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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Massively votes TESO most likely to flop

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262 posts found
  Myria

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 541

12/21/13 12:05:09 PM#21
Originally posted by Razeekster

The red signal that I first saw that made me think that TESO may not do so great is the overall lack of community interest in the game. Just scroll through past TESO articles here on MMORPG.com and compare them to other major AA+ MMORPGs that are getting covered... The lack of interest from the MMORPG community honestly worries me, and I get a sense that people have just grown tired of the same exact MMORPG coming out with a different skin on it.

 

I honestly don't think the Elder Scrolls games were ever meant to translate into an MMORPG. I think Bethesda expected fans of the Elder Scrolls games to all flock to TESO just because it had the Elder Scrolls IP attached to it, and that just hasn't seemed to happen (at least not from what I've seen).

Honestly this site is about as non-representative of the overall market as it is possible to get. To the point where if I was making an MMO I'd float ideas here and implement the ones that got the worst response. If you took this site as any kind of indicator WoW is long dead, ToR closed its doors nearly two years ago, and nothing but F2P sandboxes rule the genre.

 

Given the disconnect between what the "vets" on sites like this and Massively go on about, and the state of the market, it's hard to take anything here seriously. The people here -- myself included -- are not the market, nor anything remotely like a representative sample of same.

 

That aside, I do think trying to make an Elder Scrolls MMO was a mistake. Honestly I think trying to turn any well known IP into an MMO is a dicey proposition at best. A fairly small but extremely vocal percentage of the population tend to take IPs very personally and tend to see their "vision" of them as being the only possible correct way to do them. Don't do it their way -- and give that there are thousands of mutually exclusive "their ways", there's no way you could -- and they will never forgive and never stop bleating about it.

 

There isn't ever going to be an MMO based on LoTR, Star Wars, Warhammer, Star Trek, or any other popular IP -- including Elder Scrolls -- that won't be slammed savagely and loudly for not being the way it's "supposed" to be. Albeit, like the whole sandbox/themepark thing, no two people will agree on how it was "supposed" to be, but it won't matter because by then all it's about -- really, all it was ever about -- is trying to tear whatever it actually is down.

 

Fortunately in general the market doesn't really give a rat's arse -- if it did the genre's landscape would be very different indeed. As long as the dev's recognize this and ignore the screamers, who frankly wouldn't be pleased by anything they did anyway, it'll be fine. The "vets' will declare the game a failure from now until doomsday and the game will go on being enjoyed by people less worried about MMO-religious wars and more about having fun.

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

12/21/13 12:10:33 PM#22
Originally posted by Myria
Originally posted by Razeekster

The red signal that I first saw that made me think that TESO may not do so great is the overall lack of community interest in the game. Just scroll through past TESO articles here on MMORPG.com and compare them to other major AA+ MMORPGs that are getting covered... The lack of interest from the MMORPG community honestly worries me, and I get a sense that people have just grown tired of the same exact MMORPG coming out with a different skin on it.

 

I honestly don't think the Elder Scrolls games were ever meant to translate into an MMORPG. I think Bethesda expected fans of the Elder Scrolls games to all flock to TESO just because it had the Elder Scrolls IP attached to it, and that just hasn't seemed to happen (at least not from what I've seen).

Honestly this site is about as non-representative of the overall market as it is possible to get. To the point where if I was making an MMO I'd float ideas here and implement the ones that got the worst response. If you took this site as any kind of indicator WoW is long dead, ToR closed its doors nearly two years ago, and nothing but F2P sandboxes rule the genre.

 

Given the disconnect between what the "vets" on sites like this and Massively go on about, and the state of the market, it's hard to take anything here seriously. The people here -- myself included -- are not the market, nor anything remotely like a representative sample of same.

 

That aside, I do think trying to make an Elder Scrolls MMO was a mistake. Honestly I think trying to turn any well known IP into an MMO is a dicey proposition at best. A fairly small but extremely vocal percentage of the population tend to take IPs very personally and tend to see their "vision" of them as being the only possible correct way to do them. Don't do it their way -- and give that there are thousands of mutually exclusive "their ways", there's no way you could -- and they will never forgive and never stop bleating about it.

 

There isn't ever going to be an MMO based on LoTR, Star Wars, Warhammer, Star Trek, or any other popular IP -- including Elder Scrolls -- that won't be slammed savagely and loudly for not being the way it's "supposed" to be. Albeit, like the whole sandbox/themepark thing, no two people will agree on how it was "supposed" to be, but it won't matter because by then all it's about -- really, all it was ever about -- is trying to tear whatever it actually is down.

 

Fortunately in general the market doesn't really give a rat's arse -- if it did the genre's landscape would be very different indeed. As long as the dev's recognize this and ignore the screamers, who frankly wouldn't be pleased by anything they did anyway, it'll be fine. The "vets' will declare the game a failure from now until doomsday and the game will go on being enjoyed by people less worried about MMO-religious wars and more about having fun.

On this point, I always thought that Bioware would have been better off making an ME mmo rather than SW.  (It effectively is an ME mmo regardless).  

Using a famous IP not only pisses off diehard fans but also has many negative connotations in both the single-player and mmo market i.e. cash grab, substitute for quality etc.  

  Carnicide

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 207

12/21/13 12:16:18 PM#23
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

I played the game I don't think it will FLOP I know I'll at least be playing it when it goes live. I think it will do better than Rift in its hay day, but not as good as WoW(not even close).

  vmoped

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

12/21/13 12:20:16 PM#24
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

That article actually lowered my respect for Massively.  There are so many contradictions in it.  FFiVX game of the year (a sub model game), yet sub models are the "biggest blunder"....  That is just one example.  Just a poorly done opinion piece that has no credibility and obviously no logical standard to base their awards on.

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  Pigglesworth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

12/21/13 12:21:45 PM#25
Personally, I hope all you haters buy the game, hate it, and leave. That way they cover their development costs, get rid of the whiniest players, and can devote future development to people that actually want to enjoy the game.

@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1227

12/21/13 12:24:28 PM#26

I think they're selling it short. It has every chance to do at least as well as something like FFXIV. They're bashing it for having elements that a lot of players "don't get" but that's precisely what attracts me to it. Familiarity is not a good thing in current MMOs there is a saturation point where people are sick of playing the same old thing they've played before and many people have reached that point in the current market. I'm hoping that ESO can offer something refreshing, how they do the combat will be key though.

 

Also, berating a game for having a subscription is stupid. $15 a month is cheap for most people to play for a game that really grips them in a long term way. Charging a sub hopefully shows that Zenimax thinks they have something more than your typical throwaway "month and done" title.

 

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

12/21/13 12:28:49 PM#27

I'd have to agree with Massively. People want Skyrim online and justifiably so. TESO will flop for the same reason Neverwinter is failing, they forgot where they came from(or more likely are using a well known name as a cash grab).

  ZombieKen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

12/21/13 12:29:23 PM#28

TESO is going to flop all the way to the bank.  It will earn millions.

 

Longevity?  It doesn't need it.  If it achieves it, all the better, but the bills will be paid long before this even becomes a concern.

 

The vast number of TES fans guarantees a hit.  I see it as little different than SWTOR in this respect, although I hope for the fan's sake, the game turns out better than SWTOR did.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  muppetpilot

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/12
Posts: 53

12/21/13 12:33:53 PM#29
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
Personally, I hope all you haters buy the game, hate it, and leave. That way they cover their development costs, get rid of the whiniest players, and can devote future development to people that actually want to enjoy the game.

You do realize, do you not, that many of the people you so brashly call "haters" are those of us who actually have played the Beta and who want the game to succeed but that were disappointed by our play experience?  That much of the "hate" you seem to deride so much is just criticism about a title that at this stage has simply not lived up to its hype?  It's not any of us testers' faults if we have issues with the game; that's just the way things go.

Personally, I hope all you fanbois eventually learn that just because someone speaks negatively about his or her experience with a game, such criticism does not make that person a "hater."  Why you would so ardently defend a game that hasn't even released is just beyond reason, anyway.

Did you even stop to consider that many of the people who have given Zenimax less-than-satisfied feedback "want to enjoy the game" as much as you profess to?  Oh, I suppose not, since those people must automatically be "haters"....

  Myria

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 541

12/21/13 12:41:06 PM#30
Originally posted by muppetpilot

You do realize, do you not, that many of the people you so brashly call "haters" are those of us who actually have played the Beta and who want the game to succeed but that were disappointed by our play experience? 

Frankly I tend to doubt it. I've seen far too many people ragging on the game who clearly had never played it.

 

Beyond that, if someone is hating on the game either they didn't play it, or did and are violating the NDA. Either way, not to be trusted.

  muppetpilot

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/12
Posts: 53

12/21/13 12:42:30 PM#31
Originally posted by vmoped
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

That article actually lowered my respect for Massively.  There are so many contradictions in it.  FFiVX game of the year (a sub model game), yet sub models are the "biggest blunder"....  That is just one example.  Just a poorly done opinion piece that has no credibility and obviously no logical standard to base their awards on.

Cheers!

Massively is pretty horrid overall, anyway.  The site is obviously paid to promote Guild Wars 2 and yet they continually deny that this is the case; how anyone could construe those silly 8-bit jumping puzzles as an "expansion of the year" is beyond me.  Massively has done nothing but over-hype that game from day one and continues to sugarcoat everything that it contains.  One of the main reasons I quit reading anything of theirs is because every third "article" is about Gw 2 and their resident  fanbois rave on and on with no moderation. 

Not only that, but the site is clearly anti-Sub anything.  They post article after article about shiny, happy f2p models and decry sub games every chance they get.  Like you said, much of what they post is just poorly done opinion pieces.  If their revenue is coming from f2p supporters and Gw 2 promotion that's fine, but the least they could do is be honest about it. 

  Raquis

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 303

12/21/13 12:47:09 PM#32

there is no way it will flop,they will just lets subs and game get cheaper along its life span.

these people know how to make games.thank goodness its not  a kill 5 rats game.

  artemisentr4

Elite Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1439

12/21/13 12:47:13 PM#33
Originally posted by muppetpilot
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
Personally, I hope all you haters buy the game, hate it, and leave. That way they cover their development costs, get rid of the whiniest players, and can devote future development to people that actually want to enjoy the game.

You do realize, do you not, that many of the people you so brashly call "haters" are those of us who actually have played the Beta and who want the game to succeed but that were disappointed by our play experience?  That much of the "hate" you seem to deride so much is just criticism about a title that at this stage has simply not lived up to its hype?  It's not any of us testers' faults if we have issues with the game; that's just the way things go.

Personally, I hope all you fanbois eventually learn that just because someone speaks negatively about his or her experience with a game, such criticism does not make that person a "hater."  Why you would so ardently defend a game that hasn't even released is just beyond reason, anyway.

Did you even stop to consider that many of the people who have given Zenimax less-than-satisfied feedback "want to enjoy the game" as much as you profess to?  Oh, I suppose not, since those people must automatically be "haters"....

There is a difference between "I didn't like how the game played" and "this game will fail because I didn't like it".

 

People some label as "hater" are the later and state that their opinion is fact and that no one else should try the game because they didn't like it. At the same time, the label "fanboi" isn't fair for anyone that liked their game experience and fight against the "hater" attitude.

 

Players discussing opinion of how games should be made and or played is great. Stating opinion as fact is not IMO.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

12/21/13 12:49:11 PM#34
Originally posted by ZombieKen

TESO is going to flop all the way to the bank.  It will earn millions.

 

Longevity?  It doesn't need it.  If it achieves it, all the better, but the bills will be paid long before this even becomes a concern.

 

The vast number of TES fans guarantees a hit.  I see it as little different than SWTOR in this respect, although I hope for the fan's sake, the game turns out better than SWTOR did.

 

I wouldn't count on it. There's infinitely more Star Wars fans then ES ones and SWTOR is still in debt by the tens of millions after a catastrophic lack of player retention rate in which they are only just now recovering.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

12/21/13 12:51:09 PM#35

In other related news :

Gaming Site holds a vote on upcoming game.

People who have not played said game but agree with the result praise the site in question  and voice their agreement

People who have not  played said game but disagree with the result vilify the site in question and voice their disagreement.

Film at 11.

  Fdzzaigl

Elite Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2089

12/21/13 12:55:20 PM#36
I think I feel quite annoyed when massively pretends to know what MMO gamers as a population think.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  artemisentr4

Elite Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1439

12/21/13 12:58:23 PM#37
Originally posted by iridescence

I think they're selling it short. It has every chance to do at least as well as something like FFXIV. They're bashing it for having elements that a lot of players "don't get" but that's precisely what attracts me to it. Familiarity is not a good thing in current MMOs there is a saturation point where people are sick of playing the same old thing they've played before and many people have reached that point in the current market. I'm hoping that ESO can offer something refreshing, how they do the combat will be key though.

 

Also, berating a game for having a subscription is stupid. $15 a month is cheap for most people to play for a game that really grips them in a long term way. Charging a sub hopefully shows that Zenimax thinks they have something more than your typical throwaway "month and done" title.

 

^^ This

 

I am looking forward to trying the skill system and see how the combat works once you build up enough to fill two weapon skill bars. Trying out a lot of different combos of armor, weapon, class, race and guild skills. Doing both PvE and PvP to progress my character at end game.

 

I guess that makes me crazy to want to try the game and find out for my self. I guess I should just read an article like that and just not try the game at all because they told me it will "flop".

 

 

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

12/21/13 1:06:47 PM#38
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
Originally posted by ZombieKen

TESO is going to flop all the way to the bank.  It will earn millions.

 

Longevity?  It doesn't need it.  If it achieves it, all the better, but the bills will be paid long before this even becomes a concern.

 

The vast number of TES fans guarantees a hit.  I see it as little different than SWTOR in this respect, although I hope for the fan's sake, the game turns out better than SWTOR did.

 

I wouldn't count on it. There's infinitely more Star Wars fans then ES ones and SWTOR is still in debt by the tens of millions after a catastrophic lack of player retention rate in which they are only just now recovering.

I think ES fans would translate more readily into mmo players than SW fans, plus I believe there is a small difference in the budgets.    

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

12/21/13 1:08:57 PM#39
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
Originally posted by ZombieKen

TESO is going to flop all the way to the bank.  It will earn millions.

 

Longevity?  It doesn't need it.  If it achieves it, all the better, but the bills will be paid long before this even becomes a concern.

 

The vast number of TES fans guarantees a hit.  I see it as little different than SWTOR in this respect, although I hope for the fan's sake, the game turns out better than SWTOR did.

 

I wouldn't count on it. There's infinitely more Star Wars fans then ES ones and SWTOR is still in debt by the tens of millions after a catastrophic lack of player retention rate in which they are only just now recovering.

Good point.  Marketers at EA estimated SW worldwide fans to be "10's of 10's of millions", which is 100+ million to me.  But only 2.4 million SWTOR boxes got sold (according to VGChatz estimates), with another million new accounts made after it went freemium (EA quarterly statement).

 

Even if the majority of those new accounts in SWTOR were actually brand new players, that would only put the audience at about 3% of SW fans worldwide who bought the game.

 

Since ESO is a console game, I would expect the marketing outreach to be greater.  I do also, however, agree with the article that the subscription cost is going to mystify console fans.  There will be many complaints, even if Zenimax puts "$15 a month subscription fee" right on the box cover.  Add to that lackluster console MMORPG past stigma.

 

Even if ESO milks as much money as possible before being forced to go F2P, I would think this game would be better suited as the "Most disappointing game of the year", instead of "biggest flop".  To me, the two are more or less mean the same, although flop is more severe (complete failure, etc).

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  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

12/21/13 1:16:02 PM#40

I think ES fans would translate more readily into mmo players than SW fans, plus I believe there is a small difference in the budgets.    

Why is that? Every ES is single player with absolutely no multi player capabilities. I good chuck of ES players play it BECAUSE it's single player. Not to mention an MMO Star Wars was already a huge success before SWTOR was made, that is, until SoE did what SoE does and screw up the entire game with NGE.  Which means a Star Wars MMO was alot less risky then an ES one.

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