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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Who do you think is the BEST developer?

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242 posts found
  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

11/13/13 4:59:12 PM#101
If anything everquest has been more simplified than wow over the years. wow wasn't that difficult to begin with.
  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/13/13 5:00:00 PM#102
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

CCP.

 

They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.

 

Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.

At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.

And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.

You might not like blizzards games but saying they are laughable just makes you out to be a bitter hater. I am not a huge fan of their games but i can accept that their games are developed to a very high standard of quality that most other companies can't get near.

I'm not denying that their games are polished and that their marketing is masterful. But the actual design of the game, and what they've done with WoW is laughably bad. Its got the most budget and devs of any MMO in history and they're only JUST adding housing. Their PvP and crafting are still terrible, there are no variety in their dungeons.

They've done nothing but sit on WoW, really.

You don't find it a tad bit arrogant to sit on a forum telling the most commercially successful game ever made they could of done it better ? And what they have done is....laughably bad.

Do you make a billion dollars a year on your ideas ?

Nope, and neither does WoW make money off their ideas. Because they don't have their own ideas. WoW is a reskinned hollowed out EverQuest.

And yes, I feel more than qualified to "sit here" and point out why WoW has terrible design.

Does WoW have the best raid system? No. Does it have the best PvP? No. Does it have the best crafting? No. Does it have the best housing? No. Does it have the best classes? No.

WoW was a solidly average game with a lot of good polish. But the biggest factor to its success was brand name. People seem to forget that it was the first big budget MMO based on a popular IP by a company that was insanely popular with all kinds of gamers. A company that spent a year before WoW's launch advertising in every website and magazine, and on Battle.net.

It was the first MMO to get its name in the mainstream, so now when people hear MMO they think WoW. That fact alone gets WoW more players and money than the quality of their game.

 

 

I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

Here's the thing. The ability to polish a game is less a function of the quality of developers and more a function of the budget.

WoW was the first MMO being made by a veteran game company with shit loads of money. Of COURSE it was going to release polished.

And no, you're wrong about all MMOs being buggy messes before WoW. The only MMO I played that I would call "a buggy mess" was Star Wars Galaxies on launch day. In the 7 years I played DAoC, the only bug I ever ran into was getting stuck inside a tent. Once. One time.

Though Horizons WAS notoriously known for being a bad game, so I understand your bias.

  BMBender

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 558

11/13/13 5:01:22 PM#103
Originally posted by nerovipus32
 

To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

Lol that reminds me,  The chat room in EQ's login....spent a lot of time in that thing.

  DamonVile

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

11/13/13 5:04:54 PM#104
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
 

Sorry, guess you just don't understand how market trends work or how game design works.

I said WoW was solidly average. Bad in some areas (raids, classes, dungeons) but solidly average is all you need if your brand name is synomous with MMO.

Your posts always have such high comedic value because unlike some of the other more opinionated people who get confused once in a while, you legitimately don't seem to understand the concept of opinion vrs fact. You actually seem to believe that if you say it, it must be true because....you said it.

Like in your post above where you list off that it has bad raids, classes etc etc. You really believe that is just a fact in the gaming industry and not just your opinion of it's features correct ?

So while no one will ever "win" an argument with he who can have the last word, you'll never be anything more than a good laugh along the way because you can't take someone with that type of attitude seriously in any kind of discussion.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

11/13/13 5:06:10 PM#105
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

CCP.

 

They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.

 

Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.

At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.

And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.

You might not like blizzards games but saying they are laughable just makes you out to be a bitter hater. I am not a huge fan of their games but i can accept that their games are developed to a very high standard of quality that most other companies can't get near.

I'm not denying that their games are polished and that their marketing is masterful. But the actual design of the game, and what they've done with WoW is laughably bad. Its got the most budget and devs of any MMO in history and they're only JUST adding housing. Their PvP and crafting are still terrible, there are no variety in their dungeons.

They've done nothing but sit on WoW, really.

You don't find it a tad bit arrogant to sit on a forum telling the most commercially successful game ever made they could of done it better ? And what they have done is....laughably bad.

Do you make a billion dollars a year on your ideas ?

Nope, and neither does WoW make money off their ideas. Because they don't have their own ideas. WoW is a reskinned hollowed out EverQuest.

And yes, I feel more than qualified to "sit here" and point out why WoW has terrible design.

Does WoW have the best raid system? No. Does it have the best PvP? No. Does it have the best crafting? No. Does it have the best housing? No. Does it have the best classes? No.

WoW was a solidly average game with a lot of good polish. But the biggest factor to its success was brand name. People seem to forget that it was the first big budget MMO based on a popular IP by a company that was insanely popular with all kinds of gamers. A company that spent a year before WoW's launch advertising in every website and magazine, and on Battle.net.

It was the first MMO to get its name in the mainstream, so now when people hear MMO they think WoW. That fact alone gets WoW more players and money than the quality of their game.

 

 

I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

Here's the thing. The ability to polish a game is less a function of the quality of developers and more a function of the budget.

WoW was the first MMO being made by a veteran game company with shit loads of money. Of COURSE it was going to release polished.

And no, you're wrong about all MMOs being buggy messes before WoW. The only MMO I played that I would call "a buggy mess" was Star Wars Galaxies on launch day. In the 7 years I played DAoC, the only bug I ever ran into was getting stuck inside a tent. Once. One time.

Though Horizons WAS notoriously known for being a bad game, so I understand your bias.

 The next mmo adventure after horizon for me was star wars galaxies. I am pretty sure star wars galaxies had a huge budget with lucas arts being involved and all, so money does not always equal quality. Give the developers some credit. Look at swtor, that game had a huge budget but it was a complete mess. *cough* illum*cough*

  TheRealDarkeus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/13
Posts: 284

“I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

11/13/13 5:06:21 PM#106

Firaxis

 

They make XCOM and the Civilization games.  Those games are pretty damn awesome.

 

Used to be Bioware.....  Used to be, and that is all about that.

  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 959

11/13/13 5:15:10 PM#107

MMORPGs:

 

Arenanet and Blizzard.  What gets overlooked with Blizzard is that they communicate non stop with the players.  People may not agree with a change, but the reason is always given for it.  they are much more upfront about things than most devs, thats for certain.

Of the AAA developers, they may be the only two firmly on the good side.  SoE is probably the best of the rest followed by Trion, but at this point it becomes who sucks the least.

 

note: CCP excluded from this because EvE has zero appeal to me so I don't know enugh about CCP

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2830

11/13/13 5:25:09 PM#108
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
 

Sorry, guess you just don't understand how market trends work or how game design works.

I said WoW was solidly average. Bad in some areas (raids, classes, dungeons) but solidly average is all you need if your brand name is synomous with MMO.

Your posts always have such high comedic value because unlike some of the other more opinionated people who get confused once in a while, you legitimately don't seem to understand the concept of opinion vrs fact. You actually seem to believe that if you say it, it must be true because....you said it.

Like in your post above where you list off that it has bad raids, classes etc etc. You really believe that is just a fact in the gaming industry and not just your opinion of it's features correct ?

So while no one will ever "win" an argument with he who can have the last word, you'll never be anything more than a good laugh along the way because you can't take someone with that type of attitude seriously in any kind of discussion.

 To be fair, WoW has had some really bad raids such as loot ship. Oh that was a laughable piece of content right there. I can't say that they have only bad raids, because they do actually try to do some unique things with some of the more major fights. But that's not to say other companies don't have worse raid fights, FFXIV: ARR Binding Coils of Bahamut - Turn 3 anyone?

 The classes in WoW aren't bad as they're the typical class I'd find in an RPG, but they do tend to change them greatly between each expansion making it more or less of a hassle to have to recreate the character you love to play. However, some people might find the major class changes refreshing.

 I'd like to see Blizzard aim for more classes and adding more content that truly feels like Warcraft. I don't like the fact that Horde and Alliance now fight side by side. I envisioned a game with a lot of open PvP across the world and from what I've seen with this next expansion it looks as though they're on the right track.

 Until Blizzard starts to rethink the overall progression for World of Warcraft I'd doubt I'll be willing to get back into it. World of Wacraft is a solid game with several good aspects. But once again they need to rethink their course of action otherwise even the casual crowd will leave.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5949

11/13/13 5:31:36 PM#109

I forgot about Runic. I think that group is awesome.

Torchlight 2 is a great game at a great price. Not only do they offer the game, updates, and servers, for $20 they also include the modding tool as well. Great stuff.

 

Curse you AquaScum!

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2830

11/13/13 5:33:08 PM#110
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I forgot about Runic. I think that group is awesome.

Torchlight 2 is a great game at a great price. Not only do they offer the game, updates, and servers, for $20 they also include the modding tool as well. Great stuff.

 

 I felt that Torchlight 1 was a much better product. The only thing that I believe was missing for the original was the multiplayer. If only they added muliplayer and a dedicated leader board like Diablo 2 and PoE I'd say that Torchlight was a flawless game.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/13/13 5:33:36 PM#111
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

CCP.

 

They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.

 

Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.

At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.

And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.

You might not like blizzards games but saying they are laughable just makes you out to be a bitter hater. I am not a huge fan of their games but i can accept that their games are developed to a very high standard of quality that most other companies can't get near.

I'm not denying that their games are polished and that their marketing is masterful. But the actual design of the game, and what they've done with WoW is laughably bad. Its got the most budget and devs of any MMO in history and they're only JUST adding housing. Their PvP and crafting are still terrible, there are no variety in their dungeons.

They've done nothing but sit on WoW, really.

You don't find it a tad bit arrogant to sit on a forum telling the most commercially successful game ever made they could of done it better ? And what they have done is....laughably bad.

Do you make a billion dollars a year on your ideas ?

Nope, and neither does WoW make money off their ideas. Because they don't have their own ideas. WoW is a reskinned hollowed out EverQuest.

And yes, I feel more than qualified to "sit here" and point out why WoW has terrible design.

Does WoW have the best raid system? No. Does it have the best PvP? No. Does it have the best crafting? No. Does it have the best housing? No. Does it have the best classes? No.

WoW was a solidly average game with a lot of good polish. But the biggest factor to its success was brand name. People seem to forget that it was the first big budget MMO based on a popular IP by a company that was insanely popular with all kinds of gamers. A company that spent a year before WoW's launch advertising in every website and magazine, and on Battle.net.

It was the first MMO to get its name in the mainstream, so now when people hear MMO they think WoW. That fact alone gets WoW more players and money than the quality of their game.

 

 

I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

Here's the thing. The ability to polish a game is less a function of the quality of developers and more a function of the budget.

WoW was the first MMO being made by a veteran game company with shit loads of money. Of COURSE it was going to release polished.

And no, you're wrong about all MMOs being buggy messes before WoW. The only MMO I played that I would call "a buggy mess" was Star Wars Galaxies on launch day. In the 7 years I played DAoC, the only bug I ever ran into was getting stuck inside a tent. Once. One time.

Though Horizons WAS notoriously known for being a bad game, so I understand your bias.

 The next mmo adventure after horizon for me was star wars galaxies. I am pretty sure star wars galaxies had a huge budget with lucas arts being involved and all, so money does not always equal quality. Give the developers some credit. Look at swtor, that game had a huge budget but it was a complete mess. *cough* illum*cough*

SWG had a modest budget compared to WoW. MMOs weren't quite "proven" yet, and most of the funding came from Verant Interactive. Sony certainly wasn't going to drop bank on it.

But you're right about SWOTOR, mostly.

  Riposte.This

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 195

Killing dragons is my shit

11/13/13 5:35:41 PM#112
Riot

Killing dragons is my shit

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

11/13/13 5:37:56 PM#113
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

...

I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

I remember Horizons' load time being the main reason I didn't stick with it. :) 

You're spot on that WOW changed the industry standards of how an MMO should be polished. Every aspect of gameplay was improved from the technical aspect of lowered system requirements and smooth, responsive play to all the little quality of life things that we take for granted, like seeing the comparison window of gear you are wearing when hovering over items on vendors. Although AC2 came out with the UI format we are all familiar with, WOW popularized it and made it the default for the majority of MMOs that came after it. 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  DamonVile

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

11/13/13 5:39:33 PM#114
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
 

 To be fair, WoW has had some really bad raids such as loot ship. Oh that was a laughable piece of content right there. I can't say that they have only bad raids, because they do actually try to do some unique things with some of the more major fights. But that's not to say other companies don't have worse raid fights, FFXIV: ARR Binding Coils of Bahamut - Turn 3 anyone?

 The classes in WoW aren't bad as they're the typical class I'd find in an RPG, but they do tend to change them greatly between each expansion making it more or less of a hassle to have to recreate the character you love to play. However, some people might find the major class changes refreshing.

 

You could say you hated everything about wow and thought it was a terrible game and I'd respect that and discuss it's finer or weaker points because you've expressed your opinion on the game as it relates to you. I'd totally disagree  ;) but your opinion is your opinion.

People become a joke when they confuse that and pretend like it's a fact that the game had bad features. Good and bad features are totally subjective. If you hate it and someone else loves it...it's not a fact, that it's bad, it's an opinion.

People do it because they don't think their own opinion carries enough weight and by twisting it into a " fact" that " many people " believe, it somehow becomes more credible.....it doesn't.

 

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

11/13/13 5:41:30 PM#115
Actually thinking about it, because I thought you were on about current devs, all them British devs circa 1990 like sensible, bitmap brothers, bullfrog, psygnosis, dma design, gremlin, lamasoft etc.. something about Britain then, very creative in music, books, and games.

Also the French had a good gaming industry then with the likes of delphine
  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

11/13/13 5:44:30 PM#116
I don't get the wow hate, wow itself is a very good at what it does a 90% themepark, 90% pve mmo.

It's not wow fault all these poor imitations of it have flooded the mmo market since.
  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

11/13/13 5:46:44 PM#117
Blizzard and CCP.  The Yin and Yang of MMOs.  Nobody else should even enter into the conversation.  
  modus

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/05
Posts: 55

11/13/13 5:48:40 PM#118
Originally posted by Skooma2

Since there was no criteria as to whether we are talking MMO or SP (although I know this is an MMO site), I would answer: 

 

Bethesda.  Why?:  Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim.

QED

Since there was no criteria at all ... I pick me! Food product developer category!

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2543

11/13/13 5:50:00 PM#119


Originally posted by bcbully
Use your own criteria. Justify your answer. 

 

Right now today SOE gets my vote. They are of the developers most inclined to take risks, they have the most impressive engine (What can be down in Planetside 2 is amazing), and they are one of the most competent when it comes to implementing there ideas (weather you like the changes or not.)

 

I would consider Blizzard the most polished and most competent when it comes to system implementation. They are so risk adverse they lose a lot of points imo.

 

By far and wide SnailGames is the most creative, most inclined to take risks developer. They have issues with taking care of things like gold seller spam though. I have been impressed when new systems are implemented they work fresh out the box aswell. They implement far more systems than other games too. They lose points for not being able to solve the spam and they time it took to break bots. 

 

What are your thoughts? Who's the BEST?


About soe your answer is purely based on HYPED GAME its not even close to a honest objective opinion that soe is best.

A year ago or even early almost all of you guys condemmed soe now you suddenle embrace it with passion your all so predictable lol

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  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2830

11/13/13 5:50:45 PM#120
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
 

 To be fair, WoW has had some really bad raids such as loot ship. Oh that was a laughable piece of content right there. I can't say that they have only bad raids, because they do actually try to do some unique things with some of the more major fights. But that's not to say other companies don't have worse raid fights, FFXIV: ARR Binding Coils of Bahamut - Turn 3 anyone?

 The classes in WoW aren't bad as they're the typical class I'd find in an RPG, but they do tend to change them greatly between each expansion making it more or less of a hassle to have to recreate the character you love to play. However, some people might find the major class changes refreshing.

 

You could say you hated everything about wow and thought it was a terrible game and I'd respect that and discuss it's finer or weaker points because you've expressed your opinion on the game as it relates to you. I'd totally disagree  ;) but your opinion is your opinion.

People become a joke when they confuse that and pretend like it's a fact that the game had bad features. Good and bad features are totally subjective. If you hate it and someone else loves it...it's not a fact, that it's bad, it's an opinion.

People do it because they don't think their own opinion carries enough weight and by twisting it into a " fact" that " many people " believe, it somehow becomes more credible.....it doesn't.

 

 But Damon... I am the law! My word is absolute D:


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

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