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News & Features Discussion  » EverQuest Next: Latest Roundtable Discusses Fast Travel

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54 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5672

11/06/13 5:15:11 PM#41
Originally posted by Ender4

Originally posted by Ridrith
Having more WPs are good because that allows you to find your friends that much faster and easier.  That's what MMOs are about.  Playing with others and enjoying the game with your clan mates and friends.

I thought they were about playing an alternate personality in a fantasy world and being involved in a community that lives within that world. It is important to keep the feeling of a world and community and things like fast travel destroys that feeling. If my only goal is to just hop in and play with friends I'd probably enjoy the lobby games we keep getting, that isn't what I want. It isn't what MMORPG used to be about either.

I'm not looking to play a game, I am looking to experience a world. Eventually a developer will make that happen again.

Really? Because Lineage 1 had bookmarkable ports and it had an incredible community and world feeling. There were no instances and any zoned dungeons were all public and shared. You could teleport nearly anywhere in the world and you could bookmark that exact location. It added to, not detracted from the immersion of the gameplay.

Maybe poorly designed worlds with nothing to do and no reason to explore are the causes of destroying that world feeling. Maybe poor communities are the reason that the feeling of a good community is destroyed.

Maybe it's instances you're thinking about or some other reason because fast travel and ports definitely aren't a definite cause for world and community destruction. I mean people keep saying this but I've yet to see a concrete correlation. Do you have an example you can provide as an illustration that would absolutely correlate ports and fast travel to the destruction of that whole world feel?

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Holophonist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2015

11/06/13 5:22:54 PM#42

Fast travel is such a tricky subject. For me it seems to be based on how the game is made. For instance, I loved UO's system which was basically you could mark a rune almost anywhere in the world (not in dungeons) and then either teleport there yourself or open a gate so other people could follow as well using magery. That's fast travel to the most extreme degree. It just fit with how the game was played. It being a full loot ow pvp game it made sense to have that kind of mobility. You could call in help if you needed it, or get out of dodge quick if you had to.

 

On the other hand I like how in Darkfall you have to run to most places. There are a few portals around the world that you can jump between, but that's for really long distances and there is almost always a decent amount of hoofing it on either end of the trip.

 

One thing I would like to see is more automated traveling, like in EVE. I think in The Repopulation they were toying around with the idea of having a subway system.

  Nurf3duk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/13
Posts: 34

11/06/13 7:04:19 PM#43
Why is it such an effort to have to travel to get somewhere? I see alot of "Don't use fast travel then!" , what are you in such a rush for?
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5672

11/07/13 1:20:41 PM#44
Originally posted by Nurf3duk
Why is it such an effort to have to travel to get somewhere? I see alot of "Don't use fast travel then!" , what are you in such a rush for?

Well the goal of travelling to a destination is getting to where you want to be, right? That's sort of different from scenic travelling where the goal is to sight see along the way to an eventual vacation spot.

The rush is to spend quality time doing the things you want to do in order to accomplish your goals. It's not that there is a need to rush, but a desire to not waste unproductive time along the way.

I've asked this question before, but I don't think I got an answer: Why would I want to spend time in areas killing mobs that I don't need to, harvesting materials that I don't need, and spend time talking to NPCs that have nothing to do with my goal? It's like planning to meet someone (to shop, lunch, visit, work, meet, etc) but then going off and doing other things instead of going to your meeting with them? Would you ask someone who travels straight there why they're in such a rush? Why they don't want to go the opposite direction for the day and do something else? Do you ask them why they took a vehicle instead of walking on their hands to the destination?

The "Why do you rush" question implies that one can't enjoy the aesthetics around them once they arrive, or even on the way if the travel is just automated (like fast horse travel in LotRO or flight in EQ2).

This also doesn't preclude the option for scenic travel to a general area. While you may want to fast travel one day with a specific goal in mind, the next you might just choose to meander to a different location taking in the scenery and events along the way. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  ropenice

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 585

11/07/13 1:36:48 PM#45
Originally posted by Ender4

 


Originally posted by ishist
tl;dw

 

"We want the players to experience epic journeys and to feel the epic scale of the world. But people bitched so we're giving everyone fast travel everywhere."

 

Why do they bother putting up these roundtable polls? They've ignored the results of the majority of them.

Q:  Should all races have access to play all classes?

Leading poll result: I'd like to see certain races restricted to certain classes based on lore

Their response: We don't feel that restricting class from races is good so we're just gonna go ahead and let you roll up that Ogre Wizard and a Halfling Shadowknight.


 

Actually they were going to have restricted races, the polls agreed with them but the discussions pointed out exactly why restricted races were not going to fit their game design philosophy. You pointed out exactly what these are for, they changed racial restrictions already because of it.

So experienced devs working on a game for years needed to be enlightened by players that the race restrictions wouldn't fit their philosophy. How could they over the years not have come to their own conclusion? Smells fishy. Seems more likely they wanted to have no restrictions and thought the poll would support this, but had to backtrack when it didn't. These guys should be knowledgeable about mmos in general and their own game philosophy to have made that decision well before a poll or being told by a forum discussion.

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1090

11/07/13 3:06:29 PM#46
Originally posted by Ridrith

Despite all of the way points GW2s world never really felt all that small to me, WPs all over the place don't really bother me that much either.  I just don't see how/why they'd bother anybody to begin with.  If you don't want to use the system don't use it...  It's just that easy.  When it comes to the world seeming small, if it's not who cares?  Having more WPs are good because that allows you to find your friends that much faster and easier.  That's what MMOs are about.  Playing with others and enjoying the game with your clan mates and friends.

Thats not what MMO's are about.  Thats what multiplayer games are about.  MMOs are multiplayer games, but that doesnt make them equal.

MMO's were started based on the idea of a persistent world that when you logged out of it, things still happened and went on.  Part of that persistent world was the feeling of immersion.  Just like in real life when you can't just instaport somewhere, you couldnt in the MMO's with a couple of exceptions.  In EQ you had druids and wizards who could cast port spells.  So it allowed you to get to a major part of the world quickly, but just like in RL (lets say you fly somewhere) you still gotta spend at least a little bit of time travelling to your ultimate destination.

Do you think people would care about vacations in italy or france, or something like that if they could just insta port there any time they wanted.  Nothing would be special anymore, nobody would care about going somewhere special.  The world would no longer feel large.

Guess what, same thing happens in MMO's.

I'm not against fast travel, im just against it at the level of dispersion it is at in most modern MMO's.

IMO an early EQ1 system + mounts is the perfect way to do it. Have 1 or 2 points per continent that can be ported to, and then mounts once you reach say 60-75% of max level.  Also, let raids be able to port in other raiders by at least one person showing up ahead of time and entering the instance.  I say this only because raiders need all the time they can get and it gets to be a logistical nightmare getting 20-40 people to show up at a physical location at the same time, etc.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2056

11/07/13 3:11:08 PM#47


Originally posted by ropenice
So experienced devs working on a game for years needed to be enlightened by players that the race restrictions wouldn't fit their philosophy. How could they over the years not have come to their own conclusion? Smells fishy. Seems more likely they wanted to have no restrictions and thought the poll would support this, but had to backtrack when it didn't. These guys should be knowledgeable about mmos in general and their own game philosophy to have made that decision well before a poll or being told by a forum discussion.


Yes because it really doesn't make any sense~. If your idea for your character requires one specific class you just pick a race that can be that class, your idea shouldn't be tied to 1 of 40 classes anyway. This shouldn't be a major hurdle for the player base but enough people spoke up saying it would be that they changed their minds.

I personally hate the choice they made, I'd rather have the restrictions. So my Ogre has to pick Shaman as his healing part instead of Cleric, this isn't some big deal for any normal person. But the MMORPG fan base seems to think everything has to be made open to them and any obstacle is evil.

  mysticaluna

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 250

11/09/13 8:06:09 AM#48

I love flying mounts, so all I really want in exploration is huge expansive zones catered to special flying mount locations, that can only be reached after you are high level with a flying mount, then all of the old zones for newbies would have high levels in them doing higher level air quests. 

You'd also still have fun legendary epic storyline quests requiring higher levels to return to older lower level zones, and you could really open up a lot if higher levels were in the sky doing their thing. Instead of having to always make brand new zones, why not just have awesome shared zones between different level players? 

Of course, without levels you could just do the class/skill tree system thing and everyone mingles, but with the same idea that you'd have to do some long legendary quest for a flying mount and have special mount skill tree points spent. 

Still, I worry about the graphics, it looks to much like WoW, and even though I play WoW, I wanted EQ to retain its realistic look in-between lord of the rings onilne and wow . 

  mysticaluna

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 250

11/09/13 8:11:54 AM#49

Zones should be huge because that is why Wizard/Druid portals had a point. By installing travel bells in Everquest 2 they took away the entire point of teleports, and in Everquest 1 you had Plane of Knowledge books. All of those portals opened up the world, which is huge and needed it, yet at the same time all of the Guild Halls have teleports as well. 

So, why not at least restrict travel bells and teleports to Guilds and their Halls? 

Now, it is insanely to easy to travel, and Druid/Wizards almost never need to teleport anyone but themselves anymore... 

At least, in Everquest 1 you had to buy a re-agent to use the Guild Hall's teleporter, but the Plane of Knowledge Book is free. In Everquest 2, the teleport bell adds to the guild hall's status / coin upkeep maintenance but is otherwise free to all users. 

Without more of a penalty cost of using them, they really took away the coolness factor of being a teleporter class ><. I saw when teleports used to be in demand and got paid for some on my Wizard back in old Everquest 1, alas, now no one needs them anymore ... 

The most fun was porting people to Plane of Sky... Why do we have these huge zones, but take away the point of teleporting players? When you can just call to guild hall on Everquest 2, or port back to Origin point/Gate/use that Plane of Knowledge click necklace/click other items on Everquest 1? 

  mysticaluna

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 250

11/09/13 8:15:18 AM#50

I agree with classes being opened to all races, but they should have penaltys, that is what makes role-play. 

An Ogre Wizard should naturally have high str and low int/wisdom. Now, that wouldn't keep you from getting equipment or doing quests to up your int/wisdom. Starting stats should have racial/class quests and allow you to learn to improve those stats in a storyline ip fitting manner. 

No one should just easily get equipment and match a Gnome or a Elven Wizard for example. Dark Elves should have special quests to magically enhance their physical strength, draining some of their high naturally intellect, they shouldn't just be given easy mode beginning stats or op gear to fix that. 

Starting on Everquest 1 now gives you insanely op gear, where almost all of your non-sv resist stats are maxed practically by level 30... Your primary stat is way overcapped and wasted, that you need AA to buy planar power and increase your primary stat cap ! 

  PsychoticHamster

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 97

11/09/13 8:23:08 AM#51
I'm okay with fast travel as long as its not a teleport. Fast travel in WoW was great because it still preserved the epic size of the world, whereas in GW2 it was a terrible addition because no matter how large the map was, the world didn't feel big at all. As long as there's actual travel time between the fast travel nodes, I'm okay with it.

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

11/09/13 8:24:25 AM#52
im sorry but the developers of this game seem to have no direction.  it's nice that they ask the community for their opinions.  but,   they are supposed to be game developers,  not yes men.  keeping my eye on this because it's "the next big thing".  but so far I've been less than impressed by anything they've told us.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2056

11/09/13 9:20:01 AM#53


Originally posted by muffins89
im sorry but the developers of this game seem to have no direction.  it's nice that they ask the community for their opinions.  but,   they are supposed to be game developers,  not yes men.  keeping my eye on this because it's "the next big thing".  but so far I've been less than impressed by anything they've told us.

If every developer was this open you'd be more used to this. A game in pre-alpha doesn't tend to have these types of questions all answered yet. I beta tested WoW in friends and family beta and the game that was released way miles different than the game I started playing.

  Raquis

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 303

11/11/13 10:52:51 AM#54

that's good if you want to explore you can.

living world not running through worlds.

they should have all level quests at all worlds so you go back for more.

no levels just experience is also better.

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