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Developers Corner 

Help Wanted  » Does anybody here know C++ or do 3D animation? Concept art?

15 posts found
  hydrofox

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/13
Posts: 10

 
OP  12/18/13 5:38:28 AM#1

I have been working on an original idea for an MMORPG for the last 6 years. I have over 40 pages of information from it's lore, to it's world, world map, races, storyline, timeline, etc. it's a really fantastic idea, (or so I've been told by many who heard it) but here is the issue. 

 

After going to college for game design, my professor alerted me to the fact that the gaming industry wont pay attention to anything other than a working prototype. However, I don't know anybody with the skills to help me create one. So I figured I would turn to the internet and utilize my networking capabilities to see if maybe, there's someone out there who could help me build this thing. My connections in the gaming industry are few, but strong. I have people I could get a prototype in front of. Even if they're not interested, I own one of the most famous facebook pages in the world, (6.5 million visits a week) and we have a gigantic gaming community. Everything we post on the wall gets seen by 500,000 people in the first day. So creating a kickstarter and trying to crowdfund it (like Star Citizen) is very possible, especially with the following I have. 

 

Now, I know that many people here are just fans of playing games, much like me. I just figured I would post this here and give it a shot. On the off chance that some of you actually have some skills to contribute. 

If you do and you would like to know more, please PM me your email so we can discuss this. I just need some good concept art for the characters and a starting zone, with a working character and basic game functionality. Maybe a 3D animated trailer.  I vow on the Knights of Nine I will get funding for this and your contributions will pay dividends. 

Regards,

Hydrofox

 

  sbanting

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 232

12/18/13 5:55:20 AM#2

There are few problems with this, apart from you only having 1 post on here, so the liekly hood of you being legit are in question, let alone what you claim. You seem to of done none to very little research on how games are made, games need Engines. Engines are the so vital, that a good game could turn into buggy rubbish if the engine isn't up to the job. Now engine wise, there is only a few engines that are powerful enough to run a MMORPG, and then it depends on what you want out of it. As engines go there is only a few free ones, UDK and Unity are the 2 easy to use and very expanable, which is why I don't think you did the research, because neither of them use c++. UDK uses its Unreal Script, and Unity uses C# mainly or Java.

For a working prototype I'd say Unity is the way to go, its not very optimised for large scale MMORPGs, but saying that, I'm not sure there are many that are, unless you get a proper team of programmers to create, or munipulate an Engine to be optimised for such tasks, which obviously takes a lot of money and time, but maybe that isn't where you want the prototype to head. I assume you want the idea to picked up by a proper studio and then they create it to the glory of your idea.

 

So do some research and really look at what you want out of this, and how to get to that end goal. Unity, is easy to use, free or a one time purchase to get advanced features. It wouldn't take too long to create a prototype in that, but you'd still need a full team to create a prototype worth anything. So Sound, UI, Programmers, 3d artists, etc, a little more than just a 3d animator or a programmer :P

  tom_gore

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1789

12/18/13 6:37:52 AM#3

Sorry to pop your bubble, but anyone can make a "great" MMO concept on paper. Hell I'm sure there are dozens of users on this site who could also make a concept of a great MMO.

Making it into a game is a whole another thing.

 

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3070

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

12/18/13 6:48:47 AM#4


Originally posted by sbanting
There are few problems with this, apart from you only having 1 post on here, so the liekly hood of you being legit are in question, let alone what you claim. You seem to of done none to very little research on how games are made, games need Engines. Engines are the so vital, that a good game could turn into buggy rubbish if the engine isn't up to the job. Now engine wise, there is only a few engines that are powerful enough to run a MMORPG, and then it depends on what you want out of it. As engines go there is only a few free ones, UDK and Unity are the 2 easy to use and very expanable, which is why I don't think you did the research, because neither of them use c++. UDK uses its Unreal Script, and Unity uses C# mainly or Java.

Now that, Is totally wrong.

Firstly your definition of an engine is wrong. an engine is merely another word for a program that handles (drives) the various aspects of the game (rendering, logic, sound, ect) that's it. Pong has an engine for instance.

When you describe unity and unreal, they are a package of a toolkit and an engine. the toolkit aspect allows data to be created, loaded and saved in such a way that the engine portion can manipulate.

Both unity and unreal run on a C++ code base but allow for the end user to use higher level languages to improve productivity and flexibility of creating 'content' but in the end its compiled back down to C++ and eventually (through other stages) to machine code.


Originally posted by hydrofox
I have been working on an original idea for an MMORPG for the last 6 years. I have over 40 pages of information from it's lore, to it's world, world map, races, storyline, timeline, etc. it's a really fantastic idea, (or so I've been told by many who heard it) but here is the issue. 

 

After going to college for game design, my professor alerted me to the fact that the gaming industry wont pay attention to anything other than a working prototype. However, I don't know anybody with the skills to help me create one. So I figured I would turn to the internet and utilize my networking capabilities to see if maybe, there's someone out there who could help me build this thing. My connections in the gaming industry are few, but strong. I have people I could get a prototype in front of. Even if they're not interested, I own one of the most famous facebook pages in the world, (6.5 million visits a week) and we have a gigantic gaming community. Everything we post on the wall gets seen by 500,000 people in the first day. So creating a kickstarter and trying to crowdfund it (like Star Citizen) is very possible, especially with the following I have. 

 

Now, I know that many people here are just fans of playing games, much like me. I just figured I would post this here and give it a shot. On the off chance that some of you actually have some skills to contribute. 

If you do and you would like to know more, please PM me your email so we can discuss this. I just need some good concept art for the characters and a starting zone, with a working character and basic game functionality. Maybe a 3D animated trailer.  I vow on the Knights of Nine I will get funding for this and your contributions will pay dividends. 

Regards,

Hydrofox

 


I don't understand what you intend to gain from this, Are you doing this as a business or as a gamer?

There is a million and one ideas out there but what people want to see is implementation. like you have already pointed out in your OP.

Now, Making your prototype is no small feat, There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes (i'm taking about software engineering in general) that is so time consuming and requires multiple people to work on before you see the fruits of your labor.

Labor, in that sense of the word. People will want to get payed for their labor or do you think they are going to work for free? if they do work for free, how do you know they are going to be consistent, professional and write 'good code'?

In all seriousness, if your doing this as a business exercise you are going to need some start up cash (ie money to pay artists and programmers). kickstarter isn't going to help if you don't already have a team and a prototype before you start.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  IDontThinkSoNo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/13
Posts: 63

12/18/13 6:58:03 AM#5
How much are you paying? Is the contract hourly, or yearly?  How long is the contract? 
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9953

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/18/13 8:13:16 AM#6


Originally posted by IDontThinkSoNo
How much are you paying? Is the contract hourly, or yearly?  How long is the contract? 


This is probably the biggest barrier to getting a team together to build a game. People will work for free on their own ideas, but not so much on ideas that they will have no ownership stake in.

You might get other students to work together, kind of a student project or thesis, but you'd have to be willing to give up some ownership or control of the ideas to get buy in from other people if they aren't getting paid.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1747

12/18/13 9:45:29 AM#7

People are going to want to be paid for the work your asking. You will need some start up money to actually hire people.

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1161

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

12/18/13 10:14:45 AM#8

I don't know anything about game mechs other than coloring 3d models with programs like Milkshape.  

 

I've always wondered why games seem to just get built.  If I was going build something I would make a miniature model of it first.  I would think it wouldn't be that much different than real life architecture.  Couldn't one person alone build a small scale model as a teaser to entice others to work on the project?  And getting others to work with you sounds a lot like what people go thru to get a music band together.  A crap load of applicants, rehearsals, and will call you later if we think we need you.  

 

Good luck, man *sincere*.

 

PS:  I would start by pulling other games already made apart and looking at the guts.  Like a car mechanic.  You know how other games work and you'll get an idea how yours will run.  It's a shizload to think about tho.  I hate math takes a damn lot of numbers and organization.

Playing FFXIV-ARR NA:Faerie. Best FC's Mytical Mourning - Rhett or White Lotus - Lotus.

  Mendel

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 609

12/18/13 10:17:37 AM#9

Allow me to suggest that 40 pages of information isn't much of a start.  My effort from 2002-2004 which I aborted due to lack of funding started with over 300 pages of supporting documentation detailing the game I wanted to make.  The bulk of this documentation was directly about the game world -- cities, flora, fauna, people -- but there was a good section about game mechanics -- game systems from combat to containers -- and some guidelines on business issues -- customer support, billing and the like.  I had developed a formal business plan with about 30 pages of purely business information including staffing plans, salaries, marketing plans, estimations of costs, long-term support plans, and other factors.

If you ask someone to code something for you, the more precisely and accurately you can describe what you want, the more likely you are going to be satisfied with the results.  Otherwise, you'll find that your idea of a basic sack for a container (contents limited by XYZ size and weight - like Ultima 7) is suddenly a WoW-a-like container with generic 'slots' for contents.

Good luck with your project.

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  AIMonster

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 1981

12/18/13 10:51:46 AM#10

It's really getting irritating seeing people come on here and ask for other people to do essentially all the work to get their ideas off the ground.  Here's a few things wrong with your post:

1.  You went  to a school for "game design" yet you didn't learn any applicable skills to get started in the field?  I thought most game development degrees taught you a bit of programming or at least how to properly storyboard and conceptualize things.

2.  Your 40 pages of information is mostly useless things that anyone can easily write out.  Design docs usually run from 200 pages (simple games, not MMOs) to 2000+ page monstrosities.  You should have spreadsheets, flow charts, concept art (no matter how simplistic your drawing skills are), fully fleshed out and mapped levels with all interactable objects (learn to use any of the available software out there if you can't draw it out) details.  Details of game mechanics are WAY more important than lore details.  You'll also want to detail the business and project management side of things in your design document or a separate document entirely.  Everything needs to be clearly laid out.

3.  I don't understand why people keep wanting to jump into MMORPG development without first working on more simplistic games.  Start by getting a team together for a great 2D game (or a simpler 3D game) and move on from there.  MMOs (at least successful ones) are something that almost requires that AAA development budget and it's generally going to impossible for someone completely inexperienced to get started on it.

4.  Were you planning on paying developers or waiting till you get that Kickstarter money to pay them?  Just putting together a decent prototype is going to take lots of man hours that I'm sure nobody with strong programming or animation skills is working to work on for free.

5.  Why limit yourself to C++?  Since you don't seem to have any programming skills, wouldn't it be better to let a programmer decide which language to program in, SDK, engine, etc.?  It's generally going to be a lot easier to develop a MMO in Unity for instance than to build a new engine from scratch using C++.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Guler

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/14/05
Posts: 146

12/18/13 11:43:22 AM#11

Some helpful, if not a bit harsh advice.

 

Issue 1: If you are going to school for any degree, game design included, and they are not teaching you technical skills, then change degrees. At that point the degree is essentially a liberal arts degree, and look at the employment rates for things like art history, gender studies, or any other liberal arts degrees. If you want to go to school for "game design" focus on a degree that's going to teach you the hard technical skills, either a business degree for the management side of projects, or a computer science degree for the technical side of projects.

 

Issue 2: As most others have pointed out many people who are good at C++ programming, or any programming language, or are good at 3D animation expect good pay. These people generally can earn 40-80K a year doing application development for programming, or doing advertising work for 3D animation, these are not easy skills to learn, and they aren't always fun skills to apply, which is why people get paid for them.

 

Now this isn't to say it's impossible to put a game development team together, however the founder of the team generally needs to be the most skilled individual, and willing to 'teach' the other team members some of the trade.

 

 

  MrMelGibson

Novice Member

Joined: 12/13/13
Posts: 132

12/18/13 11:53:42 AM#12
Originally posted by AIMonster

It's really getting irritating seeing people come on here and ask for other people to do essentially all the work to get their ideas off the ground.  Here's a few things wrong with your post:

1.  You went  to a school for "game design" yet you didn't learn any applicable skills to get started in the field?  I thought most game development degrees taught you a bit of programming or at least how to properly storyboard and conceptualize things.

2.  Your 40 pages of information is mostly useless things that anyone can easily write out.  Design docs usually run from 200 pages (simple games, not MMOs) to 2000+ page monstrosities.  You should have spreadsheets, flow charts, concept art (no matter how simplistic your drawing skills are), fully fleshed out and mapped levels with all interactable objects (learn to use any of the available software out there if you can't draw it out) details.  Details of game mechanics are WAY more important than lore details.  You'll also want to detail the business and project management side of things in your design document or a separate document entirely.  Everything needs to be clearly laid out.

3.  I don't understand why people keep wanting to jump into MMORPG development without first working on more simplistic games.  Start by getting a team together for a great 2D game (or a simpler 3D game) and move on from there.  MMOs (at least successful ones) are something that almost requires that AAA development budget and it's generally going to impossible for someone completely inexperienced to get started on it.

4.  Were you planning on paying developers or waiting till you get that Kickstarter money to pay them?  Just putting together a decent prototype is going to take lots of man hours that I'm sure nobody with strong programming or animation skills is working to work on for free.

5.  Why limit yourself to C++?  Since you don't seem to have any programming skills, wouldn't it be better to let a programmer decide which language to program in, SDK, engine, etc.?  It's generally going to be a lot easier to develop a MMO in Unity for instance than to build a new engine from scratch using C++.

A lot of good points.  When I read he had 40 pages of information.  I immediately thought how in the world is that going to make an mmo?  Maybe an android app that when you touch the screen it makes fart noises.  MMOs are huge and extremely difficult to make.  Sounds like OP set up his router and now wants to manage a major network based off the port fowarding experience he has.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 12768

12/18/13 7:00:27 PM#13
Why would anyone capable of making a game want to make your game rather than making his own?  If you're paying well, that's a good reason.  But other than that?  That's what kills most amateur attempts at a game.
  Cleffy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/09/04
Posts: 5364

1/25/14 10:37:52 AM#14
Learn to program or create 3D assets first. No one wants to take orders from a 'Game Designer' for free. Everyone who has knowledge on programming or asset creation will also have their own Game Design that is often just as good. In a group you need to be more than just the idea guy, and for mmorpgs its doubly so. Even for a game that has a hundred million budget, there is no one who is just the idea guy. At best its a management type position or someone who can gather funds. If you want to be a lead game designer its much more about being a good manager than coming up with the best possible skill balance.
  Magnetia

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 960

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.

1/25/14 10:58:28 AM#15

I know a guy in my gaming class which is just like you. Talks big on ideas and about 'how he's been working on this game for years'.

The reality is that none of the information he gave me to read had anything useful for game development. You need detailed descriptions of mechanics and features, while initial versions of the design document might not need detailed spreadsheets but if you are designing an MMO, I mean a real one, then you need to sit the hell down learn maths and study MMOs. 

How long should it take to level? Should players have access to a wide variety of weapons or a select few that evolve? What will be your algorithm for loot drops? What type of players do you want to attract? Is there already something like this on the market?

I'm a gaming student too with great ideas (we all have great ideas don't we? lol) but I also know my own limits and abilities.

While making games is an art form it is also a business. Make a normal game first, hell make a mobile game and hope it's the next candy crush.

You know what? Go study candy crush. Shun it all you want about how casual it is but their mountains of cash don't care about your great ideas.

I wish you luck and really do hope you get a team together. I expect you to be able to at least program basic mechanics or at least have in mind how you will code it.

Here's a link to my terrible 3d animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TJtnQB1Z8k

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?