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General Discussion  » Of how i lost my WoW guild to Bob. (rant/vent)

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125 posts found
  Sephiroso

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

12/10/13 3:35:50 PM#101

Females can be more emotionally invested when gaming because of the way their brains are wired (feelers more often than thinkers) and I've seen some drama llamas in my gaming heydey of both sexes.  I think a stereotype has formed around female games; a stereotype as essential to a well rounded guild as the slow-speaking rogue/assassin who's always stoned.  But then, there are stereotypes for a reason. 

Just curious, what kind of jobs don't accept men?  Just wondering your train of thought.  Hope this question isn't coming across as inciting drama... :D 

 

have you read nothing of all the posts you quoted? no one is saying the fault lies with women solely. we're saying is the GUYS who get stupid when a woman is nearby. so all that shit you're talking about we're pitting a stereotype against female gamers is just straight up bull.

 

yes someone may have cited an example or two about a female flirting and what not, but the majority was saying its the guys who just get stupid and wanna white knight any insult or w/e to the female and just shit goes south from there. like i said to jaleena, no one is saying females are bad players or anything, but when you introduce a female in a high competitive setting like raiding where you need everyone to work together for hours at a time and gear disputes could happen at anytime not to mention raid spots...it's almost asking for trouble.


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  Anslem

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/16/12
Posts: 212

12/10/13 3:51:41 PM#102
Originally posted by Sephiroso

Females can be more emotionally invested when gaming because of the way their brains are wired (feelers more often than thinkers) and I've seen some drama llamas in my gaming heydey of both sexes.  I think a stereotype has formed around female games; a stereotype as essential to a well rounded guild as the slow-speaking rogue/assassin who's always stoned.  But then, there are stereotypes for a reason. 

Just curious, what kind of jobs don't accept men?  Just wondering your train of thought.  Hope this question isn't coming across as inciting drama... :D 

 

have you read nothing of all the posts you quoted? no one is saying the fault lies with women solely. we're saying is the GUYS who get stupid when a woman is nearby. so all that shit you're talking about we're pitting a stereotype against female gamers is just straight up bull.

 

yes someone may have cited an example or two about a female flirting and what not, but the majority was saying its the guys who just get stupid and wanna white knight any insult or w/e to the female and just shit goes south from there. like i said to jaleena, no one is saying females are bad players or anything, but when you introduce a female in a high competitive setting like raiding where you need everyone to work together for hours at a time and gear disputes could happen at anytime not to mention raid spots...it's almost asking for trouble.

I gotcha. It's for sure a two way street.  It's an interesting idea, gender specific guilds. It can avoid potential problems and there are plenty of other guilds out there. Cheers!

Played: Ultima Online - DaoC - WoW -

  Krimzin

Elite Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 502

12/10/13 3:52:39 PM#103

Speaking as a former "Bob", the writing is on the wall. If you choose to see it, that is up to you. I have overthrown 2 guild leaders, 1 in SWTOR and 1 in WoW. Never did it to be a dick, I did it for the benefit of the guild as a whole.
When a Guild has a leader who isn't qualified or inexperienced it hurts the guild as a whole. You did the right thing for the guild but not for you as a player.

The burning question that begs to be asked is
"Why were there people who were "way better geared" than you?"

There are a couple possible reasons but none of them would be worth it. If you would have said, similarly geared or a bit better geared than you, I might have sympathy. If they were that far ahead of you on gear, then you went from being a Guild Leader to being carried. No one wants to carry anyone, pull your own weight or step out.. its only fair.

You need to start a Casual Guild and let it be known from the start that it will never be anything more.

Second Rule.. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR POWER. If you do, then your done. Force them to restart a new guild and rebuild your current one. Doing this keeps your manhood intact, as it stands yours is in your backpack.

Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.


It's an Orange thing

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1527

12/10/13 3:55:15 PM#104

a few thoughts from Da Skull

sometimes in guild politics a cult of personality kind of happens, I know something similar happened when I played Wow.  I've actually been on both sides of this behaviour (as in, i've been in your position and in bob's).  I dunno why but it's a phenomenon of guild politics in Wow and EQ2.  (i never noticed it in EQ1, and in Eve people tend to be super skeptical of ny newcomer for months in any relevant corp)  I would say though, that as lng as you had fun for the time you were GM, then dont call it wasted time!  you had fun and enjoyed yourself.  what more can you want in a game.  try to keep it positive and seek people to play with that appreciate you.

 

as others mentioned it seems like your guild kinda got hijacked from a less intense guild to  a more raiding oriented one.  Dont lose sleep over it.  you know what?  the people in your old guild who are worth knowing will seek you out and you wont lose them as friends.  the ones who dont were probly not worth it in the first place.  and if you put your mind to it then within a week, blam, you will find a new guild to call home and new folks to get to know.

 

keep it positive.  if da skull can do it you can too :)

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

  Tinybina

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 2115

12/10/13 4:06:01 PM#105

I'm sorry but this is still real life and as others have said if you saw this guy coming you should have did something about it.  Hopefully you don't make the same mistake if you try the guild leadership again someday.

 

And btw there is noway in hell that I would have allowed them to vote me out.  I would have kicked EVERYONE out before I did that, and kept the name just to stop them from taking it.

------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4571

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/10/13 5:07:17 PM#106

Tiny is perhaps too extreme. Bob and hif followers were as much a part of the guild as anyone at that point.

 

I would reccomend two things in such situation:

 

1) promote him to leader but if and only if...

2) demand a permanent and unremovable officer position and raid spot.

 

 

  TheSedated

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/04
Posts: 84

12/11/13 9:57:11 AM#107

Hmm, I feel sorry for you, OP, but it is also what drew me away from WoW many times. I come from Anarchy Online and was a member of my guild for over 10 years. I was one of the founders. Having a guild in AO is quite easy, get 6 guild-less people together, make a team and type /org create "Name". There you have your guild. You can define the ranks and everything like in WoW, but a major difference in AO is that your guild is more than a raidgroup and a bank. We had about 500 members over the years, many leaders (including me) and a lot to do. But it was never anyones guild, it was our guild. And this is the same for almost all other guilds in AO. We had our officers with different tasks and depending on how many active members we had at a time, also vice officers. There was one for raiding, one for pvp actions (sometimes this was split up into two parts), one recruitment officer,  one for newbie/lowlevel training and advice, one for our guild city (yes, not only housing, but cities...), one for rp activities etc. . PvP-action was sometimes split up into land control pvp and regular pvp. Oh, and we had an elders council for our retired leaders. That's what I call a guild.

 

But it's also something I think is very hard to get in WoW. There's too much pressure due to the lockout timers (which I feel are ridiculous anyways) in WoW, the raid size limitation makes it even worse. For a raiding guild that leads to an A-Team and some leftovers, if there aren't enoug players for a second raid group. I can understand that this system needs something like an harder hierarchy and there's some sort of meaning to the guild leader position, but it wasn't fun for me. We had our fair share of accomplishments in AO, not only faction or server wide. In AO we were able to do what we wanted to do, when we wanted it, how often we wanted it (except some faction/server wide raids with a global timer of 18h at max) and with as many players as we wanted. As you can think, we really grew together over all this and there were no leftovers. Coming from this background, I can say, I really feel sorry for you for losing your guild (as founder and leader of an WoW-guild, I think you're the one most attached to it), but I also feel sorry for many WoW-players (hence, I don't say that this is impossible, but it's a lot harder to accomplish in WoW due to a lack of activities where all guildies can take part in at the same time) who won't experience the type of guild I and most other AO players enjoyed so much.

  steelheartx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 399

12/11/13 10:02:33 AM#108
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

 

Running a guild like a democracy doesn't usually end well.

 

This ^^

Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at www.grievanceguild.com !

  NetSage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1010

12/12/13 8:07:13 AM#109
Originally posted by Robokapp

Tiny is perhaps too extreme. Bob and hif followers were as much a part of the guild as anyone at that point.

 

I would reccomend two things in such situation:

 

1) promote him to leader but if and only if...

2) demand a permanent and unremovable officer position and raid spot.

 

 

The only issue with this is once he has #1 there is no reason for him to keep his word on #2.

  Shadoed

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/03
Posts: 1483

12/13/13 7:43:38 AM#110

I have not read the whole thread, so i apologise if i am repeating anything that has already been said.

I think there is one very important thing that a lot of people setting up guilds forget to do before embarking on them and that is to do some basic planing and set up the rules. More importantly, decide what type of guild you want to be and stick to it. I have been in a few social guilds that have then attempted to be raiding guilds and it never works well at all.

Number one though, with all that said, remember that it is 'your' guild, not the members, not the raid leader, 'your' guild!!! If you don't stick with that, you are pretty much doomed to fail from the start.

The guild i am currently heading up has a core membership of six founders, the decision from the start was that no-one other than any of these six could ever be leaders, others could become officers, but never leaders. The guild rules were ingrained and followed to the letter, some ex-members may have seen that as harsh, but again, if you don't stick to what you have set up, you are doomed to fail.

The overriding factor though was, if you don't like the way we run things, there is the door, goodbye and good luck. Again, that wasn't to be nasty or harsh in any way, but that is the way we wanted to run our guild and if you didn't agree then you obviously don't fit in with the ethos that we have decided to run ourselves by and you would be better off finding someone who did match your own game play style.

In the case of the op's story, my attitude personally would have been to say to the 70%, feel free to go start your own guild with Bob as your leader and i do say that from experience when i learned the hard way that raid and social don't generally mix :)

It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2160

First came pride, then envy.

12/14/13 2:43:07 PM#111

This sort of reminds me of my first raiding guild in WoW.

Our leader was pretty cool, and we would get server firsts on MC and BWL, then he stopped playing due to college.  He eventually came back, but then someone else we recruited started leading the raids when he was gone.  Eventually, the old leader wanted to be leader again, and that's when the guild fractured and split into two guilds.

Best thing to do is never give up guild leader.

Just rebuild another guild.  You seemed capable of doing it the first time.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2764

12/14/13 4:46:58 PM#112

Lesson learned I guess.  Definitely never give up guild leadership.  Just let the raiders make their own guild if it comes to that.  Everyone will be happier in the end.

 

Just make a new guild and be clear on the guilds goals.  If people outgrow the guild just let them leave amicably.
 

  Shodanas

Elite Member

Joined: 1/05/10
Posts: 676

12/14/13 5:19:22 PM#113
"..about 70% of the guild "voted" him as the new Guild Master.."  Oh really? I'm in WoW since 2005, always in raiding guilds and i have news for you my friend. Successful guilds are not run as democracies. What the hell does "they voted" even mean? First time i come across such a thing. If said person was this good then he could become the main raid leader which is already a big deal. Raid leader and guild master are not necessarily the same person you know. You did not handle the situation particularly well. 
  AmbrosiaAmor

Elite Member

Joined: 11/24/10
Posts: 788

12/16/13 5:45:49 PM#114
Originally posted by PWN_FACE

This is just how people are. It's sad but true. Loyalty is an extremely rare and precious thing in this world.

 

So sad, but true. I am a very loyal person (you saw this more back in the day MMOs from 1999-2004). Nowadays... while it still exists... it is also quite rare. Most guilds currently feel like revolving doors (although casualization of the genre helped in that regard immensely).

 

Love Robokapp's comments in this thread... good stuff. Bob's the Putin of WoW: make that into a meme! Love the example with Spartacus.

 

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

12/16/13 6:12:44 PM#115

I have successfully run several guilds in several games. I have run them as dictatorships and democracies, however the one thing I have always done is kept the leadership in my name.  Even when a democracy when decisions went against my view and others voices were listened to more, the ultimate power remained in my hands. 

  MurlockDance

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1203

12/24/13 10:31:13 AM#116
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by Jeleena
Originally posted by Ridrith
 

We also had a number of rules that we enforced.

No couples.

No female players.

Weekly Guild Meetings - In ventrilo.

Taking a break every week from raiding and playing other games with each other.

Red text. Unbelievable....this is 2013 we are talking about????  

I noticed that too. While I understand the reasoning behind it (guys tend to get stupid over female players, and some females play off that like nobody's business) that doesn't make it any less sexist.

Personally I'd let female players in, but boot them and / or any guy who starts with the white knighting bullcrap at the first sign of trouble.

Green text. I think this is a better policy to have than not allowing women in at all since you at least give a chance to the female player to prove herself. I don't think that every female player should be branded a trouble maker from the get-go just because of a few bad apples. How do you even find out if we are female ? Those of us who are teamplayers don't make a habit of advertizing ourselves since we are 'just one of the guys'.

Besides the drama and stuff can happen regardless of who you got in your guild as we can see from the OP.

My suggestion to the OP, to change the subject slightly, is to next time try to nip the problem in the bud. Good leaders tend to anticipate things (not always possible since this comes with experience). Next time a 'Bob' appears in your guild, invite him to make a subsidiary guild linked to yours. There is no shame in having a casual/leveling guild associated with a hardcore raid guild. I think it is better than mixing the aims in one guild.

The other thing is to balance what you invest in the guild with what other players invest. Don't put too much of yourself into it because it is just a game. Instead, try to lead by example in the sense of stressing that other players help out others like you help them out. In WoW it is hard because a  lot of people are pretty selfish and it is so easy to guildhop.

Good luck in the future. I hope you do continue with your ideas of leading a guild because a lot of guilds die pretty quickly so if yours worked for as long as it did, it is already sort of a rarity in today's WoW.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  JJ82

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 917

12/24/13 10:40:09 AM#117
Originally posted by MmoFluff

Things went well and a few months into it the guild had grown solid and many players had become friends and wanted to transform the guild into something more, into a raiding guild, to which i agreed, and despite my lack of experience in the leading role, i did my best and we even got a few nice completions and kills.

You lost leadership right there and hate to say it, deserved it.

You started out as one thing, with no experience and had a great time doing it and so did your guild, you never should have changed that and should have told others to create an off-shoot if they wanted something more.

Once a guild makes progression its focus, all loyalty and friendship is tossed out the window.

The guild I am in has several divisions set up. A Casual, a raiding, a PvP and an RP guild all under the same umbrella. This allows us to stay together yet at the same time, apart, if we want to focus on one thing, even while spread out over different games.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  Darthconnor

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 59

12/26/13 3:13:18 AM#118

Seen that kinda thing happen in many games where a guild started out as one thing and all a sudden became another. Personally I never been big on raids or pvp. Never even started on raids and only pvp for fun every once in awhile. Once they start trying to change the focus from what your guild is set on to something else you should end it there if your their leader. Otherwise do like I do when I'm in a guild that decides to change and find a new one with a similar focus as I have. Done the whole leaving to find new guilds plenty of times and I've told others when i was leader that if they wanted to hardcore raid or pvp to simple leave and start their own and take any members that feel the same with them. Send out a mail saying that is your decision and offer to let them back if they want to refocus back on your guilds main purpose. I've found most people only raid or pvp for so long until their ready to go back casual if that is what they started out doing.

 

As others have said never give up leadership due to pressure and stick to your guns. I'd go so far as to tell them I want leadership back and that they should go make a raiding guild that can be associated with your guild.

  aSynchro

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/11
Posts: 152

12/26/13 5:40:00 AM#119
Transition from a casual to a raiding guild is horrible. Guys that were previously just happy to log and chat, doing retro or randoms together start to think in a different way: suddently everything is about gear and skill and optimising the team. It also often lead to a split between the guildies that remain casuals and the raiders...
So yeah... I would strongly advice to any leader to really think about this before jumping the shark. If you decide to start raiding, be sure to write rules and fix goal: how many raiding nights, what kind of difficulty (lfr, flex, hc..) etc.
If someone isn't following YOUR vision, eh! Just kick him from YOUR guild !
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8587

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

1/02/14 10:22:21 AM#120
Originally posted by aSynchro
Transition from a casual to a raiding guild is horrible. Guys that were previously just happy to log and chat, doing retro or randoms together start to think in a different way: suddently everything is about gear and skill and optimising the team. It also often lead to a split between the guildies that remain casuals and the raiders...
So yeah... I would strongly advice to any leader to really think about this before jumping the shark. If you decide to start raiding, be sure to write rules and fix goal: how many raiding nights, what kind of difficulty (lfr, flex, hc..) etc.
If someone isn't following YOUR vision, eh! Just kick him from YOUR guild !

What worked best for me was a sepperate raiding group, away from the guilds....

its quite easy setting up a chatchannel for this where raiders can join in....

worked great in vanilla raiding for us, and in some other engame games i played...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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