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Landmark

Landmark 

General Discussion  » SOE will sell your Landmark creations and keep 60% of sales.

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277 posts found
  disownation

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/08
Posts: 245

11/12/13 1:34:02 PM#221
Originally posted by Tissmogi

 

You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.

Are you really saying this is fair?

ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!

 

Being in the "industry" and working in it myself, I can honestly assure you that 40% is an amazing (and unheard of) share in profits. Most artists (whether it be recording artists, authors, what have you) can expect to receive - at most - around 10% from a company or corporation. If you are really, really good or an established artist/writer/performer/creator, you MIGHT be lucky enough to get 20%. And that's a big maybe - I'm talking you need to be Michael Jackson/Madonna status, etc.

 

So SOE's 40% offer of shared profits is well beyond the norm - actually, it doesn't even exist! And is VERY generous considering what the rest of the Industry would give you (again around 10%). It might not seem "fair" because its your work. But that's the way it is. You can take it or leave it. Because if you won't...someone else will (and they will)!

 

Just a little insight from someone who actually works in the Industry.

  Agnostic42

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/04
Posts: 353

11/12/13 1:34:26 PM#222

Blender and Gimp are free, I have used them for years. FREE, as in NO CHARGE. Both are very good and functional programs.

 

Name a game that let's you create items for use in a game....

I'm waiting....

Now name one that let's you make money off of your creations....

Still waiting....

Now name an indie program that let's you make a share of the profits over 15%...

Unless you write a Novel for Amazon, Smashwords, or Apple iBooks or develop a video game from scratch you are SOL. Amazon is the only company who let's you get anything over 60%, and that is for full length Novels priced at 2.99 or higher. They have an amazing plan, trust me, I know=)

 

That's what this is, an Indie program. They give you the platform to make a profit, it's very simple. I see this as Sony's acceptance of Indie designers. Not only have they opened the doors for Indie Game designers, and Author's, they are also opening the door for indie Graphic Designers. What better way of finding diamonds in the rough than giving them a platform to perform on.

 

This is a Win/Win, anyone who thinks otherwise should just go pray to your Microsoft gods of ultimate control.

 

Indie is the future baby, get used to it.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11795

11/12/13 1:34:58 PM#223
Originally posted by Tissmogi

I am not interested in creating content, i don't want to create my own game

What do you think?

 im still waiting to hear more details

 

PC Gamer interview, Nov 11

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/11/11/everquest-next-landmark-is-gurps-for-mmos/

Georgeson and Butler have also expanded on Landmark's in-game currency and real money economies, which will touch every aspect of play.

Most notably, SOE's Player Studio will become a cash marketplace for player-gathered resources, plots of real estate on Landmark's servers, and player-designed building templates, which other players can buy and plop onto their land.

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2999

11/12/13 1:38:41 PM#224
Originally posted by killahh
Originally posted by Dauntis
Hmm... I wonder how much an art asset designer makes working for a game company. I bet it is a whole lot less than 40% of the sales per item.

it is, trust me

lol a guy who makes simple helmets in team fortress 2 gets like 100k for each one.

  dandurin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 478

11/12/13 2:00:30 PM#225
Originally posted by Tissmogi

You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.

Are you really saying this is fair?

ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!

Without the modders SOE would have nothing, ZERO, to sell and could not benefit from all the assets that will keep the game fresh and alive making profit for them, bringing new people that play and generally keeping the game alive.

I think modders deserve more than 40%

.....I think SOE is paying modders too little. You are disagreeing with that, but there is no need to lash out at me for having a different opinion.


Originally posted by Lobotomist

Art galleries take 50% cut from every painting sold. And we are talking paintings where artist invested money in materials himself.

Same here, if you read my OP and the FAQ on the SOE site you knew that the Artist has to provide everything. SOE is just there waiting for the content to come in, review it then make 60% of the sales.

And thats RL

Yupp and that is what makes this 60/40 deal so unfair in my view. Let's compare it since i have heard the Art gallery comparison a few times now.

  • Art gallery cost: rent, utilities, security, catering (vernissage), marketing, reviewing of the art.
  • SOE cost: pretty much the same things except catering and rent (unless you use their offices to create the art which you clearly do not).

Do you really think that SOE has higher cost than an Art gallery, you seriously think it's more expensive to do this virtually rather than in real life?

I don't think so, i really don't. But that was just to show you where i am coming from, if modders and artists in real life are happy with these deals then that is their decision not mine.


Originally posted by Malacth

Just to put things into perspective;

Authors write the book, but only get 10-20% royalties, while publishers get 80-90%. And that's pretty much 100% of the authors work. Yes, the publishers promote and put marketing into the book, otherwise it wouldn't sell at all, but isn't that also what SOE is doing with them putting your creations on their site? Otherwise no one would see it and you'd get paid ZILCH!

I don't think you can compare printing a book, ....

 

You keep using words like "fair" and "deserve" and "compare", and what you "think" modders "should" get.  And you underline and capitalize and punctuate as if you were outraged and offended by the 40% number.

 

I think that's displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.  Thankfully, one beauty of markets is they only react to the opinions of those participating in the transactions.

 

The correct value is simply the sweetspot that maximizes SOE's profit.  That is what modders "deserve", and it is determined by the marketplace, not by whether SOE is "greedy" or "moral" or "fair" or any other judgemental term or whether you think they do "0% of the work".   There's nothing to be outraged about.   SOE will either raise or lower the number based on data, not morality.

 

 

 

 

 

  Tissmogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/11
Posts: 191

 
OP  11/12/13 2:03:04 PM#226
Originally posted by Dihoru
The only noise I see is the OP trying to justify a lobsided, narrowminded and generally subjective point of view by bending over backwards in ways that would make a yoga guru blush just to prove his point (which is somehow that making shit in a game based on a IP that isn't yours, whom you aren't employed in making and who has nothing more to do with you than being a customer of it, makes you entitled to a larger cut of profits from the game than the developers, generously, give you, christ next you'll tell us EVE-Online players should be getting paid for supplying dynamic content).

Hold on a minute there, son . . .

So after accusing me of having an agenda against SOE:

Originally posted by Dihoru  Now arguing with the OP is pointless because this thread isn't made for discussion merely either for the furthering of an agenda or misdirected hatred for a developer.

Accusing me of breaking and bending facts:

Originally posted by Dihoru  I came to this conclusion by you bending and breaking objective facts to fit your own opinion. 

You are now calling me lobsided, narrowminded and subjective. While also saying i a feel entitled and want to make more profit when i CLEARLY STATE IN MY OP AND IN ALL REPLIES TO YOU that i am not a modder and i don't want to create any content.

Seriously, please leave this thread alone if you do not have anything constructive to say about this topic other than attacking me.

Thank you.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/12/13 2:09:54 PM#227
Originally posted by dandurin

The correct value is simply the sweetspot that maximizes SOE's profit.  That is what modders "deserve", and it is determined by the marketplace, not by whether SOE is "greedy" or "moral" or "fair" or any other judgemental term or whether you think they do "0% of the work".   There's nothing to be outraged about.   SOE will either raise or lower the number based on data, not morality.

And Rebel Leaders will attempt to drum up some righteous indignant outrage, and the witch hunt will (or not) happen.

But we get an "OMG Evils of EvilCorp" thread on this site roughly six times a day. Probably not a very good spot to whip up a mob.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2354

11/12/13 2:14:10 PM#228
I think SOE is too bold to try something like this that could make players really rich and SOE get only 60%. As long as the player creation market isn't too bloated with junk or is terrible to navigate, for players that love to constantly create stuff this is going to be quite lucrative for them.

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

"blocked nariusseldon since forever"

  Tissmogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/11
Posts: 191

 
OP  11/12/13 2:14:51 PM#229
Originally posted by dandurin 

You keep using words like "fair" and "deserve" and "compare", and what you "think" modders "should" get.  And you underline and capitalize and punctuate as if you were outraged and offended by the 40% number.

Your observation is correct in so far as i already said many times incl. my OP that i think 40% is too little. I think a 60/40 would be nicer for the modders. Now you can argue against that if you want and i welcome you to do so.

Just pointing out what i said however does not seem to server any purpose.

I think that's displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.  Thankfully, one beauty of markets is they only react to the opinions of those participating in the transactions.

Not going to argue economics on a simple topic like this. I will just say that i will participate in that market by probably not buying overpriced Assets if SOE puts a 60% premium on them.

We shall see how much they really cost, at this point it is all speculation and we heard from posters that actually add to the discussion as opposed to you that there might be a different revenue model behind this.

The correct value is simply the sweetspot that maximizes SOE's profit.  That is what modders "deserve", and it is determined by the marketplace, not by whether SOE is "greedy" or "moral" or "fair" or any other judgemental term or whether you think they do "0% of the work".   There's nothing to be outraged about.   SOE will either raise or lower the number based on data, not morality.

I agree, nothing to be outraged about. In the end i will maybe buy some of those assets or not. Never said SOE is greedy or brought moral into it. It's what it is.

So what was your point making this post? 

 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2555

World > Quest Progression

11/12/13 2:22:04 PM#230
An SoE employee makes the newest cool looking sword for the marketplace. I wonder if they see 40% of the sales from that item?

Personally, if I can find a way to make money while doing something I would have anyways, using tools that aren't mine... Nope, no problem at all and 40% sounds great.
  FlyByKnight

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 538

11/12/13 2:22:45 PM#231

"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits"  -Sony Online Entertainment

 

"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius

  FlyByKnight

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 538

11/12/13 2:24:36 PM#232
P.S. Creators get to suggest prices for their work in some games. OMG. How unfair.
  Tissmogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/11
Posts: 191

 
OP  11/12/13 2:25:51 PM#233
Originally posted by agnostic4eve

Name a game that let's you create items for use in a game....

I'm waiting....

  Team Fortress 2, Dota 2 to name just two on top of my head.

Now name one that let's you make money off of your creations....

Still waiting....

Team fortress creators usually get 100k or more for community items amongst other perks like a unique one time item that usually sells to collectors for a few thousand.

Now name an indie program that let's you make a share of the profits over 15%...

That's what this is, an Indie program. They give you the platform to make a profit, it's very simple. I see this as Sony's acceptance of Indie designers. Not only have they opened the doors for Indie Game designers, and Author's, they are also opening the door for indie Graphic Designers. What better way of finding diamonds in the rough than giving them a platform to perform on.

Indie is the future baby, get used to it.

What this has to do with indie games is beyond my understanding, sorry, wrong thread maybe?

 

  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

11/12/13 2:25:59 PM#234
Originally posted by FlyByKnight

"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits"  -Sony Online Entertainment

 

"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius

This thread in a nutshell. If SoE offered nothing there would be no problem, but they pay you to have fun and it's not enough? I love this group of people.

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  cnutemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/12
Posts: 239

11/12/13 2:30:11 PM#235
Originally posted by FlyByKnight

"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits"  -Sony Online Entertainment

 

"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius

+1

  Tissmogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/11
Posts: 191

 
OP  11/12/13 2:31:28 PM#236

Originally posted by Aelious
An SoE employee makes the newest cool looking sword for the marketplace. I wonder if they see 40% of the sales from that item?

So we are now all employed by SOE and get a monthly paycheck when we buy the game? Because if we don't than you just made the most retarded argument i have yet seen in this thread.
 

Originally posted by FlyByKnight

"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits"  -Sony Online Entertainment 

"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius

That would be ridiculous, 100% of the profits, outrageous! Haha, good one, you crack me up!

However, how is this adding to the topic? Please, in the future, stay on topic.


 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2555

World > Quest Progression

11/12/13 2:33:28 PM#237
OP thank you for bringing up TF2 which is indeed one of the first to sell player created items... with only 25% going to the creator

http://www.teamfortress.com/contribute/legal.php

You mentioned one time items that sell for much more, care to elaborate as I'm not familiar. Links would be great.
  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5827

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

11/12/13 2:38:51 PM#238

MMORPGs are supossed to be fun, not work. With that said, i would rather create some content and get 40% of the profit than grinding never ending raids for gear because thats all we have...

  Tissmogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/11
Posts: 191

 
OP  11/12/13 2:41:04 PM#239
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Tissmogi
Originally posted by Dihoru
The only noise I see is the OP trying to justify a lobsided, narrowminded and generally subjective point of view by bending over backwards in ways that would make a yoga guru blush just to prove his point (which is somehow that making shit in a game based on a IP that isn't yours, whom you aren't employed in making and who has nothing more to do with you than being a customer of it, makes you entitled to a larger cut of profits from the game than the developers, generously, give you, christ next you'll tell us EVE-Online players should be getting paid for supplying dynamic content).

Hold on a minute there, son . . .

So after accusing me of having an agenda against SOE:

Originally posted by Dihoru  Now arguing with the OP is pointless because this thread isn't made for discussion merely either for the furthering of an agenda or misdirected hatred for a developer.

Accusing me of breaking and bending facts:

Originally posted by Dihoru  I came to this conclusion by you bending and breaking objective facts to fit your own opinion. 

You are now calling me lobsided, narrowminded and subjective. While also saying i a feel entitled and want to make more profit when i CLEARLY STATE IN MY OP AND IN ALL REPLIES TO YOU that i am not a modder and i don't want to create any content.

Seriously, please leave this thread alone if you do not have anything constructive to say about this topic other than attacking me.

Thank you.

I was giving you the benefit of a doubt but now I just see you're not even outraged, you're picking at straws trying to see what happens. Btw attacks go something like "I think the OP is a mouth drooling moron" not "I think the OP is being generally human" :) but then again you do seem like the person to miss the forest while looking at the trees.

Considering you're not a modder, never have even been one, considering you have no interest in creating content (which means you will also not play this game because otherwise anything you do in a sandbox could potentially be content) and considering this topic is at best a tangential interest of yours in which you prove a completely lack of understanding for it lets just call it a day and cool off before you ruin your reputation on the forums (no quicker way to do that than to look like a dedicated savant in math critiquing classical poetry).

I am glad we cleared that up to your liking, please stay away.

  AvatarBlade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/11/06
Posts: 774

11/12/13 2:42:08 PM#240

So, people that would probably do this anyway, for free, because they enjoy doing things like modding, have the chance to also get some money and you think it's wrong that they get 40%, instead of the 0% they would get usually. 

These are not people quitting their jobs to make a living from selling their assets in SOE games. It's aimed at people that would do this anyway, for free, because they enjoy it. 

Do they also hope that these people make more art assets than they usually would, without getting any money? Probably, but it is still a reward for an activity some find fun to do in their free time, that usually has no financial gain for the creator.

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