Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | Firefall | H1Z1 | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,852,041 Users Online:0
Games:733  Posts:6,226,583
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Looking to understand why certain people are highly turned off by instancing

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
136 posts found
  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/06/13 2:21:53 PM#61
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by monochrome19
Wow... the "logic" some of you are using is so... idk if theres a word for it. Its just REALLY REALLY REALLY bad. Instancing does NOT destroy the community, nor does it make the world smaller (in most cases), and if your so uptight having a temporary invisible partition between you and uninvolved people kills your "immersion" its nobodies fault but your own. There are 100s of other reasons but my God you people are insatiable. Have a Snickers, your not yourself when your hungry.

You've obviously never played a noninstanced MMO. Those "uninvolved" people aren't uninvolved just because they aren't in your group. They may become a part of your group. You may talk to them, trade with them, rez them, clash with them. It's all a part of the social experience.

Theres a shit load of data and articles from decades of online games written by very VERY smart developers discussing exactly what leads towards community forming in games and what hurts it. Virtually everyone agrees instancing hurts, for reasons that have been clearly explained here by people with many years of MMO experience. You saying "nuh uh" isn't going to make that go away.

Can you link a few of those articles you are referring to?

One is here

 

But the whole post, listing a number of things that lead to community building, are in his original post.

 

Where, in either one of those links, did you get that Raph says instancing hurts the social experience? In one link,"instancing" or "instance" never even shows up in the text anywhere.

If you actually read the links, instead of looking for one word in a massive body of text, you'd understand.

  knightaudit

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/06/05
Posts: 243

Those are my thoughts, not yours

11/06/13 2:22:51 PM#62

I think the problem is not the instance, but how the instance is used that breaks the game. I think back to 2004 - 2005 when WOW came out ... if you wanted to run a dungeon you had to go there .. (Ahh the challenge of getting to Scarlet Monistary with no flight paths from Stormwind). I can recall my guild at the time doing that as a guild many times.

I think that the Dungeon Finder makes the players more lazy. All they have to do is sit in one place .. click and wait. I think that is when Imersion stops ... when you do not have to work at getting there.

If you did not have instaces and got rid of camping the mob from EQ ... what do you have as a system for dungeons and getting better loot at that level?

  monochrome19

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 322

11/06/13 2:22:54 PM#63
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by monochrome19
Wow... the "logic" some of you are using is so... idk if theres a word for it. Its just REALLY REALLY REALLY bad. Instancing does NOT destroy the community, nor does it make the world smaller (in most cases), and if your so uptight having a temporary invisible partition between you and uninvolved people kills your "immersion" its nobodies fault but your own. There are 100s of other reasons but my God you people are insatiable. Have a Snickers, your not yourself when your hungry.

You've obviously never played a noninstanced MMO. Those "uninvolved" people aren't uninvolved just because they aren't in your group. They may become a part of your group. You may talk to them, trade with them, rez them, clash with them. It's all a part of the social experience.

 

Theres a shit load of data and articles from decades of online games written by very VERY smart developers discussing exactly what leads towards community forming in games and what hurts it. Virtually everyone agrees instancing hurts, for reasons that have been clearly explained here by people with many years of MMO experience. You saying "nuh uh" isn't going to make that go away.

Would you like to know what TRULY kills community? DFs, RFs, Anything "Finders"!

Instancing does not stop you from socializing. I've never not talked to someone because i was in an instance, going to an instance, etc... All instancing does is allow multiple groups of people to participate in something at the same time without negatively infringing on each other.

 

Group Finders however are a little different. They encourage you to sit in cities and wait for your que to pop, not explore the world, and not ask that cool Paladin over there,

"Hey wanna party with me?"

  monochrome19

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 322

11/06/13 2:23:29 PM#64
Originally posted by knightaudit

I think the problem is not the instance, but how the instance is used that breaks the game. I think back to 2004 - 2005 when WOW came out ... if you wanted to run a dungeon you had to go there .. (Ahh the challenge of getting to Scarlet Monistary with no flight paths from Stormwind). I can recall my guild at the time doing that as a guild many times.

I think that the Dungeon Finder makes the players more lazy. All they have to do is sit in one place .. click and wait. I think that is when Imersion stops ... when you do not have to work at getting there.

If you did not have instaces and got rid of camping the mob from EQ ... what do you have as a system for dungeons and getting better loot at that level?

+1

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/06/13 2:37:21 PM#65
Originally posted by monochrome19
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by monochrome19
Wow... the "logic" some of you are using is so... idk if theres a word for it. Its just REALLY REALLY REALLY bad. Instancing does NOT destroy the community, nor does it make the world smaller (in most cases), and if your so uptight having a temporary invisible partition between you and uninvolved people kills your "immersion" its nobodies fault but your own. There are 100s of other reasons but my God you people are insatiable. Have a Snickers, your not yourself when your hungry.

You've obviously never played a noninstanced MMO. Those "uninvolved" people aren't uninvolved just because they aren't in your group. They may become a part of your group. You may talk to them, trade with them, rez them, clash with them. It's all a part of the social experience.

 

Theres a shit load of data and articles from decades of online games written by very VERY smart developers discussing exactly what leads towards community forming in games and what hurts it. Virtually everyone agrees instancing hurts, for reasons that have been clearly explained here by people with many years of MMO experience. You saying "nuh uh" isn't going to make that go away.

Would you like to know what TRULY kills community? DFs, RFs, Anything "Finders"!

Instancing does not stop you from socializing.

Yes, it does. How can you talk to people you can't see? How can you help other groups you can't see?

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12141

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/06/13 2:40:53 PM#66
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Voqar

IMO it comes down to grief.  Some people love it.  See any MMORPG PvP scenario.  If there are shared resources, like say, an open world dungeon with bosses that people can fight over, take from each other, camp, etc, there's an opportunity for grief, and some people love being able to inflict grief.

I don't see open world dungeons as being any kind of positive social thing

Jesus christ, when are people going to realize that public dungeons IS NOT THE SAME AS FIGHTING FOR RESOURCES.

All my memories of public dungeons are about people helping one another and talking and sharing, never once did I get griefed. I'm sorry that so many of you have this weird inability to understand that not all Pre WoW MMOs were identical to EverQuest.

I think anyone else that has ever played MMOs with public dungeons in a PVP environment would say that you got extremely lucky. While I found that to be a good part of my experience in UO, EVE, AC and several other MMOs with public dungeons, I also distinctly remember (fondly, for me, but not so much for some others) PK raids (UO), kill stealing of bosses (AC), ninja looting (EVE) and other such interactions that a lot of people found undesirable or at least far from 'helping and sharing'.

This view helps to explain a lot of your other posts in this thread.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19006

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/06/13 2:41:12 PM#67
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Kilrain

Without misery, how good can things feel? What do I mean? If you never experience grief, frustration, failure, pain, discomfort, etc, how do you measure just how good an accomplishment is. This is only one aspect to my anti-instancing opinion, but it's a good one for me. It helped me understand why it was that I liked games like EQ where you had to spawn camp, or try to steal that kill to get credit.

I just did a quest line last night in Pirate 101 with a couple other players where the main battles were all instanced. The number of mobs and their difficulty level was tailored to the size and level of our group members. Lots of fun travel together with plenty of challenging battles.

Oddly, despite the complete absence of anyone killstealing, ninja looting, PKing, blocking, griefing, tagging, training or creating any other sources of frustration or failure for our group, we all had a great time.

It didn't just feel good. It felt great.

I look forward to logging in tonight, meeting up with a couple people and having a similar experience. I am quite sure it will feel great tonight, too.

I hope that someday you can eventually experience the feeling of a good gaming session without needing misery to do so, so that such an experience is no longer a mystifying concept to you.

I was out RVRing with my guildmates on my DAOC freeshard and I managed to steal the killspam for about 6 kills, PK'd the heck out of some high realm rank Albs that ran up on our zerg, and did it again when they came back.  Afterwards I ran over to the Alb frontiers and gray ganked some lowbies who suddenly had a very bad evening.

Sometimes I'm on the receiving end of the same, and it's exactly the sort of game play I look for.  Hopefully one day you'll come to experience such and the concept will no longer be mystifying to you either. 

We game for different reasons.... 

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  monochrome19

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 322

11/06/13 2:55:41 PM#68
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by monochrome19
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by monochrome19
Wow... the "logic" some of you are using is so... idk if theres a word for it. Its just REALLY REALLY REALLY bad. Instancing does NOT destroy the community, nor does it make the world smaller (in most cases), and if your so uptight having a temporary invisible partition between you and uninvolved people kills your "immersion" its nobodies fault but your own. There are 100s of other reasons but my God you people are insatiable. Have a Snickers, your not yourself when your hungry.

You've obviously never played a noninstanced MMO. Those "uninvolved" people aren't uninvolved just because they aren't in your group. They may become a part of your group. You may talk to them, trade with them, rez them, clash with them. It's all a part of the social experience.

 

Theres a shit load of data and articles from decades of online games written by very VERY smart developers discussing exactly what leads towards community forming in games and what hurts it. Virtually everyone agrees instancing hurts, for reasons that have been clearly explained here by people with many years of MMO experience. You saying "nuh uh" isn't going to make that go away.

Would you like to know what TRULY kills community? DFs, RFs, Anything "Finders"!

Instancing does not stop you from socializing.

Yes, it does. How can you talk to people you can't see? How can you help other groups you can't see?

There's this thing called chat that was recently implemented... idk if you've heard of it but it allows you to talk to people no matter where you both are... so yeah... /sarcasm off

And if I'm in a dungeon I already have a group of friends/party members. I already have people to socialize with and cooperate with. There is no need for another group of people to be here to trivialize the experience.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4667

11/06/13 3:03:12 PM#69
Originally posted by monochrome19

There's this thing called chat that was recently implemented... idk if you've heard of it but it allows you to talk to people no matter where you both are... so yeah... /sarcasm off

And if I'm in a dungeon I already have a group of friends/party members. I already have people to socialize with and cooperate with. There is no need for another group of people to be here to trivialize the experience.

If you haven't noticed he's quite clearly stated that if at any time you are not talking to everyone in the game the whole community comes crashing down. ( ha, yes I exaggerated but it was implied )

You can't even have a private conversation with your friends, or the community is going to suffer.

 

Do you really want to argue with a guy that thinks a group of friends playing an mmo together is a bad thing ? Extreme views are rarely founded in rational beliefs.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/06/13 3:03:24 PM#70
Originally posted by monochrome19
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by monochrome19
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by monochrome19
Wow... the "logic" some of you are using is so... idk if theres a word for it. Its just REALLY REALLY REALLY bad. Instancing does NOT destroy the community, nor does it make the world smaller (in most cases), and if your so uptight having a temporary invisible partition between you and uninvolved people kills your "immersion" its nobodies fault but your own. There are 100s of other reasons but my God you people are insatiable. Have a Snickers, your not yourself when your hungry.

You've obviously never played a noninstanced MMO. Those "uninvolved" people aren't uninvolved just because they aren't in your group. They may become a part of your group. You may talk to them, trade with them, rez them, clash with them. It's all a part of the social experience.

 

Theres a shit load of data and articles from decades of online games written by very VERY smart developers discussing exactly what leads towards community forming in games and what hurts it. Virtually everyone agrees instancing hurts, for reasons that have been clearly explained here by people with many years of MMO experience. You saying "nuh uh" isn't going to make that go away.

Would you like to know what TRULY kills community? DFs, RFs, Anything "Finders"!

Instancing does not stop you from socializing.

Yes, it does. How can you talk to people you can't see? How can you help other groups you can't see?

There's this thing called chat that was recently implemented... idk if you've heard of it but it allows you to talk to people no matter where you both are... so yeah... /sarcasm off

And if I'm in a dungeon I already have a group of friends/party members. I already have people to socialize with and cooperate with. There is no need for another group of people to be here to trivialize the experience.

Ladies and gentlemen, I can offer no further proof beyond the postings of this person that instances destroy socializing and community. Everything he says just reinforces my point.

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/06/13 3:05:04 PM#71
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Voqar

IMO it comes down to grief.  Some people love it.  See any MMORPG PvP scenario.  If there are shared resources, like say, an open world dungeon with bosses that people can fight over, take from each other, camp, etc, there's an opportunity for grief, and some people love being able to inflict grief.

I don't see open world dungeons as being any kind of positive social thing

Jesus christ, when are people going to realize that public dungeons IS NOT THE SAME AS FIGHTING FOR RESOURCES.

All my memories of public dungeons are about people helping one another and talking and sharing, never once did I get griefed. I'm sorry that so many of you have this weird inability to understand that not all Pre WoW MMOs were identical to EverQuest.

I think anyone else that has ever played MMOs with public dungeons in a PVP environment would say that you got extremely lucky. While I found that to be a good part of my experience in UO, EVE, AC and several other MMOs with public dungeons, I also distinctly remember (fondly, for me, but not so much for some others) PK raids (UO), kill stealing of bosses (AC), ninja looting (EVE) and other such interactions that a lot of people found undesirable or at least far from 'helping and sharing'.

This view helps to explain a lot of your other posts in this thread.

I wasn't talking about PvP games, that's an entirely different bag. In PvP games, public dungeons are an absolute must, as they're PvP hotspots and sources of wars.

I was talking about PvE games with public dungeons.

  monochrome19

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 322

11/06/13 3:51:07 PM#72
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by monochrome19

There's this thing called chat that was recently implemented... idk if you've heard of it but it allows you to talk to people no matter where you both are... so yeah... /sarcasm off

And if I'm in a dungeon I already have a group of friends/party members. I already have people to socialize with and cooperate with. There is no need for another group of people to be here to trivialize the experience.

If you haven't noticed he's quite clearly stated that if at any time you are not talking to everyone in the game the whole community comes crashing down. ( ha, yes I exaggerated but it was implied )

You can't even have a private conversation with your friends, or the community is going to suffer.

 

Do you really want to argue with a guy that thinks a group of friends playing an mmo together is a bad thing ? Extreme views are rarely founded in rational beliefs.


Your right I suppose. There really is no point in arguing, especially with someone so illogically inclined.

  Metrobius

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/05
Posts: 93

11/06/13 4:17:48 PM#73
I think if the world of eqn is big enough, and the dungeons are randomly placed and hidden instead of being staticly placed corridors with a boss at the end, instancing won't serve a purpose since you'll have to search for a dungeon and actually explore it anyway. Under these circumstances, running into another group should be uncommon unless you're near a population center.
We don't know enough to tell yet though.
  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/06/13 4:35:09 PM#74
Originally posted by Metrobius
I think if the world of eqn is big enough, and the dungeons are randomly placed and hidden instead of being staticly placed corridors with a boss at the end, instancing won't serve a purpose since you'll have to search for a dungeon and actually explore it anyway. Under these circumstances, running into another group should be uncommon unless you're near a population center.
We don't know enough to tell yet though.

Running into other people in dungeons is half the fun. I hope there are some static ones that regularly have people in them.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12141

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/06/13 6:48:25 PM#75
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Kilrain

Without misery, how good can things feel? What do I mean? If you never experience grief, frustration, failure, pain, discomfort, etc, how do you measure just how good an accomplishment is. This is only one aspect to my anti-instancing opinion, but it's a good one for me. It helped me understand why it was that I liked games like EQ where you had to spawn camp, or try to steal that kill to get credit.

I just did a quest line last night in Pirate 101 with a couple other players where the main battles were all instanced. The number of mobs and their difficulty level was tailored to the size and level of our group members. Lots of fun travel together with plenty of challenging battles.

Oddly, despite the complete absence of anyone killstealing, ninja looting, PKing, blocking, griefing, tagging, training or creating any other sources of frustration or failure for our group, we all had a great time.

It didn't just feel good. It felt great.

I look forward to logging in tonight, meeting up with a couple people and having a similar experience. I am quite sure it will feel great tonight, too.

I hope that someday you can eventually experience the feeling of a good gaming session without needing misery to do so, so that such an experience is no longer a mystifying concept to you.

I was out RVRing with my guildmates on my DAOC freeshard and I managed to steal the killspam for about 6 kills, PK'd the heck out of some high realm rank Albs that ran up on our zerg, and did it again when they came back.  Afterwards I ran over to the Alb frontiers and gray ganked some lowbies who suddenly had a very bad evening.

Sometimes I'm on the receiving end of the same, and it's exactly the sort of game play I look for.  Hopefully one day you'll come to experience such and the concept will no longer be mystifying to you either. 

We game for different reasons.... 

 

Two things:

  1.  His first statement was that he could not see the other point of view, wondering how someone could enjoy that. I explained how. I did not say he was wrong for the gameplay he liked, nor did I suggest he should not like what he liked.
  2.  At no point did I say or imply that I was mystified by what he enjoyed. Actually, in my post right above yours, I not only said I was familiar with such gameplay but I had fond memories of it.

That said, despite your retort being poorly thought through, it was entertainingly written and humorous to read, and I mean that in a good way.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Stiler

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

11/06/13 11:42:56 PM#76

Instancing has its place in gaming, being used, as you said, for specific dungeons can GREATLY help the ability for the developers to tell a storyline and other things that would be broke if it wasn't instanced and people were just randomly coming in/out of it.

 

However instancing does have it's drawbacks, immersion breaking , a sense of disconnection, a loss of feeling in terms of a virtual "World."

 

My problem with instancing isn't when it's used for a specific dungeon to tell a storyline or do something that couldn't be done as well in a non-instanced dungeon.

 

My problem is that developers get lazy and they want to instance EVERYTHING.

 

One need only look at Everquest 2 for this, one of the WORST mmo's when it comes to using instances when they shouldn't of. Every bloody thing was instanced in this game. Housing, Zones, dungeons, EVERYTHING.

 

IT didn't feel like a world at all, rather like  a series of computer hubs tethered together and you had to constnatly switch instances to find friends, etc. IT drastically pulled you out of the immersive world and sense of adventure that EQ gave you because they simply used them so much and in every single facet of the game.

 

The overall "world" of an mmo, the cities, the zones, etc should NEVER be instanced in a game. Dungeons? HAve a mix, have some story-focused dungeons that you can do with a group and then have some open dungeons that anyone can go through without instancing. That to me is the best use of instancing.

 

Instancing has became the "CGI" of mmo's. It's good when you don't notice it and only used when it absolutely needs to be, but when it's overused and every single thing is CGI'd you notice it a lot and it draws you out of the experience (cause in point, Jurassic Park vs the Star Wars prequels). JP resorted to CGi only when it needed to, otherwise it was all done with animatronics (even the giant T-Rex attack scene on the jeep), Star Wars on the other hand was CGI CGI CGI galore.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1754

11/07/13 4:50:17 AM#77
Originally posted by swarmofseals

I've played a ton of MMOs in my day, with EQ1 being my first experience with the genre back in 1999 when the game was originally released. When WoW was released, one of the key features that got me interested was the idea of instanced dungeons. ....

One of the best inventions for mmo online playing.

I do get that instances break immersion, but for me having to metagame by joining an uberguild or camping a specific spot for hours on end waiting for a rare spawn also breaks immersion.

Does not break anything and will never understand those that think it does. Guess such people are not happy with anything (not only in games). No game or any1 can solve their problems.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1754

11/07/13 7:54:33 AM#78
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by daltanious
Originally posted by swarmofseals

I've played a ton of MMOs in my day, with EQ1 being my first experience with the genre back in 1999 when the game was originally released. When WoW was released, one of the key features that got me interested was the idea of instanced dungeons. ....

One of the best inventions for mmo online playing.

I do get that instances break immersion, but for me having to metagame by joining an uberguild or camping a specific spot for hours on end waiting for a rare spawn also breaks immersion.

Does not break anything and will never understand those that think it does. Guess such people are not happy with anything (not only in games). No game or any1 can solve their problems.

You have an entire thread of people clearly explaining why instancing is bad, but if you actually read any of it then you wouldn't be able to troll. So troll on you crazy diamond.

As you obviously never read explanations why instancing is actually GOOD. At least more good then bad. 

  fs23otm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/07
Posts: 259

11/07/13 8:14:07 AM#79

Those that say instancing is bad never had to compete for kills. Sucks when your guild needs X mob to advance, and guild Y comes in and kills it for the week. Thus halting your progression.

In addition, how about phone trees for mob spawns. it would be 3 am and people call you to tell you x mob is up and log on and get a raid together.

Now, I loved EQ back in the day. However, there have been advanced in design that makes game today better. 

IMHO, non-progression dungeon should be open like old EQ dungeons. However, progression kills should always be instanced.

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/07/13 8:18:14 AM#80
Originally posted by fs23otm

Those that say instancing is bad never had to compete for kills. Sucks when your guild needs X mob to advance, and guild Y comes in and kills it for the week. Thus halting your progression.

You're right, I never did, because I played a game that implemented dungeons and mobs and raids in a way that wasn't idiotic. Not that I really blame EverQuest, it was the first of its kind. But other games improved that design substantially.

 

The things people claim instancing is good for can be achieved through good game design instead of instancing. The thing public dungeons are good for cannot every be achieved with instancing.

 

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search