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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  »  EA Reveals that their SW deal done in May 2013 lasts a full decade

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278 posts found
  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5427

12/04/13 1:55:31 AM#101
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by JeroKane
 

Dude, sorry but you very clearly never played SWG. That much is obvious.

I was there from beginning till NGE and Beyond and I can tell you SWG´s prime did not last 2 years, nor did it had 350k subs 2 years later or we wouldn´t have gotten the NGE.

SWG only had 2 very high pop servers. Eclipse (I was on that one) and Farstrider (if I remember correctly), the rest of the server´s pops were so so.

Jump to Lightspeed completely wrecked the groundgame, causing horrendous lag, rubberbanding issues and other performance issues, which made a lot of People (who were not interested in the Space flightsimulator) to ragequit!

It took them months to fix the most of the serious issues. A lot of People were not that patient and quit long before!

The vast majority of People wanted SOE to focus on the ground game and improve that. Expand on the Galactic War (meaningfull PVP and PVE With more focus on the war) and were angry that SOE instead focused on launching a Space Simulator as expansion. (don´t get me wrong I loved it, as I am a Space sim fan, but the majority of SWG subscribers were RPG players, not spacesim players).

And that the Spacesim expansion wrecked the groundgame, created quite some anger among the community.

My 300+ member guild at that time, took a serious nosedive straight Down after JTL expac and later the CU. Before JTL I had about 200+ peeps on during primetimes. After JTL and CU I had only 5-10 peeps on during primetime.

The NGE was just the final nail in the coffin.

That was pretty much my experience. I was on Corbantis and the population(as well as the game) was never stable. When it worked it was fun, but the fun didn't last as the DEVS seemed to care more about making Jedi happy than fixing the rest of their game. Our small guild was pretty tight nit and we weathered every storm that SOE threw at us but NGE was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's also ironic that the same type of crowd who told the Vets to "Get Over It Or Leave" are still whining about the NGE closing two years later and have taken their anger to a totally different game that always said from the beginning it wasn't going to be SWG/NGE 2. At some point they should take their own advise and move on. 

It´s because these so called SWG Vets either never played the game at the time or have simply forgotten how the game really was before the NGE.

They just use SWG as an excuse to vent their anger and trash another game they do not like. /shrug

 

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5427

12/04/13 2:33:52 AM#102
Originally posted by DocBrody
 

 

and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago

Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug

This crap is getting old.

  Hellidol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 410

12/04/13 3:05:40 AM#103
Originally posted by BadOrb

That's hopeful news for SWTOR , maybe even a SWTOR 2. I liked reading that they don't want to make actual movie tie ins too. The best bit was this though and I don't know how true it is , isn't everything true on the internet ? Was this quote from the replies in that thread.

"(REDDIT figures, feel free to completely ignore but just for sh*ts and giggles)

Total sales of all Star Wars titles across handheld, TV'd boxes and PC for the last 15 years - ~$2,000,000,000

Total spent by SW:TOR players (1,000,000 active) Average $28.50 per month for the last 12 months(mostly from microtrans but includes subs and the sales of first expansion, does not include first year of sales or subs for some reason) - $342,000,000. Roughly 1/6 that of every Star Wars game added together this generation.

SW:TOR is the most successful Star Wars title of all time, and will only become more so for as long as it runs." quote from distanlurker.

Will this news shut up the SWG people from asking for a SWG2 ? No , obviously.

O nearly forgot BioWare are hiring yet again :) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6958438#edit6958438

In the voice of Yazz and the plastic population "The only way is up , baby". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtKADQnjQmc

Cheers,

BadOrb.

dont hate on SWG, it was good and so is this game. SWTOR is just not enough of anything, starfighters now are a blast and did really good.

  Frostvein

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 160

12/04/13 1:10:43 PM#104
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by DocBrody
 

 

and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago

Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug

This crap is getting old.

Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.

Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.

 

Look at it like this -  TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.

 

  ajax7

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 367

The Greatest Story Ever Told Yours.

12/04/13 1:19:46 PM#105
SWG did have a cash shop selling the cards with a chance to get cool in game stuff so wrong.

Ajax

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/04/13 1:21:42 PM#106
Originally posted by Frostvein
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by DocBrody
 

 

and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago

Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug

This crap is getting old.

Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.

Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.

 

Look at it like this -  TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.

 

 

Hey could you give some specific examples instead of using some cell phone analogy?  And I dont agree with it's ok to have bugs because it was released 5 years ago that argument really doesn't make sense.  
  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4154

Trolls will be ignored

12/04/13 1:34:11 PM#107
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by Frostvein
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by DocBrody
 

 

and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago

Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug

This crap is getting old.

Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.

Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.

 

Look at it like this -  TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.

 

 

Hey could you give some specific examples instead of using some cell phone analogy?  And I dont agree with it's ok to have bugs because it was released 5 years ago that argument really doesn't make sense.  

 

No kidding. I'd rather have less features and a workable game than more features that don't work and ruins the gaming experience.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Frostvein

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 160

12/04/13 1:39:14 PM#108
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by Frostvein
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by DocBrody
 

 

and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago

Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug

This crap is getting old.

Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.

Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.

 

Look at it like this -  TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.

 

 

Hey could you give some specific examples instead of using some cell phone analogy?  And I dont agree with it's ok to have bugs because it was released 5 years ago that argument really doesn't make sense.  

 

Sure. My point about the bugs is that its ridiculous to call out a game for having bugs when your game is also really buggy. Pot calling kettle black, etc.

 

At launch, no Day/Night Cycle, guild banks, cross server, chairs, chat bubbles, macros, combat logging, server transfers, UI customization, etc.

 

Some of this stuff still isn't in (day/night cycle), some of this stuff is (guild banks, combat logging, UI customization) and some of it never will be (chat bubbles, macros)

 

There is/are some more things but nothing on that list is exactly new to the MMO scene - most of that stuff has been around since the birth of the genre.

  vveaver_online

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/27/03
Posts: 271

To weave the fabric of space and time into one life through the games we play!

12/04/13 1:47:55 PM#109

Hey im not gonna go on record to say SWTOR is a bad game.. Ill say it like this instead:

 

I played SWG for 4 years, grinding between 7-12 hours per day, having multiple accounts and millions of credits and rare materials.

I played SWTOR for two months made it to lv 47 with one character no alts, then I quit.

 

Wait I know I can make a whole list of mmo's and /played that way I have no say in if I liked the game or not just let the gametime speak for itself.

 

Ultima Online = played 4 years, quit because of trammel.

SWG = played 4 Years, quit because of the NGE.

Wow = played 4 years, quit because they slowely killed world pvp.

DaoC = played about 12 months, quit to start playing swg.

TSW = played about 12 months so far (still playing)

Swtor = played two months, made it to lv47, then i just stopped, even though I love Star Wars and MMOs, the game felt like a very grindy singelplayer game with pretty bad story.. even though story, remains their selling point.

 

 

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5427

12/04/13 2:34:25 PM#110
Originally posted by Frostvein
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by DocBrody
 

 

and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago

Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug

This crap is getting old.

Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.

Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.

 

Look at it like this -  TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.

 

Bioware focused on the Storyline With full voice overs. That's where all the Money went. Was never a Secret!

They also have always been completely honest and perfectly Clear that SW:TOR will not and never will be SWG 2.0!

And I rather have less features in a game at launch and a more polished game!

SOE went overboard With SWG and their codebase was a Complete mess! Hence, why they had such an enormous trouble at the time to fix bugs and issues!  A lot they were never able to fix!

Anyone that was there when the JTL expansion hit the live servers, can tell you what happend and the Complete mess it was.

Took them months to fix most of the Critical issues! They lost a ton of players at that time, who were angry and ragequited!

My large guild took a straight nosedive into the ground and so were many other Guilds. Most of the player cities and guild cities had turned into ghost towns. :-/

 

I enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time. It was a Star Wars game, it had a great community and a player driven economy! It had basically no competition when it launched, as the market wasn't completely saturated yet as it is now.

But I also still perfectly remember the darkside of the game and the aftermath of the JTL expansion, the later CU update and the final nail in the coffin called the NGE.

 

At least I am honest With myself, enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time and moved on after the NGE.

At least I don't Waste my entire life being upset over a game long gone and spend a decade full of hate and anger bashing SOE, troll every single game forum, like this one. And now spending two years trolling and venting anger against SW:TOR, because it didn't turn out the game you wanted it to be ( SWG 2.0 ).

/shrug

  User Deleted
12/04/13 2:39:18 PM#111
Originally posted by JeroKane
 

Bioware focused on the Storyline With full voice overs. That's where all the Money went. Was never a Secret!

 

That is not true.  James Ohlen stated the following earlier this year:

"[Voice acting] was a known entity, and cost was quite low in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project."

 

Source:  http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/

  Frostvein

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 160

12/04/13 2:42:33 PM#112
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Frostvein
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by DocBrody
 

 

and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago

Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug

This crap is getting old.

Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.

Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.

 

Look at it like this -  TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.

 

Bioware focused on the Storyline With full voice overs. That's where all the Money went. Was never a Secret!

They also have always been completely honest and perfectly Clear that SW:TOR will not and never will be SWG 2.0!

And I rather have less features in a game at launch and a more polished game!

SOE went overboard With SWG and their codebase was a Complete mess! Hence, why they had such an enormous trouble at the time to fix bugs and issues!  A lot they were never able to fix!

Anyone that was there when the JTL expansion hit the live servers, can tell you what happend and the Complete mess it was.

Took them months to fix most of the Critical issues! They lost a ton of players at that time, who were angry and ragequited!

My large guild took a straight nosedive into the ground and so were many other Guilds. Most of the player cities and guild cities had turned into ghost towns. :-/

 

I enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time. It was a Star Wars game, it had a great community and a player driven economy! It had basically no competition when it launched, as the market wasn't completely saturated yet as it is now.

But I also still perfectly remember the darkside of the game and the aftermath of the JTL expansion, the later CU update and the final nail in the coffin called the NGE.

 

At least I am honest With myself, enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time and moved on after the NGE.

At least I don't Waste my entire life being upset over a game long gone and spend a decade full of hate and anger bashing SOE, troll every single game forum, like this one. And now spending two years trolling and venting anger against SW:TOR, because it didn't turn out the game you wanted it to be ( SWG 2.0 ).

/shrug

I never played SWG, I think you (maybe not you, but people in general) need to understand that its possible to not like this game based on its merits alone.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5427

12/04/13 3:06:50 PM#113
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by JeroKane
 

Bioware focused on the Storyline With full voice overs. That's where all the Money went. Was never a Secret!

 

That is not true.  James Ohlen stated the following earlier this year:

"[Voice acting] was a known entity, and cost was quite low in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project."

 

Source:  http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/

James Ohlen is the Pinocchio of Bioware. Come on now.

If you read his entire quote, you can perfectly read that he is contradicting himself!

He is just trying to put out the flames, because the game was being bashed on that and nothing else.

It's the primary reason why they will do general planetary storylines only from now on and discontinue the personal class storylines.

Simply because it's too expensive. They don't get the funds for it anymore.

Here have a look at this: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/06/star-wars-the-old-republic-scoops-guinness-world-record-for-voice-acting/

We caught up with game director James Ohlen just before TOR launched and asked him how Bioware made the ambitious decision to create a fully voiced MMO. "That was really exciting," he said. "I remember showing a demo to Ray and Greg to budget, and actually calculated out "here's how much extra money we're going to spend if we're going to do player voice." I did the demo to them and they were like "we have to go this way."
{C}{C}
That was before Ohlen revealed to them the full cost involved, but they still took the plunge. "Ray and Greg are very much about quality so they wanted to. They signed off on an amount. That was a big one I think just because we were gonna be pretty much spent out of time, but we did."

Ohlen didn't give an idea of the amount involved. With over 200 voice actors and 200,000 lines of dialogue, it must have been a pretty huge number.

Come back to me when you've read that and tell me that Voice overs didn't eat a HUGE chunk of their Development Budget.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6721

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

12/04/13 3:31:09 PM#114
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by JeroKane
 

Bioware focused on the Storyline With full voice overs. That's where all the Money went. Was never a Secret!

 

That is not true.  James Ohlen stated the following earlier this year:

"[Voice acting] was a known entity, and cost was quite low in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project."

 

Source:  http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/

James Ohlen is the Pinocchio of Bioware. Come on now.

If you read his entire quote, you can perfectly read that he is contradicting himself!

He is just trying to put out the flames, because the game was being bashed on that and nothing else.

It's the primary reason why they will do general planetary storylines only from now on and discontinue the personal class storylines.

Simply because it's too expensive. They don't get the funds for it anymore.

Here have a look at this: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/06/star-wars-the-old-republic-scoops-guinness-world-record-for-voice-acting/

Come back to me when you've read that and tell me that Voice overs didn't eat a HUGE chunk of their Development Budget.

For sure it was a massive cost. 200 voice actors and 200.000 lines? Yeah if they even used half decent actors, which from the sound of it they did, that would cost tens of millions. And I read somewhere else that it took 12 full time writers over two years to write all those lines. Think about that and how much that costs.

And when you look at the rest of the game. Relatively small ThemePark worlds and licensed Hero Engine, where else was the huge production time and money spent?

  User Deleted
12/05/13 1:15:21 AM#115
Originally posted by Yamota
 

For sure it was a massive cost. 200 voice actors and 200.000 lines? Yeah if they even used half decent actors, which from the sound of it they did, that would cost tens of millions. And I read somewhere else that it took 12 full time writers over two years to write all those lines. Think about that and how much that costs.

And when you look at the rest of the game. Relatively small ThemePark worlds and licensed Hero Engine, where else was the huge production time and money spent?

Of course it cost a lot, I never said it was cheap.  Just that, compared to the rest of their budget, voice overs weren't a large unknown quantity that went over budget.  Take your estimate of "tens of millions" for example.  Lets say voice overs ended up costing them 30 million, against a rough budget of 300 million (industry estimates seem to peg it at around 250 + roaylties and marketing).  That's only 10% of the cost to develop the game, even though 30 million sounds like a really high number.

As for where the money was spent, they've stated many times that most went to QA and building the Hero Engine.  Keep in mind that they basically licensed a very early version of the Hero Engine, and had to do quite a bit work to make it usable for themselves.  It's not like they just got a license and went to work building the worlds.

  simplius

Elite Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 1038

12/05/13 6:42:06 AM#116
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by Kicksave321

You know your hatred for a video game is sad and pathetic by itself.  But to hope people get fired just prove what type of sad pathetic human being some people can be.  Just for the record every mmo lays off people after launch go cry on their sites and a little more tidbit they are now hiring.  Get a life dude Swtor is not going anywhere.

Meh, the pathetic haters can go doing what they want.

SWTOR is growing every day and with more people comes more revenue which results in more content which causes the cycle to repeat. They have been doing an excellent 4-6 week content release cycle and i hope they continue like this.

And seriously, just to screw these pathetic whiners, i hope SWG's sequel or any game like that is never released again, ever.

If it's growing by the day, then why feel the need to defend it with name-calling?

I'm sure just as many people coming, are leaving too. Glad they are adding content, but it's not enough for some.

These people are insulting the works of some people as well as the people themself and want to see them fired over a damned game. Worst part is that the game isn't bad but they are just bitter because it's not what they want and are entitled as fuck (it's not like they can't ignore it and move on). Do they not realise that these guys have a family as well?

AFAIK, most people have families, so that doesnt give any special percs

if you go on stage, and play the fiddle, expect the audience to judge your performance

if youre good, they will throw flowers at you

if your bad, they will throw rotten tomatoes

swtors performance speaks for itself, if you care to listen

If TOR wouldn't be 

a) Star Wars

b) Bioware

any other developer could have earned some more positive feedback,it's not a total desaster after all

 

people expected some overwhelming experience and they own hyped it up with ridiculously good CGI trailers no where near the actual gameplay

 

and they wonder they still get bashed?

 

and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago

true, the quality is there , but not enough

if the game had been as good, as the trailers, they would most definately be nr. 1 now

wows trailers also look better, than the game, but they have an epic game, to match those trailers

without the SW/BW names on the box, they would have sold a lot lesser games..prolly 2/3 less

 

  simplius

Elite Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 1038

12/05/13 6:51:38 AM#117
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Yamota
 

For sure it was a massive cost. 200 voice actors and 200.000 lines? Yeah if they even used half decent actors, which from the sound of it they did, that would cost tens of millions. And I read somewhere else that it took 12 full time writers over two years to write all those lines. Think about that and how much that costs.

And when you look at the rest of the game. Relatively small ThemePark worlds and licensed Hero Engine, where else was the huge production time and money spent?

Of course it cost a lot, I never said it was cheap.  Just that, compared to the rest of their budget, voice overs weren't a large unknown quantity that went over budget.  Take your estimate of "tens of millions" for example.  Lets say voice overs ended up costing them 30 million, against a rough budget of 300 million (industry estimates seem to peg it at around 250 + roaylties and marketing).  That's only 10% of the cost to develop the game, even though 30 million sounds like a really high number.

As for where the money was spent, they've stated many times that most went to QA and building the Hero Engine.  Keep in mind that they basically licensed a very early version of the Hero Engine, and had to do quite a bit work to make it usable for themselves.  It's not like they just got a license and went to work building the worlds.

sorry had a minor meltdown

 

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2833

12/05/13 7:48:31 AM#118
Even the story in swtor is not that good. The one thing they hyped the whole game on is very average even for an mmo.
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16901

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/05/13 7:53:40 AM#119
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Even the story in swtor is not that good. The one thing they hyped the whole game on is very average even for an mmo.

Average for an MMO compared to what MMO's? Average for an RPG maybe, but an MMO?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  simplius

Elite Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 1038

12/07/13 9:04:18 AM#120
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Even the story in swtor is not that good. The one thing they hyped the whole game on is very average even for an mmo.

Average for an MMO compared to what MMO's? Average for an RPG maybe, but an MMO?

yea..the only other mmo, who is close, is TSW..not that it helped them much

GW2 are trying, with a decent result

STO are trying, with a Little lesser success

the biggest problem with SWTORs story, is that it simply takes too long to produce

6 years production= 6 weeks playtime

how many mios of subs would they have needed, to continue the personal stories?

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