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News & Features Discussion  » [Preview] Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft: Changes in Blizzard’s Deck of Cards

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35 posts found
  SBFord

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 12043

 
OP  11/13/13 6:32:08 PM#1

During Blizzcon, the Hearthstone team announced some significant changes and new additions for the popular TCG currently in beta testing. We'd like to share our take on the announcements so head on through the jump to check it out. When finished, chat about the article in the comments.

The breakdown from BlizzCon was pretty straight forward in terms of changes. Certain cards are being balanced out. The biggest one was Mind Control which can be found in the Priest deck. Mind Control allows you to take control of an enemy minion. It costs 8 mana currently. The main issue with this card is that once an opponent summons a “heavy hitter” minion, usually summoned in the later rounds, the Priest can take control of it. A smart player who can save The Coin card can do it on Turn 7. Once you get ahold of it your opponent is in trouble. Making this card a 10 mana cost is a very fair nerf for the game. Anyone who has played against Priests will agree wholeheartedly.

Read more of Garrett Fuller's Hearthstone: Changes in Blizzard’s Deck of Cards.


Bye-bye productivity at your day job!

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  Solar_Prophet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 422

11/14/13 2:30:56 PM#2
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

I would just like to thank everyone for their hard work. You've been instrumental in making Bioshock the success it is today. However, I'm a selfish ass and will be starting a new studio, so all but 15 of you are fired.

-Ken Levine

  Dewulf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 85

11/14/13 2:55:45 PM#3
why the hell did they nerf hunter, unleash the beast combo is one of the easiest to counter.
  Talrune

Elite Member

Joined: 10/19/03
Posts: 268

11/14/13 2:56:42 PM#4
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

Exactly from a person that has never cared for these type of games so why then cmment on a genre you could care less about?

 It is actually fun and as the article mentions you can put in a few minutes of play and walk away or play for a couple hours if you so chose to.

 

It is extremely fun in my opinion.

  garrett

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 6/30/09
Posts: 231

11/14/13 3:00:42 PM#5
Originally posted by Dewulf
why the hell did they nerf hunter, unleash the beast combo is one of the easiest to counter.

They found that Hunter was winning about 10% more games using Hounds. Also, Ben said they are changing it, not necessarily nerfing it. 

  urbanmech

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/06/04
Posts: 159

11/14/13 4:21:41 PM#6
Given WoW and how often classes change, I'm reluctant to spend anything on this in fear of having my cards nerfed.
  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 759

11/14/13 4:39:09 PM#7
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

An ignorant post from someone who has no clue about card games.  While I haven't played much of the newer card games that have sprung up over the years, but I have played Magic The Gathering extensively back in the 90's for a few years and luck has about zero luck.  The luck plays as much of a factor as in WoW PvP when you score some consecutive crits.  A fine tuned deck can demolish about any amateure.

Some decks will be effective against others, while not so much against others.

 
  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3717

11/14/13 4:43:03 PM#8
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

 

Wrong.  Player skill and knowledge plays a huge role in both deck building and actual play in CCGs.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  Arskaaa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 590

Your chararacter gains experience and levels up, defining a role playing game.

11/14/13 4:55:36 PM#9
Dont matter, i just gonna use 2 legendary when mind control get nerfed.
  mcrippins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/01/07
Posts: 878

11/14/13 5:03:54 PM#10
One correction that is minor, but kind of a big deal to me. This game is actually a CCG (collectible card game) instead of a TCG (Trading card game). Otherwise I would be very depressed about the gold legendary I disenchanted the other day.  =[
  Dakeru

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/21/09
Posts: 680

11/14/13 5:44:49 PM#11
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

Any real card game has a fair portion of luck in it. That's just part of the game.

Carté had to close down cause it was too strategic.

  itchmon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1419

11/14/13 6:10:36 PM#12
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

if the game is done well (and that's admittedly a big "if" and i can't answer for sure for hearthstone because i haven't gotten into the beta), there is not as much luck as you think involved in a CCG, at least for constructed and drafted decks.

 

there's a reason the same magic: the gathering players dominate the pro tour for years at a time (until someone else comes along with a new angle), and it's not because they're just that lucky, nor is it (anymore, at least; look up mike long) the case they cheat- the main events at MTG events are recorded from multiple angles and observed by more than one judge.

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

  redrip

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 145

http://www.youtube.com/tmripper

11/14/13 7:49:35 PM#13

Excellent read Garrett, we must DUEL SOON! :)

Best,

Ripper X

 
  Chivalry1978

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 193

Life is a game, just without a reset button

11/14/13 9:08:56 PM#14

This was not a very good post but just a rewording of what was said at blizzcon...

 

The change to Mind controll while needed is just garbage...there were so many better ways to do this.

Starving buzzard is another dumb change. SImply put with the current meta of the game Hunters are one of the weakest classes. The nerfing to Starving buzzard will in fact kill many possible plays...Snake trap starving buzzard. A 4 mana 2 card drop to draw 3 cards....Far less efficent and reliable then say healing ANY MINION FOR A CARD DRAW. 

Unleash the hounds needs a change, however the WHOLE DAMN class needs a change. As it stands Hunters are Pigeon holed to play one way to be any where near effective. The average OTK deck runs about 66% or better. Any other hunter build is around 33% or less.  The truth is Unleash the hounds is not the only way to do a OTK combo in this game. Warriors can do it with war song commander and Molten giant. Rogues can do the same things with leroy jenkins and shadow step with some cold blood. These combos require some decent cards. The hunter one requires cheaper cards thus ANY ONE CAN DO IT.

 

  Neherun

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/07
Posts: 169

11/14/13 10:39:14 PM#15
Originally posted by Arskaaa
Dont matter, i just gonna use 2 legendary when mind control get nerfed.

Because cards like Assassinate, Naturalize, Polymorph, Hex, Shadow words or other forms of insta-card removal do no longer exist in the game?

Well stated, hidden cry for doing something to the only card that turned any game around. At least abilities such as blood lust & Unleash the beasts require you to possess the table dominance, instead of using 1 card to actually gain the dominance.

 

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2391

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

11/14/13 11:23:58 PM#16
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

Deck Building and user input are a huge thing for many people like me.  In fact I think it is the #1 reason why I enjoy MMO's like Neverwinter, TSW or GW2 over the more traditional cookie cutter class archetypical classes with the same skills and access to all of them at one time with multiple hotbars.

 

Give me choice, even illusion of choice and allow me to pick what skills to use and you've got me hooked.  Same holds true in CCG's as well as MMO's.  I suppose it's not a streatch of the imagination to say I enjoy it more because I was playing competitive CCG's 10 years before I started MMO's.  SO when ever an MMO offers me this same freedom I usually latch onto it pretty long term!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2391

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

11/14/13 11:32:29 PM#17
Originally posted by Chivalry1978

This was not a very good post but just a rewording of what was said at blizzcon...

 

The change to Mind controll while needed is just garbage...there were so many better ways to do this.

Starving buzzard is another dumb change. SImply put with the current meta of the game Hunters are one of the weakest classes. The nerfing to Starving buzzard will in fact kill many possible plays...Snake trap starving buzzard. A 4 mana 2 card drop to draw 3 cards....Far less efficent and reliable then say healing ANY MINION FOR A CARD DRAW. 

Unleash the hounds needs a change, however the WHOLE DAMN class needs a change. As it stands Hunters are Pigeon holed to play one way to be any where near effective. The average OTK deck runs about 66% or better. Any other hunter build is around 33% or less.  The truth is Unleash the hounds is not the only way to do a OTK combo in this game. Warriors can do it with war song commander and Molten giant. Rogues can do the same things with leroy jenkins and shadow step with some cold blood. These combos require some decent cards. The hunter one requires cheaper cards thus ANY ONE CAN DO IT.

 

 

OTK decks are find but the issue with any combo based decks is that it needs to have a high probability of failure.  The Molton Giant, Miracle Rogue and other combo decks are just as effective when they "go off" but getting the card draw engine to "go off" should be the hardest part.  Starving buzzard is not only a piece of the combo but it is the card draw engine to allow it to prevail more often then not.  Same thing with the Old Miracle Rogue Deck. 

 

The way they nerfed starving buzzard will bare little change in the long run and I was one of those on the forums to proclaim as such.  What should of happened was nerfing the UNleash the Hounds by increasing the mana cost to at least 3 or 4.  This would allow the deck to still go off but at a much later stage then the average turn 7.

 

Mind Control should be scrapped and in it's place reintroduce Penance in it's place.  http://wiki.teamliquid.net/hearthstone/Penance

 

 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Solar_Prophet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 422

11/15/13 12:33:42 AM#18
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

An ignorant post from someone who has no clue about card games.  While I haven't played much of the newer card games that have sprung up over the years, but I have played Magic The Gathering extensively back in the 90's for a few years and luck has about zero luck.  The luck plays as much of a factor as in WoW PvP when you score some consecutive crits.  A fine tuned deck can demolish about any amateure.

Some decks will be effective against others, while not so much against others.

 

So you're saying that you've never lost a game because you got a few bad draws in a row? Yeah sorry, I'm calling bullshit on that one.

Did I say it took no skill to play or build a deck? No, I didn't. In fact I even acknowledged that skill plays a large part in minimizing the luck factor. However, minimizing isn't the same thing as eliminating, and for me it's incredibly frustrating to know there's a few good cards which would really help me out of a bad situation (which can be caused either by an opposing player's strategy, or a 'lucky draw' of several good cards in a row), only to be screwed because they were all shuffled to the bottom quarter of the deck.

Skill is a huge factor, but saying luck doesn't also play a fair part in a CCG is incredibly naive. Denying it doesn't make it untrue.

I'll add that, for the record, if I were to play a CCG it would probably be Hearthstone. It's definitely the best of the ones I've tried (MTG:O, Scrolls, Card Hunter [not a true CCG though] etc.)

I would just like to thank everyone for their hard work. You've been instrumental in making Bioshock the success it is today. However, I'm a selfish ass and will be starting a new studio, so all but 15 of you are fired.

-Ken Levine

  xTRIxEDGEx

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/07
Posts: 44

11/15/13 1:13:18 AM#19
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

An ignorant post from someone who has no clue about card games.  While I haven't played much of the newer card games that have sprung up over the years, but I have played Magic The Gathering extensively back in the 90's for a few years and luck has about zero luck.  The luck plays as much of a factor as in WoW PvP when you score some consecutive crits.  A fine tuned deck can demolish about any amateure.

Some decks will be effective against others, while not so much against others.

 

So you're saying that you've never lost a game because you got a few bad draws in a row? Yeah sorry, I'm calling bullshit on that one.

Did I say it took no skill to play or build a deck? No, I didn't. In fact I even acknowledged that skill plays a large part in minimizing the luck factor. However, minimizing isn't the same thing as eliminating, and for me it's incredibly frustrating to know there's a few good cards which would really help me out of a bad situation (which can be caused either by an opposing player's strategy, or a 'lucky draw' of several good cards in a row), only to be screwed because they were all shuffled to the bottom quarter of the deck.

Skill is a huge factor, but saying luck doesn't also play a fair part in a CCG is incredibly naive. Denying it doesn't make it untrue.

I'll add that, for the record, if I were to play a CCG it would probably be Hearthstone. It's definitely the best of the ones I've tried (MTG:O, Scrolls, Card Hunter [not a true CCG though] etc.)

 

MTG is about 75-80 percent skill and 20-25 luck. Skill is the deciding factor in most games, which is why you consistently see the same pro's top 8. If it wasent that would not be happening. You may lose a game or 2 to bad top decks. This is why all MTG tourney's do Bo3, and finals usually Bo5. Also adding onto this is that most tourney's no one goes undefeated.

 

So no, the game is not majority luck. A good skilled player will win a greater percentage of games on an even playing field. There are other things such as deck building, deck choice, and local/online meta's that also can effect your chance in any tourney. But a good deck choice with tweaks for the expected meta can be done by a skilled player to his/her advantage.

 

Schooled bruh.

  sketocafe

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/19/11
Posts: 457

11/15/13 1:57:45 AM#20
The idea of mmo style balancing in a ccg doesn't sit well with me at all. That it's Blizzard doing the balancing makes it worse.
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