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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » Helm's Deep NDA lifted...

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74 posts found
  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 557

11/12/13 4:59:38 PM#41
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by BMBender
 

EDIT:

As far as BBattles that's just skirmish 3.0 from what I can see, some will like some won't.

I can't even begin to start pointing out the bad logic.

A. Most current games have a "feat" or "skill tree" to enhance their character. IT is a stepping stone for creating even more diverse character builds.

B. Players for over 7 years have been complaining about the slow and paint drying combat animations, it is nice to see a revamp, regardless the outcome.

C. Making "conclusions" is nothing more then erroneous opinion that has not facts or supportting arguments.

D. We will see, in a few weeks, and regardless the outcome, it is what it is.

I wish I had all day to reply to all this bad logic in this posts , but I will have to pick and choose what to reply too lol...

 

A. yup they do and guess what, they are all contracting in player base as well

B this does nothing to speed up combat on the chars I tested, just fewer key presses 12 12 12  13 43

C beta 1-6

D yup

  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 557

11/12/13 5:03:03 PM#42
Originally posted by maxima29

 

 

I always shake my head at posters like this also . It's clear he has no clue what he is talking about.  Maintenance mode?  Yeah ok keep telling yourself that.  You should have left your edit out cause they are clearly not skirmishes 3.0 and if they were well usually when you have something upgrade it's number it better and improved so either way they are a good thing. If you were in beta or even payed attention you would know a lot of people were impressed with the big battles.  They are big, challenging, and a lot of fun.  

I wish poster that post misinformation on any game would go into maintenance mode. 

 

  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 557

11/12/13 5:06:14 PM#43
Originally posted by BMBender
Originally posted by maxima29

 

 

I always shake my head at posters like this also . It's clear he has no clue what he is talking about.  Maintenance mode?  Yeah ok keep telling yourself that.  You should have left your edit out cause they are clearly not skirmishes 3.0 and if they were well usually when you have something upgrade it's number it better and improved so either way they are a good thing. If you were in beta or even payed attention you would know a lot of people were impressed with the big battles.  They are big, challenging, and a lot of fun.  

I wish poster that post misinformation on any game would go into maintenance mode. 

 

Scripting on this site is wonky again, sorry for the dbl post

Posted exactly what I saw in beta, don't agree? put up a counter point and back it up otherwise /shrugs

 

EDIT would you have preferred if I had said. a relatively scripted fight where most of ones time is spent clicking ladders, hooks NPC's ect?  Or a poor mans RTS?  Or that some maps/battles can be afk'd without loss or death?(admittedly the rewards suck that way)

I was actually being nice, an  updated skirmish system would have been an improvement imho.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2034

11/13/13 4:12:38 AM#44

While not tight-knitted to the NDA lifting, it worths noting that Turbine shared the score of HD. It's really good, a bit weaker than the previous ones (imo of course, music is always subjective), maybe because of the composer change.

When I first saw the track title Mighty Chance I was a bit clueless, he was always a modest fella... but then they said it's not his work. Probably it's a hommage to Thomas  -  wait... or maybe it's just a track about chances :)

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

11/13/13 11:19:23 AM#45

Can't even believe I used to post like these people. So erroneous and lacking any specific detail.

Be specific, bring the facts to support these opinions.


For the most part, I can see that because like every other game about to release an expansion or update, the woodwork starts to crawl with the jaded.


I'll be he reading , waiting for something to posted of substance.


Oh, can you guys post your warsteed pictures ? I'm curious how yours look ! :D

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5785

11/13/13 12:52:15 PM#46

All that matters to me is how I feel about it.

Big Battles sound fine. The problem is that, like nearly every other system Turbine introduces, they let it languish after introduction and introduce something new they can monetize that is disconnected from their other systems.

Hobbies - so much potential yet it was left to atrophe.

LIs - this got more attention, but still sort of patched and finally after 2 years called "baked".

Skirms - this was going to be huge, yet the number of skirms added since introduction has been so very few and far between. The amount of pointless churn to accomplish something through this system is incredible. Big battles will end up the same way. Another currency and achievement system that is totally disconnected from any other game system or reward path.

Turbine has a great world building team. The environments are beautiful and the sound is nice. While the character models and animations are poor, they wouldn't really be a deal breaker, but... The entire game itself feels disjointed. Turbine's design problem is that they haven't made a cohesive entity. The game feels like it doesn't have a central driving design force. On top of that how the Paiz couple have chosen to monetize the game and influence design in light of that is simply sickening. I really do blame them heavily for the current state of the game.

When you look at it outside the view of someone who will play in Middle-earth no matter what, you see a game dev studio that has consistently under delivered, historically over promised, and been less than forthcoming with their marketing claims.

So to put that into light, as someone who was there from beta (blah blah blah), my lore-master isn't the same. Turbine has shutdown the epic line outside of xpac purchases. I have very little confidence in Turbine, based on years of experience with just giving them a chance and "trying it out first", that they will deliver an experience worth taking my time to invest in. When I compare my game experience in LotRO to EQ2 it is like night to day.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

11/13/13 9:26:16 PM#47

 


Originally posted by Torvaldr The entire game itself feels disjointed. Turbine's design problem is that they haven't made a cohesive entity. The game feels like it doesn't have a central driving design force. On top of that how the Paiz couple have chosen to monetize the game and influence design in light of that is simply sickening. I really do blame them heavily for the current state of the game.
I'm curious if yuou

 

can give an exact example of what you are talking about instead of erroneous paragraph that doesn't have a single supportive argument other then your own opinion...

I've seen this to often with many games , where it is a wall of yext of nothing but fallacies and unsupported claims.

The game is the cohesiveness, it is "LORD OF THE RINGS"...LOL for real,

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5785

11/14/13 12:17:04 AM#48
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

 


Originally posted by Torvaldr The entire game itself feels disjointed. Turbine's design problem is that they haven't made a cohesive entity. The game feels like it doesn't have a central driving design force. On top of that how the Paiz couple have chosen to monetize the game and influence design in light of that is simply sickening. I really do blame them heavily for the current state of the game.
I'm curious if yuou

can give an exact example of what you are talking about instead of erroneous paragraph that doesn't have a single supportive argument other then your own opinion...

I've seen this to often with many games , where it is a wall of yext of nothing but fallacies and unsupported claims.

The game is the cohesiveness, it is "LORD OF THE RINGS"...LOL for real,

Look I don't really care what you think. Like I said, the only thing that matters to me is how I feel about the class and epic changes. My post is for people who actually want to have a discussion not whiteknights who think they're proving a point that no one else really cares about.

I will say this to clarify. The design pattern, flow, and approach between each major expansion isn't very cohesive. Each expansion region is mostly well designed, but when put together as a whole their play and feel don't flow well. You have one style of content approach in SoA, another in Moria, another in RoR, etc. That is all.

Curse you AquaScum!

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5566

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

11/14/13 12:24:20 AM#49
will the new skill system be a general update or only people who own Helms Deep will see the new skill system? The classes and their skills is the only reason i cant play Lotro. I would like to try the new skill system but im not purchasing an expansion just to try that out.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5785

11/14/13 12:29:23 AM#50
Originally posted by rojo6934
will the new skill system be a general update or only people who own Helms Deep will see the new skill system? The classes and their skills is the only reason i cant play Lotro. I would like to try the new skill system but im not purchasing an expansion just to try that out.

It's a complete game change. Combat revamps have historically always been part of the entire game update.

The Epic on the other hand is tied to the xpac this time.

Curse you AquaScum!

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5566

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

11/14/13 12:35:15 AM#51
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by rojo6934
will the new skill system be a general update or only people who own Helms Deep will see the new skill system? The classes and their skills is the only reason i cant play Lotro. I would like to try the new skill system but im not purchasing an expansion just to try that out.

It's a complete game change. Combat revamps have historically always been part of the entire game update.

The Epic on the other hand is tied to the xpac this time.

im very interested in that combat revamp. This could be what makes me play Lotro.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Lithuanian

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/17/06
Posts: 175

11/14/13 5:57:07 AM#52

When I start to think about Trait Trees (TT) - I understand that I am totally lost. They are over-complicated and no clear explanation given.

Example: I have 8 trait slots and only 3 are unlocked. What if I unlock rest 5 for ~500 Turbine points before Helm's Deep? Will I get some points for such thing? Anything? Somebody told me I would get "slots, but not points". What could that mean? What slots, if I would be given 1 tree for free (I'm f2p). What about virtues of different values, like Courage 1 and Discipilne 15 - will these be equal in TT system?

Is there any sense in, say,  purchasing Legendary/class trait slots (especially when they are on discount)? Or it would be just a waste of valuable TPs?

What about housing chests? They told players could upgrade for big amounts of gold and later - for Mithril coins only. But I have a house, so how could I upgrade or just would have to re-purchase? Would housing maintenance prices change?

More questions that answers and no clear answers in the official forums :(

http://www.mmoblogg.wordpress.com

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2034

11/14/13 6:16:18 AM#53
Originally posted by Lithuanian

When I start to think about Trait Trees (TT) - I understand that I am totally lost. They are over-complicated and no clear explanation given.

Example: I have 8 trait slots and only 3 are unlocked.

You shouldn't feel lost, it will be straightforward as a highway, no complication and no brainwork needed (sadly...)

Or maybe... I mean 8 slots? :) You have only 7 :) (sorry, I couldn't miss that)

If you unlock the rest of them, it will stay open after 18th as well. I'm not on the beta so I can't say the prices after HD. Maybe it will be cheaper, but I highly doubt it. You'll get all 3 trees for free, and 2 slots to save your tree setup (with option to purchase additional slots via mithril coin)

Racial traits and Virtues won't change this time.

Legendaries, it's an issue indeed. There won't be a separate legendary slot after HD, so the previously purchased slots are a waste (if I got that correctly).

Housing chests, as an earlier forum post stated it's advisable to purchase your chests before 18th with gold.

edit: missed the last one, you can't upgrade a house, if you want a bigger one you have to leave the current one and buy a bigger one (you can have only 1 house at a time, and a kin house if you're the kin leader). Small house has 1 chest, big has 2, and kinship house has 3.

 

edit2: also worth noting, since you're on f2p: the class trait deeds will be gone as well, so no more easy TP's from them... Turbine just got rid of 9x24 (+the legendaries) options of earning free TP. The cheap bastards :) 

(ok, I only added it for the lolz, but I heard it from a devoted TP-farming f2p player, and while it's hilarious, it's a also valid side-effect of the HD change)

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

11/14/13 9:04:56 AM#54
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by Lithuanian

When I start to think about Trait Trees (TT) - I understand that I am totally lost. They are over-complicated and no clear explanation given.

Example: I have 8 trait slots and only 3 are unlocked.

You shouldn't feel lost, it will be straightforward as a highway, no complication and no brainwork needed (sadly...)

Or maybe... I mean 8 slots? :) You have only 7 :) (sorry, I couldn't miss that)

If you unlock the rest of them, it will stay open after 18th as well. I'm not on the beta so I can't say the prices after HD. Maybe it will be cheaper, but I highly doubt it. You'll get all 3 trees for free, and 2 slots to save your tree setup (with option to purchase additional slots via mithril coin)

Racial traits and Virtues won't change this time.

Legendaries, it's an issue indeed. There won't be a separate legendary slot after HD, so the previously purchased slots are a waste (if I got that correctly).

Housing chests, as an earlier forum post stated it's advisable to purchase your chests before 18th with gold.

edit: missed the last one, you can't upgrade a house, if you want a bigger one you have to leave the current one and buy a bigger one (you can have only 1 house at a time, and a kin house if you're the kin leader). Small house has 1 chest, big has 2, and kinship house has 3.

 

edit2: also worth noting, since you're on f2p: the class trait deeds will be gone as well, so no more easy TP's from them... Turbine just got rid of 9x24 (+the legendaries) options of earning free TP. The cheap bastards :) 

(ok, I only added it for the lolz, but I heard it from a devoted TP-farming f2p player, and while it's hilarious, it's a also valid side-effect of the HD change)

They actually need to refund all that TP spend on this..

 

If they remove something from the game that i purchased, i want my money back. I dont think anyone at Turbine tought about this. But if they take the slots out of the game (and they will) they need to refund the TP people spend on this.. giving something different in its place does not work...

 

I am very interested how this will be handled.  

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2034

11/14/13 10:07:12 AM#55

I don't think Turbine will refund anything, it'd be highly unlikely from them :)

But it affects only the legendary traits, virtues and racial traits will be the same, and your 7 class trait slots will replaced by the 7 trait tree bonuses you'll get as you go deeper into a given tree. So any purchased class trait slots will transferred to unlocked tree bonus slots (or at least that's what I've heard, since I know nobody who's in beta with a f2p account...)

 

The 3 legendary slots of today, that's the big question, since they don't have a place in the new system. Or maybe there is, since there were posts that the 7 new trait bonus slot in the new system are not equal the 7 class trait slots, it's actually from 5class+2legendary. I'm not sure if it's the case. If it's true, then it means f2p players won't have any trait bonus slots at the start :)

(presently f2p's have 2 class and 1 legendary for free, and have to purchase 5 class and 2 legendary for full access. If the trait bonus slots really are coming from those 5+2 slots, then Turbine won't have to refund anything, and your previous purchases are delivered to the new system one by one. And with it, the f2p players won't have any, their 3 free slots will be the ones that gets removed. Lol)

 

Edit: it'd be nice to know for certain, since trait slots are now on a 25% sale. If the 7 bonus slots are from the 7 class slots, then buying legendary slots now is a waste of purchase. If the 5+2 setup is the correct one, then it's a good time to unlock those 5 class and 2 legendary slots with 25% less. Sadly I red this 5+2 only on a post, and not in an official statement...

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

11/14/13 2:36:31 PM#56
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

I will say this to clarify. The design pattern, flow, and approach between each major expansion isn't very cohesive. Each expansion region is mostly well designed, but when put together as a whole their play and feel don't flow well. You have one style of content approach in SoA, another in Moria, another in RoR, etc. That is all.

I will disagree with this. I found the content flow to be very well done. Being able to ride from Bree to the opening quests for Moria, is pretty epic and very good flow. Once in Moria, well, It;s Moria, you go in one end and come out the other into the Golden Woods, but before you can entter the woods you need to earn the trust of the Elves.

 

After the Woods you head to Mirkwood's , which is an amzing zone to play through in dx11.

 

Why people keep saying the Linear road of the original game is good is beyond me, it is like they are trying to say they don't like to explore ior LotRO shouldn't have so many possible new regions to play through. Makes me wonder the intent in such an opinion.

 

If you look at the respective flow of the SoA, it leads you in one direction, to the Witch King. If you look to flow of content released after SoA, a player can pick a path they want to travel. You don't need to do Moria if you don'twant to, because there is quests in Enenwath that lead you south into the Dunland which goes into Rohan.

 

This idea that SoA was better in delivering flow and content in my opinion is misleading if you are talking about the architecture of the word "flow". I for one love the wide open way I can travel Middle earth over the linear path of the Original released game.

 

I think if you level up and play through Rohan , you willsee a l ot of great content things like the Warbands, open world raid bosses and ect.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 557

11/14/13 3:52:41 PM#57
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

I will say this to clarify. The design pattern, flow, and approach between each major expansion isn't very cohesive. Each expansion region is mostly well designed, but when put together as a whole their play and feel don't flow well. You have one style of content approach in SoA, another in Moria, another in RoR, etc. That is all.

I will disagree with this. I found the content flow to be very well done. Being able to ride from Bree to the opening quests for Moria, is pretty epic and very good flow. Once in Moria, well, It;s Moria, you go in one end and come out the other into the Golden Woods, but before you can entter the woods you need to earn the trust of the Elves.

 

After the Woods you head to Mirkwood's , which is an amzing zone to play through in dx11.

 

Why people keep saying the Linear road of the original game is good is beyond me, it is like they are trying to say they don't like to explore ior LotRO shouldn't have so many possible new regions to play through. Makes me wonder the intent in such an opinion.

 

If you look at the respective flow of the SoA, it leads you in one direction, to the Witch King. If you look to flow of content released after SoA, a player can pick a path they want to travel. You don't need to do Moria if you don'twant to, because there is quests in Enenwath that lead you south into the Dunland which goes into Rohan.

 

This idea that SoA was better in delivering flow and content in my opinion is misleading if you are talking about the architecture of the word "flow". I for one love the wide open way I can travel Middle earth over the linear path of the Original released game.

 

I think if you level up and play through Rohan , you willsee a l ot of great content things like the Warbands, open world raid bosses and ect.

I assume he is referring to the dichotomy of dead and ignored supporting systems introduced then left to die on the vine.  It can lead to a stop and jerk feel

 incomparable conparbles;    hobbies; Radience;  LI's (exits now only as a store tie-in); Skirmishes limping along but no huge support for it; Mounted Combat I probably missed a few

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17213

11/14/13 3:57:18 PM#58
Originally posted by BMBender
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

I will say this to clarify. The design pattern, flow, and approach between each major expansion isn't very cohesive. Each expansion region is mostly well designed, but when put together as a whole their play and feel don't flow well. You have one style of content approach in SoA, another in Moria, another in RoR, etc. That is all.

I will disagree with this. I found the content flow to be very well done. Being able to ride from Bree to the opening quests for Moria, is pretty epic and very good flow. Once in Moria, well, It;s Moria, you go in one end and come out the other into the Golden Woods, but before you can entter the woods you need to earn the trust of the Elves.

 

After the Woods you head to Mirkwood's , which is an amzing zone to play through in dx11.

 

Why people keep saying the Linear road of the original game is good is beyond me, it is like they are trying to say they don't like to explore ior LotRO shouldn't have so many possible new regions to play through. Makes me wonder the intent in such an opinion.

 

If you look at the respective flow of the SoA, it leads you in one direction, to the Witch King. If you look to flow of content released after SoA, a player can pick a path they want to travel. You don't need to do Moria if you don'twant to, because there is quests in Enenwath that lead you south into the Dunland which goes into Rohan.

 

This idea that SoA was better in delivering flow and content in my opinion is misleading if you are talking about the architecture of the word "flow". I for one love the wide open way I can travel Middle earth over the linear path of the Original released game.

 

I think if you level up and play through Rohan , you willsee a l ot of great content things like the Warbands, open world raid bosses and ect.

I assume he is referring to the dichotomy of dead and ignored supporting systems introduced then left to die on the vine.  It can lead to a stop and jerk feel

 incomparable conparbles;    hobbies; Radience;  LI's (exits now only as a store tie-in); Skirmishes limping along but no huge support for it; Mounted Combat I probably missed a few

It's an important point.

Though one can still have access to skirmishes. It's possible there  will still be mounted combat as there is more to Helm's Deep.

Radiance was taken out so that isn't in the equation anymore. hobbies? I don't remember when the last time that was mentioned so that's a shame.

 

 

  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 557

11/14/13 4:17:57 PM#59
Originally posted by Sovrath

 

It's an important point.

Though one can still have access to skirmishes. It's possible there  will still be mounted combat as there is more to Helm's Deep.

Radiance was taken out so that isn't in the equation anymore. hobbies? I don't remember when the last time that was mentioned so that's a shame.

 

 

I mentioned radiance since a lot of the old radiance pieces never really got a balance pass in line with normal gear after the systems removal.  This could, of course, have been changed since the last time I had a char running the relevant content.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2034

11/14/13 4:21:48 PM#60
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by BMBender
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

I will say this to clarify. The design pattern, flow, and approach between each major expansion isn't very cohesive. Each expansion region is mostly well designed, but when put together as a whole their play and feel don't flow well. You have one style of content approach in SoA, another in Moria, another in RoR, etc. That is all.

.

I assume he is referring to the dichotomy of dead and ignored supporting systems introduced then left to die on the vine.  It can lead to a stop and jerk feel

 incomparable conparbles;    hobbies; Radience;  LI's (exits now only as a store tie-in); Skirmishes limping along but no huge support for it; Mounted Combat I probably missed a few

It's an important point.

Though one can still have access to skirmishes. It's possible there  will still be mounted combat as there is more to Helm's Deep.

Radiance was taken out so that isn't in the equation anymore. hobbies? I don't remember when the last time that was mentioned so that's a shame.

I agree... poor hobbies in plural, and fishing is still waiting at least 1 additional hobby to have a company on the hobby list...

Honestly, I don't mind that radiance is gone, gear (as in grind) locked content is never a bright idea. Not that finesse would be any better... :)

LI, never liked it right from Moria, but what's even more funny: many of those who loved it in the beginning, lately ditching the system as well, keeping the trusty SA 75 and don't even waste the time for reforging it. LI grind sucks big time.

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