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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Will Wildstar remain viable as a subscription game?

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76 posts found
  ElRenmazuo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4318

12/07/13 6:48:23 PM#61
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

The games that are successful/stable do not generally go FTP.

DAoC, AC, Eve, all still subs.

Add final fantasy 11 to that too

https://33.media.tumblr.com/262c40940b3181ade1001120dd379aaa/tumblr_nfrzn853rR1rz64nto6_r1_400.gif

  Retired

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/08
Posts: 745

12/07/13 6:50:46 PM#62
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

The games that are successful/stable do not generally go FTP.

DAoC, AC, Eve, all still subs.

Add final fantasy 11 to that too

Remember FF11 already failed and rebooted. WOW, DAOC, AC and EVE are not recent titles, I have discussed age playing a part in other threads (can click on my name to look up the post). Anything that comes out current day, SWTOR, Aion, TERA, LOTRO, Conan, Vanguard, Rift, DDO,  DC Universe, will not last on subscription forever and eventually go F2P.

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1276

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

12/07/13 6:58:38 PM#63
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

The games that are successful/stable do not generally go FTP.

DAoC, AC, Eve, all still subs.

Add final fantasy 11 to that too

 

In response to Tibernicuspa,

 

As you know, the times have changed greatly for various reasons and games and community explosions.   Most of those games pretty much predate WoW or have niche communities.  Niche communities and the games that made them niche have less of a chance of making money each month if subscriptions aren't required.  Being Niche, less people will stay with it and your guaranteed revenue is gone due to the niche title the community gave it (most likely for good reason).

Old school games like UO, DAoC and AC are before the time of modern day themeparks that pretty much defined a genre that was vastly different from each other (in terms of each game being unique in their own way).  Few would look at UO or AC and say "That game is gorgeous and has awesome systems!".  To be honest, I'm surprised that EQ and Ragnarok went F2P.  Though I guess a dedicated playerbase is a dedicate playerbase no matter the system used.  I'd expect EQ to still make a profit due to it being the top dog of the day and a lot of people having fond memories.  It probably attracted the old school crowd to come back and play it again, especially with it's consistent updates and how it still pops out expansions (which probably makes it in a league of it's own and thus an exception).

I'd be interested in knowing how Ragnarok is doing, especially since they just brought it on Steam.

 

FFXI also fits into this as it is a very slow paced game with a lot of systems you have to learn.  Most people couldn't get past level 10 back in the day before WoW, much less have to learn everything on their own without the tutorials people are used to in games nowadays.  The fact that it is on console systems as well makes it an option for a crowd that has less MMO options at present.

 

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1276

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

12/07/13 6:59:09 PM#64
Originally posted by Retired
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

The games that are successful/stable do not generally go FTP.

DAoC, AC, Eve, all still subs.

Add final fantasy 11 to that too

Remember FF11 already failed and rebooted. WOW, DAOC, AC and EVE are not recent titles, I have discussed age playing a part in other threads (can click on my name to look up the post). Anything that comes out current day, SWTOR, Aion, TERA, LOTRO, Conan, Vanguard, Rift, DDO,  DC Universe, will not last on subscription forever and eventually go F2P.

 

FFXI did not fail and reboot.  You're thinking of FFXIV.  ;3

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  CIB3

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/10
Posts: 42

12/08/13 1:30:49 PM#65

OK... let's explain why F2P is better than P2P or B2P (or both like Wildstar)

we have:

-100k players somewhat interested, but with no money or with money but with no intention to pay a subscription or to buy the game and

-5000 players with money who wish to buy the game and pay the subscription.

If the game is B2P or P2P will be played by those 5000. The in game AH will be almost empty, the game economy will be broken, the game world will be empty, grouping and dungeons will be difficult to be done. To resume the entire gaming experience will be bad for those paying players. A lot of those 5000 players will leave the game too. At the end we have 100k potential players + 5000 players unhappy.

If the game is F2P we have +100k players, a lot of realms, a good economy, because those free players make the grind job for players with money and put the materials in AH.

On the  other hand we have a lot of microtransactions for xp boosts for players with money but no time to play, vanity items, costumes, pets, mounts, housing items, etc. If the transactions are easy to be made, like buying sms codes, as I said in a previous post, here will be a lot of transactions, with condition that the prices to be reasonable / acceptable.

So here can be a B2P or P2P dead game or a great F2P game with a live and huge population.

The quality of players is not a problem, just join to a good guild and you don't need to interact with the rest to much. Gold sellers can be muted or banned. Or better, the game could offer the possibility to buy gold with real money.  I don't see any cons for a F2P model.

Just the game need a real F2P model, with not buying something mandatory to enjoy the game, like SWTOR.

There is a reason why so many P2P games changed their model to F2P!

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1174

12/08/13 9:08:43 PM#66
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by MasterZedX
Lol they wanna make as much money as they can before going f2p, derr 

 

What ever their intentions pretty much this. It makes sense business wise.

Well, most mmo's that used to be p2p started making MUCH MUCH more money/profit once it went f2p. Think of it this way, where the game client is free and there are no bars for entry alot more potental customers will try the game out, compared to the game being buy the client then a sub fee, peoples these days won't take risks on mmorpgs anymore. Tera is doing much better since it went f2p, and so are alot of other previous p2p mmo's. Though if you wanna do well you cannot restrict the game so much that its nearly unplayable (SWTOR is a prime example of this, I haven't checked in a while but the restrictions were insanly limiting to the point back then I'd not even try it.) I suspect wildstar will start p2p, then within a year or less end up going f2p due to dwindling sub numbers that get so low its not really viable to remain a sub mmo. How the hell WoW is still a sub mmorpg to this day blows my mind, its not that great of a mmo, its dated as hell, yet it still manages to somehow survive as a sub based mmo.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1174

12/08/13 9:11:30 PM#67
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Those 1 year sub deals are sort of risky. I did that with Rift and really regretted it. An xpac update comes out that you don't like and you've screwed yourself out of several months of game play.

When I do subs I typically choose the 3 month deal. I know at the end of every quarter if I plan on signing up for another stint, and it's a reasonable compromise between savings and control over how much is going out for what I get back.

The pre-order packs in every f2p game I've played have been completely optional. I bought the Neverwinter pack and it was one of the best deals for the money. I just went back after their latest update and started a ranger and he's got a companion, mount, and a great starter weapon, all for no extra charge.

Comparing different deals in isolation is sort of silly. I look at the total cost of a game per year, or even over a couple years, and decide if what they charge for it is something I think is really worth it. Required subs usually fall outside of that for me because I just don't see being restricted from playing unless I pony up more cash as a good deal, for me. I do factor the cost of a sub, along with any dlc/xpacs, and cash shop purchases in the total annual cost of the game though. For example, EQ2 can be one of the more expensive games for me. I usually buy $50 - $100 worth of SC, the xpac (at $40 - $60), and 6 months of subscription time (at around $75), so I'm spending about $200 per year on EQ2. Most of my other games are about half to 2/3 of that per year. I've spent $110 in Neverwinter since it was released; $70 with GW2; $20 with Aeria; $100 with City of Steam; and around $100 with Trion this year between Defiance and Rift.

I like being able to divvy up my gaming funds between different games how I feel like rather than the $13.80/mo for a sub.

I usually go month to month since a mmorpg rarely keeps me interested for even the first included month with the package. They just don't draw me in anymore mostly because they are too easy and too much is just handed to you and your hand gets held thru too much. Last MMO I played where I subbed for more than 2-3 months straight was FF11, its pretty much been the only mmorpg that managed to hold my interest. Just the right diffculty of getting stuff done, and its not a mostly solo rush to level cap mmo like most that are around today end up being. We need mmo's that force grouping again across all levels.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Tatercake

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/07
Posts: 272

LET GO OF MY NUTS

12/08/13 9:19:31 PM#68
if you read  you will find out that wildstar  has a  free system to  if you grind   and can  buy sub time with in game  money
  Ragnbor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/11/13
Posts: 14

12/11/13 10:53:36 AM#69

All I can say is that I will happily pay my bucks every month as long as the game is good and delivers good content. Did so for many years in World of Warcraft, did so in Aion, SWTOR, Rift, LoTRO and sveral others. Never regretted a single cent I payed for subs. Was amazed and happy when I learned about Wildstar's business model.

Those dudes over at Carbine are actually daring to go against the current trends in MMOs. Nobody doing 40 mans anymore? We bring them on. Everybody casualizing everything? We DO care for the hardcore community. Everybody going F2P? We do monthly sub with the alternative to grind for your sub ingame. Excellent job I say. Hope you will be successful, because, frankly speaking, each and every MMO that came out after WoW TBC, including all later WoW addons, sucked in a way (some of them big time), at least in my humble opion. Eveybody else is entitled to have her/his own.

And I'd rather pay my sub and have an equal chance for all aspects of gameplay - based on a combination of time investment and skill - than have a system such as in GW 2 where people with shitloads of money can just buy their precursors or legendaries from the auction hose. Despite all its remendous and hilarious fails in recent years, even WoW has not got that low. Ever.

And, sorry to break the news to you,  this is what you eventually get in F2P or B2P titles. There is no exception. It is always and will always be P2Win at least at a certain level of gameplay, and you end off paying much more for the game if you want to be competetive and high-end then if you pay for a monthly sub. F2P is the biggest  delusion of the current MMO community. It may generate more money for the company, but for me, as a gamer, the sub is always the better alternative.

  ColdMadness

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/24/13
Posts: 7

12/11/13 11:37:07 AM#70

I think Wildstar could really make their C.R.E.D.D. system work. I played WoW and earned like 15k gold in my first month of payment and I'm a very slow MMO player. I had an item lvl of 486 or something like that from random raids and I didn't even know what to buy in the AH. The only things I really needed were enchantments, which were really cheap. I didn't bother with professions/crafting, at all.

If it's gonna be the same with Wildstar and people can actually afford the C.R.E.D.D. then it might keep the hybrid payment model. 

Furthermore, this game is really different compared to others. The atmosphere is amazing and it might steal a lot of players who don't enjoy the usual medieval style, anymore. Fantasy + Funny Sci-Fi style is awesome hahaha.

  st3v3b0

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 135

12/11/13 11:41:11 AM#71
I predict F2P inside a year optimistically.  It'll likely be within 6-months similar to the route SW:TOR had to take.
  azonic69

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 57

12/11/13 11:48:20 AM#72
Originally posted by Retired
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

The games that are successful/stable do not generally go FTP.

DAoC, AC, Eve, all still subs.

Add final fantasy 11 to that too

Remember FF11 already failed and rebooted. WOW, DAOC, AC and EVE are not recent titles, I have discussed age playing a part in other threads (can click on my name to look up the post). Anything that comes out current day, SWTOR, Aion, TERA, LOTRO, Conan, Vanguard, Rift, DDO,  DC Universe, will not last on subscription forever and eventually go F2P.

I don't remember FF11 being rebooted, FF14 was but 11 no.

  Ragnbor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/11/13
Posts: 14

12/11/13 11:50:27 AM#73

Sw:tor was doomed to fail from the beginning, because the people who made it  did not even remotely understand what an MMO is and delivered what was a sorry excuse for an MMO. It was my saddest experience in 10 years MMO playing. I was so looking forward to that game, and it was just such a gigantic mess. Dunno if it has improved. I played it for half a year until I finally gave up on it and have not touched it since.

The people at Carbine seem to be a different bunch, I have the feeling they know damn well what they are doing. Of course that has nothing to do with the eventual success of the game, and it MAY end up as a F2P game. Even WoW may when the end finally comes in 10 or so years. But,  just to reiterate it: games never really go  F2P, they only go P2Win, and the truly dedicated gamers are the ones who pay that prize, not the casual crowd, therefore the sub system is - for an ambitious gamer who keeps an eye on his bucks - always the better solution.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

12/11/13 11:53:19 AM#74

There is no general rule, it depends on product.

Currently, if you have highly anticipated product it seems you make most money if you charge for box and sub at release - high anticipation as well as curiosty makes for good initial sales. With time tho, the entry fees become a burden and F2P model is much more viable.

I think this is what we see most today and will see for some time.

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 459

12/12/13 11:52:20 AM#75

NO game is going to be viable as a sub game unless theyre really small and didnt spend a lot of money in development and only need a handful of paying customers to make money. Or they deliver something completely different (that is still good) that will appeal to a wide variety of players.

 

ESO had the best chance of that, huge budget, MMO crowd, IP crowd, well established world with lots of history. But they didnt deliver anything close to being new.

 

From what I have seen and read about Wildstar its the same. Nothing new to see. Just a new game.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2266

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

12/12/13 11:59:51 AM#76
Originally posted by rodarin

NO game is going to be viable as a sub game unless theyre really small and didnt spend a lot of money in development and only need a handful of paying customers to make money. Or they deliver something completely different (that is still good) that will appeal to a wide variety of players.

 

ESO had the best chance of that, huge budget, MMO crowd, IP crowd, well established world with lots of history. But they didnt deliver anything close to being new.

 

From what I have seen and read about Wildstar its the same. Nothing new to see. Just a new game.

Yeah - just like WoW......

What small low population low budget sub-based game are you thinking of exactly?

I think you've got it backwards - the biggest sub-holders have lasted the longest, it is when their population drops off that f2p becomes necessary to maintain their profit margin - or to keep it afloat.

But that being said, I think the aim is to deliver something completely different that will appeal to a wide variety of players.

I think it can remain viable as a sub game - if they deliver.

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