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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » But this is Sony

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86 posts found
  Heretique

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/02/07
Posts: 955

Most of my posts get deleted.

12/22/13 11:30:22 AM#41

I'd like to quote the screeching Chester Bennington;

 "In the end it doesn't even matter"

Strong words, strong words. Game will be F2P.

Originally posted by salsa41
are you have problem ?

  User Deleted
12/22/13 11:35:09 AM#42
Originally posted by jyoung2k

I came off harsh when I started this thread, no excuse. I was simply shocked by the SOE love in other threads and I couldn't understand where it was coming from. I wanted to know quite simply why they were given so much credit when a company like Bethusda  Softworks is being trashed.

 

They are being given credit for what has been shown on this project and the plans they have laid out for Everquest Next.  Bethesda (or more specifically Zenimax) is getting trashed because of the quality of that specific product and the information they have released. 

Are SoE perfect? Nope. Do they have good games? Yep.

EQ, EQ2 and DCUO have more character than Rift, TERA or any of the billion WoW clones could ever have, so I am quite happy to give them the benefit of the doubt and make an informed decision on the game closer to release.

If you don't trust Sony, then don't follow the game or play it. If you don't like seeing hype and people excited for new MMOs then you probably shouldn't bother visiting this site.

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 764

12/22/13 11:38:15 AM#43
Originally posted by jyoung2k

My intentions were a little more straight forward. If you have a friend who borrows money from you on a promise. He never repays that money and he always has an excuse why its not his fault he cant pay you back. Sooner or later you stop loaning him money, he can still be your friend but you know his promises aren't worth anything.

Thats what SOE is for me, I cant hate them, i played Eq1 for years good times and good memories. I have had fun with them but they suck when it comes to paying off when/what they promise. They have done more harm than good when it comes to the final impression of how they run their company (IMO).

I came off harsh when I started this thread, no excuse. I was simply shocked by the SOE love in other threads and I couldn't understand where it was coming from. I wanted to know quite simply why they were given so much credit when a company like Bethusda  Softworks is being trashed.

Your friend could also get a job or win the lottery and pay you back and even throw in some interest.

The title is "But this is Sony" and you are correct. Sony has been doing well lately, PS4 looks great and the company seems to be listening to the fans for once. SOE has also been doing well, PS2 is a great game and EQ/EQ2 seem to be doing well for being so old. Still releasing expansions that customers are enjoying. Maybe they are starting to pay people back?

We all have had different experiences with companies and I can't dislike them because they've never done anything to me personally. I might not agree with all their decisions, but I'm playing in their world.

Not sure where you are seeing "SOE love" around here. Most seem to either hate them or are like me and simply don't care. Not many SOE cheerleaders. Being excited for EQN doesn't mean I want to have SOE's babies. I dislike many companies for whatever reason, doesn't mean I don't think they produce good products or even own them myself. World is funny like that.

Where is Bethusda being trashed and for what? TESO? Game looks terrible and Zenimax is to blame for the most part since they are the developers. I'm also not a ES fan so my opinion is of little value, but I sure as heck don't go to TESO forums/sites and go on and on about why I don't like the game or company behind it. I don't have that much free time to waste.

 

  User Deleted
12/22/13 11:39:14 AM#44
Originally posted by Allein

I don't blindly have faith in companies or their products. I take everything said by devs/suits as hype and that their version of reality might not be what I experience.

With that said, I also have eyes and almost 20 years of online gaming experience and can make judgments with my own little noggin. 

What SOE has done in the past is of little concern to me. EQ and SWG were both great games. Outside influences and the market are what happened to most of SOE products. I highly doubt any company ever goes "hey we are doing great, lets totally screw up our product and see if we get more customers." It is usually the complete opposite.

Next is a new game(s) and so far looks to be the best thing coming out in the mmo world for a while. Few independents look interesting (Pathfinder, Camelot Unchained) but they are far from being fully fleshed out mmos.

I purchased a founder's pack and will take part in alpha and beyond. I'll give my input and will see what SOE has up their sleeves. Since the reveal, they have been honest and followed through with what they have said.

Smedly is a suit. I see him as the Balmer of SOE. He should come with a PR warning label "anything said by me may not be the whole truth." I've never paid him much attention. No clue what he was thinking when he said we'd have something in our hands by the end of the year. Either he was confused or misspoke, either way it doesn't change how I feel. He also isn't working on EQN.

I'm surprised so many people waste their time on forums for games they seem to have no interest in. Don't like SOE or EQN, why bother those that do? Plenty of other games out and coming out to go talk about instead. Makes no sense honestly. The fact that so many of you visit here shows me that you either aren't enjoying what is already out and or do have so glimmer of hope left that SOE won't screw it up (in your eyes) and aren't really giving up just yet.

I'm excited because I enjoyed EQ for years and would like to experience something that hasn't been done in mmos to the level that they appear to be attempting. Companies can learn from their past mistakes and improve. Allowing players in on the ground floor is a great step in the right direction.

Bravo Sir. A voice of reason.

  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 814

12/22/13 12:05:28 PM#45

SoE bashers might be the lowest rung in the mmorpg player ladder

If you don't even realize or acknowledge that SoE couldn't undo the NGE then you are either too stupid or too biased to try to tell other people what to do.  

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 685

12/22/13 12:06:46 PM#46

No company is perfect. They all have made great moves and large missteps.

Until the product is out in the open, there is no sense in making pessimistic judgments that are fixated on the past.

Do you know for a fact that EQN will fail? You don't. Do you know it will succeed? Who knows, maybe it will be the long-awaited Wow killer.

Maybe SOE has learned from their mistakes. But the point is only Time will tell.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1869

WoWWARCoh/vSWGEveProject entropia

12/22/13 1:09:26 PM#47
Originally posted by jyoung2k

Remember this is the company:

  • 1: that nickle and dimed people to death IN DC Universe (after saying it would always be a subscription)
  • 2: killed SWG with NGE and then refused to roll it back even as subscriptions died by 1000's a day
  • 3: mismanaged security and then treated us all like we were stupid while they took months to fix it
  • 4: ignored devs when they said that eq2 wasn't going to be "awesome"

 

 

1: But since they have done some massive work to make the game in to a very fun game that now also looks the part (if you have a PC or a PS4) and the nickel and diming is not even close to as bad a some people make it sound like. With a sub you are pretty much covered for anything you need.

2: I have said it before and i will say it again. NGE was needed. The class system in SWG was broken beyond repair, both as a leveling mechanic and a game play mechanic. Now i am not going to say NGE was implemented in a way that makes any good dang sense and it had most people questioning if there ever was a loving deity. But with out it the game would have died any way... They had no chance to balance the content vs the player. As for doing a roll-back... Well i am pretty sure that by the time it was all said and done it was way to late to do that.

3: Well so did Adobe so i am not going to hold that against them, and we got a fairly nice compensation for it.  (unlike when Adobe lost ALL my info and part of the keys needed to decrypt it... And all we got was a polite letter asking is to not sue them if someone robbed our bank account.. No discount code... no free month of creative cloud... Nada. )

4: Ok i´l give you that one... Can´t say i remeber anyone i know being excited for EQ2

 

But as it stands right now i´d say i will put my trust in them. DCUO is in a really good spot (especially as the the last and next patch will fix some endgame issues.) Planetside 2 is really fun and they continue to sort of support their older games (apart from PS1... that one is dead) but you also have to be able to sift the facts from the hype. So take the games at face value, what you can see.Leave the rest behind.

This have been a good conversation

  alyndale

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 729

Because something is happening hereYou just don't understandDo you Mr. Jones?~Bob Dylan-1965~

12/22/13 1:10:46 PM#48
Originally posted by jyoung2k
Originally posted by alyndale

Now, I suppose the OP of this thread as OP's of threads of this nature to come and the OP's of past threads that warn us of impending doom and gloom because THEY "feel" there is something sneaky or unscrupulous going on behind us poor, poor consumer/gamers out there. Now really...I'm way over this "discussion"

My intentions were a little more straight forward. If you have a friend who borrows money from you on a promise. He never repays that money and he always has an excuse why its not his fault he cant pay you back. Sooner or later you stop loaning him money, he can still be your friend but you know his promises aren't worth anything.

Thats what SOE is for me, I cant hate them, i played Eq1 for years good times and good memories. I have had fun with them but they suck when it comes to paying off when/what they promise. They have done more harm than good when it comes to the final impression of how they run their company (IMO).

I came off harsh when I started this thread, no excuse. I was simply shocked by the SOE love in other threads and I couldn't understand where it was coming from. I wanted to know quite simply why they were given so much credit when a company like Bethusda  Softworks is being trashed.

 

I should say that you did much better here after you had some time to breath a little bit. Look, there probably isn't a gaming company in business today that hasn't pissed someone off because of they way they "do business". W hat I'm hoping we can agree on here is that we can ALL get past this because truly, no ones life was changed in any way deviously or with malice.

I see all too many threads here that throw logic to the wind. It seems we have to find fault or some conspiratorial motives with companies that make huge profits off the backs of us poor consumer/gamer types.

SoE doesn't bother me. Nor does Blizzard or NC Soft or the "infamous" EA. I really could care two buckets full of cow spit whether the CEO's of these companies have greed dreams of more and more profits.

I play WoW. EQ 2, Rift, Lineage 2, GW 2 because I choose to, not because I need to read these or any other gaming forums to make my mind up for me!

In conclusion, I suppose we can blow off steam, but maybe what we really need to do is step back and ask is a game worth all this vitriol? Do mmo's really affect us in such ways as to bring forth so much hatred? Really?

God bless us all and forgive...

Alyn

Logic will get you from A to B.Imagination will take you everywhere.
Albert Einstein

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

12/22/13 6:23:12 PM#49

I have critique and skepticism too, but not because it is SOE. SOE made SWG, EQ and a lot of MMOs which worked well. Despite some bad decisions. So *shrug*

SOE is prolly THE most experienced MMO developer out there, in terms of numbers. And it'd good to hear they really dare to make some stuff different, at least so far we know. If I critizise stuff, then I critizise details, not because it's SOE.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Buttdart

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/12
Posts: 34

12/22/13 6:30:48 PM#50

OP makes all valid points. I've played SOE games since SWG and that whole fiasco.

Smedley is an anomaly, truly. Usually when a company has bad management and something as terrible as with what happened with SWG happens, there's a big shakeup of those who were responsible for the decisions. Smedley has had countless megafails in SOE over the past decade, and yet he is still there, still blowing hot air, and once again, about to rope everyone with the latest hype methods and the latest gimmicky techniques to squeeze a dime.

The best thing I heard about Smedley recently was his praise of EVE; and that's all Smedley can do is praise a game like EVE, because he hasn't had anything that good on his hands since Pre-NGE SWG.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15144

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/22/13 6:35:25 PM#51
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

Remember when Mark Jacobs said "We're going to prove blizzard isn't the only one that can make a good game." A few years later WoW still has millions and Warhammer is closing down.

Sure but what does that have to do with Sony?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

12/22/13 7:08:43 PM#52
Originally posted by Buttdart

OP makes all valid points. I've played SOE games since SWG and that whole fiasco.

Smedley is an anomaly, truly. Usually when a company has bad management and something as terrible as with what happened with SWG happens, there's a big shakeup of those who were responsible for the decisions. Smedley has had countless megafails in SOE over the past decade, and yet he is still there, still blowing hot air, and once again, about to rope everyone with the latest hype methods and the latest gimmicky techniques to squeeze a dime.

The best thing I heard about Smedley recently was his praise of EVE; and that's all Smedley can do is praise a game like EVE, because he hasn't had anything that good on his hands since Pre-NGE SWG.

In 10 years, when EQ:N gets it's 7th Expansion Pack you gonna eat those words. ;)

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1803

12/22/13 9:50:35 PM#53

Sony has nothing to do with SoE, just saying.

The problem SoE has right now is that they're barely surviving, they had massive layoffs, and their more profitable games have 4 or less fulltime developers.

EQNext is their last chance at sustainability, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if Sony shuts them down, they're barely running a proft I heard.

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2294

World > Quest Progression

12/23/13 3:41:12 AM#54
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Sony has nothing to do with SoE, just saying.

The problem SoE has right now is that they're barely surviving, they had massive layoffs, and their more profitable games have 4 or less fulltime developers.

EQNext is their last chance at sustainability, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if Sony shuts them down, they're barely running a proft I heard.

 

Any links to the blue stuff? We know that SoE had layoffs in August but it was an unknown amount.  Trion had layoffs May of this year, CCP did in '11 and this year and Blizzard in 2012 had 600 layoffs so it's unfortunately not uncommon to "restructure" based upon the market.

 

I will agree that Landmark and Next need to be a success for SoE to thrive as I'm sure scrapping the last two iterations has come with a price tag.  Seems a little far fetched that they are barely surviving though, unless you have info the rest of us don't.  I was interested so I did some digging.  The closest info I could find that seemed legit was from insideview but I'm not sure how reputable they are.  Some cross references:

 

Blizzard - 1,100M revenue

Trion - 50M revenue, 200 employees

SoE - 362M revenue, 600 employees

CCP - 37M revenue, 500 employees

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1803

12/23/13 3:49:45 AM#55
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Sony has nothing to do with SoE, just saying.

The problem SoE has right now is that they're barely surviving, they had massive layoffs, and their more profitable games have 4 or less fulltime developers.

EQNext is their last chance at sustainability, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if Sony shuts them down, they're barely running a proft I heard.

 

Any links to the blue stuff? We know that SoE had layoffs in August but it was an unknown amount.  Blizzard in 2012 had 600 layoffs so it's unfortunately not uncommon to "restructure" based upon the market.

 

I will agree that Landmark and Next need to be a success for SoE to thrive as I'm sure scrapping the last two iterations has come with a price tag.  Seems a little far fetched that they are barely surviving though, unless you have info the rest of us don't.  I was interested so I did some digging.  The closest info I could find that seemed legit was from insideview but I'm not sure how reputable they are.  Some cross references:

 

Blizzard - 1,100M revenue

Trion - 50M revenue, 200 employees

SoE - 362M revenue, 600 employees

CCP - 37M revenue, 500 employees

EQ and EQ2 had maybe 4 active developers each when I stopped playing those games, there might have been a few more that came and went, and some partime workers, all I know is that the staffing of SoE is extremely low.

I don't know the exact numbers, maybe there were 4 developers, maybe 8, all I know is, during beta events and developer events, you could count the active developers on one hand most of the time. (there were some that came and went, but they just stayed for a couple of days to do some art resources or creation of zones).

I mean they just fired Brad McQuaid, the maker of Everquest last month, because they couldn't pay him anymore.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1803

12/23/13 3:53:04 AM#56
Originally posted by Aelious

SoE - 362M revenue, 600 employees

 

where is that number from anyway, would be handy to have a timestamp on it

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

12/23/13 4:21:14 AM#57
SOE gave me MORE years of fun in MMOs than ALL OTHER companies and MMos together! I played 4 years SWG and 5 years EQ2, and those years were great. Yes, that was a long time ago. But I truly wish them luck with EQ:N, also for our own sake of finally seeing something new and fresh.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2294

World > Quest Progression

12/23/13 4:32:15 AM#58
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Sony has nothing to do with SoE, just saying.

The problem SoE has right now is that they're barely surviving, they had massive layoffs, and their more profitable games have 4 or less fulltime developers.

EQNext is their last chance at sustainability, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if Sony shuts them down, they're barely running a proft I heard.

 

Any links to the blue stuff? We know that SoE had layoffs in August but it was an unknown amount.  Blizzard in 2012 had 600 layoffs so it's unfortunately not uncommon to "restructure" based upon the market.

 

I will agree that Landmark and Next need to be a success for SoE to thrive as I'm sure scrapping the last two iterations has come with a price tag.  Seems a little far fetched that they are barely surviving though, unless you have info the rest of us don't.  I was interested so I did some digging.  The closest info I could find that seemed legit was from insideview but I'm not sure how reputable they are.  Some cross references:

 

Blizzard - 1,100M revenue

Trion - 50M revenue, 200 employees

SoE - 362M revenue, 600 employees

CCP - 37M revenue, 500 employees

EQ and EQ2 had maybe 4 active developers each when I stopped playing those games, there might have been a few more that came and went, and some partime workers, all I know is that the staffing of SoE is extremely low.

I don't know the exact numbers, maybe there were 4 developers, maybe 8, all I know is, during beta events and developer events, you could count the active developers on one hand most of the time. (there were some that came and went, but they just stayed for a couple of days to do some art resources or creation of zones).

I mean they just fired Brad McQuaid, the maker of Everquest last month, because they couldn't pay him anymore.

 

All the numbers listed are from a site called insideview.  Again, I have no idea how reputable the site is but LinkedIn lists SoE at 501-1000 employees so take that for what you will.

 

What are the "events" you refer to when guessing the amount of EQ/EQ2 developers? I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just not sure how you would really know.  Specific to Brad I'm sure he had a high price tag for a developer and he is currently developing a new MMO so I would guess that had a lot to do with him no longer being at SoE.

 

Since SoE has gone entirely to F2P it's no wonder they need to run lean, which does stink for anyone let go.  That doesn't mean SoE is "barely surviving".  I think that claim is very far fetched.

  azarhal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 532

12/23/13 7:53:19 AM#59
Originally posted by Aelious

What are the "events" you refer to when guessing the amount of EQ/EQ2 developers? I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just not sure how you would really know.  Specific to Brad I'm sure he had a high price tag for a developer and he is currently developing a new MMO so I would guess that had a lot to do with him no longer being at SoE.

Considering that Smedley himself was excited for Brad's new game (they talked about it together), I suspect he wasn't fired in the real sense of the term. It's pretty much a Sigil/Vanguard-redux and his game will probably be published by SOE in the end.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11241

12/23/13 8:33:03 AM#60
Originally posted by azarhal

Considering that Smedley himself was excited for Brad's new game (they talked about it together), I suspect he wasn't fired in the real sense of the term. It's pretty much a Sigil/Vanguard-redux and his game will probably be published by SOE in the end.

Brad mentions Smed's support on his site too

http://www.bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Welcome.html

 

Smed and Brad go way back

alot of people are not aware that Smed and Brad founded Verant together

Smed was president of Verant, Brad was VP

http://www.silkyvenom.com/pages/devtracker/index.php?go=posts&get=thread&fromsite=1&id=51141

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/9/feature/5971/Building-EQ-The-Brad-McQuaid-Interview.html/page/1

 

 worth noting that Smed's roots were in gaming - altho now he is a suit more than anything else

http://otherworlds31279.yuku.com/topic/1208/Business-20-magazine-history-of-EverQuest#.UrhNdLTuT-Y

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