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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Credibility

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102 posts found
  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 573

 
OP  11/20/13 10:14:10 PM#41
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem

Sounds like casual vs hardcore to me still.

If a player don't care about the game it might not be a good game in the first place so why should they? Again it's completely subjective.

It can go both ways, like looking at a gamer as someone who's an expert at that game, or an idiot who's attached to a computer game. 

Anyway it doesn't matter, cause mmorpg companies are driven and run by money, and rarely passion, unfortunately.

Anything can be subjective if you need it to be. Wasn't looking for a psychoanalysis. I laid out a fictitious scenario. I'm sure people are still capable of making a choice based on little information, yes? For the sake of discussion? Would you or any anyone have read some detailed wall of text? Just interested in which guy people would choose.

I agree with the passion part.

  Diodem

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 52

11/20/13 10:33:26 PM#42
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem

Sounds like casual vs hardcore to me still.

If a player don't care about the game it might not be a good game in the first place so why should they? Again it's completely subjective.

It can go both ways, like looking at a gamer as someone who's an expert at that game, or an idiot who's attached to a computer game. 

Anyway it doesn't matter, cause mmorpg companies are driven and run by money, and rarely passion, unfortunately.

Anything can be subjective if you need it to be. Wasn't looking for a psychoanalysis. I laid out a fictitious scenario. I'm sure people are still capable of making a choice based on little information, yes? For the sake of discussion? Would you or any anyone have read some detailed wall of text? Just interested in which guy people would choose.

I agree with the passion part.

Sorry but you can't convince me that some elitist spending lots of money and time on a game has more cred than a newb who plays casually for fun.

They both have the right to do what they like to do, they're both enjoying playing games, none of them should have a stronger voice than the other, although pracitcally it's probably the newb that drives the market.

The elitist is usually a better ganker/gear-equiped anyway so it evens out.

 

  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 573

 
OP  11/20/13 10:44:45 PM#43
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem

Sorry but you can't convince me that some elitist spending lots of money and time on a game has more cred than a newb who plays casually for fun.

They both have the right to do what they like to do, they're both enjoying playing games, none of them should have a stronger voice than the other, although pracitcally it's probably the newb that drives the market.

The elitist is usually a better ganker/gear-equiped anyway so it evens out.

 

Again, this is about hobbyist vs free entertainment seekers.

Making this about hardcore vs casual changes the dynamic of the discussion. I have a whole different opinion on that topic.

I don't see how a free entertainment seeker, who only has access to 1/3 of a games' content or what that game has to offer has equal credibility with someone that has experienced everything the game has to offer.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4714

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/20/13 11:00:00 PM#44
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem

Sorry but you can't convince me that some elitist spending lots of money and time on a game has more cred than a newb who plays casually for fun.

They both have the right to do what they like to do, they're both enjoying playing games, none of them should have a stronger voice than the other, although pracitcally it's probably the newb that drives the market.

The elitist is usually a better ganker/gear-equiped anyway so it evens out.

 

Again, this is about hobbyist vs free entertainment seekers.

Making this about hardcore vs casual changes the dynamic of the discussion. I have a whole different opinion on that topic.

I don't see how a free entertainment seeker, who only has access to 1/3 of a games' content or what that game has to offer has equal credibility with someone that has experienced everything the game has to offer.

They may not be able to comment more about that particular game.

However the question was about the genre and where it's going, and the free entertainment seeker arguably has played more games and is thus more familiar with the genre.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

11/20/13 11:32:45 PM#45
Originally posted by Loktofeit

And you don't realize at all how you're coming across right now? Seriously?

Identical to 4000 other posts a day?

  Slampig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2379

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

11/20/13 11:44:20 PM#46
Originally posted by NorseGod

One guy builds a computer specifically for an MMO and keeps his hardware updated. He spends money on MMOs and considers playing MMOs as a hobby. He has invested time and money. He has a sense of attachment to his character and wants to play it to its full potential.

Another guy owns a pre-built computer that he bought at Wal-mart eight years ago and never upgraded it because it "does the job". He casually hops from MMO to MMO every few weeks to play free content and considers playing MMOs are entertainment (like watching tv and movies). He doesn't really care about his character because he'll uninstall the game in a few weeks anyways because he HAS to find another MMO to play do to limitations set by F2P.

When discussing MMOs of the past and the direction MMOs should be heading, which player has more credibility?

 

*Update*

I noticed a few people focusing on the computer part of this scenario. To clarify, too many times have I read that a game sucks, later finding out that the game "sucks" because the game lags, graphics are bad, and freezes up. Then find out after further prodding that they have a 1999 P4 chip set and 2G RAM running Windows XP.

So yes, it matters what hardware a person has.

You lost me right there, what SHOULD be playing MMOs equal to? A job? Going to school? No thanks, already have that.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2151

11/21/13 12:31:45 AM#47
Originally posted by Foomerang

This is a gaming forum. Your credibility hinges on if you +1 my posts.

+2

 

i'm contrary that way.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3319

11/21/13 12:36:00 AM#48

I always thought credibility hinged on integrity, not preference or purchasing power.

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2151

11/21/13 12:38:50 AM#49

why are these arguments always so binary? its always one or the other. its like someone stopped taking personal reflection and moral decision making as part of life. instead they've stuck with what is basically a much younger and less nuanced form of argumentation and understanding.

 

whereas the adult typically understands that even in the most blatantly black/white arguments there are almost always some areas that cannot be completely pinned down.

 

and even saying you could narrow it all down to just one simple answer, who is that going to impact the most?

 

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2151

11/21/13 12:39:29 AM#50
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I always thought credibility hinged on integrity, not preference or purchasing power.

^this.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  BTrayaL

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/08
Posts: 559

11/21/13 12:49:42 AM#51
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by NorseGod

One guy builds a computer specifically for an MMO and keeps his hardware updated. He spends money on MMOs and considers playing MMOs as a hobby. He has invested time and money. He has a sense of attachment to his character and wants to play it to its full potential.

Another guy owns a pre-built computer that he bought at Wal-mart eight years ago and never upgraded it because it "does the job". He casually hops from MMO to MMO every few weeks to play free content and considers playing MMOs are entertainment (like watching tv and movies). He doesn't really care about his character because he'll uninstall the game in a few weeks anyways because he HAS to find another MMO to play do to limitations set by F2P.

When discussing MMOs of the past and the direction MMOs should be heading, which player has more credibility?

And you don't realize at all how you're coming across right now? Seriously?

Apparently he doesn't..

@NorseGod: When someone has to tell me that he has credibility, it is a sure sign that he doesn't.

I am one of the guys that has an old PC and struggles to play MMOs. Because I can't afford some monster PC, that doesn't make my voice shiver in your presence, mylord.

I admit that I don't care much for any title in the present, but that is not because there are plenty of amazing MMOs right now, and my PC can't handle them. It's because most MMOs in the present days are shiny crap built for awesome PCs such as yours.

With this post alone, you have lost credibility... your PC specs are quite irrelevant :)

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

11/21/13 1:04:49 AM#52

I'm a one person, one vote sort of person myself.  It's inevitable that he who pays most speaks loudest (at least when the accountants are listening), so I tend to be drawn to games that persue a business model that promotes equality between all players.

  IsilithTehroth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/05
Posts: 140

11/21/13 1:17:19 AM#53

Personally I feel causals should have no say in the mmorpg genre. The genre wasn't made for them, yet they managed to ruin the genre, despite intentionally or not.. I supoose this would include F2P,P2W cash shop gamers too since they move or less just want to "own" everyone through any unfair means nessarray and end of quitting later on because all the non cashshop players leave or they rather hop game to game rather than looking for a great game.

 

Currently casuals have the most sway instead of the core gamers that made the genre and it has ruined many franchises over the years such as Planetside. Really everyone should have a say, but my bitterness is reluctant to give those who helped create this dark age of mmorpg era.

MurderHerd

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3719

11/21/13 1:20:53 AM#54
Originally posted by NorseGod

One guy builds a computer specifically for an MMO and keeps his hardware updated. He spends money on MMOs and considers playing MMOs as a hobby. He has invested time and money. He has a sense of attachment to his character and wants to play it to its full potential.

Another guy owns a pre-built computer that he bought at Wal-mart eight years ago and never upgraded it because it "does the job". He casually hops from MMO to MMO every few weeks to play free content and considers playing MMOs are entertainment (like watching tv and movies). He doesn't really care about his character because he'll uninstall the game in a few weeks anyways because he HAS to find another MMO to play do to limitations set by F2P.

When discussing MMOs of the past and the direction MMOs should be heading, which player has more credibility?

The second player.  He's tried a wide variety of systems and games, and is extremely familiar with a huge breadth.  He also can accurately determine at what point a game makes him lose interest, and could probably, with some prodding, point out what a game could do to retain him.  He isn't obsessive about his computer, which probably means he has a well balanced life, going to the gym, having a family, doing a lot of things that makes him far more credible as a representative of your average consumer, the sort of everyman that it would be lovely to entice as part of your audience.  With his keenly critical eye honed by picking through games and finding what's good and bad and what can give him some quick entertainment, he will be able to lay out all sorts of useful information that will help you to build a stronger game.

The first player on the other hand appears to be borderline autistic, buying a computer and upgrading it for the sole purpose of playing an MMORPG.  He's got a sense of attachment to his character so strong that he will be incapable of rationally determining why he likes the game.  Even if the game turns out to be horrible, and has lost almost every customer, he'd still be there, with his fanatical devotion to the game he built his computer for, and that he revolves his whole life around.

This sort of customer is an incredibly niche market, and while it can keep some obscure game alive with a thousand of him, he's basically just some sort of life support for a dying game.  He's not indicative of other customers, and he has no real taste in games.  He plays something because he has formed a strong emotional attachment, probably due to having nothing resembling a life outside of his games.  Also, if his mother cuts him off from her credit card, you've pretty much lost him as an audience too, and that's completely out of his control.  Not a good market at all, and with no capability to explain why a game is good other than 'this game is the best and my life revolves around it', so you can't get useful information out of him anyway.

  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 573

 
OP  11/21/13 11:07:53 AM#55
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by NorseGod
 

The second player.  He's tried a wide variety of systems and games, and is extremely familiar with a huge breadth.  He also can accurately determine at what point a game makes him lose interest, and could probably, with some prodding, point out what a game could do to retain him.  He isn't obsessive about his computer, which probably means he has a well balanced life, going to the gym, having a family, doing a lot of things that makes him far more credible as a representative of your average consumer, the sort of everyman that it would be lovely to entice as part of your audience.  With his keenly critical eye honed by picking through games and finding what's good and bad and what can give him some quick entertainment, he will be able to lay out all sorts of useful information that will help you to build a stronger game.

The first player on the other hand appears to be borderline autistic, buying a computer and upgrading it for the sole purpose of playing an MMORPG.  He's got a sense of attachment to his character so strong that he will be incapable of rationally determining why he likes the game.  Even if the game turns out to be horrible, and has lost almost every customer, he'd still be there, with his fanatical devotion to the game he built his computer for, and that he revolves his whole life around.

This sort of customer is an incredibly niche market, and while it can keep some obscure game alive with a thousand of him, he's basically just some sort of life support for a dying game.  He's not indicative of other customers, and he has no real taste in games.  He plays something because he has formed a strong emotional attachment, probably due to having nothing resembling a life outside of his games.  Also, if his mother cuts him off from her credit card, you've pretty much lost him as an audience too, and that's completely out of his control.  Not a good market at all, and with no capability to explain why a game is good other than 'this game is the best and my life revolves around it', so you can't get useful information out of him anyway.

So the guy who only plays 6 days of the free 21 day trial in EVE has more cred than some who has been playing EVE for 7 years?

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1318

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

11/21/13 11:27:51 AM#56

This guy who gives a shit has more credibility. I.e., the guy who spends more time on a particular MMO rather than hopping carefree-like from game to game.

P L A N E T S I D E 1 is up !! check PS1 forum for link to current installer.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5081

11/21/13 11:49:25 AM#57
Originally posted by Arclan

This guy who gives a shit has more credibility. I.e., the guy who spends more time on a particular MMO rather than hopping carefree-like from game to game.

If your going to look at it from the game developers point of view, they probably would be interested to know why the 'floater' is going from game to game, if only to try and stop further players like that from just leaching off of them. People who float from game to game not contributing or even contemplating the possibility of paying for their use of a game, are just leeches, nobody actually wants them around, its not really a case of credibility, but of business.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 644

11/21/13 12:02:41 PM#58

This is one of the trick questions where your opinion doesn't actually matter.

If you choose the answer the OP doesn't like, he will question you. So in other words, there is only 1 choice. If you don't choose it, you are wrong.

 

The thing I don't like about this question in particular is we are only comparing 2 people. Even if you can answer this question, it hardly means anything at all. It doesn't prove anything, nor does it hold any value because it's a rigged question. We all know this, and it's why we don't answer it so simply. We know what you are trying to imply. We know the motive.

In other words we are not stupid. Course when I say We .. I mean myself ... as I don't know about everyone else.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11902

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/21/13 12:03:17 PM#59
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Diodem

Sounds like casual vs hardcore to me still.

If a player don't care about the game it might not be a good game in the first place so why should they? Again it's completely subjective.

It can go both ways, like looking at a gamer as someone who's an expert at that game, or an idiot who's attached to a computer game. 

Anyway it doesn't matter, cause mmorpg companies are driven and run by money, and rarely passion, unfortunately.

Anything can be subjective if you need it to be. Wasn't looking for a psychoanalysis. I laid out a fictitious scenario. I'm sure people are still capable of making a choice based on little information, yes? For the sake of discussion? Would you or any anyone have read some detailed wall of text? Just interested in which guy people would choose.

I agree with the passion part.

Sorry but you can't convince me that some elitist spending lots of money and time on a game has more cred than a newb who plays casually for fun.

They both have the right to do what they like to do, they're both enjoying playing games, none of them should have a stronger voice than the other, although pracitcally it's probably the newb that drives the market.

The elitist is usually a better ganker/gear-equiped anyway so it evens out.

In some ways, the second person is far more familiar with what is available and what they might want than the person with tunnel-vision based on the only game they've played in the genre. For example, which do you find a more credible source on what is available, popular, good, working, entertaining, of value, etc for ANY service - the consumer who has only ever tried one option or the consumer that has tried dozens of options?

 

But really... what Brabbit said above.

  Boneserino

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 642

11/21/13 12:10:30 PM#60
Its not the size of the computer..... its how you use it!

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

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