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General Discussion  » No more instant-gratification from blizzard?

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91 posts found
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

11/16/13 9:41:14 AM#21
I would really like to know how being able to use a flying mount right away is "instant gratification" in a game that requires you to do the same instances 100+ times in hopes to get a single piece of gear...the game is a grind fest.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  DonVadim

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/22/10
Posts: 42

11/16/13 9:42:33 AM#22
Originally posted by sportsfan

Imagine a typical quest: you need to find a treasure on top of a hill, but a tribe is camped around the hill with 2 wandering Eltes and countless mobs. In a non flying zone you need to adapt according to your class: pull mobs with a ranged class, go in steatlh mode and try not to agro or choose a small defined path to brute force as a warrior/paladin ...

In fly mode, you simply mount, land on the hill, take the treasure and fly away ...

Or you just put flying elites that defend the treasure from getting stolen by air. Sometimes good design requires a little bit more than ctrl + c, ctrl + v and several invisible walls.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2393

There... are... four... lights!

11/16/13 9:44:53 AM#23
Originally posted by DonVadim
Originally posted by sportsfan

Imagine a typical quest: you need to find a treasure on top of a hill, but a tribe is camped around the hill with 2 wandering Eltes and countless mobs. In a non flying zone you need to adapt according to your class: pull mobs with a ranged class, go in steatlh mode and try not to agro or choose a small defined path to brute force as a warrior/paladin ...

In fly mode, you simply mount, land on the hill, take the treasure and fly away ...

Or you just put flying elites that defend the treasure from getting stolen by air. Sometimes good design requires a little bit more than ctrl + c, ctrl + v and several invisible walls.

Or "flak cannons". They already have those in the game.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 772

 
OP  11/16/13 10:53:13 AM#24
Originally posted by jtcgs
I would really like to know how being able to use a flying mount right away is "instant gratification" in a game that requires you to do the same instances 100+ times in hopes to get a single piece of gear...the game is a grind fest.

well the point i was trying to make is that they are delaying flying.

and that you ahve to do a questline in order to unlock it again. just hitting 100 is not good enough. wich is a step towrds people working for a goal again. instant of the hand holding we are used to. still the quests will be retardidly easy but its a step imo in the right direction.

Blizzard want to remove flying completely but they can't. its too incorperated into the game and player backlash would be horible. Check the MMO-champion forums. there already is so much crying because it has been removed for a patch (3-4 months) instead of the 2 weeks needed to get too 100.

 

For people saying that the non flying people (me) are forcing the rest to the ground its not entirly true.

The pro-flying people keep telling us that we can choose to use your ground mount and that is false. Yes we could only use our groundmounts but, A human being works on efficiency we try to do everything in the fastest way often or easyst way. The path of least resistance. Flying mounts compared to ground mounts is too big off a diffrence in speed, you can just go straight accros a zone dont need to climb a mounting via a path etc. It's too big too say that we have a choise in using our groundmounts to do that.

  cheeseheads

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/15/11
Posts: 40

11/16/13 11:02:01 AM#25
blizzard will cave in at the end as usual.  as soon as the numbers drop cause of this they will give it back.  you guys wont admit it but its what always happens.
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

11/16/13 11:35:10 AM#26
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by jtcgs
I would really like to know how being able to use a flying mount right away is "instant gratification" in a game that requires you to do the same instances 100+ times in hopes to get a single piece of gear...the game is a grind fest.

well the point i was trying to make is that they are delaying flying.

and that you ahve to do a questline in order to unlock it again. just hitting 100 is not good enough. wich is a step towrds people working for a goal again. instant of the hand holding we are used to. still the quests will be retardidly easy but its a step imo in the right direction.

Blizzard want to remove flying completely but they can't. its too incorperated into the game and player backlash would be horible. Check the MMO-champion forums. there already is so much crying because it has been removed for a patch (3-4 months) instead of the 2 weeks needed to get too 100.

 

For people saying that the non flying people (me) are forcing the rest to the ground its not entirly true.

The pro-flying people keep telling us that we can choose to use your ground mount and that is false.

1. You didn't refute any of the points I made.

1.a How is flying at the start "instant gratification" when we already had to unlock it several times..and yet not locking ground mounts ISNT instant gratification?

2. The entire game is a grind fest, how is locking flying suddenly making it not?

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 772

 
OP  11/16/13 11:38:11 AM#27
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by jtcgs
I would really like to know how being able to use a flying mount right away is "instant gratification" in a game that requires you to do the same instances 100+ times in hopes to get a single piece of gear...the game is a grind fest.

well the point i was trying to make is that they are delaying flying.

and that you ahve to do a questline in order to unlock it again. just hitting 100 is not good enough. wich is a step towrds people working for a goal again. instant of the hand holding we are used to. still the quests will be retardidly easy but its a step imo in the right direction.

Blizzard want to remove flying completely but they can't. its too incorperated into the game and player backlash would be horible. Check the MMO-champion forums. there already is so much crying because it has been removed for a patch (3-4 months) instead of the 2 weeks needed to get too 100.

 

For people saying that the non flying people (me) are forcing the rest to the ground its not entirly true.

The pro-flying people keep telling us that we can choose to use your ground mount and that is false.

1. You didn't refute any of the points I made.

1.a How is flying at the start "instant gratification" when we already had to unlock it several times..and yet not locking ground mounts ISNT instant gratification?

2. The entire game is a grind fest, how is locking flying suddenly making it not?

try to read the first paragraph again... its in there...

  Krimzin

Elite Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 431

11/16/13 11:43:10 AM#28

It boils down to one thing and one thing only..."Choice".

If you don't like it, don't play it.

Period.

All the whining, crying, and complaining falls on deaf ears with Blizzard. They will continue to do as they always have.. whatever they want to.

Personally fly.. don't fly.. who cares. If the content is there it doesn't matter.

Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.


It's an Orange thing

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

11/16/13 11:57:10 AM#29
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by jtcgs
I would really like to know how being able to use a flying mount right away is "instant gratification" in a game that requires you to do the same instances 100+ times in hopes to get a single piece of gear...the game is a grind fest.

well the point i was trying to make is that they are delaying flying.

and that you ahve to do a questline in order to unlock it again. just hitting 100 is not good enough. wich is a step towrds people working for a goal again. instant of the hand holding we are used to. still the quests will be retardidly easy but its a step imo in the right direction.

Blizzard want to remove flying completely but they can't. its too incorperated into the game and player backlash would be horible. Check the MMO-champion forums. there already is so much crying because it has been removed for a patch (3-4 months) instead of the 2 weeks needed to get too 100.

 

For people saying that the non flying people (me) are forcing the rest to the ground its not entirly true.

The pro-flying people keep telling us that we can choose to use your ground mount and that is false.

1. You didn't refute any of the points I made.

1.a How is flying at the start "instant gratification" when we already had to unlock it several times..and yet not locking ground mounts ISNT instant gratification?

2. The entire game is a grind fest, how is locking flying suddenly making it not?

try to read the first paragraph again... its in there...

How is that a refute?

We had to unlock flying with WotLK...and it still does NOT say how having flying from the start is instant gratification in a GRIND GAME. You ALSO are ignoring how not locking ground mounts isn't somehow also instant gratification.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2649

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

11/16/13 12:19:27 PM#30

Well, something smart from blizz devs? Sorry, just feels like they are pretty... lets say 'durrr' at times with their choices. Pretty much though the blue post is EXACTLY why I feel flying mounts were a bad idea. They just trivialize the pacing and over-all end up undermining the design of the world. Sure, it was cool getting one in TBC, but in the end I could even tell how iffy they were at that point, and it only became worst as the game continued, having to have flying taken away in a rather 'forced' manor which always felt so silly despite knowing it was for the best.

 

Honestly though, I'd say don't read to much into them taking away 'instant-gratification'. So far blizzard has shown that its been their key business model for some time. Unless they come to some suddenly realization that they have been making bad choice after bad choice, its very unlikely they will change things much as they have that false belief that casuals will stay around if you give free 'wins' as I'd call it.

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 772

 
OP  11/16/13 12:23:33 PM#31
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by jtcgs
I would really like to know how being able to use a flying mount right away is "instant gratification" in a game that requires you to do the same instances 100+ times in hopes to get a single piece of gear...the game is a grind fest.

well the point i was trying to make is that they are delaying flying.

and that you ahve to do a questline in order to unlock it again. just hitting 100 is not good enough. wich is a step towrds people working for a goal again. instant of the hand holding we are used to. still the quests will be retardidly easy but its a step imo in the right direction.

Blizzard want to remove flying completely but they can't. its too incorperated into the game and player backlash would be horible. Check the MMO-champion forums. there already is so much crying because it has been removed for a patch (3-4 months) instead of the 2 weeks needed to get too 100.

 

For people saying that the non flying people (me) are forcing the rest to the ground its not entirly true.

The pro-flying people keep telling us that we can choose to use your ground mount and that is false.

1. You didn't refute any of the points I made.

1.a How is flying at the start "instant gratification" when we already had to unlock it several times..and yet not locking ground mounts ISNT instant gratification?

2. The entire game is a grind fest, how is locking flying suddenly making it not?

try to read the first paragraph again... its in there...

How is that a refute?

We had to unlock flying with WotLK...and it still does NOT say how having flying from the start is instant gratification in a GRIND GAME. You ALSO are ignoring how not locking ground mounts isn't somehow also instant gratification.

We had to ulock it how? by buying it? honestly your not reading what im typing at all.  the thing wich has been changed is that you need to do a specific long questline in order to unlock it now not just handing over some gold. wich means that you have to work abit to get it unlocked. workign for something is the opposite of instant-gratification.

its a very small step away from the hand holding but it is a step.

the issue here is flying who said anything about groundmounts?

I never said this makes the game less of a grind game. I'm saying that by this action blizzard took a small step away from holding evryone's hand.

My god learn to read please.

 

  Encephalitis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/13
Posts: 59

11/16/13 12:46:57 PM#32
Sooo...wait...Blizzard wants to keep people from flying so that they actually play the game as they had intended, and people are getting pissed because they can't just ignore almost all of the content and blast to 100 real quick? Ohh nooooo, you mean you have to PLAY the game? What a horrible tragedy.
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

11/16/13 12:47:04 PM#33
Originally posted by xeniar

We had to ulock it how? by buying it? honestly your not reading what im typing at all.  the thing wich has been changed is that you need to do a specific long questline in order to unlock it now not just handing over some gold. wich means that you have to work abit to get it unlocked. workign for something is the opposite of instant-gratification.

its a very small step away from the hand holding but it is a step.

the issue here is flying who said anything about groundmounts?

I never said this makes the game less of a grind game. I'm saying that by this action blizzard took a small step away from holding evryone's hand.

My god learn to read please.

 

Oh I am so sorry, I had no idea they implemented an instant gold function to where you log in after an expac and suddenly you have enough to buy flying again...I forgot that is something you don't have to work towards getting anymore...

Yeah...forgot about that bit didn't you?

You are just looking for things to bitch about...and again all while avoiding trying to explain how this doesn't also apply to ground mounts...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  expresso

Tipster

Joined: 3/10/10
Posts: 2066

11/16/13 12:48:57 PM#34

Flying in the game removes all mystery;

Think back to vanillia WoW we have the greymane wall, the AQ gates, Diremaul, Zul'gurub, caverns of time and more, all content we could not access but the mystery was there.  

A great example are the discs you get as a drop in uldaman (http://www.wowwiki.com/Discs_of_Norgannon) dungeon, they task you with traveling to Tanaras to a set of locked gates, you cannot get passed the gates but the discs tell a story and thus the mystery of what is behind is there in full colour.  You cannot do that in todays WoW and that's a great shame.

What if Flying was not in the game with WOTLK, image the cool server wide event they could have staged to progress the opening of icecrown, those 4 or 5 walls before the main citiedal imaging an AQ style server event to take down eacj of those gates with a massive world boss to defeat once the wall is down.

Why do you think they disabled flying in patch 5.2 or what the thunderking patch was, done cus the content was gated, it had to be have have good pacing and story, proof if ever needed that flying is a hindrance to the game and adds nothing.

I want it removed 100% from the game.

  lickm3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 121

11/16/13 12:57:51 PM#35


Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by LadyPvP I liked the game more when there was no flying.
Agreed

+1

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”? -Albert Einstein

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 772

 
OP  11/16/13 1:03:05 PM#36
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by xeniar

We had to ulock it how? by buying it? honestly your not reading what im typing at all.  the thing wich has been changed is that you need to do a specific long questline in order to unlock it now not just handing over some gold. wich means that you have to work abit to get it unlocked. workign for something is the opposite of instant-gratification.

its a very small step away from the hand holding but it is a step.

the issue here is flying who said anything about groundmounts?

I never said this makes the game less of a grind game. I'm saying that by this action blizzard took a small step away from holding evryone's hand.

My god learn to read please.

 

Oh I am so sorry, I had no idea they implemented an instant gold function to where you log in after an expac and suddenly you have enough to buy flying again...I forgot that is something you don't have to work towards getting anymore...

Yeah...forgot about that bit didn't you?

You are just looking for things to bitch about...and again all while avoiding trying to explain how this doesn't also apply to ground mounts...

oh you mean the gold stack wich you get from doing the quests on the new continent? And having exxes gold when u get to 100? Im sorry what was i working for again?

And about the ground mount thing please reread what ive posted before. it has nothing to do with instant gratification because nothing has changed for them. if you would need to unlock your groundmounts trough a questline asswell then that is another step towards less handholding and giving u some actual goals something to work towards.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

11/16/13 2:00:28 PM#37
Originally posted by xeniar

oh you mean the gold stack wich you get from doing the quests on the new continent? And having exxes gold when u get to 100? Im sorry what was i working for again?

And about the ground mount thing please reread what ive posted before. it has nothing to do with instant gratification because nothing has changed for them. if you would need to unlock your groundmounts trough a questline asswell then that is another step towards less handholding and giving u some actual goals something to work towards.

Oh wait, so having to do quests to get gold makes gold easy but somehow having to do quests to get flying means no more instant gratification.

 

Hypocrisy...exposed.

 

This is nothing more than a bitchfest. WoW is a grind, period.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 772

 
OP  11/16/13 2:29:38 PM#38
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by xeniar

oh you mean the gold stack wich you get from doing the quests on the new continent? And having exxes gold when u get to 100? Im sorry what was i working for again?

And about the ground mount thing please reread what ive posted before. it has nothing to do with instant gratification because nothing has changed for them. if you would need to unlock your groundmounts trough a questline asswell then that is another step towards less handholding and giving u some actual goals something to work towards.

Oh wait, so having to do quests to get gold makes gold easy but somehow having to do quests to get flying means no more instant gratification.

 

Hypocrisy...exposed.

 

This is nothing more than a bitchfest. WoW is a grind, period.

Now you are taking things out of perspective. you do those quests so you can level up to 100 in that timeperiod you get enough gold to buy the new flying. So your not doing quest to purchase flying your doing them to get to 100. thats a big diffrence.

Now when you get too 100 you can normally purchase your flyskill instead you now have to do more quests in order to unlock your flying. You have to actually do something now in order to unlock it.

apearantly your the only one here who fails to see what the entire blue post is saying.

What am i bitching about? i gave blizzard a compliment on taking a step in the right direction. your the one bitching about stuff.

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 772

 
OP  11/16/13 2:34:18 PM#39
Originally posted by expresso

Flying in the game removes all mystery;

Think back to vanillia WoW we have the greymane wall, the AQ gates, Diremaul, Zul'gurub, caverns of time and more, all content we could not access but the mystery was there.  

A great example are the discs you get as a drop in uldaman (http://www.wowwiki.com/Discs_of_Norgannon) dungeon, they task you with traveling to Tanaras to a set of locked gates, you cannot get passed the gates but the discs tell a story and thus the mystery of what is behind is there in full colour.  You cannot do that in todays WoW and that's a great shame.

What if Flying was not in the game with WOTLK, image the cool server wide event they could have staged to progress the opening of icecrown, those 4 or 5 walls before the main citiedal imaging an AQ style server event to take down eacj of those gates with a massive world boss to defeat once the wall is down.

Why do you think they disabled flying in patch 5.2 or what the thunderking patch was, done cus the content was gated, it had to be have have good pacing and story, proof if ever needed that flying is a hindrance to the game and adds nothing.

I want it removed 100% from the game.

Alot of people want flying removed. Blizzard even want flying removed. but i geus 50%ish of player are quite happy with flying. Because flying is nothing more then convienience while it takes alot more away from the game as you said.

I don't think blizzard will remove it entirely but it might depend on how patch 6.0-6.1 goes. who knows mabey people will like it and blizzard will act upon it.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

11/16/13 3:16:57 PM#40
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by jtcgs

Oh wait, so having to do quests to get gold makes gold easy but somehow having to do quests to get flying means no more instant gratification.

 

Hypocrisy...exposed.

 

This is nothing more than a bitchfest. WoW is a grind, period.

Now you are taking things out of perspective. you do those quests so you can level up to 100 in that timeperiod you get enough gold to buy the new flying. So your not doing quest to purchase flying your doing them to get to 100. thats a big diffrence.

Now when you get too 100 you can normally purchase your flyskill instead you now have to do more quests in order to unlock your flying. You have to actually do something now in order to unlock it.

apearantly your the only one here who fails to see what the entire blue post is saying.

What am i bitching about? i gave blizzard a compliment on taking a step in the right direction. your the one bitching about stuff.

Hypocrisy...exposed.

 

You place things into the context you must in order to lend weight to your argument which does not stand up to criticism. You must do quests for gold to get your flying and thus it isn't being handed to you...ground mounts however are, because you do not need to pay anything, do any quests or even go to a trainer to make it available. Its just there, because you trained it previously.

 

Hypocrisy...exposed.

 

BTW, apparently you don't get the point of my argument, hypocrisy. You only like it because it fits into your overall disliking of even having flying mounts in the game. Otherwise, you would be pushing for ground mounts to become locked as well as faction rep and everything else thus increasing the amount of grind in the game.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

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