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Star Citizen

Star Citizen 

General Discussion  » New Stretch Goal

10 posts found
  krulux

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 228

 
OP  12/10/13 11:26:22 AM#1

I've been watching this Indy title grow into a behemoth of a game, in scope and size.

I'm about $530 into the game - and I'll be glad to see it launch.  I'm really stoked about many of the stretch goals they've announced since we started the funding effort.... but;

 

Not ruffle any feathers - but at some point, with the extra money raised I'd like to see them add more personnel... i.e. more artists, more developers, more people!

 

Given the amount of money they have raised, surely they can increase the rate the game is developed.  I'd love to be able to play a full version of Squadron 42 by this time next year.  I realize the MMO aspect will be slower going... and I would not want to rush it over a quality ship (no pun!) but I mean... c'mon man!  Stop stretching and lets get the current vision finished!

  Quazal.A

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 415

12/10/13 11:44:48 AM#2
Originally posted by krulux

I've been watching this Indy title grow into a behemoth of a game, in scope and size.

I'm about $530 into the game - and I'll be glad to see it launch.  I'm really stoked about many of the stretch goals they've announced since we started the funding effort.... but;

 

Not ruffle any feathers - but at some point, with the extra money raised I'd like to see them add more personnel... i.e. more artists, more developers, more people!

 

Given the amount of money they have raised, surely they can increase the rate the game is developed.  I'd love to be able to play a full version of Squadron 42 by this time next year.  I realize the MMO aspect will be slower going... and I would not want to rush it over a quality ship (no pun!) but I mean... c'mon man!  Stop stretching and lets get the current vision finished!

As my forum posts suggest I am NOT the biggest fan of this , in fact im not a fan at all :) but i have been saying this for some time, to me it seems they have just realised that they have a cash cow.

So fully agree with you, instead of offering item x/y/z if we got 1mill more, why not recruit another 20 devs / staff  with good yearly income to get a game out NOW. 

Once the game is out the income will be going up legitimatly, and not just a promise auction which this seems to be. (for you younger people please google a promise auction) - Tell me how its any different.

I take my hat off to how the hell he has gotten this much for nothing more than bit of art work and screen shot or 2, when we are in theory in a 'downward pressured income enviroment'

I truly hope for some of you guys who have donated it works out, however my head says the opposite your going to end up with nothing more than an updated version of 1-2 older games

 

 

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

12/10/13 11:50:19 AM#3

Yeah I'm getting a little tired of the stretch goal thing....if they want more stretch goals let's have one s like :

Can now afford to hire more graphic artists to create assets faster

Will increase the size of the QA team to ensure more polish and faster testing.

Will hire more coders to hopefully speed the adding of current proposed features and get game out sooner.

 

  jakin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/04
Posts: 235

12/10/13 11:58:35 AM#4

Well - if you read the producer's letters that come with the new stretch goal announcements, they usually say something like this (from the $33 million one) "Each stretch goal system represents additional artists, tools, programmers and new technologies that will make the finished project even better!"

 

I'm not a programmer, but I've been around the hobby long enough to see it stated over and over again that dumping more people onto a project is not a means to accomplish that project faster.  More people take time to get up to speed, which takes away time from the people currently coding, etc.

 

As such, it's not really likely that each stretch goal would result in the game getting shipped earlier.  What each stretch goal gives is a more complete experience at launch. 

 

Where Squadron 42 would have been |------| at launch, it is now going to be |--------------------|.

 

Whether you agree with the philosophy of crowd-funding or not, I think pretty much every project works like this to a certain degree.  It's just the source of funding that is different in this case.

  Quazal.A

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 415

12/10/13 1:13:19 PM#5
Originally posted by jakin

Well - if you read the producer's letters that come with the new stretch goal announcements, they usually say something like this (from the $33 million one) "Each stretch goal system represents additional artists, tools, programmers and new technologies that will make the finished project even better!"

 

I'm not a programmer, but I've been around the hobby long enough to see it stated over and over again that dumping more people onto a project is not a means to accomplish that project faster.  More people take time to get up to speed, which takes away time from the people currently coding, etc.

 

As such, it's not really likely that each stretch goal would result in the game getting shipped earlier.  What each stretch goal gives is a more complete experience at launch. 

 

Where Squadron 42 would have been |------| at launch, it is now going to be |--------------------|.

 

Whether you agree with the philosophy of crowd-funding or not, I think pretty much every project works like this to a certain degree.  It's just the source of funding that is different in this case.

While i can agree (to a point) on your premise I don't not agree with your outcome

Having worked in project management / product development for some years (some years ago ) the one thing you would have is an outline of either 

A business plan - what your going to do, how your going to do, what resource and how much it will cost

or

B Project Plan - How and when your going to complete the objectives set in point A

However, this game to me seems to have very little to none of above, its almost a wing and a prayer style game development, if it had part A then all of the possible items should have been suggested at its first "give me free money drive" with a nice big bold letters "this is only assuming we get the 2.5bill we need to make a working game.

They would, in my opnion of course been better to get out a game with caveat that it will be getting some awesome updates over the first 1/2 years, All i can see (and i use your graphic)

Where Squadron 42 would have been |------| at launch, it is now going to be |--  --  -- -  -- --- -- --  - -|.

Instead of a smaller game working, you will have a larger with lots of bugs, and one thing that peeves us MMOers off more than lack of content is content that is bugged. For proof of this see the various whinges and whines on the FF14:arr and Neverwinter  games

Don't think that because he has got 13405 mill that the game will come out unbugged because no amount of finance and money can stop that, and in my 10-15 years of games the one thing I've seen is that a game has 3 months grace period before it gets left to die. For proof of this I refer the 'almost' graveyard Age of Conan still one of the most beautifully crafted games in MMO world, but because of its nightmare during release its now left to wander the corridors of almost land

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  krulux

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 228

 
OP  12/10/13 1:30:06 PM#6
Originally posted by jakin
I'm not a programmer, but I've been around the hobby long enough to see it stated over and over again that dumping more people onto a project is not a means to accomplish that project faster.  More people take time to get up to speed, which takes away time from the people currently coding, etc.

I agree that just "dumping" people onto a project is not the best approach - but to be realistic... it comes down to project management and man-hours of work.  Sure there are some aspects of game development that only require a few to brainstorm and lay the ground work so to speak.  After that phase... its mostly just "X" number of man-hours till completion.  This the aspect I'm referring to hiring more people.

  screecwe

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 46

12/11/13 12:38:32 AM#7
Originally posted by Quazal.A
While i can agree (to a point) on your premise I don't not agree with your outcome

Having worked in project management / product development for some years (some years ago ) the one thing you would have is an outline of either 

A business plan - what your going to do, how your going to do, what resource and how much it will cost

or

B Project Plan - How and when your going to complete the objectives set in point A

However, this game to me seems to have very little to none of above, its almost a wing and a prayer style game development, if it had part A then all of the possible items should have been suggested at its first "give me free money drive" with a nice big bold letters "this is only assuming we get the 2.5bill we need to make a working game.

They would, in my opnion of course been better to get out a game with caveat that it will be getting some awesome updates over the first 1/2 years, All i can see (and i use your graphic)

Where Squadron 42 would have been |------| at launch, it is now going to be |--  --  -- -  -- --- -- --  - -|.

Instead of a smaller game working, you will have a larger with lots of bugs, and one thing that peeves us MMOers off more than lack of content is content that is bugged. For proof of this see the various whinges and whines on the FF14:arr and Neverwinter  games

Don't think that because he has got 13405 mill that the game will come out unbugged because no amount of finance and money can stop that, and in my 10-15 years of games the one thing I've seen is that a game has 3 months grace period before it gets left to die. For proof of this I refer the 'almost' graveyard Age of Conan still one of the most beautifully crafted games in MMO world, but because of its nightmare during release its now left to wander the corridors of almost land

 

I didn't realize you were sitting in on their project meetings. What makes you think it's a "wing and a prayer" development style? From the beginning, he said the game was always budgeted at 23 million. Crowd funding was initially intended to show that a market existed so that investors wouldn't be as nervous. 

After they hit their mark, the extra cash has allowed CIG to:

  • Hire more people/contractors
  • Speed up production of aspects of the game that weren't being worked on yet
  • Flesh out ideas and aspects of the game they already had to a greater degree then originally planned
  • Implement bleeding edge tech as it comes out (facial mapping/scanning, Oculus Rift)
  • Develop parts of the game that were originally slated for post-launch release
Almost all of these new stretch goals are minor things that were always going to come out anyways. They aren't just inventing stuff off the top of their heads. The main thing that money is going to, are all the points I mentioned above.
  Volkmar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2507

12/11/13 1:02:17 AM#8
Originally posted by krulux

I've been watching this Indy title grow into a behemoth of a game, in scope and size.

I'm about $530 into the game - and I'll be glad to see it launch.  I'm really stoked about many of the stretch goals they've announced since we started the funding effort.... but;

 

Not ruffle any feathers - but at some point, with the extra money raised I'd like to see them add more personnel... i.e. more artists, more developers, more people!

 

Given the amount of money they have raised, surely they can increase the rate the game is developed.  I'd love to be able to play a full version of Squadron 42 by this time next year.  I realize the MMO aspect will be slower going... and I would not want to rush it over a quality ship (no pun!) but I mean... c'mon man!  Stop stretching and lets get the current vision finished!

What makes you think that they don't?

The Star Citizen crew started with just Austin and ten or so people and now it stretches into many different offices with over 100 people working on it.

Also if you watch Wingman's Hangar, almost every episode they will say "we have new guy X coming to work for us in the office Y starting this week". In the last one they announced 2 new hires and had an interview with their new manager for outsourced art that has started working there 3 weeks ago.

If your point is that there is no "we will hire more people" stretch goal, why should there be such? People are hired to fulfill the need of the game, not just because. So do not worry, they are hiring new people all the time :)

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

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http://realmofroleplay.com/?cat=19

  screecwe

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 46

12/11/13 10:26:41 AM#9

To anyone actually demanding "They need to actually hire people with all that extra money!" 

To you I say, OPEN YOUR DAMNED EYES!

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18787

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

12/11/13 10:32:19 AM#10
I think the thing being stretched the most is the backers wallets.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon