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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » GW2 vs TESO vs EQ:N - what's your opinion about moving in combat?

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77 posts found
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8546

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

12/11/13 7:56:01 AM#41

non moving combat feels so much like the civil war...

 

I really like combat where placing and movement is paret of the show. You can also add Wildstar to the list..  However, i also like dedicated rolls, and thats where both GW2 and EQN seem to fail..

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2044

12/11/13 8:01:00 AM#42

As someone who started in MUDs, paper RPG and turn based games I should probably choose the old rooted combat. I would give that answer if these games hadn't dumbed down combat to the point where a trained monkey can do it. The combat pacing is all off for rooted combat in most MMORPG too.

If they slowed down combat and add a lot of depth to the strategy involved then I'd much prefer rooted. If you had to think more than just react.

If you are going to have fast paced, reactive combat you are basically making your combat into an FPS or arcade game in which case movement based is definitely the way to go.

  zasten

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 287

12/11/13 8:08:05 AM#43

I really like gw2 movement however for a game that requires you to actually move they have nerfed it by limiting to amount of movement that you can actually do!

Acrobats do not do 2 moves then wait 30 seconds before they can do any more moves. Also, so many skills are available that lock the char in place, totally defeating the whole movement in combat concept!

  Vunak23

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

12/11/13 8:18:46 AM#44

TERA's combat is the best so far in my opinion. It emphasizes skill and tactful play. Its very fast paced at 60, and not spammy like GW2 for example, but if you use the wrong ability at the wrong time it will severely screw you because of animation lock on some abilities which is risk/reward (something we need more of in MMO's today). 

So knowing when to use abilities is key, you have the aiming component which is greater than that of GW2 or ESO (EQNext is yet to be determined). You also have more abilities to juggle than them all. Limited action set is great in its own way. But I feel like the limited action set needs to be increased to about 10-12 abilities instead of 7-8. 

 

OUt of the games mentioned by the OP though, I feel EQ: Next will be the greater of the three. At least thats what I hope since I have no interest in the other two what so ever. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16997

12/11/13 8:28:56 AM#45

I don't mind the "standing" combat but I really like Tera's combat. what I don't ever like is bunny hopping or constantly rolling and rolling and rolling out of the way.

I think combat still needs to look good.

People complain about animations all the time but rarely do I see people complain about how ridiculous some of these "jump out of the way/roll out of the way" systems are.

 

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1531

12/11/13 8:30:41 AM#46
Originally posted by moguy2

You just gotta stop making references to EQ1. This game is not gonna be ANYTHING like EQ1.

 

And speaking of EQ1. People should give it a shot again. 

Memories should stay memories.

When I logged back in to EQ1, I was like "how the hell did I ever love to play this <insert rant on MMO with outdated graphics and content here>" ?

 

 

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4735

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

12/11/13 8:39:29 AM#47


Originally posted by PWN_FACE
I'm playing SWTOR a bit now to enjoy the stories and some relaxing grinding in between sessions of War Thunder, but I still would like it better if we could move in that game, too. So many times I find myself wailing away at a mob with my lightsaber but not damaging it because it's not targeted....it's hilarious.

Roll a Sith Assassin and go down the Darkness tree (tanking tree). Its almost all instants. I'm not a huge combat fan in mmos, but when I played swtor, this character was a blast. Highly mobile, knockbacks and pulls, some very cool animations and the double bladed lightsaber is always nice.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  rojoArcueid

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Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5111

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

12/11/13 8:41:56 AM#48

since i havent played EQN i dont know how that one feels.

 

AS for GW2 and TESO, I love how moveing in combat feels in GW2, i just love it because the characters even in combat they go with the flow, very naturally. In TESO, however, it doesnt feel as good as Skyrim. I already said this before but moving in TESO felt like Defiance. I didnt like that at all. I want to believe that it was because its beta but im sure they're going to be the same launch animations too

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1615

12/11/13 8:47:24 AM#49

Vanguard, can cast while moving. 

DCUO, action combat.

Both games released well before GW2.  Both games, in my opinion, had more enjoyable combat than GW2. 

Nor did I ever stand still in WoW, with any class.  GW2 wasn't any different to me than any other traditional MMO, except that if I double tap in a direction before someone cast an ability at me, it would dodge that ability.  Aside from that it was just like playing WoW with a bunch of instant cast abilities. 

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5111

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

12/11/13 8:50:05 AM#50
Originally posted by Vunak23

TERA's combat,  It emphasizes skill and tactful play.

this is so wrong...... please stop saying this. Tera is already old enough for people to play long enough to realise that was false advertising. Theres no skill needed here, the person with superior equipment wins in the blink of an eye.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2555

12/11/13 8:50:45 AM#51
Originally posted by Vunak23

TERA's combat is the best so far in my opinion. It emphasizes skill and tactful play. Its very fast paced at 60, and not spammy like GW2 for example, but if you use the wrong ability at the wrong time it will severely screw you because of animation lock on some abilities which is risk/reward (something we need more of in MMO's today). 

So knowing when to use abilities is key, you have the aiming component which is greater than that of GW2 or ESO (EQNext is yet to be determined). You also have more abilities to juggle than them all. Limited action set is great in its own way. But I feel like the limited action set needs to be increased to about 10-12 abilities instead of 7-8. 

 

OUt of the games mentioned by the OP though, I feel EQ: Next will be the greater of the three. At least thats what I hope since I have no interest in the other two what so ever. 

Fun how GW2 has a minimum of 11 abilities, plus dodge and the weapon swap.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15272

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/11/13 10:07:33 AM#52
Originally posted by donpopuki
I believe the rooted combat of days past was due to technological limitations. Personally I would like combat to be more like Devil Maycry, God of War or Vindicus. I feel more engaged in those games, the hits feel more substantial. I think GW2 comes close to that sort of combat which is why I like it but after a while it becomes tiresome due to the lack of variety. I think EQN's solution to this problem is allowing multiclassing. I like readjusting my tactics to overcome a challenge.

SWG didn't root in combat, so I'd say it wasn't about Tech.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  krage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 407

12/11/13 10:15:24 AM#53

I love mobile combat but one thing I would like to see changed is to add some stationary incentive.

Casters or Ranged classes should take a decent accuracy or damage debuff when casting on the move to represent reduced accuracy from trying to aim while on the run. It will also add a risk vs reward of standing still to cast/shoot for more dmg, higher crits, etc.

This would also give a slight advantage to melee for having that range disadvantage, swinging a sword on the run is much more simple, and even advantageous from the momentum if used right as compared to trying to run away from a sword wielder while trying to launch a fireball or shoot an arrow (kiting).

As for reallly powerful spells, or AOE spells/abilities those should root players as the drawback aside from just huge mana costs, this would help reduce AOE insta death fields in large group combat since whoever begins casting their AOEs first are now susceptible to being sniped, charged, CC'd or even counter-AOE'd since they will be static in a world with largely mobile combat.

 

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

12/11/13 10:43:28 AM#54
There's no way to go back. It really bothered me in Path of the Exile that I had to stop to use abilities. It feels very clunky. Especially for melee characters.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Jimmy562

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/06
Posts: 1098

12/11/13 10:54:26 AM#55

SWG (CU) combat for me was the best combat in an MMO. Was a great mix of action and tab targeting.

I'm not a massive fan of GW2's combat because everyone is jumping and rolling everywhere and it becomes a mess in my opinion. TESO looks like it could be good. I do prefer moving combat when its not over done. 

  Tabloid42

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/07
Posts: 143

We're going to need a bigger FlashDrive!

12/11/13 11:08:48 AM#56
Originally posted by Elikal

You see, ever since I used to play GW2, I am hooked into "moving combat". Back in the days BEFORE GW2, we all used to be rooted while executing our skills. 

/discuss ^^

Before GW2?  Wow,..plenty of moving games before that one,..Action arcadey type of movement,.

Vindictus, DCUO,.DDO,..The Secret World,..plenty more.

 

I think it was DCUO that really got me hooked on the 'arcadey' style of combat.  I loved doing combos by holding down or double clicking the mouse.   It freed my left hand up and allowed me to keep moving and dodging without having to hover over hotbars,..

 

the Secret World did an excellent job of keeping you moving around the board. With ground effects and dodge mechanics,imho.

 

DDO has penalties if you constantly run around,..but you can get feats to mitigate that.  You also get a building buff the More you stay stationary over time for melees.    Dodging doesn't affect this though I think. So you can still roll around.

 

GW2 combat isn't bad,.but I stopped playing that game, not because of combat,.but for other things,..I just didnt like the character building and classes.

 

 

So my vote goes to more of that!,.. Hot bars are great but just don't let them get out of hand,..hehe  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1353

12/11/13 11:11:51 AM#57
Originally posted by Elikal

You see, ever since I used to play GW2, I am hooked into "moving combat". Back in the days BEFORE GW2, we all used to be rooted while executing our skills. And that was fine and nice, because we didn't know any better. But now, I am sort of spoiled. I felt this very badly, when I tried the new Ranger class in Neverwinter.

Back being rooted again... felt... so... wrong.

 

So, does anyone know how combat is handled in Elder Scrolls Online and Everquest Next? Just curious.

And, how do you guys think about this GW2-style moving combat vs classic rooted combat?

 

/discuss ^^

I absolutely freaking hate it. GW2's combat that is. I'm not against being able to move and cast, but there are way more differences in the combat then moving vs. not moving. For example, when I'm playing a fire mage, warrior, rogue, druid... or countless other class specs in WoW, I fight while moving. If you're talking about casting and standing still specifically, I like it for some spells/skills as I feel it's needed. Say for example a spell that needs to be channeled. I feel like making the player stand in a spot makes sense. It balances the casters in a lot of cases.

 

GW2's combat to me feels odd. I really dislike it way more then I though I would. It really feels and looks like a bunch of people fighting at full speed while running around like complete idiots. It looks chaotic. To each their own though. I know a lot of folks like it but I really don't.

 

I like the idea of moving in combat and not standing static, but I like the way that WoW and games like FF14 do it much more.

  Vunak23

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

12/11/13 3:13:55 PM#58

 


Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by Vunak23 TERA's combat,  It emphasizes skill and tactful play.
this is so wrong...... please stop saying this. Tera is already old enough for people to play long enough to realise that was false advertising. Theres no skill needed here, the person with superior equipment wins in the blink of an eye.
Wrong. [mod edit] I succeed at what you say is impossible just about every day. Level 18 Sorc killing a level 32 warrior, check. Level 60 Conjunct geared killing a level 60 strikeforce geared, check. Not to mention equalized battlegrounds.. [mod edit]

I've come to realize people that severely disliked TERA were people that were truly horrible at the games combat. 

 


Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
 
Fun how GW2 has a minimum of 11 abilities, plus dodge and the weapon swap.

 

I never said anything about GW2's limited action set, that comment was more directed at EQ:Next since like I said that is the game I am looking forward too out of the three games listed. I should have specified... but meh.

 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

12/11/13 3:34:12 PM#59

I actualy prefer a MORE rooted system then is typical in most MMO's. If you look at most melee fighting in the real world....running and jumping around like a nut gets you killed/defeated really quick and isn't neccessary either. You want a little bit of movement within a limited range (look at a boxer or mixed martial arts) but you aren't running around like crazy all over the place. That's especialy trrue when you have multiple opponents fighting multiple opponents. You want to keep some sort of formation cohesion. Having good footing is very important for fighting.

Getting away from realism for a second and into pure gameplay....I think too much movement simply makes for bad gameplay...it makes things like kiting and run throughs too dominant....and takes away from the deeper strategic and tactical depth of combat that I enjoy in gaming. For non-mounted combat something like Mount and Blade works for me for the action oriented stuff. Basicaly I want to see typical fantasy-medieval combat resemble more what you would see the individual figures in a Total War game moving like. YMMV.

 

Edit: The whole moving around like crazy in combat always fell into the same boat as "bunny hopping" in FPS games does for me.

 

  Elikal

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Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

 
OP  12/11/13 4:07:07 PM#60
The one issue with "moving combat" is: it is incredibly more difficult to balance in PVP/RVR, because not every player can move and react equally. In fact there is a huge gap of capabilities here. In rooted combat, the player field is more levelled, since all are equally forced to stand still.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

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