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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » I see why this game fell off hard.

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335 posts found
  marcuslm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/05
Posts: 233

12/18/13 9:36:09 AM#261
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

Actually levelling down is one of my most hated features- it makes a complete nonsense of the entire levelling process- it is beyond moronic.  If you are going to arbitrarily change a players level to suit the area they are in, why not get rid of traditional levels all together? 

Agreed

When I first heard about this particular feature I thought it was a good idea. Now I could go into these other areas and see them without waiting to level up. The reality was something different. I found that I missed the idea of there being areas that are dangerous. The scene in The Lord of the Rings where they realize the hobbits ran off into Fangorn Forrest (however it's spelled) comes to mind. It creates drama. You know that feeling you get when you have accidentally wandered into a dangerous area?

I came to realize this about several things with GW2, the ideas sounded a whole lot better on paper than they ended up being in reality. Every once in a while I will jump in, but I usually don't stay very long. It's just not very fun.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2707

There... are... four... lights!

12/18/13 9:38:09 AM#262
Originally posted by doodphace

I am guessing you have not played WoW since they added gathering XP in cata, if you are under the impression that it is completely unreasonable to level a toon soly on gathering/professions.

Ah the "if you don't agree with me, you must not be playing" non-argument now. I'm playing right now, my both WoW accounts are active.

Heck, these very same forums laughed at WoW for the following:

http://kotaku.com/5952018/after-twelve-days-wow-player-hits-level-90-without-killing-anything

As I said earlier, there are folks in my guild who did just that, in a more than comparable amount of time quests would have taken.

The XP from crafting is still pathetic, even with the cataclysm changes. Is it doable? Sure, people have done even more silly things in WoW and many other games. Is it as fast as questing and dungeoning? Definitely not. Hint: you do not need 12 days /played to hit 90 with dungeons and quests.

GW2's gathering/crafting XP is VASTLY superior.

See, you can't cheat me on that since I'm playing the game. I witness those things first hand.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  aspectofgore

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/13
Posts: 17

12/18/13 9:41:39 AM#263
It's a nice game.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1406

12/18/13 10:38:17 AM#264
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by doodphace

I am guessing you have not played WoW since they added gathering XP in cata, if you are under the impression that it is completely unreasonable to level a toon soly on gathering/professions.

Ah the "if you don't agree with me, you must not be playing" non-argument now. I'm playing right now, my both WoW accounts are active.

Heck, these very same forums laughed at WoW for the following:

http://kotaku.com/5952018/after-twelve-days-wow-player-hits-level-90-without-killing-anything

As I said earlier, there are folks in my guild who did just that, in a more than comparable amount of time quests would have taken.

The XP from crafting is still pathetic, even with the cataclysm changes. Is it doable? Sure, people have done even more silly things in WoW and many other games. Is it as fast as questing and dungeoning? Definitely not. Hint: you do not need 12 days /played to hit 90 with dungeons and quests.

GW2's gathering/crafting XP is VASTLY superior.

See, you can't cheat me on that since I'm playing the game. I witness those things first hand.

They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".

Please put your straw man away.

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

12/18/13 10:47:10 AM#265
Originally posted by marcuslm
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

Actually levelling down is one of my most hated features- it makes a complete nonsense of the entire levelling process- it is beyond moronic.  If you are going to arbitrarily change a players level to suit the area they are in, why not get rid of traditional levels all together? 

Agreed

When I first heard about this particular feature I thought it was a good idea. Now I could go into these other areas and see them without waiting to level up. The reality was something different. I found that I missed the idea of there being areas that are dangerous. The scene in The Lord of the Rings where they realize the hobbits ran off into Fangorn Forrest (however it's spelled) comes to mind. It creates drama. You know that feeling you get when you have accidentally wandered into a dangerous area?

I came to realize this about several things with GW2, the ideas sounded a whole lot better on paper than they ended up being in reality. Every once in a while I will jump in, but I usually don't stay very long. It's just not very fun.

Are you agreeing, disagreeing, or being sarcastic? Serious question and cause I know we all make mistakes I did in this thread from the start. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm missing something.

 

Must of been a feature of another game that your using as an example to agreeing.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2707

There... are... four... lights!

12/18/13 10:51:37 AM#266
Originally posted by doodphace

They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".

Please put your straw man away.

I could post pictures of my level 90 characters, or of the new Monk I'm leveling right now, but you would of course still call me a liar and pretend they are fake.

So I'm going to do what must be done with people repeating total misinformation on this forum: use the block list. Because anyone playing both WoW and GW2 knows that what you post is misinformation, intentionally inflating the importance of a feature in one game just to bash or belittle another game.

 

I will still repeat this undeniable fact for you to think about and for the other readers too:

 

You do not need 12 days /played to level to 90 with a brand new character in WoW when you do quests and dungeons, unlike the guy you linked who levelled only via gathering/crafting.

 

It's painfully slow and non efficient, and the regular way (quests+dungeons) is at least 2x faster if you're really slow, 3x faster for the normal player. To the opposite, in GW2, you can get to max level simply through gathering/crafting and it's just as fast (if not faster) than questing and dungeoning.

That's facts. Everything else is misinformation.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1406

12/18/13 11:00:42 AM#267
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by doodphace

They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".

Please put your straw man away.

I could post pictures of my level 90 characters, or of the new Monk I'm leveling right now, but you would of course still call me a liar and pretend they are fake.

So I'm going to do what must be done with people repeating total misinformation on this forum: use the block list. Because anyone playing both WoW and GW2 knows that what you post is misinformation, intentionally inflating the importance of a feature in one game just to bash or belittle another game.

 

I will still repeat this undeniable fact for you to think about and for the other readers too:

 

You do not need 12 days /played to level to 90 with a brand new character in WoW when you do quests and dungeons, unlike the guy you linked who levelled only via gathering/crafting.

 

It's painfully slow and non efficient, and the regular way (quests+dungeons) is at least 2x faster if you're really slow, 3x faster for the normal player. To the opposite, in GW2, you can get to max level simply through gathering/crafting and it's just as fast (if not faster) than questing and dungeoning.

That's facts. Everything else is misinformation.

No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons).
 Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2. And as a side note, I dont think that you should be bragging about being able to level ifaster in GW2 than wow with proffs...

And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.

Again, please stop with the straw man argument.

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

12/18/13 11:03:53 AM#268

The XP from crafting is still pathetic, even with the cataclysm changes. Is it doable? Sure, people have done even more silly things in WoW and many other games. Is it as fast as questing and dungeoning? Definitely not. Hint: you do not need 12 days /played to hit 90 with dungeons and quests.

GW2's gathering/crafting XP is VASTLY superior.

See, you can't cheat me on that since I'm playing the game. I witness those things first hand.

I don't get why people think they should get class levels for crafting. That's what crafting skill levels are for. If you're crafting to become a level 90 rogue crafting is not for you.

  whisperwynd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1365

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

12/18/13 11:06:41 AM#269
Originally posted by doodphace

No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons).
 Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2.

And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.

Again, please stop with the straw man argument.

The main difference with gathering/crafting is that in WoW you only get xp from gathering. In GW2, you can lvl just by crafting providing you have enough mats, say from another toon that gathered them all.

  The rest is all valid and dependent on what each player enjoys doing.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1406

12/18/13 11:09:53 AM#270
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by doodphace

No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons).
 Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2.

And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.

Again, please stop with the straw man argument.

The main difference with gathering/crafting is that in WoW you only get xp from gathering. In GW2, you can lvl just by crafting providing you have enough mats, say from another toon that gathered them all.

  The rest is all valid and dependent on what each player enjoys doing.

+1

  GMan33

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/05
Posts: 78

12/18/13 11:25:49 AM#271
Originally posted by Wingeye
I know right. Why should people care if their efforts produce results or not. Plenty of people are content mowing their lawn for 2 hours only to find no grass was cut at all. GW2 in a nutshell.

lol.... exactly +1 for the metaphor

 

Yup that pretty much sums up my feeling of GW2. Its a fast food mmo, absolutely no legs for a long term game. I hate the non-trinity system they put in, absolutely hate it in every sense. There is nothing for someone who actually wants to advance their character to play. Just buy your 80 gear off market the second you 80 and your done.

Never once by killing any mob, any named boss, any dungeon, any dragon has dropped anything of any significant excitement to look at.

Its like you said, its a game built to just "play" but you get absolutely nothing in return for your investment....a complete waste of time in the video game sense of terms. But some like it.....

I would actually rather play SWTOR then this, and I don't like SWTOR.

 

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 605

12/18/13 11:33:07 AM#272
Originally posted by Wingeye
I know right. Why should people care if their efforts produce results or not. Plenty of people are content mowing their lawn for 2 hours only to find no grass was cut at all. GW2 in a nutshell.

lol.... exactly +1 for the metaphor

Agreed. Best metaphor ever!!!!!

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Moirae

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2577

12/18/13 11:39:45 AM#273

It fell off because it's just like all the other games out there with some small gimmicks added. Frankly, its slightly better than Everquest 2 in some ways and worse in others. But that's the case with every other game out there.

 

These game companies come out screaming about how they're "Next Gen" when most of them don't have even the remotest clue what that actually means. It's like none of them have bothered to EVER talk to any players in the last 15 years. 

 

It's quite amazing really... many thousands of websites dealing with MMO's like MMORPG but it feels like most of the developers and publishers don't bother to listen. There's a reason people keep going back to the older games... because the older games actually offer more than any current game out there. 

 

To be fair, there are a few companies out there trying to improve on whats offered but there are no indications that they actually have as none of these games have actually been released to try them out. Most of them have been in development for almost a decade and many are considered vaporware. Why? Because the developers in them got sick to death of the behavior of the publishers and took it upon themselves to develop these games with a fraction of the money that the publishers have supplied and are relying on donations in good faith from players. 

 

I really think this genre is in danger of imploding. And its going to happen with a relative bang with the creators of these games shocked when it finally occurs. 

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2707

There... are... four... lights!

12/18/13 11:42:58 AM#274
Originally posted by doodphace
And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.

And you are conveniently ignoring the fact that we talk about "/played" time, aka time spent in game, which is completely unrelated to the amount of hours played each day.

But I was expecting something like that, another misinformation attempt.

This time I haven't forgotten to press the "block" link. Not only you post nonsense, but you are starting to be repetitive and rude. Not worth my time.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Kenaoshi

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/21/09
Posts: 1008

12/18/13 11:43:28 AM#275

I think its silly in both games 

"Hi i am CONAN the mighty warrior who spend his whole life knitting inside city walls. lets take down that giant dragon over there even tough  i never killed 1 mouse" 

now: GW2 (8 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2707

There... are... four... lights!

12/18/13 11:47:50 AM#276
Originally posted by Kenaoshi

I think its silly in both games 

"Hi i am CONAN the mighty warrior who spend his whole life knitting inside city walls. lets take down that giant dragon over there even tough  i never killed 1 mouse" 

I agree with that actually, but we were talking about how games like GW2 and WoW work.

My favorite system remains Ultima Online, where you raise your sword skill by actually using a sword, bow by using a bow, defense by taking hits, and cooking by cooking stuff, but there's no such thing as "levels" you can gain doing all this randomly. This makes 100% crafting characters possible without them still having the skill of an elite warrior.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  epoq

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 173

12/18/13 11:53:50 AM#277
Originally posted by Moirae

It fell off because it's just like all the other games out there with some small gimmicks added. Frankly, its slightly better than Everquest 2 in some ways and worse in others. But that's the case with every other game out there.

 

These game companies come out screaming about how they're "Next Gen" when most of them don't have even the remotest clue what that actually means. It's like none of them have bothered to EVER talk to any players in the last 15 years. 

 

It's quite amazing really... many thousands of websites dealing with MMO's like MMORPG but it feels like most of the developers and publishers don't bother to listen. There's a reason people keep going back to the older games... because the older games actually offer more than any current game out there. 

 

To be fair, there are a few companies out there trying to improve on whats offered but there are no indications that they actually have as none of these games have actually been released to try them out. Most of them have been in development for almost a decade and many are considered vaporware. Why? Because the developers in them got sick to death of the behavior of the publishers and took it upon themselves to develop these games with a fraction of the money that the publishers have supplied and are relying on donations in good faith from players. 

 

I really think this genre is in danger of imploding. And its going to happen with a relative bang with the creators of these games shocked when it finally occurs. 

It has a much better PvP system than EQ2.  PvE wise though, EQ2 FTW.  Much, much, much more content having been out all of these years.  EQ2 is still pretty quest grindy just the same, but with the vast number of dungeons and continents there is a lot more of an exploration piece to it.

That being said, I've flipped between the 2 on multiple occasions and leveled characters to max, did some PvP, some raiding, and ultimately quit fairly soon thereafter.  Neither seems to really be able to keep my attention once the level grind is done with.  EQ2 has a better "end game" due to the fact that it has a freshly released expansion but I still don't find the new raids to be all that fun or innovative.  And honestly, I never thought GW2's dungeons were very noteworthy.

I think all of this "same game, different skin" MMO nonsense has me shifting from the genre.  I am more interested right now in the potential of DayZ standalone (once it's polished) as well as The Division.  Having played in the TESO beta, I don't see a lot of innovation brought to the table there either.  Have yet to try Wildstar so I cannot comment on that yet, but I do have some hopes that it will be fun enough to keep my attention for a bit when it releases.  I am also interested to see what Brad McQuaid brings to the table in January with his Kickstarter MMO, but who knows how that will go.

  Moirae

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2577

12/18/13 12:01:19 PM#278
Originally posted by epoq
Originally posted by Moirae

It fell off because it's just like all the other games out there with some small gimmicks added. Frankly, its slightly better than Everquest 2 in some ways and worse in others. But that's the case with every other game out there.

 

These game companies come out screaming about how they're "Next Gen" when most of them don't have even the remotest clue what that actually means. It's like none of them have bothered to EVER talk to any players in the last 15 years. 

 

It's quite amazing really... many thousands of websites dealing with MMO's like MMORPG but it feels like most of the developers and publishers don't bother to listen. There's a reason people keep going back to the older games... because the older games actually offer more than any current game out there. 

 

To be fair, there are a few companies out there trying to improve on whats offered but there are no indications that they actually have as none of these games have actually been released to try them out. Most of them have been in development for almost a decade and many are considered vaporware. Why? Because the developers in them got sick to death of the behavior of the publishers and took it upon themselves to develop these games with a fraction of the money that the publishers have supplied and are relying on donations in good faith from players. 

 

I really think this genre is in danger of imploding. And its going to happen with a relative bang with the creators of these games shocked when it finally occurs. 

It has a much better PvP system than EQ2.  PvE wise though, EQ2 FTW.  Much, much, much more content having been out all of these years.  EQ2 is still pretty quest grindy just the same, but with the vast number of dungeons and continents there is a lot more of an exploration piece to it.

That being said, I've flipped between the 2 on multiple occasions and leveled characters to max, did some PvP, some raiding, and ultimately quit fairly soon thereafter.  Neither seems to really be able to keep my attention once the level grind is done with.  EQ2 has a better "end game" due to the fact that it has a freshly released expansion but I still don't find the new raids to be all that fun or innovative.  And honestly, I never thought GW2's dungeons were very noteworthy.

I think all of this "same game, different skin" MMO nonsense has me shifting from the genre.  I am more interested right now in the potential of DayZ standalone (once it's polished) as well as The Division.  Having played in the TESO beta, I don't see a lot of innovation brought to the table there either.  Have yet to try Wildstar so I cannot comment on that yet, but I do have some hopes that it will be fun enough to keep my attention for a bit when it releases.  I am also interested to see what Brad McQuaid brings to the table in January with his Kickstarter MMO, but who knows how that will go.

I've hardly logged into an MMO in the past month. Even SWTOR (I LOVE Star Wars but I'm bored with it and the newest "free expansion" with the horrible space battles didn't help in the least) . I've been finding that I'm going back and playing ME, the Sims 3, Skyrim and the like. 

  whisperwynd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1365

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

12/18/13 12:01:22 PM#279
Originally posted by Kenaoshi

I think its silly in both games 

"Hi i am CONAN the mighty warrior who spend his whole life knitting inside city walls. lets take down that giant dragon over there even tough  i never killed 1 mouse" 

I can agree with this also, though some won't and cite how 'realistic' other things in fantasy games are (sarcastically of course). There are extremes and some games make it easy for players to reach max lvl faster since that's how their game is built.

If a game came out too realistic, it'd probably garner a niche crowd at best since many players just want fun (very subjective term) and not the 'realism' of real life common sense, 

 Even some 'realistic' survival games, Rust comes to mind. It's imperative to find food, build a crude shelter, build a fire and gather resources to survive. Yet, with a few metal scraps, you can create a 9mm.....huh? Not very 'realistic' in that sense.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4592

12/18/13 12:04:14 PM#280

Both leveling systems have their pros and cons. In this forum, particularly, Quest Hub Leveling has taken a beating. But I think it's not entirely justified.

Yes WoW's quest hub leveling is linear. Especially when it involves phasing. But it also has advantages where GW2's DE system is severely lacking.

WoW ties specific rewards to specific quests to address players needs exactly where they are at their given level. The reward system in GW2 is random with low drop rates and cannot be tied to character's progress since they are all repeatable. Also, WoW uses this linear questing to advance the story and lore in the open world. GW2 had to hide that behind the Personal Story Which by many (me included) happens to be considered one of the weakest parts of GW2 leveling. The problem here is (as I see it) you can't have GW2's awesome leveling experience with the open world exploring without the awful singe player experience of the personal story to make up for the fact that it's exceedingly difficult to advance a story and lore in a repeatable self contained scenario that may or may not be experienced by every player......Or possibly re experienced many times over.

 

If all you are doing is power leveling and don't care about gear, rewards, lore or story. It's GW2 hands down. But if you do care about any of those, then GW2 starts to lose some of it's edge.

But, yeah, Dynamic Events come with a dark side.......Personal Story. (cant have one without the other)  But I've never seen anyone consider this when they sing DE's praises or when they bash Hubs.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

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