my overall point? This is a typical post you see within the games forums listed here, it has nothing to do with the actual game, it's all wants and desires. And usually says nothing more than...WHy wasn't this game like I said above? I know what makes a good game!

TL-DR?

The op is right.

 

The op is not even remotely right.  Accepting the status quo when you aren't happy with it is just about the dumbest thing anyone can do with their lives.  What's scary is that some of you roll over so easily and just blindly accept things, believing you can't affect change.  I'm glad my brain isn't wired that way.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3542

12/25/13 5:14:17 PM#22
Originally posted by MindTrigger
 

The op is not even remotely right.  Accepting the status quo when you aren't happy with it is just about the dumbest thing anyone can do with their lives.  What's scary is that some of you roll over so easily and just blindly accept things, believing you can't affect change.  I'm glad my brain isn't wired that way.

If someone is not happy with their current entertainment choice, there are plenty of other entertainment choices.

If I don't like Jazz and I'm the minority, I don't try to change other people's preference in music.

Why would I do the same for a video game?

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/25/13 5:16:02 PM#23
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Distopia

Meanwhile in reality people realize their "preferences" aren't the defining factor in quality.

Nor is popularity.  People frequently have proven they don't always recognize quality nor know what is good for them. 

Fortunately some of us do so it's covered

It's funny actually because I've met food connoisseurs, I've met wine connoisseurs, I've also met beer connoisseurs. Two types of people I've never met are the games or music equivalent. It's really rare for me to see what I'd view as a person who knows a lot about what goes into making a good game. I include myself in with those who don't.

I for example like two very opposing designs, story infused questing with full on dialogue, vo and cutscenes, I am also a big fan of sandbox oriented freedom.

The former is what many view as detrimental to the latter. I on the other hand feel they each infuse the other with meaning. I feel a sandbox without a good story element is nothing but a design tool you can play in. I feel a good story without a world is a wasted effort. Some might even agree with me here, but I'd bet most actual designers/developers don't.

Because they know what goes into making these things, and what works with what design. Not to mention what creates too much bloat in design. Difficulty is another factor, read up on the WItcher 3 to know what I mean there. In short, they had a lot of trouble creating a good design to tell stories, within the giant world they wanted to create.

In most other cases, they want the story to take center stage and be the focus, if that's their focus as designers. They want the world to simulate life if the latter is their main goal. Life is chaos, it follows no script.

What does anything I said have to do with quality? Zipp. It's all preference. What purpose did it serve to this discussion or any particular games discussion forum? Zipp... It's all what I'd like to see, not what something offers, my understanding of games design, my opinion of what devs goals are. Not one thing said above was more than more hot-air unless it's in a general discussion forum about those things.

What's my overall point? This is a typical post you see within the games forums listed here, it has nothing to do with the actual game, it's all wants and desires. And usually says nothing more than...WHy wasn't this game like I said above? I know what makes a good game!

TL-DR?

The op is right.

 

The op is not even remotely right.  Accepting the status quo when you aren't happy with it is just about the dumbest thing anyone can do with their lives.  What's scary is that some of you roll over so easily and just blindly accept things, believing you can't affect change.  I'm glad my brain isn't wired that way.

What do you mean? I said nothing about giving in nor did the OP. It's more a matter of (to state the cliche) fighting the fight in the right way. You'd have to read my post to get what I mean by that.

I simply don't play, or add to the discussion of games I don't like. That's the real point here, which says nothing of giving in. I can write to my hearts content in the Pub about what systems I like and which I don't, and it's typically a lot more productive in the way of discussion. As you're not clogging up some games forums talking about stuff that has nothing to do with it.

It's actually laughable if you're trying to pretend the people doing this in most games forums are doing it to be productive. Most of it is nothing but people scouring the live feed looking for forum PVP.

In short you're way off base.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17114

12/25/13 5:33:53 PM#24
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..

I kind of think that's ok. 

Oh, I agree that these games have to be taken for what they are to enjoy them but if one can't take them for what they are (and no reason why they should) the I think moving on to other past times is completely acceptable.

  g0m0rrah

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 211

12/25/13 6:11:14 PM#25
I believe that what this topic really comes down to is criticism. Some people see the value in it and some do not. With games its easy to say "just accept the fact that this games not for you" due to the fact that games are not really that important in the scheme of things. Games are a very subjective experience and I believe that critiquing them is much in the same vein as any other form of entertainment reviewing. The problem is that we have different mentalities clashing. Some people see the value in criticism and some don't. My question is if you do not see the value of criticism then wtf are you on an mmorpg review website...
  StarI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 806

12/25/13 6:17:12 PM#26
Originally posted by MindTrigger 

Thank goodness some humans don't think like you people do.  If we all did, we wouldn't have progressed as a species at all, because we would be sitting around in caves "accepting it".  Sorry, I wholeheartedly disagree with *anyone* who believes the status quo is good enough.  By not "accepting it" and not giving companies our money, we are slowly affecting change.  It sucks, but it is what must be done.  

 

 

Some people seem to be slightly missing the point. Ofcourse we wouldn't get far without critical thinking, that's not the point tho...

One thing is saying out loud how this and that is bad about certain game/games, and another thing is expressing dissatisfaction WHILE continuously throwing money at the same stuff that comes out. Far too many people do this and that is the reason where we are.

 

In this sense OP is very right that it's pointless to cry about the state of MMOs, as long as you refuse to learn to take 20 min to research about a game before pressing the Buy button and have enaugh self control (addiction is a bitch ;) )to not throw money at potential and ideas, it's not only pointless but quite counter-productive as well.

  jazz.be

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 780

12/25/13 6:18:23 PM#27
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..

If I didn't know better I'd think you're confusing games with love of your life :D

  Jemcrystal

Elite Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1317

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

12/25/13 9:27:37 PM#28

 

Cut that shit out right now!  That don't lead to nothin but change!

 

http://podbay.fm/show/536258179

  Lawlmonster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 944

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

12/25/13 9:31:49 PM#29
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

 

Cut that shit out right now!  That don't lead to nothin but change!

 

/thread

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4588

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/25/13 9:31:52 PM#30
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

 

Cut that shit out right now!  That don't lead to nothin but change!

 

change ruined WoW.

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2338

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

12/25/13 11:49:44 PM#31
Is this the bullshit they you in school now?  "Accept things as they are because you don't have the power to change them".  I weep for the future.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2563

12/25/13 11:56:28 PM#32
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..

 lol that's not true.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2635

12/26/13 12:02:29 AM#33

If you buy or play a game, why shouldn't you give feedback?   Saying you don't like something can change things.  Meditating looking at a spellbook in EQ, making instances of bosses that are locked down by 1-2 guilds in EQ, getting killed in UO (you get a non-pvp world)...

 

If everyone just shut up and had a love fest, these forums would be dead, because everyone would agree on everything, even if they didn't, they wouldn't want to be that guy that didn't 'accept it'.

 

People post and ask questions, people respond, but somehow they shouldn't if they don't think everything is bliss and wonderful?

 

Things that can't change, or will never change in a game, yeah it's ok to mention it, but to expect SWTOR to get a new engine or something isn't going to happen...I can see how railing against that is pointless, but if you must, go for it, isn't going to ruin my day.

 

I think I will just keep doing what I am doing, wherever it falls on the spectrum of acceptance.

 

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5547

12/26/13 12:11:46 AM#34

Accept it...They will give you a game and you should give them your money because it's a game and.... well... you should accept it... wait... right? Guys? I feel uncomfortable.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  LauraFrost

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 91

12/26/13 12:41:26 AM#35
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..

Accept it eh?

You know a good analogy to the MMORPG situation? (and this will never be understood by anyone who started playing MMORPGs post 2003)

It's like you starting to go to a burger joint you really like. The place started to slowly turn into a candy store until one day it was nothing but candy. Then the kids who started to go there to buy candy look at the people outside complaining that they want burgers and say "If you don't accept this candy store then you will never be happy!".

These kids have no idea that these people don't want a Candy Store to sell Burgers but actually wish if another Burger Joint would be established somewhere else (even in a booth in an alley).

 

I've always said it before; MMORPG "genre" was hijacked and we (the original target audience) will NEVER see it coming back. Instead, maybe one day a developer will create a new genre (call it World Role Playing Experience WRPE; which is what MMORPGs should be) and keep this retarded "MMORPG" formula going for those ~100 million target audience of dimwits since they think it's "nice and dandy". Win/Win situation.

 

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2436

12/26/13 12:44:37 AM#36


Originally posted by Robokapp
change ruined WoW.

Ruined? According to who? You?


Do you decide the standard for quality for everyone? Because there are a lot of people that do not think that WoW has been ruined.


Perhaps you should just accept WoW for what it is and accept that there are a lot of people that accept WoW for what it is and like it.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19496

12/26/13 12:48:28 AM#37
Originally posted by LauraFrost
 

Accept it eh?

You know a good analogy to the MMORPG situation? (and this will never be understood by anyone who started playing MMORPGs post 2003)

It's like you starting to go to a burger joint you really like. The place started to slowly turn into a candy store until one day it was nothing but candy. Then the kids who started to go there to buy candy look at the people outside complaining that they want burgers and say "If you don't accept this candy store then you will never be happy!".

These kids have no idea that these people don't want a Candy Store to sell Burgers but actually wish if another Burger Joint would be established somewhere else (even in a booth in an alley).

 


 

And the kid would be right.

If you don't want a candy store, and there is none ... there is really nothing you can do, but to start your own burger joint.

Or .. you can be miserable. Your choice.

  Jeauseoff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/06
Posts: 35

12/26/13 12:55:17 AM#38

  Another way to put the OPs statement:  If you fire up Super Mario Brothers and expect it to play like Halo - you're gonna have a bad time.  Accepting an MMO for what it is has nothing to do with accepting the whole genre's shortcomings.  Your expectations of a game, and the game as it exists are not going to match up.  Until you are developing the game, it's unreasonable to think those expectations will ever match - so why are people complaining so much instead of trying to affect actual change?

  It's much easier to complain on the internet than to become a game developer right?  Well if career in game development isn't possible for you, what other recourse do you have?  Easy-peezy: Step 1)  Stop buying / paying for games you don't like AND stop complaining about them, (you have to be able to do both.)  Step 2)  Cite the examples of games / game mechanics you do enjoy, (and WHY!  Feedback about ANYTHING, without substantiating it is useless to everyone...) - put more energy and focusing on the games and mechanics you like and sharing that on forums instead of spewing vitrol, hate, and discontent and your opinion may actually be taken more seriously by people.  You may even begin to gather allies to your cause.

  No one gives a damn about some nerd-raging troll hating on Metroid cause it 'sucks' compared to Call of Duty.  Perpetuating negativity yields no positive results.  Give some positive reinforcement a try with half as much effort as is put into bashing a game and you'll be surprised by how much better the state of things can get.

  Arthasm

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 663

12/26/13 1:10:16 AM#39
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..

this is why we are getting so many underdeveloped, limited, unpolished, boring, and generic mmorpgs for a while now... because we are accepting them for what they are and blindly supporting them with our wallets telling the company they did an amazing job.... when they clearly did not.

Someone was faster and with same thing in my mind. True.

When people stop accepting shit and stop feeding devs with money for fail, maybe we'll get at least some quality worth MMO. Most of cash grabbers will gave up, but those who want to produce MMO will put finger on the head and make something worth playing and paying. Until then, enjoy shit games everywhere and QQ on forums how your game sucks.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2635

12/26/13 1:11:27 AM#40
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by Robokapp
change ruined WoW.


Ruined? According to who? You?

 


Do you decide the standard for quality for everyone? Because there are a lot of people that do not think that WoW has been ruined.


Perhaps you should just accept WoW for what it is and accept that there are a lot of people that accept WoW for what it is and like it.

 

I don't play it, but subs have gone down about 50% in the last few years, so someone isn't thrilled with the change I would guess.

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