Trending Games | Elder Scrolls Online | WildStar | ArcheAge | Star Wars: The Old Republic

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,644,184 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,077,807
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » About the abundance of choice

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
43 posts found
  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5366

I dare you to pin a label on me.

 
OP  12/08/13 5:24:24 AM#1

I don't remember where I heard this. In a video, podcast or whatever, there was a guy who talked about how the abundance of choice has made picky about what we watch, listen to, or read. He used TV shows as an example and stated how "back in the day" you didn't have as many channels as you have now, so you watched what was on and had a much better chance of learning to appreciate it.

If we apply that thought on all media and entertainment...

  • we've always had the chance to listen to the genre of music we like,
  • we can choose our news channels,
  • what shows we follow,
  • which forums we visit,
  • which users we want to block
  • and the games we want to play.
Think about that the next time someone suggests some sub-genre to break off or proposes a sub-forum or a whole new forum for a specific sub-genre. Also, if you look at some of the voiced reasons why people don't play a particular game seem really petty:
  • "I played GW1 for 15 minutes, couldn't jump, uninstalled"
  • "I don't play F2P"
  • "I don't play games without crafting"
  • "There was no elves" / "The game has elves"
  • "I could not roll a female/male [insert class here]"
Preferences are one thing, but reading stuff like this I can't help but feel that all they are doing is coming up with excuses. If you had only one MMORPG, you'd learn to appreciate it, whether you initially didn't. Either that or you wouldn't be playing MMORPGs at all.
 
Can you call yourself a gamer if the only games you enjoy are MMOs? Or can you call yourself a "MMORPGer" if there is only one MMORPG type you like.
 
Your thoughts?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  maplestone

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

12/08/13 6:11:16 AM#2

I used to be fine with a computer that had 5K of RAM.  The existance of competition has allowed my standards to rise.

If I have a choice of entertainment, I choose the option which I expect I will most enjoy.  I'm all for finding the fun, but I'm not in this for a "gamer" title.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5366

I dare you to pin a label on me.

 
OP  12/08/13 6:27:35 AM#3
Originally posted by maplestone

I used to be fine with a computer that had 5K of RAM.  The existance of competition has allowed my standards to rise.

If I have a choice of entertainment, I choose the option which I expect I will most enjoy.  I'm all for finding the fun, but I'm not in this for a "gamer" title.

Do you think the freedom to choose exactly what you want hasn't affected the way you perceive and perhaps appreciate other games?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18367

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

12/08/13 6:45:53 AM#4
Originally posted by Quirhid

I don't remember where I heard this. In the video, podcast or whatever, there was a guy who talked about how the abundance of choice has made picky about what we watch, listen to, or read. He used TV shows as an example and stated how "back in the day" you didn't have as many channels as you have now, so you watched what was on and had a much better chance of learning to appreciate it.

So very true, in my town we had 2 channels when the 3rd arrived in 1964, and my parent's loved what these three offered.  Now my TV has literally hundreds of channels yet my wife frequently flips through most of them saying she can't find anything to watch. (I really don't watch TV, I just play it for the background noise and to humor her.)

If we apply that thought on all media and entertainment...

  • we've always had the chance to listen to the genre of music we like, (yet I only listen to modern alternative rock)
  • we can choose our news channels, (I read the newspaper, I'm "old-school remember?)
  • what shows we follow, (I watch what my wife wants to watch)
  • which forums we visit, (I know there's thousands out there, I only really visit this one, with an occasional visit to my freeshard one)
  • which users we want to block (surprisingly, no one on my block list on this site, I'm pretty thick skinned, in game gold spammers get it for the most part.)
  • and the games we want to play. (MMORPG's only, and normally only 1 at a time, I'm a purist not a tourist)
Think about that the next time someone suggests some sub-genre to break off or proposes a sub-forum or a whole new forum for a specific sub-genre. Also, if you look at some of the voiced reasons why people don't play a particular game seem really petty:
  • "I played GW1 for 15 minutes, couldn't jump, uninstalled"
  • "I don't play F2P"
  • "I don't play games without crafting"
  • "There was no elves" / "The game has elves"
  • "I could not roll a female/male [insert class here]"
Preferences are one thing, but reading stuff like this I can't help but feel that all they are doing is coming up with excuses. If you had only one MMORPG, you'd learn to appreciate it, whether you initially didn't. Either that or you wouldn't be playing MMORPGs at all.
OK, I'll agree with you here, most of those reasons are silly, and none of them would be the entire reason I didn't play a game.  They could be part of it though, I really don't like games where I can't jump (GW1 was annoying in this way), there's never been a F2P from the start game I really liked, though I am currently playing a totally freeshard game, and I do strongly prefer to roll male characters.  But if one of the items is, gear centric, raiding end game a la most standard theme parks today, I'm out from that one alone, I'm just not playing those sort of games anymore, even if they are the last game on earth.
 
Can you call yourself a gamer if the only games you enjoy are MMOs? Or can you call yourself a "MMORPGer" if there is only one MMORPG type you like.
 
Your thoughts?

Of course I'm a gamer, even though I only like MMORPGs.  Is someone a sports fan if they only like to watch one sport?  (My father really only enjoyed watching football and golf, didn't care for anything else, and maybe the Olympics.)

Since there is little agreement on MMORPG type, it's very easy to cross over in the genre, I've loved games like L1, L2, DAOC, Shadowbane, WOW, and EVE.  OK, those are the only games I've really enjoyed for the longer term, but I did find fun for awhile in most other major titles since (for at least a month or 3 anyways)

And despite my mostly jaded attitude, I still look towards the horizon at some of the upcoming newer, titles, as I'm sure one day MMOs will change once again and perhaps start focusing more on game play elements that I enjoy.

"The discrepancy between what we know is possible and what we currently have to choose from is beyond disappointing" - GeezerGamer
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Newfr

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 126

12/08/13 6:48:24 AM#5
Originally posted by Quirhid

Do you think the freedom to choose exactly what you want hasn't affected the way you perceive and perhaps appreciate other games?

Basically you saying this: Imagine you like cola but dislike cherry. And possibly if there were only cola with cherry flavour you may get used to it and drink.

The answer is NO. Chances are that people don't buy at all something that doesn't suit their needs well. So that's why we have all this cherry, lemon, whatever flavoured cola - to please everyone and get maximum profit by doing so.

P.S. Most (like 99%) "MMORPGers" don't role play so it's just "MMO gamers" at best. And since most MMOs now are more like SP games with random dudes in it... it's more like "online" and "offline" gamers.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5366

I dare you to pin a label on me.

 
OP  12/08/13 6:52:55 AM#6
Originally posted by Newfr
Originally posted by Quirhid

Do you think the freedom to choose exactly what you want hasn't affected the way you perceive and perhaps appreciate other games?

Basically you saying this: Imagine you like cola but dislike cherry. And possibly if there were only cola with cherry flavour you may get used to it and drink.

The answer is NO. Chances are that people don't buy at all something that doesn't suit their needs well. So that's why we have all this cherry, lemon, whatever flavoured cola - to please everyone and get maximum profit by doing so.

What I am saying is that if you have only cherry flavored cola to drink, you are more likely to learn to appreciate it. Because you have choices, it is easy to dismiss cherry flavored cola, even if you could learn to like it eventually.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  maplestone

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

12/08/13 6:53:00 AM#7
Originally posted by Quirhid

Do you think the freedom to choose exactly what you want hasn't affected the way you perceive and perhaps appreciate other games?

No MMO has ever delivered the game I've been dreaming to see ... to me, they're all still just shadows of the fantasy world I want (and probably always will be).  

That said, each new generation of technology will affect my minimum expectations.  For example, I revisited UO briefly after several years of playing 3d games and my imagination had a very hard time adjusting.  I just couldn't see the world with my old eyes.  When I tried Ryzom a few years back, I found it jarring that I couldn't jump over what seemed like tiny changes in elevation.  So yes, even though graphics engines are not what I set out to look for in games, they do affect my minimum standards. 

One of the reasons I've been nervous about the trend of adding full-speech dialogue is that I'm worried that once I get used it, I woun't be able to comfortably go back to text boxes ... but at the same time, the worlds I want to see cannot be done with pre-scripted diallogue.

( I don't want to talk about business models because I'll start twitching and frothing at the mouth )
  mmo11

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/08/13
Posts: 17

12/08/13 7:06:32 AM#8

Yes and no,

Sure we have a lot of games with others on line, BUT they are shallow and not community worlds as mmos are to be !

 

So "  Yes " we have more games to choose from " No " they are not mmo's.

  Newfr

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 126

12/08/13 7:14:01 AM#9
Originally posted by Quirhid

What I am saying is that if you have only cherry flavored cola to drink, you are more likely to learn to appreciate it. Because you have choices, it is easy to dismiss cherry flavored cola, even if you could learn to like it eventually.

There are two different matters. One is things you sure you don't like at all. For me that's free PvP with full loot. If there were only MMORPGs with free PvP and full loot that would be a dead genre for me. Like in your example with TV there is a choice not to watch TV at all (and you forgot to mention that). I just don't see a point buying something i'm sure i don't like. That's my money i and i don't have much to just throw em left and right.

The other thing is things you are not sure about. Like F2P. Usually i avoid this games because of poor quality, p2w and other issues. But if i'll hear from people that F2P game "A" is good i'll try it. I can even stick with it for some time (like i did with WoT). But that's because i lose nothing in trying it.  If that will be a p2p game without any trial period or something i'll think twice about it and still there is a 50% chance i'll buy and try it (depends mostly on who recommend this game to me).

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

12/08/13 7:59:47 AM#10
Originally posted by Kyleran

 
Can you call yourself a gamer if the only games you enjoy are MMOs? Or can you call yourself a "MMORPGer" if there is only one MMORPG type you like.
 
Your thoughts?

Of course I'm a gamer, even though I only like MMORPGs.  Is someone a sports fan if they only like to watch one sport? 

No, they are a  [that sport] fan.

 

"Ah, you're a sports fan, too?"

"Yeah!"

"See the Lakers' game last night?"

"I don't follow basketball."

"So you're more of a baseball kind of guy?"

"Nope. Don't really care for baseball."

"Hockey?"

"Nah."

"Soccer? Football?"

"Football! Yes, I do watch football! And golf, too. Love golf."

 

 

 

 

  goboygo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 261

12/08/13 9:34:44 AM#11

How could you lump F2P into an argument about people being accepting of gameplay changes.  Learning to enjoy or like things in life that offer a different experience than we expect is one thing.  Asking people to spend more money than they used to on the same experience and questioning why they don't learn to adapt is idiotic.

You can't mix math with personal growth in this situation.  If the same thing I used to get suddenly costs twice as much to be enjoyable I'm going  to be pissed off and not buy the product.  Its not a matter of me having too many choices and being picky.

Save that analogy for the intangible things like color, and game play design.  Not math 101.

  iridescence

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

12/08/13 3:32:30 PM#12
Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

No, they are a  [that sport] fan.

 

"Ah, you're a sports fan, too?"

"Yeah!"

"See the Lakers' game last night?"

"I don't follow basketball."

"So you're more of a baseball kind of guy?"

"Nope. Don't really care for baseball."

"Hockey?"

"Nah."

"Soccer? Football?"

"Football! Yes, I do watch football! And golf, too. Love golf."

 

Nah... they are till a sports fan.  If someone is a huge baseball fan and watches or listens to all 162+ games their team of choice plays and goes to a few games every year, they are pretty fanatic about a sport (literal definition of fan).  It doesn't matter that they don't also follow basketball/football/hockey.

 

Same as person who plays EVE 6 hours a day for years and doesn't touch any other game is still both an "MMO fan and a "gamer" since EVE is in the genre of both "game" and "MMO"

 

  greenreen

Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1375

12/08/13 3:34:04 PM#13
Originally posted by goboygo

How could you lump F2P into an argument about people being accepting of gameplay changes.  Learning to enjoy or like things in life that offer a different experience than we expect is one thing.  Asking people to spend more money than they used to on the same experience and questioning why they don't learn to adapt is idiotic.

You can't mix math with personal growth in this situation.  If the same thing I used to get suddenly costs twice as much to be enjoyable I'm going  to be pissed off and not buy the product.  Its not a matter of me having too many choices and being picky.

Save that analogy for the intangible things like color, and game play design.  Not math 101.

Why do some people never tip?

Why do some people stay on welfare for as long as possible or look for government handouts?

Why does some people equate to 37%+43% of general players.

http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/EEDAR+news/feature.asp?c=44804

From that graphic, you can see that the sweet spot people want to pay for is between 0.00 to 0.94 a month when they have the choice of choosing the payment amount made.

They brought that into the topic because they think that with 80% of players ingrained in the payment model they won't have resistance and what they do get as resistance will be over talked by everyone who has a great time in the games and is spending less without any concern of if it's sustainable over time. The vocal people who don't spend money in those games outweigh those who do so the input is going to favor them. It's also mildly humiliating to admit that you pay more than others because of your vanity so you won't hear from big spenders either to support you. Their bet is hedged you might say. Plus the more you comment against it with truths people will accuse you of talking about it all the time since they won't weigh the facts at all and keep talking. They won't admit that it's subsidized gaming. They won't admit that it's volatile because it relies on less than 5% of the gaming population to sustain it and they won't call it bad business even when the market is over-saturated with titles. If the right 5% leave free to play games, the entire model crumbles. Those games will fall off the face of the planet because they are a stack of blocks with pieces removed.

 

 

 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

12/08/13 6:11:14 PM#14
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by goboygo

How could you lump F2P into an argument about people being accepting of gameplay changes.  Learning to enjoy or like things in life that offer a different experience than we expect is one thing.  Asking people to spend more money than they used to on the same experience and questioning why they don't learn to adapt is idiotic.

You can't mix math with personal growth in this situation.  If the same thing I used to get suddenly costs twice as much to be enjoyable I'm going  to be pissed off and not buy the product.  Its not a matter of me having too many choices and being picky.

Save that analogy for the intangible things like color, and game play design.  Not math 101.

Why do some people never tip?

Why do some people stay on welfare for as long as possible or look for government handouts?

Why does some people equate to 37%+43% of general players.

http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/EEDAR+news/feature.asp?c=44804

From that graphic, you can see that the sweet spot people want to pay for is between 0.00 to 0.94 a month when they have the choice of choosing the payment amount made.

They brought that into the topic because they think that with 80% of players ingrained in the payment model they won't have resistance and what they do get as resistance will be over talked by everyone who has a great time in the games and is spending less without any concern of if it's sustainable over time. The vocal people who don't spend money in those games outweigh those who do so the input is going to favor them. It's also mildly humiliating to admit that you pay more than others because of your vanity so you won't hear from big spenders either to support you. Their bet is hedged you might say. Plus the more you comment against it with truths people will accuse you of talking about it all the time since they won't weigh the facts at all and keep talking. They won't admit that it's subsidized gaming. They won't admit that it's volatile because it relies on less than 5% of the gaming population to sustain it and they won't call it bad business even when the market is over-saturated with titles. If the right 5% leave free to play games, the entire model crumbles. Those games will fall off the face of the planet because they are a stack of blocks with pieces removed.

 

That graph could be used to represent spending on any entertainment product or service. If anything, it means mobile games are simply business as usual.

  Vutar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/09
Posts: 727

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. -George Santayana

12/08/13 6:25:05 PM#15
Originally posted by Quirhid

I don't remember where I heard this. In a video, podcast or whatever, there was a guy who talked about how the abundance of choice has made picky about what we watch, listen to, or read. He used TV shows as an example and stated how "back in the day" you didn't have as many channels as you have now, so you watched what was on and had a much better chance of learning to appreciate it.

If we apply that thought on all media and entertainment...

  • we've always had the chance to listen to the genre of music we like,
  • we can choose our news channels,
  • what shows we follow,
  • which forums we visit,
  • which users we want to block
  • and the games we want to play.
Think about that the next time someone suggests some sub-genre to break off or proposes a sub-forum or a whole new forum for a specific sub-genre. Also, if you look at some of the voiced reasons why people don't play a particular game seem really petty:
  • "I played GW1 for 15 minutes, couldn't jump, uninstalled"
  • "I don't play F2P"
  • "I don't play games without crafting"
  • "There was no elves" / "The game has elves"
  • "I could not roll a female/male [insert class here]"
Preferences are one thing, but reading stuff like this I can't help but feel that all they are doing is coming up with excuses. If you had only one MMORPG, you'd learn to appreciate it, whether you initially didn't. Either that or you wouldn't be playing MMORPGs at all.
 
Can you call yourself a gamer if the only games you enjoy are MMOs? Or can you call yourself a "MMORPGer" if there is only one MMORPG type you like.
 
Your thoughts?

 

My thoughts? Just another F2P player complaining about the direction F2P has taken the genre. Welcome to the world you created. Comical that you put "I don't play F2P" as a negative yet you didn't include "I don't play sub games." Obvious bias is obvious.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2159

12/08/13 6:38:11 PM#16
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Newfr
Originally posted by Quirhid

Do you think the freedom to choose exactly what you want hasn't affected the way you perceive and perhaps appreciate other games?

Basically you saying this: Imagine you like cola but dislike cherry. And possibly if there were only cola with cherry flavour you may get used to it and drink.

The answer is NO. Chances are that people don't buy at all something that doesn't suit their needs well. So that's why we have all this cherry, lemon, whatever flavoured cola - to please everyone and get maximum profit by doing so.

What I am saying is that if you have only cherry flavored cola to drink, you are more likely to learn to appreciate it. Because you have choices, it is easy to dismiss cherry flavored cola, even if you could learn to like it eventually.

 Sure if one is FORCED to endure, put up with, and stomach something long enough one might actually find it not to be so bad but what is your point? Are you saying choice should be removed and people should have less options so they are forced to appreciate something that's a lot less then they might normally like?

  With enough conditioning and reinforcement (brainwashing?) almost anyone can be made to see things in a different light and made to like things they never would have previously. 

 Kids might normally enjoy playing games on their xbox, but take all that away and lock them in a empty room long enough with nothing but a rock and they will learn to play with and appreciate the rock :P

  shirlnt

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/06
Posts: 350

12/08/13 6:46:57 PM#17
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Newfr
Originally posted by Quirhid

Do you think the freedom to choose exactly what you want hasn't affected the way you perceive and perhaps appreciate other games?

Basically you saying this: Imagine you like cola but dislike cherry. And possibly if there were only cola with cherry flavour you may get used to it and drink.

The answer is NO. Chances are that people don't buy at all something that doesn't suit their needs well. So that's why we have all this cherry, lemon, whatever flavoured cola - to please everyone and get maximum profit by doing so.

What I am saying is that if you have only cherry flavored cola to drink, you are more likely to learn to appreciate it. Because you have choices, it is easy to dismiss cherry flavored cola, even if you could learn to like it eventually.

Don't like cherries, or anything cherry flavored so unless cherry cola were the only thing to drink, becoming a choice of it versus dehydration/death, chances are I'm not going to drink it.  Since games are not a matter of life or death, if there is a feature in it that I strongly dislike, chances are I'm not going to play it even if it is the only game available.  If a game is good but doesn't meet all my preferences, I might play it.  While people might adjust to certain features if that was all they knew in gaming, people have varying reasons for their deal-breakers when it comes to gaming, although those deal-breakers may seem silly to you.  Also, MMOs are not the only genre of games out there.  Even if there were only one MMO to play, while people might be less picky about certain features, if that MMO had features that people did not enjoy or didn't have features they wanted, they might simply choose not to play an MMO.  If that MMO was the only video game in existence, if there were features that people did not like or a lack of features they did like, they might choose not to play video games.

As far as what defines a gamer, if how many games and what types of game determine whether or not a person can be considered a gamer, what else is going to go into what defines a gamer? how many hours they spend playing? how many different gaming systems they own? how much they read about or study games? What percentage of each is needed to be considered a gamer? Who deserves the title of gamer: the person who loves every genre but only plays one hour a week on the computer or the person who will only play one genre but owns every gaming system available and plays 3 or 4 hours every day?  Isn't a [video] gamer someone who plays video games?  Beyond that is there a definition of how many or what types of games the person must play/enjoy in order to be considered a gamer?

  greenreen

Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1375

12/08/13 7:29:02 PM#18
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by goboygo

How could you lump F2P into an argument about people being accepting of gameplay changes.  Learning to enjoy or like things in life that offer a different experience than we expect is one thing.  Asking people to spend more money than they used to on the same experience and questioning why they don't learn to adapt is idiotic.

You can't mix math with personal growth in this situation.  If the same thing I used to get suddenly costs twice as much to be enjoyable I'm going  to be pissed off and not buy the product.  Its not a matter of me having too many choices and being picky.

Save that analogy for the intangible things like color, and game play design.  Not math 101.

Why do some people never tip?

Why do some people stay on welfare for as long as possible or look for government handouts?

Why does some people equate to 37%+43% of general players.

http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/EEDAR+news/feature.asp?c=44804

From that graphic, you can see that the sweet spot people want to pay for is between 0.00 to 0.94 a month when they have the choice of choosing the payment amount made.

They brought that into the topic because they think that with 80% of players ingrained in the payment model they won't have resistance and what they do get as resistance will be over talked by everyone who has a great time in the games and is spending less without any concern of if it's sustainable over time. The vocal people who don't spend money in those games outweigh those who do so the input is going to favor them. It's also mildly humiliating to admit that you pay more than others because of your vanity so you won't hear from big spenders either to support you. Their bet is hedged you might say. Plus the more you comment against it with truths people will accuse you of talking about it all the time since they won't weigh the facts at all and keep talking. They won't admit that it's subsidized gaming. They won't admit that it's volatile because it relies on less than 5% of the gaming population to sustain it and they won't call it bad business even when the market is over-saturated with titles. If the right 5% leave free to play games, the entire model crumbles. Those games will fall off the face of the planet because they are a stack of blocks with pieces removed.

 

That graph could be used to represent spending on any entertainment product or service. If anything, it means mobile games are simply business as usual.

Mobile and PC. The two are not separate because players spill over into both.

Here's the stat for PC included. It also dissolves the other myth - people pay for free games because they want to pay to get ahead and don't have time for the game. Also not true, they pay because they choose to and when they choose to stop paying, it will affect everyone who doesn't pay. Talk about shouldering the load, putting in more time and paying more, those are true martyrs right there. It's also not all old people paying. I keep saying this and people keep acting like the researchers aren't backing it up.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18y4m0v4a9gpnpng/ku-xlarge.png

The reason mobile stats are good is because many of them are players new to this genre. To know what they like gives you insight on how they work into our games that existed before mobile.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

12/08/13 8:34:32 PM#19
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by goboygo

How could you lump F2P into an argument about people being accepting of gameplay changes.  Learning to enjoy or like things in life that offer a different experience than we expect is one thing.  Asking people to spend more money than they used to on the same experience and questioning why they don't learn to adapt is idiotic.

You can't mix math with personal growth in this situation.  If the same thing I used to get suddenly costs twice as much to be enjoyable I'm going  to be pissed off and not buy the product.  Its not a matter of me having too many choices and being picky.

Save that analogy for the intangible things like color, and game play design.  Not math 101.

Why do some people never tip?

Why do some people stay on welfare for as long as possible or look for government handouts?

Why does some people equate to 37%+43% of general players.

http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/EEDAR+news/feature.asp?c=44804

From that graphic, you can see that the sweet spot people want to pay for is between 0.00 to 0.94 a month when they have the choice of choosing the payment amount made.

They brought that into the topic because they think that with 80% of players ingrained in the payment model they won't have resistance and what they do get as resistance will be over talked by everyone who has a great time in the games and is spending less without any concern of if it's sustainable over time. The vocal people who don't spend money in those games outweigh those who do so the input is going to favor them. It's also mildly humiliating to admit that you pay more than others because of your vanity so you won't hear from big spenders either to support you. Their bet is hedged you might say. Plus the more you comment against it with truths people will accuse you of talking about it all the time since they won't weigh the facts at all and keep talking. They won't admit that it's subsidized gaming. They won't admit that it's volatile because it relies on less than 5% of the gaming population to sustain it and they won't call it bad business even when the market is over-saturated with titles. If the right 5% leave free to play games, the entire model crumbles. Those games will fall off the face of the planet because they are a stack of blocks with pieces removed.

 

That graph could be used to represent spending on any entertainment product or service. If anything, it means mobile games are simply business as usual.

Mobile and PC. 

Mobile, PC, sports, Trekkies, model ship builders... the graph will be the same. PC falls into the same category as "any." ;) 

Most people are passive enthusiasts when it comes to their preferred entertainment. As it moves up the scale you go through a slow rise and then the massive fanatic upswing, swooping into that 1% that plaster their house, body and surroundings with it. Business as usual. 

  greenreen

Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1375

12/08/13 8:50:39 PM#20
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by goboygo
...snip
...snip

 

...snip

...snip

Mobile, PC, sports, Trekkies, model ship builders... the graph will be the same. PC falls into the same category as "any." ;) 

Most people are passive enthusiasts when it comes to their preferred entertainment. As it moves up the scale you go through a slow rise and then the massive fanatic upswing, swooping into that 1% that plaster their house, body and surroundings with it. Business as usual. 

So, your thought is, take advantage of the fans and let all the other people ride for free. You think that they won't ever become exhausted or deplete their funds. They are a piggy bank that is constantly full and they can't ever die and/or take away that money or simply run out of it.

Or is it more like, let a sucker be a sucker and profiting from a gambling addiction is the cool way to do business.  I say the model is broken, it may not show today but it has to falter because the people who don't have a history of paying aren't going to produce children who suddenly want to pay unless there is a huge shift somewhere. Who will replace the suckers or if they notice their yummy tasty center and the stick up their butt, who is going to stop them from leaving, are the games going to say "It's double free this week, oh do come back!". You can't get cheaper than free, it's bottom of the barrel so what carrot can be put in front of them to woo them from that other free game that is shinier than you and came out yesterday. You are so old news, you are 4 weeks old.

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search