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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Why does TESO have such a split reaction?

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191 posts found
  Deivos

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1701

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

12/10/13 8:04:32 PM#101

For me it's that the game is functionally nothing of what I really desire out of a 'multiplayer' elder scrolls title.

 

People refer to the combat and play feeling like Skyrim, and I have a bit of contention with that as well.

Superficially yes it does mirror the previous Elder Scrolls titles. First/third person combat with mouse controlling basic attacks and a blocking mechanic. That's about as far as it goes though really. The problem becomes how the combat flows, feels, and is tuned.

For example, Chivalry, War of the Roses, and Mount & Blade are all games that technically live alongside one another in mechanics, yet their ultimate details differentiate them somewhat dramatically when you get to 'how' you're hitting another person.

 

From the draw of a bow to the swing of a sword, these things have plenty of details that can change the way it feels. This affects also how functional and comfortable many things are.

Like if you part out the knocking of a bow, it creates a lag time before you can even draw to fire. Sometimes this adds to immersion, sometimes it cripples a weapon that may very well have other penalties already, such as commonly having reduced damage.

 

The way they handle the races and factions, the continued use of an isolated character narrative within a world supposedly populated by many, the reduction of all the effort Bethesda puts into making the worlds more 'alive' for the sake of traditional mmorpg progression, mechanics, and play. And indeed, the ability to introduce my own customization and modifications to the world, be it within a finite or great scope.

 

It's many little things that simply don't sit well with me, that ultimately don't let me define this game as part of the elder scrolls series so much as it's simply wearing it's skin.

 

Also though, why I don't tend to post about this stuff. Or much of anything else. Because the moment toy reach past the mechanical details to how an individual person feels about something, the conversation becomes a back and forth about feelings and not the actual title in question.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  Rinna

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/04
Posts: 386

12/10/13 8:25:21 PM#102
Originally posted by crasset15
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by crasset15

They are essentially watering it down and taking as many shortcuts as possible in the gameplay department, because all their resources are being used on making the themepark rides attractive. If you ignore the themepark rides, the world is just an empty shell with nothing to do in it.

I can already predict the lack of content complaints 2 months after release, because there isn't much in this game besides the themepark rides. If there was something, they would have promoed it. So expect to have a choice between forum whining, running the same dungeons over and over, and pvping in cyrodiil, because that's all they are launching with, plus the themepark content to level 50.

 

And you know this from getting to level 17 in the last BETA?  Or are you just giving us your uneducated opinion on a game you know nothing about and copy/pasting other taking points with no specifics just generic talking points that have ZERO facts or proof to back them up.

My opinion is very educated actually, I've been following every bit of news about this game. Also, it's called common sense. You don't need facts and proof to predict the overall direction and focus of this game and its developers. If you do, I feel sorry for you.

You're entitled to your opinion, but your statements are incorrect.

No bitchers.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

12/10/13 8:28:23 PM#103

Given the game isn't even out, I guess there are three possible reason:

 

(1) Skyrim set the bar very high. It was/is a VERY popular and successfull game, I'd even say one of the most influental games of many years. Just see how many people make fanstuff, videos, music, painting and whatnot about it. So most people feel compared to the very high standard of Skyrim a "normal" MMO can just be a setback.

 

(2) After years and years playing the same old MMO types, so far Elder Scrolls plays too safe, or so it seems. There is little really new or changed, but the n-th manifestation  of the EQ/WoW formula.

 

(3) After so many flops or half-flops MMO gamers are understandably skeptical now.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 409

12/10/13 9:05:57 PM#104

Bottom line is its a watered down version of both.

 

 

  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 863

12/10/13 9:23:16 PM#105
This is a game that will dash itself against the cliffs of jadedness and expectation and either drain away over the old, stalwart stones of staid structure or find strength within the cracks of hope harbored by the faithful and blossom, in nuanced verdance, into a resplendant renewal of those venerated virtues that were thought to be it's downfall.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Atadis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/08/12
Posts: 35

12/10/13 9:33:46 PM#106
Dang I didn't realize people hated this one so bad. I am a pretty big TES fan myself and play MMO's regularly and I actually enjoyed what I saw from TESO. I can see why some people didn't and some people seemed to think the game was out for release or something when I was playing the beta. IT"S BETA...lol. That aside I really dunno why there are so many split on whether or not they like the game. I think people got too hyped up for something great. A lot of what I read before hand was untrue about the game and yes it wasn't as amazing as people claimed it to be but then again I've learned to ignore people who over-hype games. I think it will actually be a solid title myself. Never judge something too early. I think Skyrim has a lot to do with how a lot of people perceive The Elder Scrolls series as well. People hyped Skyrim to a mainstream level forgetting it had a huge 5(V) in the title. I mean if you look at something like Arena and where Skyrim is today the heart of the lore and story is where The Elder Scrolls' greatness lies not in how it's mechanics.
  Sleepyfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 322

12/11/13 12:26:11 AM#107
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by TibernicuspaAnd I think most people who claim to dislike PvP just haven't played a good PvP game (as there have been precious few).

I think most people who don't like pvp don't like it because of some of the people involved, "regardless' of whether it's a good pvp game or not. Which is entirely subjective.

Exactly is all subjective.

 

I think most people that I know that don't like pvp is because they like pve better.  To make a broad statement and act like its fact is rediculous.  Just because someone claims they don't like pvp has nothing to do with them not playing a particular pvp game that you think (again not fact that what you think is a good pvp game others will) is good.  

I love PVP but don't like the DAOC RVR system, never have really. It is not a real big sell in the OWpvp crowd I think,  thats a problem lots of us had with DOAC when it was new. Every group of old school gamers have formed up into essentially teams of niche groups. When they see something resembling their old outdated game with 64 bit graphics they jump on anyone not thinking its the best game ever made. 

Plenty of people who love PVP will hate this game because it looks too much like an acquired taste. Which looks like it may be true as well for the PVE in the game. 

  Pigglesworth

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 265

12/11/13 8:53:51 AM#108
Definitely looking forward to making my character fat.

@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  Flyte27

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

12/11/13 10:01:49 AM#109
I feel this game is too much like SWTOR and other games of that ilk.  Basically you grab quests and follow them around endlessly.  Some times there are random quests, but they aren't that much better.  Basically it doesn't allow much freedom to do what you want to do.  Ultima Online was probably the closest thing to the Elder Scrolls, but there haven't been many companies willing to try the sandbox model.  They don't want people to have that much control over the fate of the game.  Basically being able to build houses, kill people, steal from people, spend your time crafting, hunting, or whatever it is you want to do is off limits.  They want you to follow the path they choose.  This is great for mindless people with no imagination.  It sucks for people who want to be creative in any way.  You just have to look at the abilities list and see how boring they are.  For instance there are no fun spells like levitate, water breathing, illusion, etc.  It's all balanced around PvP which restricts things heavily.  Everquest and Ulitma Online had a lot of fun spells.  Things like I mentioned in addition to teleportation, caves with ice that makes you slide, and underwater dungeons.  MMOs these days are basically jump in, pick up a quest, use your generic balanced abilities to complete your quest or PvP, move on to the next quest, etc.  That is not an enjoyable experience unless you are a mindless dolt.  Even World of Warcraft had more things aimed at a fun experience + creativity.  MMOs these days are about controlling the player base and getting them to buy things through micro transactions IMO.
  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2526

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

12/11/13 10:05:41 AM#110
Originally posted by Sovrath

Is it a division between MMO players and hardcore TES fans?

yes

And those on the mmo side are concerned that it will be just another WoW clone.

 Once anyone that has not played, does, they will not be able to use the WoW clone card as it is nothing like WoW. I find it feels and looks like TES. Just  being honest not sure why so many people are lieing.

  Flyte27

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

12/11/13 10:15:51 AM#111
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Sovrath

Is it a division between MMO players and hardcore TES fans?

yes

And those on the mmo side are concerned that it will be just another WoW clone.

 Once anyone that has not played, does, they will not be able to use the WoW clone card as it is nothing like WoW. I find it feels and looks like TES. Just  being honest not sure why so many people are lieing.

Personally I find that WoW feels better.  The combat system isn't very enjoyable in either.  It does feel like a themepark to me though.  Elder scrolls generally lets you do whatever you want to do like Ultima Online did.  This game is more of a follow the quests and PvP like most MMOs these days.  There is no sandbox to it.  Sandbox is what the Elder Scrolls games have been about for the most part.  Not as much the lore, the races, etc.  The combat feels pretty different and the skill system is not really a skill system again like (Ulitma Online was).  It's more of a class system with the ability to choose whatever weapon you want to use.

  collekt

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/05/13
Posts: 203

12/11/13 10:53:53 AM#112
I still don't understand why people get all up in arms about the differences between ESO and the single player Elder Scrolls games. Seriously? Sure it's the same IP, but ESO is not a single player game and to expect it to play exactly like one is beyond retarded.
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15111

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/11/13 11:09:53 AM#113
Originally posted by Flyte27
 

Personally I find that WoW feels better.  The combat system isn't very enjoyable in either.  It does feel like a themepark to me though.  Elder scrolls generally lets you do whatever you want to do like Ultima Online did.  This game is more of a follow the quests and PvP like most MMOs these days.  There is no sandbox to it.  Sandbox is what the Elder Scrolls games have been about for the most part.  Not as much the lore, the races, etc.  The combat feels pretty different and the skill system is not really a skill system again like (Ulitma Online was).  It's more of a class system with the ability to choose whatever weapon you want to use.

What exactly can you do in TES games outside of questing that you can't do in most theme-park MMORPGs to date?  To me the freedom in TES games is far too overblown on this forum. The only real difference is in how questing is presented, in TES you can do any quest line at any time. IN an MMORPG, your options are limited due to the fact the game world doesn't scale along with an individual player.

Once you've done the quests in a TES entry and have completed the factions, there really isn't much left to the game, you can roleplay, but that's not exactly an option missing in an MMO. To compare it to the options in UO is just wrong IMO, UO focused on activities like building and community, things lacking in a TES game.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Tindale111

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/21/12
Posts: 176

12/11/13 11:19:14 AM#114
One thing id really like to know ,does it feel as open as say EQ2 or is it as linear as NW .Im not expecting it to be to much like skyrim but for me the world need to be open and explorable .
  Flyte27

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

12/11/13 11:25:37 AM#115
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Flyte27
 

Personally I find that WoW feels better.  The combat system isn't very enjoyable in either.  It does feel like a themepark to me though.  Elder scrolls generally lets you do whatever you want to do like Ultima Online did.  This game is more of a follow the quests and PvP like most MMOs these days.  There is no sandbox to it.  Sandbox is what the Elder Scrolls games have been about for the most part.  Not as much the lore, the races, etc.  The combat feels pretty different and the skill system is not really a skill system again like (Ulitma Online was).  It's more of a class system with the ability to choose whatever weapon you want to use.

What exactly can you do in TES games outside of questing that you can't do in most theme-park MMORPGs to date?  To me the freedom in TES games is far too overblown on this forum. The only real difference is in how questing is presented, in TES you can do any quest line at any time. IN an MMORPG, your options are limited due to the fact the game world doesn't scale along with an individual player.

Once you've done the quests in a TES entry and have completed the factions, there really isn't much left to the game, you can roleplay, but that's not exactly an option missing in an MMO. To compare it to the options in UO is just wrong IMO, UO focused on activities like building and community, things lacking in a TES game.

The problem is following quests around isn't a fun experience.  Especially if you have played WoW or it's many clones lots of times.  Having random quests pop up doesn't remove the problem.  I'll admit Skyrim wasn't that much different in terms of following quests, but you didn't have to follow quests.  You could just run around and do whatever you wanted to for the most part.  You could just go around stealing things from people.  You could spend the whole time just crafting.  There was the ability to go underwater (though it didn't add up to what I would have liked in sea exploration anyway I'll admit).  I guess what I was hoping for was something more of a Sandbox.  Something where you are dropped in a world and do what you want to do.  Something where you have to actually use your brain/imagination a little bit.  I find that sandbox games build more community and people tend to stick around.  Theme park games/controlled PVP with boring generic balanced skills get boring and it's anyone's guess why people stick around at all if they have played such games before.  They are very limited in what you can do outside of questing/PvP all the same path as everyone else.

 

  -aLpHa-

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 856

12/11/13 11:27:31 AM#116

After playing the game at the gamescom booth i was really shocked how bad the combat felt, i knew from several video presentations that the animations looked really sluggish but live playing it left a bad taste in my mouth.

I can live with sub par graphics but fucking up a key gameplay component like combat i cannot forgive.

And Bethesda should start hiring people who actually have a clue about making decent animations.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

12/11/13 11:41:38 AM#117

I haven't checked out TESO recently....so my information admitedly might be a bit dated.  However, my impression when I did check it out was that it didn't represent the spirit of the Elder Scrolls games very well. It seemed, to me, that what they really wanted was the name recognition that the IP would bring.....not the gameplay value that the IP represented and could easly have substituted any other big name IP and with a few tweaks ended up with pretty much the same game as TESO. For most hardcore fans of the IP, that's really a killler.

Now there is a group of MMO players that are really interested in the type of game that TESO was being built to be.....and really wanted to play it regardless of what IP was stuck on top of it....they were the ones strongly in favor of it.

That's my (admitedly dated) impression of the split.

 

Personaly,  I'm not really interested in an MMO version of Elder Scrolls. I'd love another single player installement in the series and I'd really love an Elder Scrolls multi-player, co-op game....where you could host your own private servers to play with something like 4-64 other players....something akin to the old NeverWinter Nights 2 style game. I'm not really interested in seeing the sort of changes that end up taking place when you transition Elder Scrolls to an MMO.

Personaly, I think MMO's are better off staying away from most well established IP's as often times it's very difficult to do the IP's justice when switching mediums.

 

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

12/11/13 11:41:43 AM#118

For me personally, my reaction comes from the fact that I was wanting an Elder Scrolls MMO, not a remake of DAOC with the ES IP thrown over it for sales recognition.

 

Race=Faction, 3 separate Faction locked PvE zones, Central/Isolated 3 Faction PvP Area.

Thats DAOC. Not Elder Scrolls

I didnt like DAOC. WAR sucked. I never liked how Mythic did things and I think the Devs that came from that company rank right up there with Cryptic Studios.

ZOS is just a Mythic v1.5

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15111

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/11/13 11:58:28 AM#119
Originally posted by Flyte27

The problem is following quests around isn't a fun experience.  Especially if you have played WoW or it's many clones lots of times.  Having random quests pop up doesn't remove the problem.  I'll admit Skyrim wasn't that much different in terms of following quests, but you didn't have to follow quests.  You could just run around and do whatever you wanted to for the most part.  You could just go around stealing things from people.  You could spend the whole time just crafting.  There was the ability to go underwater (though it didn't add up to what I would have liked in sea exploration anyway I'll admit).  I guess what I was hoping for was something more of a Sandbox.  Something where you are dropped in a world and do what you want to do.  Something where you have to actually use your brain/imagination a little bit.  I find that sandbox games build more community and people tend to stick around.  Theme park games/controlled PVP with boring generic balanced skills get boring and it's anyone's guess why people stick around at all if they have played such games before.  They are very limited in what you can do outside of questing/PvP all the same path as everyone else.

 

They say the thieves guild will make it's way into the game as well as the Dark Brotherhood. On the stealing front that may bring something to the table in that regard. On that topic you're correct you can't do that here or most other MMOs.

As for crafting I'd argue that aspect has a deeper purpose in an MMO, which may actually heighten that experience for those who want it.

IF you're not into their idea of PVP I can understand not having a good impression of their design. This definitely isn't the UO fans or SWG fans next home that's for sure.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16940

12/11/13 12:05:55 PM#120
Originally posted by makasouleater69

   Not to mention that vanguard saga of heros, has better graphics then ESO, and is more true to being realistic and skyrim style then ESO. 

um, I"m a huge fan of Vanguard AND still pay a sub and I can say "no it doesn't".

 

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