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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Will SWTOR last another year or two?

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93 posts found
  User Deleted
 
OP  11/26/13 6:06:37 AM#1

Ever since I quit SWTOR back in October and came to these forums, I was happy to have been met with mostly warm welcomes. I was very happy to reveal to you all how EAware's CT is heavily biased toward the apologists, and pretty much swiftly deals with anyone who criticizes a change or decision made to the game, or the game itself.

 

Now I'm wondering whether SWTOR can actually sustain itself for another year or two? I say this because subs have been dwindling heavily since release. As you all know, EAware was forced to go F2P, and did so in November of 2012. It's been a year now since F2P was implemented, but subscribers keep on falling. Sure, they'll spike up a bit near and during the release of an upcoming expac, only for them to plummet right after. It's very common for MMOs to lose many subscribers after a major expac.

 

SWTOR started out with around 1.7mil subscribers, and our last report of current subs was right after the release of Rise of the Coin Cartel, which put SWTOR at just under 500k subs, thus making it the 3rd most subscribed MMO in the western market. Subs may not be a good indicator for how much money SWTOR is making, but it sure is hell of a good indicator on how many people think the game is good for the long run. A 75%+ loss in subscribers since launch—that is NOT a good indicator whatsoever.

 

There are many reasons why SWTOR is losing subscribers at the rate it is, which include, but are not limited to:

  • The CT "attacks" critical posters while they "endorse" apologists, making them heavily biased.
  • Using a pre-alpha engine to develop the game.
  • Heavy focus on the CM for a quick buck.
  • Lack of endgame content (more PvP systems have been removed and some Operations weren't scaled).
 
There could be A LOT MORE I could add to that list, but I will not. When I was playing, my server was Prophecy of the Five. Before I quit, I noticed PvP pretty much died on there... on one of the biggest servers on SWTOR. It's pretty sad that EAware is killing off what's left of the dying player-base. SWTOR could have been a huge e-sports game, but alas, EAware uses their "metrics" instead of interacting with their forum community, when the latter knows what's best for the direction of PvP at this point in time, while the former does more harm to the game than it does good.
 
So do you think SWTOR will be able to be maintained for another year or two and then shutdown, or will it continue to live on and prosper and expand, improve and innovate?
 
I look forward to a mature discussion.
  huntersam

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/07
Posts: 147

11/26/13 6:16:43 AM#2

good luck on your last sentence .

 

personally I happen to enjoy swtor when I don't enjoy it I will cancel  sub same and all my other mmo's I played ,

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2089

11/26/13 6:27:07 AM#3
For f2p subs mean less than store income.
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18715

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/26/13 6:30:07 AM#4
Did you notice the upcoming expansion? Or EA recently announcing a 10 year deal for the IP?

Don't worry, this title well be around for many years to come, so if you enjoy it go play it, looks like you'll have plenty of company and content.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  altair4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 158

11/26/13 6:35:10 AM#5
They hardly seem to have any people working on it, so as long as they can get more money from cartel shop than it costs to put up things there and keep servers online I expect the game to be up for a few more years. If they had many people working on it that would be better to use to develop other games it would likely not be up more than another year, but since all those people seemingly have left already I think they will keep it running at least until new movies are out.
  DocBrody

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1378

11/26/13 6:37:31 AM#6

The cartel market gambling boxes will keep it alive until 2015.

Sadly there are enough people who can't control their spending and buy dozens and dozens of boxes to get a new shiny mount skin.

  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

11/26/13 7:06:02 AM#7
Originally posted by MrJurgens

Ever since I quit SWTOR back in October and came to these forums, I was happy to have been met with mostly warm welcomes. I was very happy to reveal to you all how EAware's CT is heavily biased toward the apologists, and pretty much swiftly deals with anyone who criticizes a change or decision made to the game, or the game itself.

 

Now I'm wondering whether SWTOR can actually sustain itself for another year or two? I say this because subs have been dwindling heavily since release. As you all know, EAware was forced to go F2P, and did so in November of 2012. It's been a year now since F2P was implemented, but subscribers keep on falling. Sure, they'll spike up a bit near and during the release of an upcoming expac, only for them to plummet right after. It's very common for MMOs to lose many subscribers after a major expac.

 

SWTOR started out with around 1.7mil subscribers, and our last report of current subs was right after the release of Rise of the Coin Cartel, which put SWTOR at just under 500k subs, thus making it the 3rd most subscribed MMO in the western market. Subs may not be a good indicator for how much money SWTOR is making, but it sure is hell of a good indicator on how many people think the game is good for the long run. A 75%+ loss in subscribers since launch—that is NOT a good indicator whatsoever.

 

There are many reasons why SWTOR is losing subscribers at the rate it is, which include, but are not limited to:

  • The CT "attacks" critical posters while they "endorse" apologists, making them heavily biased.
  • Using a pre-alpha engine to develop the game.
  • Heavy focus on the CM for a quick buck.
  • Lack of endgame content (more PvP systems have been removed and some Operations weren't scaled).
 
There could be A LOT MORE I could add to that list, but I will not. When I was playing, my server was Prophecy of the Five. Before I quit, I noticed PvP pretty much died on there... on one of the biggest servers on SWTOR. It's pretty sad that EAware is killing off what's left of the dying player-base. SWTOR could have been a huge e-sports game, but alas, EAware uses their "metrics" instead of interacting with their forum community, when the latter knows what's best for the direction of PvP at this point in time, while the former does more harm to the game than it does good.
 
So do you think SWTOR will be able to be maintained for another year or two and then shutdown, or will it continue to live on and prosper and expand, improve and innovate?
 
I look forward to a mature discussion.

It's Jurgens!11!!!

How you doing grumpy tusks?

/lick

Driz

  Incomparable

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 736

11/26/13 7:37:10 AM#8

This game will be around for a long while.

Its my only hopes that they do indeed start to include;

1. huge scale pvp with mounted combat,

2. mini games such as pazaak/swoop racing,

3. player created content for mini games and housing (similar to wild star), 

4. guild mechanics,

5. relook at class roles and not making healers imba and thus make balance more in the favor of 1vs1 for all,

6. day/night cyles,

7. npc routines,

8. faster traveling speeds with swoop racing they can make it the same for the open world

9. Rework gear grind to more about attaining unique items that offer different animations for abilities or different abilities all together rather than stat collection and gear grinds... thus reducing the gear grind and encouraging the completion of certain iconic quests which can have class/historical/world/galaxy stories in epic quest chains... similar to macro binoculars and seeker droid

10. At the same time make crafting more important, and still include companion system for crafting but their success is dependent on the location they are sent and how the area is doing depending on pve/pvp rules. Still include rares that are got from raids... how make raid rewards about getting things related to house decoration, and player creating content, and ofc rare resources.

11. Integrate with crafting caravans for the open world which can be part of the dynamic events in swtor tied in with crafting

12. less side quests and more dynamic quests, also as mentioned epic quests to get iconic gear instead of just CM to pay for items

13. Frequency with class stories

14. Events that shape the world, and creating a system that makes it coherent to follow and thus it creates a galaxy that is in a certain state of flux and based on certain on going events certain things happen which change certain aspects of the world with different areas looking different and even moving quest givers to different areas. So events become dynamic.

15. Make raids dynamic and different mazes

16. More landscaping and exploration

17. Fix draw distance of game to include a longer view

“Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  DocBrody

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1378

11/26/13 7:40:13 AM#9
Originally posted by Incomparable

This game will be around for a long while.

Its my only hopes that they do indeed start to include;

1. huge scale pvp with mounted combat,

2. mini games such as pazaak/swoop racing,

3. player created content for mini games and housing (similar to wild star), 

4. guild mechanics,

5. relook at class roles and not making healers imba and thus make balance more in the favor of 1vs1 for all,

6. day/night cyles,

7. npc routines,

8. faster traveling speeds with swoop racing they can make it the same for the open world

9. Rework gear grind to more about attaining unique items that offer different animations for abilities or different abilities all together rather than stat collection and gear grinds... thus reducing the gear grind and encouraging the completion of certain iconic quests which can have class/historical/world/galaxy stories in epic quest chains... similar to macro binoculars and seeker droid

10. At the same time make crafting more important, and still include companion system for crafting but their success is dependent on the location they are sent and how the area is doing depending on pve/pvp rules. Still include rares that are got from raids... how make raid rewards about getting things related to house decoration, and player creating content, and ofc rare resources.

11. Integrate with crafting caravans for the open world which can be part of the dynamic events in swtor tied in with crafting

12. less side quests and more dynamic quests, also as mentioned epic quests to get iconic gear instead of just CM to pay for items

13. Frequency with class stories

14. Events that shape the world, and creating a system that makes it coherent to follow and thus it creates a galaxy that is in a certain state of flux and based on certain on going events certain things happen which change certain aspects of the world with different areas looking different and even moving quest givers to different areas. So events become dynamic.

15. Make raids dynamic and different mazes

16. More landscaping and exploration

17. Fix draw distance of game to include a longer view

all been repeatedly requested by tons of (ex)subscribers since early beta 2011

what makes you think it's going to happen in 2014 and beyond?

  Frostvein

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 155

11/26/13 8:13:00 AM#10
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by Incomparable

This game will be around for a long while.

Its my only hopes that they do indeed start to include;

1. huge scale pvp with mounted combat,

2. mini games such as pazaak/swoop racing,

3. player created content for mini games and housing (similar to wild star), 

4. guild mechanics,

5. relook at class roles and not making healers imba and thus make balance more in the favor of 1vs1 for all,

6. day/night cyles,

7. npc routines,

8. faster traveling speeds with swoop racing they can make it the same for the open world

9. Rework gear grind to more about attaining unique items that offer different animations for abilities or different abilities all together rather than stat collection and gear grinds... thus reducing the gear grind and encouraging the completion of certain iconic quests which can have class/historical/world/galaxy stories in epic quest chains... similar to macro binoculars and seeker droid

10. At the same time make crafting more important, and still include companion system for crafting but their success is dependent on the location they are sent and how the area is doing depending on pve/pvp rules. Still include rares that are got from raids... how make raid rewards about getting things related to house decoration, and player creating content, and ofc rare resources.

11. Integrate with crafting caravans for the open world which can be part of the dynamic events in swtor tied in with crafting

12. less side quests and more dynamic quests, also as mentioned epic quests to get iconic gear instead of just CM to pay for items

13. Frequency with class stories

14. Events that shape the world, and creating a system that makes it coherent to follow and thus it creates a galaxy that is in a certain state of flux and based on certain on going events certain things happen which change certain aspects of the world with different areas looking different and even moving quest givers to different areas. So events become dynamic.

15. Make raids dynamic and different mazes

16. More landscaping and exploration

17. Fix draw distance of game to include a longer view

all been repeatedly requested by tons of (ex)subscribers since early beta 2011

what makes you think it's going to happen in 2014 and beyond?

 

Especially when they are doing really well with the "Buy crap from our store" model.

 

  Kicksave321

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

11/26/13 8:18:00 AM#11
Originally posted by MrJurgens
Originally posted by ImperialSun
Originally posted by MrJurgens

Ever since I quit SWTOR back in October and came to these forums, I was happy to have been met with mostly warm welcomes. I was very happy to reveal to you all how EAware's CT is heavily biased toward the apologists, and pretty much swiftly deals with anyone who criticizes a change or decision made to the game, or the game itself.

 

Now I'm wondering whether SWTOR can actually sustain itself for another year or two? I say this because subs have been dwindling heavily since release. As you all know, EAware was forced to go F2P, and did so in November of 2012. It's been a year now since F2P was implemented, but subscribers keep on falling. Sure, they'll spike up a bit near and during the release of an upcoming expac, only for them to plummet right after. It's very common for MMOs to lose many subscribers after a major expac.

 

SWTOR started out with around 1.7mil subscribers, and our last report of current subs was right after the release of Rise of the Coin Cartel, which put SWTOR at just under 500k subs, thus making it the 3rd most subscribed MMO in the western market. Subs may not be a good indicator for how much money SWTOR is making, but it sure is hell of a good indicator on how many people think the game is good for the long run. A 75%+ loss in subscribers since launch—that is NOT a good indicator whatsoever.

 

There are many reasons why SWTOR is losing subscribers at the rate it is, which include, but are not limited to:

  • The CT "attacks" critical posters while they "endorse" apologists, making them heavily biased.
  • Using a pre-alpha engine to develop the game.
  • Heavy focus on the CM for a quick buck.
  • Lack of endgame content (more PvP systems have been removed and some Operations weren't scaled).
 
There could be A LOT MORE I could add to that list, but I will not. When I was playing, my server was Prophecy of the Five. Before I quit, I noticed PvP pretty much died on there... on one of the biggest servers on SWTOR. It's pretty sad that EAware is killing off what's left of the dying player-base. SWTOR could have been a huge e-sports game, but alas, EAware uses their "metrics" instead of interacting with their forum community, when the latter knows what's best for the direction of PvP at this point in time, while the former does more harm to the game than it does good.
 
So do you think SWTOR will be able to be maintained for another year or two and then shutdown, or will it continue to live on and prosper and expand, improve and innovate?
 
I look forward to a mature discussion.

It's Jurgens!11!!!

How you doing grumpy tusks?

/lick

Driz

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

You should at least do some research buddy they just re-upped for another ten years,  they are making a profit, they have a million players playing each month.  I take it you never made it to end game?  There is tons to do dailies, pvp, fps, ops I'm sure you have never ran a hm ops, therefore never experienced a nightmare ops.  

  Demmi77

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/08
Posts: 208

11/26/13 8:25:45 AM#12
Originally posted by MrJurgens

Ever since I quit SWTOR back in October and came to these forums, I was happy to have been met with mostly warm welcomes. I was very happy to reveal to you all how EAware's CT is heavily biased toward the apologists, and pretty much swiftly deals with anyone who criticizes a change or decision made to the game, or the game itself.

 

Now I'm wondering whether SWTOR can actually sustain itself for another year or two? I say this because subs have been dwindling heavily since release. As you all know, EAware was forced to go F2P, and did so in November of 2012. It's been a year now since F2P was implemented, but subscribers keep on falling. Sure, they'll spike up a bit near and during the release of an upcoming expac, only for them to plummet right after. It's very common for MMOs to lose many subscribers after a major expac.

 

SWTOR started out with around 1.7mil subscribers, and our last report of current subs was right after the release of Rise of the Coin Cartel, which put SWTOR at just under 500k subs, thus making it the 3rd most subscribed MMO in the western market. Subs may not be a good indicator for how much money SWTOR is making, but it sure is hell of a good indicator on how many people think the game is good for the long run. A 75%+ loss in subscribers since launch—that is NOT a good indicator whatsoever.

 

There are many reasons why SWTOR is losing subscribers at the rate it is, which include, but are not limited to:

  • The CT "attacks" critical posters while they "endorse" apologists, making them heavily biased.
  • Using a pre-alpha engine to develop the game.
  • Heavy focus on the CM for a quick buck.
  • Lack of endgame content (more PvP systems have been removed and some Operations weren't scaled).
 
There could be A LOT MORE I could add to that list, but I will not. When I was playing, my server was Prophecy of the Five. Before I quit, I noticed PvP pretty much died on there... on one of the biggest servers on SWTOR. It's pretty sad that EAware is killing off what's left of the dying player-base. SWTOR could have been a huge e-sports game, but alas, EAware uses their "metrics" instead of interacting with their forum community, when the latter knows what's best for the direction of PvP at this point in time, while the former does more harm to the game than it does good.
 
So do you think SWTOR will be able to be maintained for another year or two and then shutdown, or will it continue to live on and prosper and expand, improve and innovate?
 
I look forward to a mature discussion.

I've been a pretty big hater , lover, hater of this game. I do not play it anymore (i do sub every now and then for a month just to level an alt ) . 

At launch the game had massive amounts of hype. The game opened up way to many servers because they weren't expecting the amount of people playing. After about 3 months or so, those people (myself included) who got to max level, realized it was just another raid/dungeon game. Population dropped hard and they were down to just a handful of servers.

That was the "rough" point. During this time, they increased server capacity and eventually went f2p. They are seeing an INCREASE in revenue + unique logins, NOT a decline in them. 

I do not know of any MMO (lol doesn't count, im talking gw2, wow, swtor type games) that have e-sports on a competitive level. The biggest one is wow arenas on twitch and it's still not an e-sport in terms of frequent tournaments that you would find at MLG. Expecting an MMO to hold a competitive pvp environment and promote it as an esport is kinda  weird to gripe at.

While I do agree with all the complaints from pretty much everyone and their mother, the game is basically a wow clone with light sabers that is missing 75% of the features in wow. The game itself is amazing on the first few playthroughs and extremely enjoyable for the story. It stops at max level, everyone knows that. I find the ui responsiveness, loading times and technical issues to slowly changing for the better. The rate at techinical improvements is really slow though. 

PvP is still bad, not because the classes or game is bad, but because the engine really hurts when there are more than 8 people doing anything on the same screen. I love the pvp in teh game, more than any other mmo but it's technically a piece of crap with no optimization options or macros or anything that would allow it be something worth investing time into.

I could go on with all it's flaws, but to answer your question; the game is here to stay, there are far worse games that have gone free to play and lived longer. I do hope they continue to release more non-ops/flashpoint content. GS is a good step, arenas, and hopefully next its all about customization. 

anyways my two cents.

  DocBrody

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1378

11/26/13 8:51:24 AM#13

One day, Disney will realize that SWTOR and its bad reputation is hurting the Star Wars IP more than they are earning money with it.

Frankly, that day can't come soon enough.

  st3v3b0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 124

11/26/13 9:04:26 AM#14
Originally posted by Kyleran
Did you notice the upcoming expansion? Or EA recently announcing a 10 year deal for the IP?

Don't worry, this title well be around for many years to come, so if you enjoy it go play it, looks like you'll have plenty of company and content.

 

The problem with the game is the F2P is TOO limiting.  Until they make it more player friendly it will continue to dwindle no matter how much content they add to the game.  

With regards to Kyleran's comments about the 10 year IP that is not specific for SWTOR as that was done well before the LucasArts - Disney merge.  I am sure there is a 10 year contract similar to SWG, but EA is not going to keep a game running if it is not making money.  Period.  They are the most notorious company for killing game servers including MMO's.

  WereLlama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 189

11/26/13 9:30:59 AM#15

I came back for a month recently in SWTOR and had a great time leveling up a new Bounty Hunter doing tons of Flashpoints and the class quest line.

Seeing groups coordinate some of the puzzles/boss attacks for the first time can be exciting and a little frustrating.

Unfortunately, there are no long term emergent gameplay mechanismsto be found, so it will only be short lived.

-WL

 

 

  NightHaveN

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 44

11/26/13 9:35:22 AM#16
Originally posted by st3v3b0

The problem with the game is the F2P is TOO limiting.  Until they make it more player friendly it will continue to dwindle no matter how much content they add to the game.  

And the irony that they discontinued the time cards when F2P was introduced as an "unlimited" game trial.  At the end is either credit card or F2P.  I was one of those that stopped paying because of that.

Right now you can't even use EA prepaid cards, or VISA/MC prepaid cars on this "EA" game.  It's getting to the point if EA really wants this game to sink.

Now I remembered a comment a friend gave me at the game's launch, after he saw me playing.  He tried to buy the game straight from the EA web store.  The store had placed a hold on  SWTOR digital purchases.  And my friend said.... That's weird, they don't want to sell more copies????   He had to go the next day to a GameSTOP because EA wasn't selling more digital copies... on a launch week... that was absurd.

 

 

  DocBrody

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1378

11/26/13 9:42:21 AM#17
[mod edit]

what kind of BS misinformation is this?

"they"..  "re-subbed" .. the licence? for ten years?

Yeah EA got a ten year deal for  Star Wars games with Disney. That does not affect SWTOR at all. It could shut down tomorrow, or in 2021 when their MMO licence runs out.

 

a million players per month, ha, not on my server

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1155

11/26/13 10:11:27 AM#18

1. The 10 year deal that EA have with Disney doesn't mean that SWTOR will last; however:

2. Is the game going to close however? Not according to Eric Jorgenson EA's CFO in the recent interview. What he actually said was that he hoped the new film would generate extra interest in the game. So by inference it will be around in Dec 2014.

3. Doesn't mean that much is going to happen. Whilst Eric also said it was "profitable" that was after slashing staff. Reminds me of what Marc Jacobs said about both WAR and DAoC a few years back; he essentially said the same thing - that they had adjusted the cost base to keep the games open. And WAR, as we know, has carried on with almost no updates and DAoC is still going with even fewer updates!

4. How much new stuff there will be? Probably not a great deal - but its a subjective question some people will look at what has been announced and say that is lots others will say it is trivial.

EA will be planning on sub based revenue declining and on f2p revenue declining. It might not but that is what they will be planning on because that is what happens as a game gets old. Not a SWTOR's specific thing it's just the way it is. New games come along, people's circumstances change. 

5. Maybe they could give people who purchase SW Battlegrounds a months free sub. Probably wishful thinking!

 

  dholliday

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/06
Posts: 7

11/26/13 10:37:27 AM#19

The only thing I can see really killing the game off is if they implement some sweeping changes to the game (ie: NGE), or if they decide to put out another Star Wars MMO.

 

Even SWG was profitable when it closed, partly due to the card pack items which were very similar to cartel packs.

 

I think SWTOR has a fair number of people playing the game who have accepted it for what it is, and enjoy it. The next expansion should give a good indication of the game's direction.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/26/13 10:43:35 AM#20


Originally posted by DocBrody
what kind of BS misinformation is this?

"they"..  "re-subbed" .. the licence? for ten years?

Yeah EA got a ten year deal for  Star Wars games with Disney. That does not affect SWTOR at all. It could shut down tomorrow, or in 2021 when their MMO licence runs out.

a million players per month, ha, not on my server




Well of course there aren't a million players on your server. They can't fit all of their players on one server. Duh.

According to Eric Musco, SWToR's community manager, there are something like ten million people occasionally playing, and one million people playing per month. There's no break down on how many are subscribers and how many are F2P.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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