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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Massively votes TESO most likely to flop

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262 posts found
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5015

 
OP  12/21/13 10:54:13 AM#1

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1603

12/21/13 11:00:20 AM#2
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

If you read what they say it sounds like they think it's going to sell a lot of boxes and subs at least short term but it's long term viability is up in the air.  Well duh, if TESO doesn't innovate day 1 onward it is going to have issues holding onto subs.  They are going to have to fight every month to keep those subs by giving players something to sub for.

And I find it interesting they voted FFXIV game of the year and traditional sub models the biggest blunder of the year.   They do know it's a Sub game right?

  Myria

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 534

12/21/13 11:04:37 AM#3

The Internet Herd -- and Massively, as well as this site, is nothing if not desperate to be part of the Internet Herd -- wants TESO to flop and hopes they can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

This isn't exactly news.

 

The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)? Then again, FFXIV ARR does not seem to be doing overly well as far as I can tell (not, mind, that I want it to fail or particularly care one way or the other), but it is amusing that the go on and on about FFXIV ARR and then bitch about Wildstar and ESO making the "mistake" of not realizing that subs are dead.

 

Because, yeah, subs are dead and it's F2P sandboxes everywhere.

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1556

12/21/13 11:05:40 AM#4


Anatoli: "Flop" is a really loaded term when it comes to MMO. I don't think ESO will make much of a splash. I doubt it'll fail as a game or as a venture, but I predict that a lot of people will decide that it did when it doesn't set the whole world on fire.

Bree: I think ESO will launch just fine and collect a lot of box and sub fees initially, but long-term, it's in trouble. MMORPG fans are sick of story-driven single-player themepark MMOs, console fans will be mystified by subs and a three-way PvP endgame, and Elder Scrolls fans will wander back to the lore and mods of their solo sandboxes. I'm truly not sure for whom the game is intended, and I say that as a TES fanatic.

Matthew: I'm not really a fan of The Elder Scrolls series, so maybe I'm biased, but I can't see the online version having the success of the single-player installments.

MJ: If I were forced to hazard a guess, I would say ESO. It feels as if there is a dark shadow of "can't meet expectations" hanging over it.

I think they have valid reason why the game might not live up to expectations, i think they have some pretty fair views on why.

 

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  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

12/21/13 11:08:55 AM#5

That entire article is worth a read- quite entertaining and I think reflects the thoughts of many posting here on a number of issues.  

I particularly like 'Biggest Disappointment' 

  nytemareh

Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 164

12/21/13 11:09:32 AM#6
What is really funny about everything in that write up is that they seem to think TESO is releasing in 2013.  They also seem to think that a bunch sandboxes was released in 2013.  That site, and write up can not be taken seriously by any means.  

<img src='http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000031cd29/signature.png'></img>

  joe2721

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/07
Posts: 145

12/21/13 11:12:35 AM#7

It really seems to me that the fate of any new game is up to us. Not these websites that review rate and for see the future. If it was so easy to judge a fail or win before launch  companies would  learn the magic formula and just keep copying it.

But consumers these days ask for  the moon and when you deliver it  that then want the stars and get upset you gave them the moon. We as gamers don't really know what we want but are very quick to ask for everything and complain  about it once we get it.

I will try it for sure, because I try most new mmo's and if it grabs me I will keep going with it but my crystal ball is broken atm.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5015

 
OP  12/21/13 11:13:20 AM#8
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

If you read what they say it sounds like they think it's going to sell a lot of boxes and subs at least short term but it's long term viability is up in the air.  Well duh, if TESO doesn't innovate day 1 onward it is going to have issues holding onto subs.  They are going to have to fight every month to keep those subs by giving players something to sub for.

And I find it interesting they voted FFXIV game of the year and traditional sub models the biggest blunder of the year.   They do know it's a Sub game right?

Payment model and game quality are 2 separate things.

Subscription model is going the way of the dinasaurs, I agree with that, especially from the developers viewpoint, as cash shop provides 100x more possibilities (give any type of player an option), while subscription is - convince all players that the game is worth another $15 for one more month.

So as a developer in sub model, its a losing battle as no matter how good your game is, players will get bored and unsub.

F2P game - player get bored and leave, no problem, they can leave and come back whenever they want, you are not under pressure to convince them to resub, the players don't feel pressured to play because they paid. 

When F2P model is done right (not predatory or manipulative) - its head and shoulders better than a sub model.

 

 

  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 826

12/21/13 11:15:42 AM#9
zenimax & sony are pay  $$$$$ for that !

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1899

May the game be ever in your favor.

12/21/13 11:16:45 AM#10
Originally posted by Myria

The Internet Herd -- and Massively, as well as this site, is nothing if not desperate to be part of the Internet Herd -- wants TESO to flop and hopes they can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

This isn't exactly news.

 

The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)? Then again, FFXIV ARR does not seem to be doing overly well as far as I can tell (not, mind, that I want it to fail or particularly care one way or the other), but it is amusing that the go on and on about FFXIV ARR and then bitch about Wildstar and ESO making the "mistake" of not realizing that subs are dead.

 

Because, yeah, subs are dead and it's F2P sandboxes everywhere.

I personally don't want TESO to flop as I love the Elder Scrolls games, but do I think that TESO is going to be a successful MMORPG? After playing in the Beta (I don't think I'm breaking the NDA by just saying I played in the Beta, and if I am feel free to edit/delete this post  O' Mighty Forum Mod), I'm going to be honest:

 

No, I don't think TESO is going to be very successful. It's coming out in 2014 around the same time a lot of other MMOs are speculated to be released too, and those MMOs seem to be drawing more attention from people than TESO has. TESO is 100% themepark, which is okay, but it's 100% themepark that doesn't seem to be doing anything new accept attaching the IP Elder Scrolls to it.

 

Like I said, I love the Elder Scrolls and had high hopes for TESO, but the problem is TESO just doesn't feel like Elder Scrolls.

Smile

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

12/21/13 11:22:05 AM#11
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Myria

The Internet Herd -- and Massively, as well as this site, is nothing if not desperate to be part of the Internet Herd -- wants TESO to flop and hopes they can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

This isn't exactly news.

 

The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)? Then again, FFXIV ARR does not seem to be doing overly well as far as I can tell (not, mind, that I want it to fail or particularly care one way or the other), but it is amusing that the go on and on about FFXIV ARR and then bitch about Wildstar and ESO making the "mistake" of not realizing that subs are dead.

 

Because, yeah, subs are dead and it's F2P sandboxes everywhere.

I personally don't want TESO to flop as I love the Elder Scrolls games, but do I think that TESO is going to be a successful MMORPG? After playing in the Beta (I don't think I'm breaking the NDA by just saying I played in the Beta, and if I am feel free to edit/delete this post  O' Mighty Forum Mod), I'm going to be honest:

 

No, I don't think TESO is going to be very successful. It's coming out in 2014 around the same time a lot of other MMOs are speculated to be released too, and those MMOs seem to be drawing more attention from people than TESO has. TESO is 100% themepark, which is okay, but it's 100% themepark that doesn't seem to be doing anything new accept attaching the IP Elder Scrolls to it.

 

Like I said, I love the Elder Scrolls and had high hopes for TESO, but the problem is TESO just doesn't feel like Elder Scrolls.

I haven't played in the Beta, but I predict my response will be the following: -

I'll buy it, log in and find another generic themepark mmo.  It will either remind me enough of Skyrim that I'll wind up going back to it, or it will remind me enough of better themepark mmo's that I will go back to/ move onto those.  

I hope that isn't the case, but I fully expect it to be.  

  User Deleted
12/21/13 11:22:43 AM#12
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

 

Thoughts? LMAO. Uhm... I think Massively isn't getting enough ad revenue from Zenimax to be mindful of what they say and frankly aren't liable to get any special features like DEV interviews (or selfies), special screenies, or that nice stuff from them for a while after that to draw readers. I think I agree strongly with Bree's comments on the game and find it amusing they would note sand box trends as the next big thing after talking about TESO. It is what it is.

 

LOL

 

(That just for all of you that cringe at a forty year old including LOL in his post.)

 

LOL

 

(Two cringes for the price of one. Merry Christmas. See? Made you feel something over the interwebz.)

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1899

May the game be ever in your favor.

12/21/13 11:33:07 AM#13
Originally posted by LittleBoot
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Myria

The Internet Herd -- and Massively, as well as this site, is nothing if not desperate to be part of the Internet Herd -- wants TESO to flop and hopes they can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

This isn't exactly news.

 

The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)? Then again, FFXIV ARR does not seem to be doing overly well as far as I can tell (not, mind, that I want it to fail or particularly care one way or the other), but it is amusing that the go on and on about FFXIV ARR and then bitch about Wildstar and ESO making the "mistake" of not realizing that subs are dead.

 

Because, yeah, subs are dead and it's F2P sandboxes everywhere.

I personally don't want TESO to flop as I love the Elder Scrolls games, but do I think that TESO is going to be a successful MMORPG? After playing in the Beta (I don't think I'm breaking the NDA by just saying I played in the Beta, and if I am feel free to edit/delete this post  O' Mighty Forum Mod), I'm going to be honest:

 

No, I don't think TESO is going to be very successful. It's coming out in 2014 around the same time a lot of other MMOs are speculated to be released too, and those MMOs seem to be drawing more attention from people than TESO has. TESO is 100% themepark, which is okay, but it's 100% themepark that doesn't seem to be doing anything new accept attaching the IP Elder Scrolls to it.

 

Like I said, I love the Elder Scrolls and had high hopes for TESO, but the problem is TESO just doesn't feel like Elder Scrolls.

I haven't played in the Beta, but I predict my response will be the following: -

I'll buy it, log in and find another generic themepark mmo.  It will either remind me enough of Skyrim that I'll wind up going back to it, or it will remind me enough of better themepark mmo's that I will go back to/ move onto those.  

I hope that isn't the case, but I fully expect it to be.  

The red signal that I first saw that made me think that TESO may not do so great is the overall lack of community interest in the game. Just scroll through past TESO articles here on MMORPG.com and compare them to other major AA+ MMORPGs that are getting covered... The lack of interest from the MMORPG community honestly worries me, and I get a sense that people have just grown tired of the same exact MMORPG coming out with a different skin on it.

 

I honestly don't think the Elder Scrolls games were ever meant to translate into an MMORPG. I think Bethesda expected fans of the Elder Scrolls games to all flock to TESO just because it had the Elder Scrolls IP attached to it, and that just hasn't seemed to happen (at least not from what I've seen).

Smile

  azurrei

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 61

12/21/13 11:35:03 AM#14

I don't think ESO will flop, but I don't think it's going to be wildly popular, either.  Here is the thing with TESO people need to remember and understand:

TESO is an MMO set in the ES Universe, not an MMO version of TES: (insert name of ES game.)  There IS a difference.

  LlexX

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/12
Posts: 200

12/21/13 11:38:42 AM#15

Completely agree with Massively!

 

This game is way to overhyped, not saying that it will be a bad game, it just won't reach the expectations of the players who enjoyed the single player TES games, nor the expectations of those who want a good MMO, it's the same generic themepark like the rest just with some little changes (before you say anything, i've been in the beta, and this was my impression).

 

Personally i will play the game, because i've played all TES games after Daggerfall, and im interested in the story, but after that i will just delete it fast, since i don't want to play another crap themepark MMO.

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1899

May the game be ever in your favor.

12/21/13 11:40:44 AM#16
Originally posted by LlexX

Completely agree with Massively!

 

This game is way to overhyped, not saying that it will be a bad game, it just won't reach the expectations of the players who enjoyed the single player TES games, nor the expectations of those who want a good MMO, it's the same generic themepark like the rest just with some little changes (before you say anything, i've been in the beta, and this was my impression).

 

Personally i will play the game, because i've played all TES games after Daggerfall, and im interested in the story, but after that i will just delete it fast, since i don't want to play another crap themepark MMO.

I hope you're joking. The actual lack of hype for TESO is pretty surprising.

Smile

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

12/21/13 11:41:00 AM#17
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by LittleBoot
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Myria

The Internet Herd -- and Massively, as well as this site, is nothing if not desperate to be part of the Internet Herd -- wants TESO to flop and hopes they can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

This isn't exactly news.

 

The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)? Then again, FFXIV ARR does not seem to be doing overly well as far as I can tell (not, mind, that I want it to fail or particularly care one way or the other), but it is amusing that the go on and on about FFXIV ARR and then bitch about Wildstar and ESO making the "mistake" of not realizing that subs are dead.

 

Because, yeah, subs are dead and it's F2P sandboxes everywhere.

I personally don't want TESO to flop as I love the Elder Scrolls games, but do I think that TESO is going to be a successful MMORPG? After playing in the Beta (I don't think I'm breaking the NDA by just saying I played in the Beta, and if I am feel free to edit/delete this post  O' Mighty Forum Mod), I'm going to be honest:

 

No, I don't think TESO is going to be very successful. It's coming out in 2014 around the same time a lot of other MMOs are speculated to be released too, and those MMOs seem to be drawing more attention from people than TESO has. TESO is 100% themepark, which is okay, but it's 100% themepark that doesn't seem to be doing anything new accept attaching the IP Elder Scrolls to it.

 

Like I said, I love the Elder Scrolls and had high hopes for TESO, but the problem is TESO just doesn't feel like Elder Scrolls.

I haven't played in the Beta, but I predict my response will be the following: -

I'll buy it, log in and find another generic themepark mmo.  It will either remind me enough of Skyrim that I'll wind up going back to it, or it will remind me enough of better themepark mmo's that I will go back to/ move onto those.  

I hope that isn't the case, but I fully expect it to be.  

The red signal that I first saw that made me think that TESO may not do so great is the overall lack of community interest in the game. Just scroll through past TESO articles here on MMORPG.com and compare them to other major AA+ MMORPGs that are getting covered... The lack of interest from the MMORPG community honestly worries me, and I get a sense that people have just grown tired of the same exact MMORPG coming out with a different skin on it.

 

I honestly don't think the Elder Scrolls games were ever meant to translate into an MMORPG. I think Bethesda expected fans of the Elder Scrolls games to all flock to TESO just because it had the Elder Scrolls IP attached to it, and that just hasn't seemed to happen (at least not from what I've seen).

The thing is that they could, but just slapping some TESO artwork on a generic themepark isn't going to cut it.   

I agree, comparatively to other upcoming releases there seems to have been very little interest and I put this down to: -

1) the use of the IP just gives the impression of a cash grab;

2) there has been very little information from the devs which is a little of a concern in itself, and;

3) as you said, people who like Elder Scrolls like Elder Scrolls- I am not sure they are necessarily looking for a watered down mmo version (perhaps a limited multi-player version but not an mmo).  

  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 477

12/21/13 11:44:44 AM#18

I have no ill feelings towards the people involved but I think it's a bad idea for an MMORPG and a poorly designed game idea-wise.

 

ES is one of the best and most beloved PvE franchises ever, centered on quality content, freedom of choice, freedom of character development, insane immersion, depth.

 

ESO messes with ES lore to make fake PvP teams to facilitate PvP.  Why PvP in a franchise that has never had ANYTHING to do with PvP?  Why not focus on...hmm...I don't know...PvE....in franchise known for years as having some of the strongest PvE content ever created?

 

ES is going light on everything ES.  MMORPG constraints on content and freedom.  Light infusing of ES character development principles and drifting towards more generic MMORPG classes and skill setups.

 

Immersion in MMORPGs can be good but it's different and there is zero chance of it matching the type of feeling you get playing an ES game where YOU are the story, everything revolves around YOU and your decisions, what YOU DO permanently affects the world all the time.

 

There is no immersion in seeing 20 people gathered around clearly marked quest NPCs.  There is no freedom or immersion in small little boxed in zones.  What you do might affect your personal story line, while you do it next to 20 other people, but you can't permanently affect the game world in a typical MMORPG.

 

Big difference between stumbling into or getting sent to a remote dungeon that's extremely detailed and unique with interesting traps and going into a generic MMORPG dungeon designed for idiots with 20 idiots mowing down everything and looting everything while you sit there wondering wtf went wrong.

 

Oh yeah, another big failing.  ES doesn't hold your hand and treat you like an MMORPG baby.  It dumps you into the game world, lets you figure things out, often the hard way, and lets you pick your own path, and where you decide to take your story, it will be fun.  That's not how MMORPGs work.  MMORPGs like ESO are designed to treat you like and idiot, hold your hand, and pretend you've never seen a computer before.

 

MMORPGs based on popular IPs are tricky at best.  In this case, it's just a bad, bad idea because the best parts of the ES franchise simply can never work in an MMORPG, and for whatever reason the devs of ESO decided to add a lot of PvP stuff for a franchise that's never had PvP instead of attempting to focus on what the franchise is all about - incredible quality PvE.

 

Dunno about flop, since there are a lot of blind and/or foolish people out there who will latch on to even the worst of ideas, but I seriously doubt that ESO ends up having the same type of impact that ES itself has had, and I don't see how it can live up to the excellence represented by the ES lineage and brand.

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  kilun

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 686

12/21/13 11:46:25 AM#19
Originally posted by Razeekster
I honestly don't think the Elder Scrolls games were ever meant to translate into an MMORPG. I think Bethesda expected fans of the Elder Scrolls games to all flock to TESO just because it had the Elder Scrolls IP attached to it, and that just hasn't seemed to happen (at least not from what I've seen).

I have little to no interest in the game personally, but I wonder if it'll be like FFXI that has a solid following that continues to play it.  It maybe a niche sleeper hit.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17080

12/21/13 11:54:11 AM#20
Originally posted by Voqar
whatever reason the devs of ESO decided to add a lot of PvP stuff for a franchise that's never had PvP instead of attempting to focus on what the franchise is all about - incredible quality PvE.

 

Though I agree with many of your assessments I don't agree with the above.

To the point, of course they didn't have pvp, they were single player games.

You can have pvp in an elder scrolls game and no reason why you can't. If anything, when taken on face value, the pvp would probably be ffa pvp which of course many players don't like.

But yes, having 20 people standing around one npc feels ridiculous and even more ridiculous is having those 20 people jumping around the same cave doing the same quest.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, ESO should have been more like the original guild wars. Just have the world be there for the party, make it so that rewards and challenges are different (not talking scaling but "different") for party vs solo and let players group/solo through the game.

And honestly? I think LOTRO should have been the exact same way.

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