Trending Games | Elder Scrolls Online | World of Warcraft | WildStar | Swordsman

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,736,978 Users Online:0
Games:714  Posts:6,176,023
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Trials of Ascension

Trials of Ascension 

General Discussion  » Reasons for Perma Death

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
32 posts found
  Codec_D

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 18

 
OP  11/10/13 7:59:43 PM#1

Below is a linked video Q&A with the developers of ToA starting off with "Why Perma-Death"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUbrRO8rA4M

  Choch

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 146

11/14/13 10:29:58 AM#2

If I had to give my own reasons why permadeath is key to this game, I would have to say 'immersion' and 'balance'.

With immersion, you're forced to be more aware of the world around you. You need to always check your surroundings so you don't accidentally attract something that might kill you or make you extremely vulnerable. You also rely on your surroundings so that you are better hidden and not able to be seen from far away. Because of these factors, you ultimately are more immersed in the world, you become more familiar with the scenery and the sounds that come with it. I think other games still do this without permadeath but I think it is permadeath itself that forces you to become even more immersed in a much greater way.

I find balance to be a big benefit of permadeath. Someone might ask "How does permadeath create balance?" which is a valid question which ultimately needs to be tested in the game of course but we aren't there yet. So to speculate, I would see balance a result of permadeath simply because of risk/reward and consequences. A group of people deciding to run around and grief people but they aren't invincible because there is the possibility of attracting a raknar or a group of them. Now they are vulnerable. Or perhaps several people decide to group up and get rid of them. Or someone in the grief-group dies, they respawn with nothing which means they need to run back to their corpse (assuming nobody looted it) and the group needs to protect the corpse until he gets back. So as we can see, griefers won't have it easy. There are many other factors that play into this as well, primarily the reputation system as well.

So this is why I think permadeath is something needed and something that makes the game even greater.

 

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2044

11/14/13 10:33:05 AM#3

Real permadeath and online just don't mix. Either the game is built such that you can kill your connection to avoid death or it is built such that any time your have an internet hiccup you have to start over. It is just too frustrating to most of the player base.

Some sort of modified permadeath works though I'd say that it isn't really permadeath at that point~.

  Choch

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 146

11/14/13 11:11:19 AM#4
Originally posted by Ender4

Real permadeath and online just don't mix. Either the game is built such that you can kill your connection to avoid death or it is built such that any time your have an internet hiccup you have to start over. It is just too frustrating to most of the player base.

Some sort of modified permadeath works though I'd say that it isn't really permadeath at that point~.

 

This has been taken into account with regards to permadeath which is why you have 100 lives and not just 1.

As for poor internet connection, disconnects, lag, etc - this is something outside of the control of the game. Yes , they can do some things but ultimately this boils down to the individual users ISP, internet speed, computer strength, etc.


Also keep in mind that this all needs testing. It is certainly possible that maybe 200 lives is more appropriate for the game or maybe just 50. All of this comes with testing.

  Codec_D

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 18

 
OP  11/14/13 2:16:15 PM#5
Originally posted by Ender4

Real permadeath and online just don't mix. Either the game is built such that you can kill your connection to avoid death or it is built such that any time your have an internet hiccup you have to start over. It is just too frustrating to most of the player base.

Some sort of modified permadeath works though I'd say that it isn't really permadeath at that point~.

I'm a little confused as to why you posted that, in the context of this thread it doesn't make sense?

 

did you listen to the video in op?

  Boneserino

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 639

11/14/13 2:20:06 PM#6

Why would gankers give a rats ass about dying?

They don't give a crap about consequences!   I swear half the people asking for these type of games live in LaLa land.

 

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  cheeseheads

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/15/11
Posts: 43

11/14/13 2:20:22 PM#7
i see kickstarter was taken down 4 days ago.  wonder why?
  Boneserino

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 639

11/14/13 2:29:10 PM#8
Originally posted by Codec_D
Originally posted by Boneserino

Why would gankers give a rats ass about dying?

They don't give a crap about consequences!   I swear half the people asking for these type of games live in LaLa land.

 

[mod edit]

LOL Codec why don't you tell us what you got from that little snippet that is supposed to be so worthwhile you had to make yet another permadeath post about it?

Cmon enlighten us all smart guy!

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Codec_D

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 18

 
OP  11/14/13 2:29:52 PM#9
Originally posted by cheeseheads
i see kickstarter was taken down 4 days ago.  wonder why?

It was taken down two weeks early for a different approach. If there were any reasons as to why it didn't become successful quickly, the main one would be poor PR.

  Ehliya

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/06
Posts: 174

11/14/13 2:41:30 PM#10
Originally posted by Boneserino

Why would gankers give a rats ass about dying?

They don't give a crap about consequences!   I swear half the people asking for these type of games live in LaLa land.

 

This opinion is based on...what?  Few if any games aim to do what TOA attempts.  You also need to look at permadeath as part of the larger picture of game systems.

A lot of negative reactions are based on experience with MMOs that have half-cocked PVP where you can run around with 100 sets of replacement armor in your bank and 317 scrolls of teleportation in your backpack.

Give up those old notions.  

 

 

  Boneserino

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 639

11/14/13 4:35:33 PM#11
Originally posted by Ehliya
Originally posted by Boneserino

Why would gankers give a rats ass about dying?

They don't give a crap about consequences!   I swear half the people asking for these type of games live in LaLa land.

 

This opinion is based on...what?  Few if any games aim to do what TOA attempts.  You also need to look at permadeath as part of the larger picture of game systems.

A lot of negative reactions are based on experience with MMOs that have half-cocked PVP where you can run around with 100 sets of replacement armor in your bank and 317 scrolls of teleportation in your backpack.

Give up those old notions.  

 

 

Its based on observations of human behaviour in games over a too long a period of time.  I have no problem with permadeath.  And I have no problem with Open PvP.  But if you put those two together in a game it is guaranteed recipe for disaster.

 

I am still waiting to hear what was said in that couch session that was so exciting, we had to make a post about it.  All I got from it is that somehow by dying permanently you have made your mark in the game?   How is that?  By having a permanent gravestone?

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Codec_D

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 18

 
OP  11/14/13 4:59:40 PM#12
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Codec_D
Originally posted by Boneserino

Why would gankers give a rats ass about dying?

They don't give a crap about consequences!   I swear half the people asking for these type of games live in LaLa land.

 

Not really the sharpest tool in the shed are ya

LOL Codec why don't you tell us what you got from that little snippet that is supposed to be so worthwhile you had to make yet another permadeath post about it?

Cmon enlighten us all smart guy!

TROLOLOL

Before I even get into the subject of Perma-death, I didn't see any other Perma-death thread's and considering I did see posts about people being turned off about the feature for reasons that I saw were actually addressed, so I put out an easy to source of info on the subject. This is my first post on the subject of perma-death, so I'll assume your "yet another" remark was poor communication skills on your part.

 

WELLL since you asked so kindly Mr. Boneserino, Bear with me and try to keep your attention span alive, yes, permadeath by its self is a horrible feature which probably has no place in 99% of MMO's currently.

Could you imagine that in Darkfall or Eve? However in Trials of Ascension, a game designed around perma-death, which by the way isn't even true perma-death so the brutalities of one and done that you're touching on don't exist, we have a modified version of this, the life counter. You Don't die instantly, but eventually if you consistently take the risk of death and fuck up a lot, you'll be finished and have to start anew. The benefit of that is a higher value on one's achievements and actions which brings about a whole other set of factors affecting player game play: high level players don't own the game but instead have even more to lose, farming potential is decreased due to overall risk increase, and blah blah blah it's great

But hey! that's not what you're talking about, gankers, those guys who love to fuck other people's days up, or clans trying to gain the edge, or whoever what have you people in general abusing the system either loading their characters up with enough to do some hurt or sending waves of loincloth meat shields. Welp, if they're really abusing the game mechanics, they'll get taken care of by say GM's like any game but that's a sad and lame fall back however it's there to fall back on. The game's design takes care of that, it's a phantom issue, meaning it doesn't actually exist. Hell there's a race one could play that are actually just gankers at their core, the Raknar.

You can sneak around at night, NPC guards, the reputation system, players banding together, naked players will die nigh instantly, resources are "finite", said ganker has their own perma-death, chance of  running into a ganker  more than once or to the point it becomes an issue is slim due to land size and lack of mini-map or in other words having to memorize a zone, P2P will limit how many grief gankers we'll have, reasons can go on and I've typed a bit, the point is your point is more of a hypochondriac's.

if you're not a pvper or don't like open pvp then this game might not be for you. Here's a nice, and pretty long, post regarding what i'm saying if you want another view point on perma-death.  http://trialsofascension.com/forum/threads/terrible-features-great-game.2123/

  furbans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 870

11/14/13 5:25:34 PM#13

Unless the game is P2P, the game is going to have a P2W cash shop as it needs revenue of some kind to sustain it.  Wizardry Online is one example.

Open World PvP is a niche group, and a permadeath is a niche of a niche group.  If it wants to be successful then it needs to be where one can relatively quickly raise to level cap and max out like in Path of Exile, that or allow a store item where they can reset their death counters or reduce it which pretty much defeats the purpose of a permadeath system.  I doubt this game will get the support it needs just because permadeath is so niche.  A risk vs reward system is the ideal system where one's character does not get deleted after X deaths.

Having only a little over 11% of the funding requested after over halfway speaks for itself, and PR has nothing to do with this abysmal response of backers.  Doubt their 2nd attempt will end much differently.

Permadeath simply does not mesh well with any MMOs that requires considerable time investment into a character.  Best of luck with their effort but doubt they will get the reception they want or need.

  Choch

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 146

11/14/13 5:47:36 PM#14
Originally posted by furbans

Unless the game is P2P, the game is going to have a P2W cash shop as it needs revenue of some kind to sustain it.  Wizardry Online is one example.

Open World PvP is a niche group, and a permadeath is a niche of a niche group.  If it wants to be successful then it needs to be where one can relatively quickly raise to level cap and max out like in Path of Exile, that or allow a store item where they can reset their death counters or reduce it which pretty much defeats the purpose of a permadeath system.  I doubt this game will get the support it needs just because permadeath is so niche.  A risk vs reward system is the ideal system where one's character does not get deleted after X deaths.

Having only a little over 11% of the funding requested after over halfway speaks for itself, and PR has nothing to do with this abysmal response of backers.  Doubt their 2nd attempt will end much differently.

Permadeath simply does not mesh well with any MMOs that requires considerable time investment into a character.  Best of luck with their effort but doubt they will get the reception they want or need.

I'm not sure how you arrived at "Open world PvP is a niche group". Nearly every game coming out in 2014 is featuring open world PvP, which includes big names like EQN, CU and TESO which I think makes your credibility very lacking.

As for its kickstarter cancellation - unless you were part of the kickstarter campaign or part of the community itself, you would know that the cancellation is ENTIRELY due to lack of PR. Someone like yourself looking at the situation from an OUTSIDE perspective with your own preconceived ideas of permadeath and the kickstarter progress, would have no idea.

Like what codec_d said, Permadeath alone is a terrible feature but combined with all of the other features that are in ToA, it becomes an incredible compliment.

  Codec_D

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 18

 
OP  11/14/13 5:53:41 PM#15
Originally posted by furbans

Unless the game is P2P, the game is going to have a P2W cash shop as it needs revenue of some kind to sustain it.  Wizardry Online is one example.

Open World PvP is a niche group, and a permadeath is a niche of a niche group.  If it wants to be successful then it needs to be where one can relatively quickly raise to level cap and max out like in Path of Exile, that or allow a store item where they can reset their death counters or reduce it which pretty much defeats the purpose of a permadeath system.  I doubt this game will get the support it needs just because permadeath is so niche.  A risk vs reward system is the ideal system where one's character does not get deleted after X deaths.

Having only a little over 11% of the funding requested after over halfway speaks for itself, and PR has nothing to do with this abysmal response of backers.  Doubt their 2nd attempt will end much differently.

Permadeath simply does not mesh well with any MMOs that requires considerable time investment into a character.  Best of luck with their effort but doubt they will get the reception they want or need.

The game IS planned to be P2P with systems similar to eve.

You're right, in a way. Any mmo that requires you to grind, or invest long boring amounts of time, in order to play that game with other's to the full extent would probably see the majority of it's players dislike a system in which they had to start over every time they messed up in PVP. Since the very nature of PVP always has a winner and a loser. 

Your rhetoric doesn't really fit in this context though. ToA was designed around PVP and perma-death and rather than state everything i said earlier to address that  I'll leave it there.

Your assumptions and insinuations about the 11% funding are pretty grandiose, I highly doubt you an expert on business or marketing effectiveness to be attempting statements like that. A significant amount of kickstarter and indiegogo projects have seen over half of their funding reached within the last week. Games that have vastly surpassed their goals had vastly different approaches to their PR campaigns. I for one didn't even know about the game until recently. I feel, without sitting down and doing the statistical work and formula predictions, that had FC reached a larger audience and effectively conveyed their product they could have easily reached their goal. They had more than a few high dollar investments, i don't think those were radical niche investors.

The fact I consistently see responses of uninformed people shows how FC does, in fact, need to work on their PR or people need to read more.

  Boneserino

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 639

11/15/13 2:00:58 AM#16
Originally posted by Codec_D
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Codec_D
Originally posted by Boneserino

Why would gankers give a rats ass about dying?

They don't give a crap about consequences!   I swear half the people asking for these type of games live in LaLa land.

 

Not really the sharpest tool in the shed are ya

LOL Codec why don't you tell us what you got from that little snippet that is supposed to be so worthwhile you had to make yet another permadeath post about it?

Cmon enlighten us all smart guy!

TROLOLOL

Before I even get into the subject of Perma-death, I didn't see any other Perma-death thread's and considering I did see posts about people being turned off about the feature for reasons that I saw were actually addressed, so I put out an easy to source of info on the subject. This is my first post on the subject of perma-death, so I'll assume your "yet another" remark was poor communication skills on your part.

 

WELLL since you asked so kindly Mr. Boneserino, Bear with me and try to keep your attention span alive, yes, permadeath by its self is a horrible feature which probably has no place in 99% of MMO's currently.

Could you imagine that in Darkfall or Eve? However in Trials of Ascension, a game designed around perma-death, which by the way isn't even true perma-death so the brutalities of one and done that you're touching on don't exist, we have a modified version of this, the life counter. You Don't die instantly, but eventually if you consistently take the risk of death and fuck up a lot, you'll be finished and have to start anew. The benefit of that is a higher value on one's achievements and actions which brings about a whole other set of factors affecting player game play: high level players don't own the game but instead have even more to lose, farming potential is decreased due to overall risk increase, and blah blah blah it's great

But hey! that's not what you're talking about, gankers, those guys who love to fuck other people's days up, or clans trying to gain the edge, or whoever what have you people in general abusing the system either loading their characters up with enough to do some hurt or sending waves of loincloth meat shields. Welp, if they're really abusing the game mechanics, they'll get taken care of by say GM's like any game but that's a sad and lame fall back however it's there to fall back on. The game's design takes care of that, it's a phantom issue, meaning it doesn't actually exist. Hell there's a race one could play that are actually just gankers at their core, the Raknar.

You can sneak around at night, NPC guards, the reputation system, players banding together, naked players will die nigh instantly, resources are "finite", said ganker has their own perma-death, chance of  running into a ganker  more than once or to the point it becomes an issue is slim due to land size and lack of mini-map or in other words having to memorize a zone, P2P will limit how many grief gankers we'll have, reasons can go on and I've typed a bit, the point is your point is more of a hypochondriac's.

if you're not a pvper or don't like open pvp then this game might not be for you. Here's a nice, and pretty long, post regarding what i'm saying if you want another view point on perma-death.  http://trialsofascension.com/forum/threads/terrible-features-great-game.2123/

Lets put the past behind us and get on with discussing the game then.   My apologies as I wasn't exactly sure where this thread was going as there seemed precious little info in your OP.  Also for some reason, the permadeath in this game I attributed to the game " Path of Exile".   Got my games mixed up but hey, I am not the sharpest as you mentioned.

 

My initial reaction to this idea was that it should not be called permadeath.   True the character dies, but its more of a real life death over time scenario.   I think its a great idea, but using the term permadeath gives it a pretty bad connotation.   Something like limited lifespan describes it better.   

 

As for the ganking aspect, I reviewed the flagging and reputation features.   Quite interesting.  At least that should take some of the randomness out of it,  as it creates more risk for the gankee.   However, as you PvP guys say , ganking is part of the game.

 

Trying to picture as to how I myself, a non PvP player would approach this game.   Certainly from a crafting aspect.   I realize that even still I would be required to PvP on occasion, and then the question becomes: Do I have a reasonable chance of survival?

Without a reasonable chance of lets say evading death, (not just defeating someone)  I would expect my life to be rather short in the game.   If the average player has a reasonable chance of surviving ( ie: fights last more than 5 seconds, evasive skills etc.)  then this game might have enough appeal to get some of the middle of the roaders who like sandboxes and maybe dabble in a bit of PvP, to get involved.   Because  unfortunately that is what these games need in these times.   Something with hardcore aspects that can still appeal to a broader audience.  That will bring in the $'s  and other companies might take notice.

 

Sorry I got off on the word permadeath,  but with regards to PR and this game, permadeath is word I would not be too hasty to throw around.   I see a lot to like here, and permadeath doesn't really apply to it in the way most assume.   A lot of good features are described.  Still remains to be seen if they can make the game tho.   Thnx for turning my head.  I want to keep an eye on this one.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3104

11/15/13 3:04:21 AM#17
Human nature (some humans) and perma death does not mix in any game where you accumulate achievements and rewards over time. Lets say I have stayed alive for 5 years and have several hours game play under me- if I die now I will quit. What's more the more I have lived the more the griefers want to kill me - just look at eve and the desire to get kill mails for rare ships etc for a precedent, and that's not even permadeath - you insure your core skills.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  Codec_D

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 18

 
OP  11/15/13 7:30:48 AM#18
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Human nature (some humans) and perma death does not mix in any game where you accumulate achievements and rewards over time. Lets say I have stayed alive for 5 years and have several hours game play under me- if I die now I will quit. What's more the more I have lived the more the griefers want to kill me - just look at eve and the desire to get kill mails for rare ships etc for a precedent, and that's not even permadeath - you insure your core skills.

Not everyone will be a winenr always, there are losers in this game. It isn't like peewee baseball where everyone gets a star. The death of a great character in ToA is part of the game, they become immortalized. The death's also give everything it's value, magic is op in this game but extremely hard to get, even more so with the life counter so it balances. Guilds no longer rule forever once they get to the top, constantly increasing numbers isn't the number one factor anymore. 

This isn't to say it cuts out the crafter, everywhere isn't a high chance of death. There is just now a bigger reward for those who risk it for the biscuit.

The point is losing is part the of the game, losing is fun. Making a new character is supposed to be a part of the game, unless you play in such a way that you live till old age.

  Codec_D

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 18

 
OP  11/15/13 7:37:46 AM#19
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Codec_D
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Codec_D
Originally posted by Boneserino

Why would gankers give a rats ass about dying?

They don't give a crap about consequences!   I swear half the people asking for these type of games live in LaLa land.

 

Not really the sharpest tool in the shed are ya

LOL Codec why don't you tell us what you got from that little snippet that is supposed to be so worthwhile you had to make yet another permadeath post about it?

Cmon enlighten us all smart guy!

TROLOLOL

Before I even get into the subject of Perma-death, I didn't see any other Perma-death thread's and considering I did see posts about people being turned off about the feature for reasons that I saw were actually addressed, so I put out an easy to source of info on the subject. This is my first post on the subject of perma-death, so I'll assume your "yet another" remark was poor communication skills on your part.

 

WELLL since you asked so kindly Mr. Boneserino, Bear with me and try to keep your attention span alive, yes, permadeath by its self is a horrible feature which probably has no place in 99% of MMO's currently.

Could you imagine that in Darkfall or Eve? However in Trials of Ascension, a game designed around perma-death, which by the way isn't even true perma-death so the brutalities of one and done that you're touching on don't exist, we have a modified version of this, the life counter. You Don't die instantly, but eventually if you consistently take the risk of death and fuck up a lot, you'll be finished and have to start anew. The benefit of that is a higher value on one's achievements and actions which brings about a whole other set of factors affecting player game play: high level players don't own the game but instead have even more to lose, farming potential is decreased due to overall risk increase, and blah blah blah it's great

But hey! that's not what you're talking about, gankers, those guys who love to fuck other people's days up, or clans trying to gain the edge, or whoever what have you people in general abusing the system either loading their characters up with enough to do some hurt or sending waves of loincloth meat shields. Welp, if they're really abusing the game mechanics, they'll get taken care of by say GM's like any game but that's a sad and lame fall back however it's there to fall back on. The game's design takes care of that, it's a phantom issue, meaning it doesn't actually exist. Hell there's a race one could play that are actually just gankers at their core, the Raknar.

You can sneak around at night, NPC guards, the reputation system, players banding together, naked players will die nigh instantly, resources are "finite", said ganker has their own perma-death, chance of  running into a ganker  more than once or to the point it becomes an issue is slim due to land size and lack of mini-map or in other words having to memorize a zone, P2P will limit how many grief gankers we'll have, reasons can go on and I've typed a bit, the point is your point is more of a hypochondriac's.

if you're not a pvper or don't like open pvp then this game might not be for you. Here's a nice, and pretty long, post regarding what i'm saying if you want another view point on perma-death.  http://trialsofascension.com/forum/threads/terrible-features-great-game.2123/

Lets put the past behind us and get on with discussing the game then.   My apologies as I wasn't exactly sure where this thread was going as there seemed precious little info in your OP.  Also for some reason, the permadeath in this game I attributed to the game " Path of Exile".   Got my games mixed up but hey, I am not the sharpest as you mentioned.

 

My initial reaction to this idea was that it should not be called permadeath.   True the character dies, but its more of a real life death over time scenario.   I think its a great idea, but using the term permadeath gives it a pretty bad connotation.   Something like limited lifespan describes it better.   

 

As for the ganking aspect, I reviewed the flagging and reputation features.   Quite interesting.  At least that should take some of the randomness out of it,  as it creates more risk for the gankee.   However, as you PvP guys say , ganking is part of the game.

 

Trying to picture as to how I myself, a non PvP player would approach this game.   Certainly from a crafting aspect.   I realize that even still I would be required to PvP on occasion, and then the question becomes: Do I have a reasonable chance of survival?

Without a reasonable chance of lets say evading death, (not just defeating someone)  I would expect my life to be rather short in the game.   If the average player has a reasonable chance of surviving ( ie: fights last more than 5 seconds, evasive skills etc.)  then this game might have enough appeal to get some of the middle of the roaders who like sandboxes and maybe dabble in a bit of PvP, to get involved.   Because  unfortunately that is what these games need in these times.   Something with hardcore aspects that can still appeal to a broader audience.  That will bring in the $'s  and other companies might take notice.

 

Sorry I got off on the word permadeath,  but with regards to PR and this game, permadeath is word I would not be too hasty to throw around.   I see a lot to like here, and permadeath doesn't really apply to it in the way most assume.   A lot of good features are described.  Still remains to be seen if they can make the game tho.   Thnx for turning my head.  I want to keep an eye on this one.

I apologize for the sharpest tool comment, I honestly didn't mean that as a direct insult. I was just being sarcastic, my attempts at humor at not the greatest ;)

I agree entirely with the name perma-death not accurately fitting the description. It's an ugly word and that doesn't really fit here. As for the ganking, yes that is apart of the game, seeking the kill is an aspect that'll probably be followed often. Griefing though, is inherently discouraged through the game mechanics.

Honestly for a crafter, the chance of risking pvp will be required at some point i believe. It's entirely possible though for a crafter to never experience anything but PVE, or even keep their belongings after their last death, clans holding onto things and the such. A character's skills are easily replaceable and if that becomes a burden then the game itself just isn't fun.

 

You are totally correct though in saying it remains to be seen if the game can even be made or if everything will work in practice.

  Params7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/18/09
Posts: 202

11/23/13 8:55:54 AM#20

Risk/Reward gameplay leads to higher, most satisfying gaming experience, at least for me. In games where there are no consequences for losing, victory does not feel like anything, which is the state of most themeparks today. EVE Online seems to be the only big, AAA-tier exception.

 

Hopefully ToA will be made someday too and we'll get our medieval high fantasy equivalent to Eve.

2 Pages 1 2 » Search