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Eldevin

Eldevin 

General Discussion  » Promising game ruined by P2W payment model

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70 posts found
  Scorchien

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/12/06
Posts: 1228

11/28/13 7:55:04 AM#41
Originally posted by HCS-Radneto

We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.

 

you have built a great game .. whiners will always whine becuase they want everything handed to them .... they will fill your forums with rage and tears over a couple backpack spaces because they think they are entitled to it ..

  GwapoJosh

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/12
Posts: 1027

11/28/13 8:01:01 AM#42
Originally posted by Scorchien
Originally posted by HCS-Radneto

We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.

 

you have built a great game .. whiners will always whine becuase they want everything handed to them .... they will fill your forums with rage and tears over a couple backpack spaces because they think they are entitled to it ..

I agree. They are doing a great job with this game!  I'll be there Saturday for sure.

"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 1012

11/28/13 8:19:30 AM#43

As someone that has played quite a few f2p games this one doesn't seem very p2w to me, everything seems rather reasonable, it reminds me a little of  DDO f2p system actually.

 

You want to see p2w games, go play some PW games or aeriagames.

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  RPGForever

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/11
Posts: 118

11/28/13 9:24:18 AM#44
It is not P2W it is only giving the subscribers the chance to take a shortcut to something inevitable you are getting if you play the game often enough.
  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

11/28/13 9:37:05 AM#45

The whole xp pot argument is pretty stupid. In a lvl based system someone higher lvl always has an advantage in pvp, till max lvl. That includes anyone with more time than you. The xp pot doesn't give you any advantage other players can't overcome through time played and someone that is your level isn't at a disadvantage when they fight you.

The whole argument is a knee-jerk reaction to..." but you said it was free"

 

  Betakodo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 339

11/28/13 9:15:05 PM#46
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Betakodo

So in Lineage II, the world's grindiest game (Or it used to before GoD update), if I could buy a buff that gave me +25% exp that wouldn't be PAYing to win? Keep in mind that most of your power in Lineage II is from your level. Also keep in mind that in Chronicle II people were getting like 1-3% exp per hour near max level.

Do any of you guys actually PvP? Level is a major factor in winning, unless everyone has already reached the level cap.

Is Eldevin a game where it takes a year to get to the level cap? I ask that because quite a few are praising it as a UO style game, and in UO (prior to AoS) you could have a very effective PVP character inside of a could of days. The difference between a guy with 80s across his main skills and the 7xGM (7 skills at 100) was minimal outside of the GM title and bragging rights. It definitely didn't determine the outcome of battle.

 

People are saying 2-3 months for the average player to reach the level cap of 45, or is it 50 now? Either way, I can't attest to that, but there are exp potions that you can buy for cash, as well as bag space. If you subscribe you get +25% exp, craft/gather exp, gold and valor. "Convenience items" are also in the cash shop, whatever those may be. Oh yeah and if you subscribe you also get rested exp when logged out.

Never played UO, but level matters due to attribute/talent points. Either way, I will be subscribing for the +exp powers then off to the PvP areas I go for some fun.

  flizzer

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1479

11/28/13 9:33:00 PM#47
I love supporting a game once Ive played it and decided Im going to stick around; I don't like rested xp and exp boosts and such so a sub idea turns me off.  I dont mind taking time to reach max level.  If this is true with a sub I would most likely not do a sub and just donate . Im sure that is possible somehow. 
  SomeHuman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/12
Posts: 310

11/28/13 9:37:53 PM#48
  • I don't think this feels like pay-to-win (getting stuff non-payers can't).  But the OP does say, "I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game" and I like the notion of keeping the payers on  a channel/server or whatever and the non-payers separate.
  • I also feel for the Dev guy in this thread.  I think we SHOULD all go and check out the game Saturday and support this new mmorpg title from a small studio.  Even if we crash the servers while doing so.

Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA

  vladww

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/04
Posts: 430

There are 3 kinds of people - those who can count, and those who can''t.

12/17/13 7:49:02 PM#49

XP pots will always be pay to win in mmorpg's, however you turn it around

And i got 2 friends who won't join  because of it

The sad thing is that Eldevin didn't need to sell these XP boosts

Cosmetics, storage, backpacks would have been enough :

the smart way "Path of Exile" promoted their cash shop, and they are racking big money without these stupid xp boosts.

Eldevin is a Great game but the cash shop is a disaster imo

 

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  MrMelGibson

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/13
Posts: 648

12/17/13 7:53:26 PM#50
Originally posted by vladww

XP pots will always be pay to win in mmorpg's, however you turn it around

And i got 2 friends who won't join  because of it

The sad thing is that Eldevin didn't need to sell these XP boosts

Cosmetics, storage, backpacks would have been enough :

the smart way "Path of Exile" promoted their cash shop, and they are racking big money without these stupid xp boosts.

Eldevin is a Great game but the cash shop is a disaster imo

 

XP boosts are not P2W.  They just help people with less time get to level cap.  What's gonna happen when PoE introduces XP potions?  Will you stop playing it?  (its only a matter of time till they do)

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 5089

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/17/13 7:59:29 PM#51

not on eam F2P as my sig points out but...I'm ok with this model, really.

 

if I can buy cash shop currency from players with in-game gold I'm literarly buying dollar-value with game-currency. and that measn the whole shop now can be accessed just with in-game activities.

 

I'm fine with this model.

 

'payers' will be super rich and I won't but...i have access to the whole game for free.

 

That's Free to Play to me... they payed their way to riches, I played my way to in-game content/items. I'm ok with that. I think if F2P can be done right this is it.

  Bruhza

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 283

12/17/13 8:09:07 PM#52

The only thing I wouldn't agree with would be the fact that I could purchase an exp boost ( I am however fine with the fact the subscribers get it though). If leveling in this game is anything like Runescape, then simply being a higher level in a skill is enough to dominate in PvP, although PvE should be fine. (only reason I say that is due to all of the comments made comparing Runescape/Ultima Online to this game.)

Overall it seems like a good game.

 

On a side note, the face textures kind of creep me out.

  AwDiddums

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/12
Posts: 397

12/23/13 9:15:26 AM#53
Originally posted by Kuviski

 


Originally posted by TableFlipZok

Originally posted by Kuviski Now this information is extremely essential for people interested in the payment model the game uses, and after reading this, I quickly made my decision: I probably wouldn't be playing this game.   I am completely fine with sub fees, I am willing to pay money for content (expansion packs). But I am not willing to pay for increased drops/experience in a world where I compete in XP gains/the economy with the non-subscription players. I am also not willing to play a game that sells useful items (other than vanity) for real money.   I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game.     Its a shame, it really is, that the P2W model ruins otherwise promising games. Does anyone else feel the same in this case?
But if you are too lazy to spend a few more hours to get to max level and raise your skills in a game. Then this is clearly not for you.

I don't see how this is related to the issue.

I would be completely happy if the game didn't even have a F2P option myself, I would play it if it was subscription only. I am willing to pay money for content.

What I am not willing to pay for are things such as increased XP or money rates to advance faster than others.

The system Eldevin uses is precisely a pay-to-win system. The subscribers don't pay their sub because they get more content that way after seeing the free side of the game, they pay it to make their characters more powerful faster. And this is where my problem lies with the model Eldevin uses: I would personally not play a game with a system like this in place.

 

It ties directly into what your complaining about, subs get increased exp/drops, you do not want to pay because of this bonus given to paying members so it must mean your also less likely to put in the extra effort needed to keep up with a paid up member.

 

  Bjelar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/12
Posts: 384

12/23/13 9:17:44 AM#54

If everyone pays, you can not pay to win.

  goboygo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 589

12/23/13 10:45:06 AM#55
Originally posted by Bjelar

If everyone pays, you can not pay to win.

Its sounds like you might be so far removed from the concept of a level playing field for one fee (a sub game) that you have no idea what your even saying at this point.  Unless you are referring to everyone paying as in paying a sub, but you were too vague in your statement for me to know.

 

The more you spend on anything that helps character development in any way the greater advantage you have.  This is not debatable and why I don't touch F2P games.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3293

12/23/13 4:19:11 PM#56

I haven't spent a dime and having a blast with this game.  It's definitely not pay to win...since there's nothing to really win at.  Someday I hope people will learn that MMOs have no winning moment.  I mean you win everytime you kill a monster, everytime you kill a boss, everytime you get some loot.  That's the only winning you get in MMOs, and really nothing other than some super loots that let you kill super easy.  They aren't selling gear, and even though they sell gold, there really isn't much reason to buy gold.  Most of the items you can buy are things like dances and emotes, bags, xp and drop boosters, which really don't make that big of a difference anyways.

 

I played in beta and they gave you free points back then to check out the shop and make sure it works and stuff, and I knew then that this was a payment model I could like.  Even though I normally hate F2P games, this game seems to not turn you into a 2nd class citizen if you don't buy something.

 

The only difference I've noticed between paying and not is you might have to run a dungeon one more time than someone who pays for a drop potion.  You have to run it 5-6 times with a potion, or 6-7 times without, that's not big deal for me.  And that's if you want a full set of gear, if not, you don't even have to run the dungeons hehe

  Torval

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6570

12/23/13 8:02:32 PM#57

I've subscribed and bought $20 in game cash because that's what I do when I play games I like. If someone wants to play free, I think that's great too. I played free from launch until now.

This is a really fun game in my opinion.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

12/23/13 8:07:06 PM#58
I don't think it's P2W at all - however I do think it's one of the most boring grindfests I've played in years.  For the first 10 levels or so it's pretty fun, but it only takes till between levels 15-20 before it hits you and it hits HARD.
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16505

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/13 8:08:07 PM#59
Originally posted by Kuviski
Originally posted by TableFlipZok
Originally posted by Kuviski

I don't see how this is related to the issue.

I would be completely happy if the game didn't even have a F2P option myself, I would play it if it was subscription only. I am willing to pay money for content.

What I am not willing to pay for are things such as increased XP or money rates to advance faster than others.

The system Eldevin uses is precisely a pay-to-win system. The subscribers don't pay their sub because they get more content that way after seeing the free side of the game, they pay it to make their characters more powerful faster. And this is where my problem lies with the model Eldevin uses: I would personally not play a game with a system like this in place.

 

It is still not a P2W system

You can dislike how they set it up as much as you want. But its still not a P2W system.

You pay to advance faster than others. This is precisely what pay-to-win is, and I cannot see what you think pay-to-win means if you don't consider the current system to be exactly that.

Wouldn't they also serve a purpose for those with less time to play to catch up to friends that play more? You seem to be focusing too much thought into how this is bad, and little on why it's good.

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  User Deleted
12/23/13 8:53:11 PM#60

LOL- I hate "F2P" and generally think 90-95% of the "F2P" games are P2W.

I came here expecting to agree with the Op and express my opinion yet again on how this is ruining the hobby- Then I saw the payment model...

I know very little about this game nor do I intend to play it- But the payment model looks damn fair imho. I STILL prefer a straight sub based game but this isnt a bad way to go. One of the better payment models I have seen outside of a sub for everything.

I hate F2P but I also give credit where credit is due.

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