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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Casual or Hardcore? [Poll]

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34 posts found
  GwapoJosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/12
Posts: 1009

11/23/13 6:08:42 PM#21
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Won't vote because I think the poll is stupid and poorly worded.

I agree with Picard.. I don't think I've ever seen such a terrible worded poll..

"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy

  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

11/23/13 6:18:48 PM#22
Originally posted by Joker1977

Working off of this post, I wanted to write a simple notice of a small fact many here seem to ignore:

 

Casual is not the opposite of Hardcore on the spectrum of gamers.

 

It is to me.  I guess the "fact" doesn't hold up when we don't agree on definitions.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5282

11/24/13 4:03:16 AM#23

What is the difference between someone being better at gaming or better at architectural design? You learnt to be better at gaming when you were a kid. That's why being better at gaming has an "I am better than you dudes" element.

If we only started gaming when we were 40 I doubt we would have this thread.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3492

11/24/13 4:17:27 AM#24

I was going to make a snarky post, but I deleted it.

This actually is a good post.

Good point, you've made me think.

I have to agree, Casual and Hardcore are not mutually exclusive. And when I get down to the poll, it's even more intriguing in that until recently, I had never classified myself as one or the other, and had a slightly negative connotation towards both. Hardcore people were always a bit too into the game, and casual people not into the game enough, and somehow, magically, I perfectly strode the line in-between and was neither (in my own mind).

Now, I usually call myself casual, but when I play, I like to play...

  Joker1977

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 43

 
OP  11/25/13 11:09:12 AM#25

I am a bit disappointed with how many people failed to understand that the poll isn't real, but merely a statement I made related to the original post.

I thought it was obvious. I mean, I literally only supplied 2 choices. One being "Both" which encompassed all options except the second, which is "There is no Spoon."

While I realize some people online (especially if they're new) can be pretty stupid, I am a bit amazed at how stupid people think others actually are. I mean, seriously? You really thought that my poll was meant to be unbiased and collect actual information? Even if I appear to you as a stupid individual, it is disappointing at how little faith in human intelligence you have, lol. Of course, it isn't surprising since I see posts all the time which are so biased that they paint casuals as some sort of fae-like sissy and hardcores as a Captain America like superhero. Still, I'm pretty sure people did not even read the OP or try to comprehend the subject when posting "This poll sucks!" As anyone who read the OP would realize the poll isn't meant to be biased. It's meant to be fake.

The Poll was designed to get you to think about how stupid labels and stereotypes are, by forcing you into only being able to choose a vague answer which encompasses both casual and hardcore. Because they aren't exclusive to one another. Even if you think so with all your heart, anyone could show you otherwise with a simple rational argument. Unless your definition of casual or hardcore encompasses a reality which supercedes the human psyche, into the realm of delusion. (Such as literally believing that casuals are some sort of millenial-entitled baby-adult welfare recipient who needs to [literally] be spoon fed accomplishments.)

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10888

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/25/13 11:22:52 AM#26


Originally posted by Joker1977
I am a bit disappointed with how many people failed to understand that the poll isn't real, but merely a statement I made related to the original post.

I thought it was obvious. I mean, I literally only supplied 2 choices. One being "Both" which encompassed all options except the second, which is "There is no Spoon."

While I realize some people online (especially if they're new) can be pretty stupid, I am a bit amazed at how stupid people think others actually are. I mean, seriously? You really thought that my poll was meant to be unbiased and collect actual information? Even if I appear to you as a stupid individual, it is disappointing at how little faith in human intelligence you have, lol. Of course, it isn't surprising since I see posts all the time which are so biased that they paint casuals as some sort of fae-like sissy and hardcores as a Captain America like superhero. Still, I'm pretty sure people did not even read the OP or try to comprehend the subject when posting "This poll sucks!" As anyone who read the OP would realize the poll isn't meant to be biased. It's meant to be fake.

The Poll was designed to get you to think about how stupid labels and stereotypes are, by forcing you into only being able to choose a vague answer which encompasses both casual and hardcore. Because they aren't exclusive to one another. Even if you think so with all your heart, anyone could show you otherwise with a simple rational argument. Unless your definition of casual or hardcore encompasses a reality which supercedes the human psyche, into the realm of delusion. (Such as literally believing that casuals are some sort of millenial-entitled baby-adult welfare recipient who needs to [literally] be spoon fed accomplishments.)




Calling people stupid isn't going to endear you to those people.

The point of polls is to get some sort of feedback or a response from the people who read your posts. It's entirely possible that they understood exactly what you're doing with the poll, and they thought it was a stupid way to use the poll, and so you got the responses you got.

Labels are a fundamental part of our language. They exist because they allow people to talk about things in the abstract. Most of the conversations on these forums would be impossible without some of those labels. Many conversations in general would be impossible without being able to talk about things in an abstract way.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Joker1977

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 43

 
OP  11/25/13 11:36:50 AM#27
Originally posted by lizardbones

 

Calling people stupid isn't going to endear you to those people.
 

Reading comprehension failure.

I never called anyone stupid. I specifically stated that it is myself who is viewed as being so stupid. That people think another human being (myself) is so stupid that the poll is a legitimate attempt on my part to get valid information.

Before jumping to conclusions, try to realize I'm not out to get you like most people on the internet. The only person the word 'stupid' was applied to was me. Such as "Wow, you guys must really think I'm stupid, lol!" Except in this context no one thinks I'm stupid. But it is obviously implied that a stranger (me) is stupid (typical of the internet). As opposed to giving strangers a little more faith in human intelligence and considering that the poll might not be a serious endeavor to get accurate information.

I'm pretty sure everyone here is smart enough to figure out the poll is not serious. However, for someone to figure that out, they have to actually contemplate "Wait, is this serious?" Anyone who read the OP would figure it out. I truly think everyone here is intelligent enough to figure things out themselves, so I believe the people who thought the poll was serious did not even read the OP or comprehend the topic at hand. Instead, they leaped to assume the internet stranger (poll creator) was stupid. I mean honestly, only a stupid person would write a poll like I did with serous intent on getting real information.

 

So in fact, I assume everyone here is intelligent. The opposite of calling people stupid. I believe nearly all people are intelligent enough to comprehend correctly, but don't always due to a lack of effort in actual communication. Communicate by definition, including taking the other person's perspective and trying to understand what they are saying. You know, instead of ignoring everything they say, automatically assuming they're wrong, stupid, and are a bad guy out for blood.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10888

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/25/13 12:14:21 PM#28


Originally posted by Joker1977

Originally posted by lizardbones   Calling people stupid isn't going to endear you to those people.  
Reading comprehension failure.

I never called anyone stupid. I specifically stated that it is myself who is viewed as being so stupid. That people think another human being (myself) is so stupid that the poll is a legitimate attempt on my part to get valid information.

Before jumping to conclusions, try to realize I'm not out to get you like most people on the internet. The only person the word 'stupid' was applied to was me. Such as "Wow, you guys must really think I'm stupid, lol!" Except in this context no one thinks I'm stupid. But it is obviously implied that a stranger (me) is stupid (typical of the internet). As opposed to giving strangers a little more faith in human intelligence and considering that the poll might not be a serious endeavor to get accurate information.

I'm pretty sure everyone here is smart enough to figure out the poll is not serious. However, for someone to figure that out, they have to actually contemplate "Wait, is this serious?" Anyone who read the OP would figure it out. I truly think everyone here is intelligent enough to figure things out themselves, so I believe the people who thought the poll was serious did not even read the OP or comprehend the topic at hand. Instead, they leaped to assume the internet stranger (poll creator) was stupid. I mean honestly, only a stupid person would write a poll like I did with serous intent on getting real information.

So in fact, I assume everyone here is intelligent. The opposite of calling people stupid. I believe nearly all people are intelligent enough to comprehend correctly, but don't always due to a lack of effort in actual communication. Communicate by definition, including taking the other person's perspective and trying to understand what they are saying. You know, instead of ignoring everything they say, automatically assuming they're wrong, stupid, and are a bad guy out for blood.




Oops. I must have skipped some words when reading your post. So, my apologies.

Anyway, on to an actual discussion.

We need words like "casual" and "hardcore". It allows us to put a lot of meaning behind a single word. Think about it. "Short" is a label too. Without the meaning encapsulated within the word short, we would have to say things like "my oldest daughter doesn't not take up as much space in the vertical direction as my youngest daughter".

That doesn't mean our arguments on these forums about what "casual" or what "hardcore" means necessarily makes sense. If someone uses the word "casual" in a sentence, the context of what they're saying will tell us if they mean that a game requires very little committed or very little consistent time investment, that the game is generally easy, or that the game is easy because it requires very little consistent time investment. I do think some of these discussions have merit though. If nothing else it prompts some people to look the words up and find out what the current official definition of the words is.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  User Deleted
11/25/13 2:15:24 PM#29
I think we have a culture now that fits the right age group, can socialize with that older group of players that broke ground, yet they are not really versed in gaming expectations, I think its that group that allows very poorly designed games to stay afloat. It's a group of self proclaimed hardcores that want to fit in, have done the research, but just don't have the old school expectations only gathered through years of experience.
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3296

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

11/25/13 10:01:36 PM#30


Originally posted by Joker1977
I am a bit disappointed with how many people failed to understand that the poll isn't real, but merely a statement I made related to the original post.

I thought it was obvious. I mean, I literally only supplied 2 choices. One being "Both" which encompassed all options except the second, which is "There is no Spoon."

While I realize some people online (especially if they're new) can be pretty stupid, I am a bit amazed at how stupid people think others actually are. I mean, seriously? You really thought that my poll was meant to be unbiased and collect actual information? Even if I appear to you as a stupid individual, it is disappointing at how little faith in human intelligence you have, lol. Of course, it isn't surprising since I see posts all the time which are so biased that they paint casuals as some sort of fae-like sissy and hardcores as a Captain America like superhero. Still, I'm pretty sure people did not even read the OP or try to comprehend the subject when posting "This poll sucks!" As anyone who read the OP would realize the poll isn't meant to be biased. It's meant to be fake.

The Poll was designed to get you to think about how stupid labels and stereotypes are, by forcing you into only being able to choose a vague answer which encompasses both casual and hardcore. Because they aren't exclusive to one another. Even if you think so with all your heart, anyone could show you otherwise with a simple rational argument. Unless your definition of casual or hardcore encompasses a reality which supercedes the human psyche, into the realm of delusion. (Such as literally believing that casuals are some sort of millenial-entitled baby-adult welfare recipient who needs to [literally] be spoon fed accomplishments.)



Why even have a poll then?

Your "joke" (I use the word loosely) fell flat. Don't blame the audience, blame the delivery method.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  GoldFire33

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 9

11/25/13 10:15:37 PM#31
I think it can also be argued that there is no such thing as a hardcore or casual game. It all depends on how one plays and perceives a game. WoW or CoD are often referred to as hardcore, while games like Farmville or Tetris are often referred to as casual. But I argue that there is no such designation, and it is just a fact that the majority of players play them in this way, but there are those out there that don't.
  crack_fox

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 402

11/26/13 2:09:24 AM#32

When it comes to being casual I can be pretty hardcore. I'll often play less than 1 hour a week. Other players think they're casual because they spend around 4-5 hours gaming a week, but those pussies aren't real casuals like me. I've clocked up less than 3 hours in MMOs since March. I'm so old school I'm pre-school. Back in my day, a sandbox was just a box with sand in it. You could play for hours and have nothing to show for it but an empty bucket, a wet patch and a stern look from mummy. Those were the days. 

  sunandshadow

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/13
Posts: 644

12/09/13 3:20:20 PM#33
I'm pretty self-consistent, but not like either stereotype of hardcore or casual. I like to be able to pour a lot of time into a game - 5+ hours on some days. I hate permadeath and death penalties, but I don't mind dying 20 times in a row to figure out a puzzle if there aren't any penalties. I like to collect crap and show off my extensive collection, and I'll put a lot of planning and time into breeding pets or mounts and building buildings and in-game art if that's possible, and more time and effort into completing all quests and conquering all dungeons. I like to solo difficult challenges intended for more people, especially if I get an achievement for doing so. But I see no point in PvP and get bored of it really quickly.
  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1365

12/09/13 6:48:32 PM#34
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

5) Hardcore players want to "win." At any cost.

Casual players, in my opinion, are the ones who look for fun in the games they play. Some hardcore players may find knowing all the minutiae workings of a game fun, but in reality that all leads to one thing: winning.

 

My experience stereotyping from these and other forums since I've never heard the terms hardcore and casual gamer anywhere offline:

- Yes, many hardcores want to win at any cost. 

- Many casuals also want to win at any cost but they want it to be easier to win. (a casual is often just a hardcore with less time to devote to one game).

 

Personally I like what someone said above about Dwarf Fortress. I try to be a patient gamer. I like a game that is both fun to play and throws a brick wall in my face and challenges me to get past it. I don't care how long it takes me to succeed (longer is actually better) and I really could care less about loot or looking cool or being better than someone else. 

 

That doesn't seem to fit perfectly in either mind set so I'm not sure what it "makes" me, "masochistic" gamer?:)

 

In any case I kind of wish the whole "casual vs. hardcore" thing would just die. It just seems to be a thing for people to divide themselves into meaningless groups and argue. At the end of the day we're all gamers.

 

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