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General Discussion  » Anyone else annoyed with the ESO bashing?

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43 posts found
  Arndush

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 309

 
OP  12/20/13 2:15:57 PM#1

I have a prediciton for 2014. ESO will "fail." Why? Because it's a bad game? Nope. Because, no one can tell who the market is for this game? No. Because, TES fans will be turned off by the subs? No. Because there won't be enough endgame PvE? No. Nope it will "fail" because it seems the majority of the MMO community has already decided it will do so.

Frankly, I don't care if it has 250,000 subs, 500,000 subs, 1 million subs, 5 million subs, etc. To me, it will be a success if they nail the endgame 3 faction PvP and have a dedicated loyal player base for that PvP. If that happens, I'll be having fun for years to come and people playing WildStar, EQN, or whatever the MMO du jour is can rant all they want about the terrible failure that is ESO.

Now, if they don't nail that experience, then in my mind it will truly fail and I'll be moving on to Star Citizen and Camelot: Unchained. But, I'm at least going to approach the launch of ESO with an open mind.

Just my 2cp,

Arndush

  DaKurlzz

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 67

"Your Knife My Back, My Gun Your Head"

12/20/13 2:18:10 PM#2
When the NDA is gone, a lot of people will talk about it more, including me. A lot of people bash the game, and the majority of people I know who bashed it I.E friends, have played in the Beta. I'm excited to see what happens when the NDA is gone.

Who said this won't be perfect after all we know what is right
And the sounds of bodies clashing is enough to make them cry.
You know this cannot be perfect even when it is feeling right.
And the sound of bodies crashing echo through the night.

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

12/20/13 2:23:04 PM#3

Why get anoyed, its the same people bashing every game that isnt exactly to their liking....

when will they finally realise that sandbox mmos are boring like hell?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4817

12/20/13 2:27:23 PM#4

When has an internet forum ( especially this one ) ever represented a majority ?

If the game fails it's because the masses that have ever been to a forum didn't like it and left to play something else. Not because their tinny brains got mind fucked into believing this nonsense. 

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Cacaphony

Tipster

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 751

12/20/13 2:29:08 PM#5

Here is mmorpg.com in a nutshell.

"This will fail, that will fail... DOOOOOOOOOOOM, dumbed down this, dumbed down that, failure, hype, lol your opinion is irrelevant but mine means everything."

Don't be annoyed with the hate, bashing, whatever. It happens to every game. Its the norm. :P

  JJ82

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 943

12/20/13 2:31:37 PM#6

No, but I sure am sick of people telling others that they cant have an opinion unless it falls in line with the "everything is OK" crowd, same with them being dismissed outright with things like "its the same people every time". The people that talk about about games without an NDA give far more actual reasons why they think that way than those that come in with blind defense and outright dismissals.

Its so bad that Raph Koster wrote a nice long article about how fanboys are the single worst element in gaming that causes far more harm than even trolls. See, not even well known game makers like you.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  User Deleted
12/20/13 2:33:17 PM#7
Unrealistic expectations.  There are a lot of people who seem to think it's feasible to design an MMO that's "modded Skyrim."  I think opinions are also really skewed towards the negative right now, because everyone who has actually played the betas is still under NDA, so those of us with positive things to say have to skirt the whole issue.
  JJ82

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 943

12/20/13 2:42:16 PM#8
Originally posted by asmkm22
Unrealistic expectations.  There are a lot of people who seem to think it's feasible to design an MMO that's "modded Skyrim."  I think opinions are also really skewed towards the negative right now, because everyone who has actually played the betas is still under NDA, so those of us with positive things to say have to skirt the whole issue.

What part of Skyrim cannot be done in an MMO?

Complete open world? been done.

No class limitations? Done.

Modding? Done in both UI ways and in game item ways via the Foundry in CoH/Neverwinter, even SWG had build your own guild quests.

Housing? Done.

No faction racial locks? Done.

Game with factions but no closed off faction zones? Done.

PvP not behind an invisible wall? Done.

Not being funneled from the start of the game to a central area? Done.

More sandbox than Themepark? Done.

There can be a TES MMO, but it would have had to have been made by people not wanting to make a DaoC sequel. And this does not cover many of the things people are complaining about which will be fully covered when the DNA is lifted.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  Sawlstone

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/09
Posts: 308

12/20/13 2:49:27 PM#9
I love it! Because it makes me laugh that people choose to bash anything at all instead of simply not playing it....
  sketocafe

Elite Member

Joined: 7/19/11
Posts: 589

12/20/13 2:50:26 PM#10
No. These are the type of people who called ToR and GW2 correctly. They do good work.
  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4817

12/20/13 2:56:36 PM#11
Originally posted by JJ82

 

Its so bad that Raph Koster wrote a nice long article about how fanboys are the single worst element in gaming that causes far more harm than even trolls. See, not even well known game makers like you.

You should probably read that " long" article if you're going to put words like that in his mouth.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Arndush

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 309

 
OP  12/20/13 2:58:49 PM#12
Originally posted by JJ82

No, but I sure am sick of people telling others that they cant have an opinion unless it falls in line with the "everything is OK" crowd, same with them being dismissed outright with things like "its the same people every time". The people that talk about about games without an NDA give far more actual reasons why they think that way than those that come in with blind defense and outright dismissals.

Its so bad that Raph Koster wrote a nice long article about how fanboys are the single worst element in gaming that causes far more harm than even trolls. See, not even well known game makers like you.

 

I never said someone can't have or voice their opinions. I'm not saying the game will be a success. I'm not even sure I'll like the way they do the PVP, which is the most important element of the game from my perspective. I just don't know yet. As I said, I'm just approaching the game with an open mind and I grow frustrated by the wonton negativity and frankly, I don't give a damn if game makers like me. Just as long as they make a good game.
  gambe1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 125

12/20/13 3:03:11 PM#13
No, it is because everything we saw so far was crap. Leaked beta video, rubbish pvp video, etc. It does not look like a triple A MMO at all. In fact it looks like they are not even trying, and as a big fan of the franchise, i would hate to see, how a fail MMO would ruin all of it.
  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

12/20/13 3:04:05 PM#14
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Why get anoyed, its the same people bashing every game that isnt exactly to their liking....

when will they finally realise that sandbox mmos are boring like hell?

(/answer) .................... when they will have dececent Sandboxes to play..........

When developers will get bored (and broke) of making thousands of Themepark MMOs made with the same blueprint and start making some AAA Sandboxes, maybe people will have the chance to find the Sandboxes are boring......... or maybe not.

 

See the point here is that in the modern MMO industry there is not enough diversification and what people complaints is the fact that developers make millions of Themeparks and almost no Sandboxes (with a ratio of 20 to 1 wich is not a fair ratio of Themeparkers vs Sandboxers).

So when a new Themepark comes out people automatically goes "No........... not again". Do you blame them?

 

Considering the fact that Sandboxes kickstarted the whole MMO industry, I find it ironic that they were unceremoniously dropped by the MMO industry after WoW came out, just because THAT game hit the jackpot of 10 Million players.

History thought us that after WoW there were not succesfull Themepark MMOs, but just games that did OK.

It's funny though that even though there are hundreds of Themepark games out there, the second most successful MMO in NA/EU is one of the rare Sandbox................ EvE (and it is not even Fantasy themed which supposedly is far more popular than Sci-Fi)

 

  BearKnight

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 449

12/20/13 3:05:21 PM#15
Originally posted by Arndush

I have a prediciton for 2014. ESO will "fail." Why? Because it's a bad game? Nope. Because, no one can tell who the market is for this game? No. Because, TES fans will be turned off by the subs? No. Because there won't be enough endgame PvE? No. Nope it will "fail" because it seems the majority of the MMO community has already decided it will do so.

Frankly, I don't care if it has 250,000 subs, 500,000 subs, 1 million subs, 5 million subs, etc. To me, it will be a success if they nail the endgame 3 faction PvP and have a dedicated loyal player base for that PvP. If that happens, I'll be having fun for years to come and people playing WildStar, EQN, or whatever the MMO du jour is can rant all they want about the terrible failure that is ESO.

Now, if they don't nail that experience, then in my mind it will truly fail and I'll be moving on to Star Citizen and Camelot: Unchained. But, I'm at least going to approach the launch of ESO with an open mind.

Just my 2cp,

Arndush

No offense but people like you drive me up a wall. 

 

If so many people are bashing it. That does NOT mean they're doing it just to bash it. They're doing it, most likely, because they don't like what they've done with the IP they licensed, and the game itself isn't what it should have been in their opinion.

 

You may not like it, but the game most likely is a giant copy-cat of some other "well known" product that recently released. I'm not in beta, but I hear from others some really interesting things (not gonna say if positive or negative).

 

That said, if SO many people are bashing the game then there is something to it, and not just because random people looking at it from a keyboard-warrior perspective where they've only been following the videos, then there is most likely reason for that.

 

I myself have been following it, and personally it looks like they went in a horrible direction and it will fail, but that's my personal opinion. I also said the same thing about SWTOR and Diablo 3 but was trolled for claiming such things and then it turns out months later everyone is agreeing with me. 

 

This forum is like the Twilight Zone for me sometimes tbh. One minute people are trolling you saying you know nothing, but then a month or so later they're all buddy-buddy with you repeating the same things you were saying that they hated you for saying.

 

/boggle

  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3623

12/20/13 3:07:42 PM#16
I suggest not visiting any gaming forums then for any game.
  Pigglesworth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

12/20/13 3:09:59 PM#17
If you want a real conversation about the game, visit TamrielFoundry.com

@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

12/20/13 3:12:34 PM#18

It's an anonymous internet forum so there is very little accountability.

 

People get banned here all the time when they consistently go over the line, especially with personal attacks, and they then just turn around and make a brand new forum name using a different email address and keep right on going.

 

There are legitimate reasons for people to like or dislike different aspects of this game. But you should be very suspicious of, and just dismiss outright, anyone who likes or dislikes everything about ESO.

 

For example, I love what they're doing with classes, skills and progression and the AvA - including the faction lock. I'm curious with a "wait and see attitude" about the no-AH economic model, itemization and crafting. And I'm not crazy about the multiple-guild membership, the free-for-all PvE "megaserver" with phasing or the kludgy 50+ access to the other alliance areas for PvE.

 

I put all that together and my personal decision is that I like what I'm seeing and will buy it. But other people will lean the other way. I can even see how some people have personal "no-go" triggers that they can't get past - that could be anything that annoys them enough.

 

For example, I'm usually pretty tolerant but I have a very hard time getting past the sexualization of child-like races in many eastern MMOs. I find it so off-putting that I don't even give them much of a chance.

 

For others this trigger could be the subscription pay model, the faction-lock, the instancing, whatever... I've even seen people in this forum say that if you can't sit on the chairs in the ESO world, they won't play it. 

 

Shrug... no MMO is for everyone. 

 

 

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4817

12/20/13 3:18:53 PM#19
Originally posted by ste2000
(

Considering the fact that Sandboxes kickstarted the whole MMO industry, I find it ironic that they were unceremoniously dropped by the MMO industry after WoW came out, just because THAT game hit the jackpot of 10 Million players.

History thought us that after WoW there were not succesfull Themepark MMOs, but just games that did OK.

It's funny though that even though there are hundreds of Themepark games out there, the second most successful MMO in NA/EU is one of the rare Sandbox................ EvE (and it is not even Fantasy themed which supposedly is far more popular than Sci-Fi)

 

That's all well and good from the players side of things but... what happened to sandbox games when wow came out ? The died.

Eve is arguably the second most successful mmo and it's a sandbox so why does it only have a slightly larger player base than any of the uncountable themepark games out there that ppl love to say failed ? If it really is the holy grail of sandbox games why isn't it at 10 million subs. 

I've always believed that if you put a themepark player in a sand box they'll be bored by the first hour. They may tell you on a forum they want a sandbox but if they can't make their own fun for a few hours in a themepark how will they do it when they have to make their own fun all the time every time they log in ?

the answer....they wont, and developers know this. It's why games like EQN only have sandbox features and didn't go full sandbox. You do that and you doom your game to a small population.... it may be great and the people who play it will love it like the next coming of swg, but that isn't what companies are looking for when they invest multi millions into a game.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12280

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

12/20/13 3:25:53 PM#20
Originally posted by DamonVile

When has an internet forum ( especially this one ) ever represented a majority ?

If the game fails it's because the masses that have ever been to a forum didn't like it and left to play something else. Not because their tinny brains got mind fucked into believing this nonsense. 

Agreed.  The forums represent a tiny subset in both participation and views. 

 

As for the question in the subject line. It isn't just ESO bashing that's getting annoying, it's the very narrow-minded and all too common "Game lacks [poster's pet feature]. FAIL" posts that I'm growing tired of.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

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