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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Landmark

Landmark 

General Discussion  » SOE will sell your Landmark creations and keep 60% of sales.

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277 posts found
  DocBrody

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1433

11/12/13 6:14:14 AM#161
Originally posted by Tissmogi

 

You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.

Are you really saying this is fair?

ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!

 

YES THIS IS FAIR, AND YOU ARE 100% WRONG

 

Soe "SOE does 0%" ????

Oh yeah and who creates and pays the whole infrastructure, the game, the toolsets, the review process, the servers, marketing and basically EVERYTHING around your little hobbyist art asset?

Stop being entitled and learn some financial basics for gods sake. They should give away even less, 1% or nothing.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4808

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

11/12/13 6:15:34 AM#162

Art galleries take 50% cut from every painting sold.

And we are talking paintings where artist invested money in materials himself.

 

And thats RL

  Malacth

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/08
Posts: 116

11/12/13 6:17:00 AM#163
Originally posted by Tissmogi

 

You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.

Are you really saying this is fair?

ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!

Just to put things into perspective;

Authors write the book, but only get 10-20% royalties, while publishers get 80-90%. And that's pretty much 100% of the authors work. Yes, the publishers promote and put marketing into the book, otherwise it wouldn't sell at all, but isn't that also what SOE is doing with them putting your creations on their site? Otherwise no one would see it and you'd get paid ZILCH!

 

At least SOE is giving people the tools and resources to create these things for free, and then giving them 40% of anything that sells! That's great!

 

God, people complain about anything nowadays.

 

  Tissmogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/11
Posts: 191

 
OP  11/12/13 7:03:27 AM#164

Originally posted by Apraxis

With other words it is more than justified that they claim a fee for any player created content(created with their tools) and sold on their platform.. how large this fee should be is a entirely different question.

I agree, they should charge a fee, i never questioned that. After reading a lot of modders responses they seem to be fine with 40% so i guess that's that.


Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

So wait... people are complaining that if they create something awesome in game during their leisure time &  for their own enjoyment, using the tools provided & developed by Sony (for free), they'll only get 40% of the profit if Sony believes it worthy of being sold?

Not reading the OP or the link i provided does not actually qualify you to post a reply. It has been said like 100 times in this thread that you need professional 3rd party tools to make new Assets. This is not you selling the "lego block" creations you make in Landmark, ANYONE can do that.

They're essentially offering to handle monetization, publication, and distribution of digital goods created by people for fun, and there's complaining?

[mod edit] 

No one is complaining, in fact most modders here seem to be fine with the fact that they get 40%. The OP is also not complaining rather asking modders and others if they think this is a fair cut.

You do realize that they could just as easily take & sell it without giving the creator any publicity or monetary compensation, simply by virtue of every asset other than the design itself being the property of SOE, right? Pretty much every EULA contains a statement to that effect, though usually pertaining to the sale of in-game assets outside of the game itself (selling of equipment, in-game currency, accounts, etc.).

They own nothing you do in your spare time with 3rd party tools. You are completely confused my friend, this is about new Assets and in fear of repeating myself i shall leave it at that.

Most people would be ecstatic about getting paid to do something they enjoy. Then again, this site doesn't really constitute 'most people', does it?

[mod edit] 


Originally posted by Markusrind

One of the firsts jobs I had I got paid £35 a day. The company I worked for charged me out at £265 a day.

They made a profit of £230 a day.

No one is mad that they get only $2000 a month in their job when the company makes billions. I really don't get what you are saying. A job contract is something completely different than selling your 3D Art on the free market. You are not an employee of SONY. I am sure you know that difference. 

How dare they!

How dare SOE take 40% of anything I sell in their game and using their tools and their marketplace!!!!

Not their tools, it says so in the OP and on the SOE site if you bothered to read it.

Yes a joke about the situation, but I am pointing a big fat finger at the OP at how pointless and stupid his point is.

What point exactly did i make that you think is stupid? I asked what other people think about the 40/60 cut, mainly modders. I also said that i think it s a little bit one sided in favour of SOE.


Originally posted by Maejohl

I completely agree.

 Without the game there would be no chance of making any money.  A 50/50 split would suggest that both parties brought equal things to the table, whereas in fact it's SOE that is taking ALL of the risk in investing in the game and the player takes none.

Without the modders SOE would have nothing, ZERO, to sell and could not benefit from all the assets that will keep the game fresh and alive making profit for them, bringing new people that play and generally keeping the game alive.

I think modders deserve more than 40%


Originally posted by DocBrody

Originally posted by Tissmogi

 

You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.

Are you really saying this is fair?

ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!

 

YES THIS IS FAIR, AND YOU ARE 100% WRONG

Soe "SOE does 0%" ????

In terms of creating the Asset, yes. they do 0%, they don't even provide the tools like for example apple does for their developers and those get a better share at the apple store.

Oh yeah and who creates and pays the whole infrastructure, the game, the toolsets, the review process, the servers, marketing and basically EVERYTHING around your little hobbyist art asset?

If people don't mod then SOE does not get to make any money.

Stop being entitled and learn some financial basics for gods sake. They should give away even less, 1% or nothing.

I am not entitled since i am not a modder or even remotely interested in making Assets for this game. I think SOE is paying modders too little. You are disagreeing with that, but there is no need to lash out at me for having a different opinion.


Originally posted by Lobotomist

Art galleries take 50% cut from every painting sold. And we are talking paintings where artist invested money in materials himself.

Same here, if you read my OP and the FAQ on the SOE site you knew that the Artist has to provide everything. SOE is just there waiting for the content to come in, review it then make 60% of the sales.

And thats RL

Yupp and that is what makes this 60/40 deal so unfair in my view. Let's compare it since i have heard the Art gallery comparison a few times now.

  • Art gallery cost: rent, utilities, security, catering (vernissage), marketing, reviewing of the art.
  • SOE cost: pretty much the same things except catering and rent (unless you use their offices to create the art which you clearly do not).

Do you really think that SOE has higher cost than an Art gallery, you seriously think it's more expensive to do this virtually rather than in real life?

I don't think so, i really don't. But that was just to show you where i am coming from, if modders and artists in real life are happy with these deals then that is their decision not mine.


Originally posted by Malacth

Just to put things into perspective;

Authors write the book, but only get 10-20% royalties, while publishers get 80-90%. And that's pretty much 100% of the authors work. Yes, the publishers promote and put marketing into the book, otherwise it wouldn't sell at all, but isn't that also what SOE is doing with them putting your creations on their site? Otherwise no one would see it and you'd get paid ZILCH!

I don't think you can compare printing a book, making a nationwide marketing campaign, scheduling media appearances, making deals with retailers and distributors to SOE putting your item into a virtual shop on their web server. I really don't think you can compare that and i am sure you agree once you took a step back and thought it over.

At least SOE is giving people the tools and resources to create these things for free, and then giving them 40% of anything that sells! That's great!

[mod edit] 

It's been said a hundred times that you need to bring all your own tools.

 

  Hultay

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/07/13
Posts: 58

11/12/13 7:19:40 AM#165

I am still confused about Landmark ... couse it seems that it will have its own tools:

https://forums.station.sony.com/playerstudio/index.php?threads/eqnl-asset-creation-question.11500058357/ <- read the Syrah response

  AIMonster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2016

11/12/13 7:27:35 AM#166

@Tissmogi not going to quote that wall of text directly, but you mentioned that Apple gives the tools for developers to create content.  I'm unsure of what you are referring to?  Xcode I'm guessing?  It's not as if the Xcode IDE is a requirement for coding games for iOS.  Apple takes 30% of the cut (used to be 40%) primarily for distribution only and that's it.  SoE is pretty much doing the same thing, giving a set of standards and providing the distribution network to deliver your content on doing all the distribution work.

I'm pretty sure SoE cleans up each creation significantly before placing it on the SoE store.  They do in fact put a lot more work than Apple likely does on reviewing apps to be placed on the app store.  They are going through each asset and modifying it to look better and be better supported in game.  SoE is also doing what is the equivalent of an art gallery in providing a means and space to display your work to potential purchasers.

You always have the option not to participate in this if you feel it's unfair.  That's why I don't understand this outrage at all.  If you feel you can make more money for your work elsewhere then by all means do that.  If you feel like Player Studio is going to be a good way to get your work out there and get paid for doing then, then go ahead and participate.  It's an option, and being outraged by an option that doesn't effect you at all is just absolutely absurd.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

11/12/13 7:45:11 AM#167
Originally posted by Malacth
Originally posted by Tissmogi

 

You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.

Are you really saying this is fair?

ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!

Just to put things into perspective;

Authors write the book, but only get 10-20% royalties, while publishers get 80-90%. And that's pretty much 100% of the authors work. Yes, the publishers promote and put marketing into the book, otherwise it wouldn't sell at all, but isn't that also what SOE is doing with them putting your creations on their site? Otherwise no one would see it and you'd get paid ZILCH!

 

At least SOE is giving people the tools and resources to create these things for free, and then giving them 40% of anything that sells! That's great!

 

God, people complain about anything nowadays.

 

i'm very surprised by the amount of people that are ok with this. 

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

11/12/13 7:46:55 AM#168
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Art galleries take 50% cut from every painting sold.

And we are talking paintings where artist invested money in materials himself.

 

And thats RL

people ripping off other people for their own gain is indeed real life.  so we should all just bend over take it I guess.  right?

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Lokberg

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 304

11/12/13 7:48:21 AM#169

@Tissmogi

Its kinda your own fault for bringing this topic up in context with the title you put on the disscusion,

this have nothing to do with landmark( This may however change ofcourse).

Player studio

Which games are included in this program?
We are currently accepting submissions for EverQuest®, EverQuest® II, PlanetSide® 2, and Free Realms®.
 
So we dont know if landmark will go the same way with the split at all.
 
Stop mixing apples and oranges please
  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

11/12/13 7:51:21 AM#170
Originally posted by Maejohl
Originally posted by Agoden

You're joking right? How many games allow you to actually make money? Barely any of them.

The fact that you get anything at all rather then just sharing it for free is fantastic.

 

I don't see how anyone could be upset over this.

 

If anything we should just be upset creations are paid to begin with, but i guess thats the business model.

I completely agree.

 

Without the game there would be no chance of making any money.  A 50/50 split would suggest that both parties brought equal things to the table, whereas in fact it's SOE that is taking ALL of the risk in investing in the game and the player takes none.

Frankly you're all lucky it's not a less even share.

all the risk?  this is just another way to reach into the consumers pocket. 

 

founders packs,  micro-transactions,  hand selected player creations they sell and keep most of the money from,  etc.   i'm sure there will be more in the near future.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2056

11/12/13 7:52:27 AM#171


Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Lobotomist Art galleries take 50% cut from every painting sold. And we are talking paintings where artist invested money in materials himself.   And thats RL
people ripping off other people for their own gain is indeed real life.  so we should all just bend over take it I guess.  right?

Your lack of understanding about how the world works doesn't make the game developers the bad guys. You can complain about whatever you want but if it works just like it does in every other walk of life it probably isn't 'ripping' anyone off.

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2612

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

11/12/13 7:53:12 AM#172
Doesn't matter for me, it is a SONY product and that is enough for me to steer clear.  They have never made anything decent, at least in my eyes.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5103

11/12/13 7:54:36 AM#173

SoE is banking on player made content as a development path for EQN.

Success of Landmark will lead to furthering EQN development (all devs are working on Landmark now)

If Landmark fails, EQN may never see the light of day, as SoE would have to fund it internally and hire devs to do the content they expected players to contribute.

 

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

11/12/13 7:56:56 AM#174
Originally posted by Ender4

 


Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Lobotomist Art galleries take 50% cut from every painting sold. And we are talking paintings where artist invested money in materials himself.   And thats RL
people ripping off other people for their own gain is indeed real life.  so we should all just bend over take it I guess.  right?

 

Your lack of understanding about how the world works doesn't make the game developers the bad guys. You can complain about whatever you want but if it works just like it does in every other walk of life it probably isn't 'ripping' anyone off.

my lack of understanding?  you obviously have no clue.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12112

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/12/13 8:02:43 AM#175
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Maejohl
Originally posted by Agoden

You're joking right? How many games allow you to actually make money? Barely any of them.

The fact that you get anything at all rather then just sharing it for free is fantastic.

I don't see how anyone could be upset over this.

If anything we should just be upset creations are paid to begin with, but i guess thats the business model.

I completely agree.

 

Without the game there would be no chance of making any money.  A 50/50 split would suggest that both parties brought equal things to the table, whereas in fact it's SOE that is taking ALL of the risk in investing in the game and the player takes none.

Frankly you're all lucky it's not a less even share.

all the risk?  this is just another way to reach into the consumers pocket. 

...and put money in it. But somehow that's a bad thing because you aren't getting everything, just part of it.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  jesteralways

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 546

11/12/13 8:11:41 AM#176
Originally posted by Tissmogi

 

"If a player-created item is selected for inclusion in the SOE Marketplace, SOE will share 40% of the net amount it receives from the sale of the item with the player that created the item."  

Additionally, following is a list of useful third party art tools for helping to create in-game items:

3D Modeling:

Texturing:

 
UPDATE: It's currently only for US citizens and you need to fill out forms sent to you by their finance department incl. some tax return papers and other things.
 
  1. Without People creating content SOE would sell NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH on their Players Market.
  2. No SOE tools are involved in creating content, you need 3DSMax, Maya, Phtosohop and similar to create content.
  3. I am not interested in creating content, i don't want to create my own game and i am just reporting this and wondering how this is fair. 
Does not sound like a good deal to me. What do you think?

So they will not provide a world building tool and builders will have to buy those mentioned software(some of them cost a lot of money to have full functionality) to build. and then SOE will take them, sell them and keep 60% of the money? nice going SOE. glad i don't get hyped by their shit  anymore. my well wishes to the people who are pulling SOE's wagon.  

No panties, No Life

  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

11/12/13 8:30:15 AM#177
Originally posted by jesteralways
Originally posted by Tissmogi

 

"If a player-created item is selected for inclusion in the SOE Marketplace, SOE will share 40% of the net amount it receives from the sale of the item with the player that created the item."  

Additionally, following is a list of useful third party art tools for helping to create in-game items:

3D Modeling:

Texturing:

 
UPDATE: It's currently only for US citizens and you need to fill out forms sent to you by their finance department incl. some tax return papers and other things.
 
  1. Without People creating content SOE would sell NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH on their Players Market.
  2. No SOE tools are involved in creating content, you need 3DSMax, Maya, Phtosohop and similar to create content.
  3. I am not interested in creating content, i don't want to create my own game and i am just reporting this and wondering how this is fair. 
Does not sound like a good deal to me. What do you think?

So they will not provide a world building tool and builders will have to buy those mentioned software(some of them cost a lot of money to have full functionality) to build. and then SOE will take them, sell them and keep 60% of the money? nice going SOE. glad i don't get hyped by their shit  anymore. my well wishes to the people who are pulling SOE's wagon.  

 

Incorrect. No one HAS to buy anything, as development of content is not mandatory in order to play Landmark. Should one desire to purchase these tools that have very practical applications in countless ways outside of Landmark, SOE is providing a way for players to make money back from doing so that didn't exist before yesterday. Alternatively, millions of players that already own content development software are free to use what they already own to make money in a game SOE developed and marketed to millions of people. In short, SOE has offered a way for people to make money doing what they love in a game they spent a lot of time and money developing and people are angry because SOE wants to generate some money from it as well. They are so greedy, this business is.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Tissmogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/11
Posts: 191

 
OP  11/12/13 8:33:46 AM#178

Originally posted by AIMonster

@Tissmogi not going to quote that wall of text directly, but you mentioned that Apple gives the tools for developers to create content.  I'm unsure of what you are referring to?  Xcode I'm guessing?  It's not as if the Xcode IDE is a requirement for coding games for iOS.  Apple takes 30% of the cut (used to be 40%) primarily for distribution only and that's it.  SoE is pretty much doing the same thing, giving a set of standards and providing the distribution network to deliver your content on doing all the distribution work.

Apple provides XCODE and the API's and takes 30%. SOE does not provide any API or Development tool and takes 60%. Seems like we agree on that, right?

Now, if this is fair or not is every ones own opinion. I think it is not.

I'm pretty sure SoE cleans up each creation significantly before placing it on the SoE store.  They do in fact put a lot more work than Apple likely does on reviewing apps to be placed on the app store.  They are going through each asset and modifying it to look better and be better supported in game.

SOE does not even accept your Asset if it is not cleaned up or is not conform to their standards. The artist is making sure it fits in the game. Every game has extremely detailed and restrictive requirements down to UV settings, texture size, Alpha channels and polygon numbers. SOE does Fuck all to optimize it. the Artist does.

But hey, you could have found that out by reading it on the website before coming here. You are simply making things up, i think you should get informed first before you make replies like this.

SoE is also doing what is the equivalent of an art gallery in providing a means and space to display your work to potential purchasers.

You seriously telling me that putting a virtual item into a virtual shop costs the same as running an art gallery, marketing it, sending out invites to events, provide catering and security? I don't think so and i already said that in a reply above which you obviously did not read at all. not that i am surprised given the rest of your posts.

You always have the option not to participate in this if you feel it's unfair.  That's why I don't understand this outrage at all.  If you feel you can make more money for your work elsewhere then by all means do that.  If you feel like Player Studio is going to be a good way to get your work out there and get paid for doing then, then go ahead and participate.  It's an option, and being outraged by an option that doesn't effect you at all is just absolutely absurd.

Here we go again with the not reading part, it's really getting ridiculous at this point, seriously why did you even make these replies if you do not read the OP?

No outrage and i already said in the OP i am not participating, i am not seeking to make money, i am not interested in making any mods at all so i am confused by what you are saying here. Maybe read my OP again and try to understand it? I said i think 40/60 is not fair and asked people, mainly modders to discuss it.


Originally posted by Lokberg

@Tissmogi

Its kinda your own fault for bringing this topic up in context with the title you put on the disscusion, this have nothing to do with landmark( This may however change ofcourse).

Player studio

Which games are included in this program?

We are currently accepting submissions for EverQuest®, EverQuest® II, PlanetSide® 2, and Free Realms®.
 
So we dont know if landmark will go the same way with the split at all.
 
Stop mixing apples and oranges please
 
 
I present you with Exhibit A: Landmark Homepage, one would think a person posting here would have at least looked at that, but hey, what can you do, right?
 
 

 

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2014

11/12/13 8:41:28 AM#179
LOL@ this thread. This whole thing is based on the apparent assumption that a transaction can't be good for both parties. You think SOE is ripping people off simply because they're making a profit? How about you go develop the infrastructure and brand that will allow you to sell your beautiful creations to millions of people? Because right now if you open up Photoshop and draw a picture of a castle I don't see people lining up at your door to buy it.

if you do have those means, then good luck to you. Nobody is forcing you to give your product to EQN. What an awful thread....
  User Deleted
11/12/13 8:42:55 AM#180

I don't get the OP... I mean the offer is 40% of something you spent time on willingly as part of a fun activity. The supplementary tools mentioned are, by what I can tell, going to be for higher end content creation not the bargain bin level so the average content creating user will never even need them and will get some cash from playing a video game they invested time in.

 

[mod edit]

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