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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I think its over.

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415 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19811

11/05/13 8:13:20 PM#301
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by immodium
They should work on making early game challenging 20/40 man raids, make that part of the journey.


No thanks, for me. I have no interest in raiding, especially with the playerbase in today's MMOs.

 

That is just one aspect of a game. Would also like to see Crafting become a requirement to advancement, or Role Playing? How about PvP?

No thanks, for me. I have no interests in crafting, or RP, or pvp.

Good story instance content .. now that is for me.

 

  NorseGod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 574

11/05/13 8:13:35 PM#302
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by NorseGod
 

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Because the content is consumed?

The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.

Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.

You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.

 

MMORPGs are a hobby to a lot of people. You look at them as a tv show or going to the movies. Can't say that I respect your opinion about anything towards MMORPGs and what they were and what they should be, which is easy and free, according to you. Yes, we know, you remind us of that multiple times on a daily basis.

There was a time when there wasn't ever a problem such as "content consumed". People had fun playing their favorite game for years straight.

You cannot explain why. I wouldn't expect you to.

 

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4817

11/05/13 8:13:39 PM#303
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.

They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.

  Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?

The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?

Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.

No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?

My side..... I've never said anything like.....anything you have posted. Sorry I'm not the "side" you think you're arguing with. I'm the side that thinks games...all games, are far more successful than people on this forum think.

My side thinks 450k subs is very successful, so is having 450k people playing f2p. As long as the game is running and the devs are adding things to it, it's a success. When/if they shut it down, I go play something else.

My side also thinks that the future of gaming is something you play when it gets here not complain about what it might be now so you're ready to say I told you so when it actually does arrive.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2728

11/05/13 8:21:21 PM#304
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.

They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.

  Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?

The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?

Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.

No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?

My side..... I've never said anything like.....anything you have posted. Sorry I'm not the "side" you think you're arguing with. I'm the side that thinks games...all games, are far more successful than people on this forum think.

My side thinks 450k subs is very successful, so is having 450k people playing f2p. As long as the game is running and the devs are adding things to it, it's a success. When/if they shut it down, I go play something else.

My side also thinks that the future of gaming is something you play when it gets here not complain about what it might be now so you're ready to say I told you so when it actually does arrive.

  They're successful but not for good reasons.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3204

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

11/05/13 8:26:21 PM#305


Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by Neo_Viper

Originally posted by CobraMKIII I agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...
... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it. (/sarcasm)
 With many companies failing to please their audiences I wonder how long it will last. How many companies/studious have shut their doors to their games due to this "more popular than ever" statistics?


I often find myself wondering... How many of these new, pleased players actually desire RPG in their games. If I look at the impressive numbers, I seem to conclude, not many.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/05/13 8:28:24 PM#306
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

  They're successful but not for good reasons.

Make money and pay their staffs.

The only reason that matters.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  SuperDonk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 701

11/05/13 8:28:59 PM#307

There is not a single word of the OP that I disagree with.

 

MMO are no longer worlds full of danger to get lost in, they are kid-themed theme parks where everything is lazily handed to you.

 

I have rekindled my love of good single player games, sure they are more lonely, but at least a gem is released a couple times a year, it has been almost a decade since a truly great MMO was released.

I want to be Uncle Owen again.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15619

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/05/13 8:30:10 PM#308
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by Neo_Viper

Originally posted by CobraMKIII I agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...
... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it. (/sarcasm)
 With many companies failing to please their audiences I wonder how long it will last. How many companies/studious have shut their doors to their games due to this "more popular than ever" statistics?

I often find myself wondering... How many of these new, pleased players actually desire RPG in their games. If I look at the impressive numbers, I seem to conclude, not many.

 

Well you could also assume they like more than just RPG's, or like a different style of RPG, as there's more than one popular form of roleplaying game.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2728

11/05/13 8:31:09 PM#309
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by Neo_Viper

Originally posted by CobraMKIII I agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...
... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it. (/sarcasm)
 With many companies failing to please their audiences I wonder how long it will last. How many companies/studious have shut their doors to their games due to this "more popular than ever" statistics?

I often find myself wondering... How many of these new, pleased players actually desire RPG in their games. If I look at the impressive numbers, I seem to conclude, not many.

 

  These games pass quite nicely as to an Action game. But they lean more to games like God of War and Assassins Creed. Especially with the way developers are designing their games around action oriented play styles.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Instigator-Jones

Elite Member

Joined: 2/07/13
Posts: 423

11/05/13 8:31:38 PM#310
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.

They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.

  Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?

The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?

Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.

No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?

My side..... I've never said anything like.....anything you have posted. Sorry I'm not the "side" you think you're arguing with. I'm the side that thinks games...all games, are far more successful than people on this forum think.

My side thinks 450k subs is very successful, so is having 450k people playing f2p. As long as the game is running and the devs are adding things to it, it's a success. When/if they shut it down, I go play something else.

My side also thinks that the future of gaming is something you play when it gets here not complain about what it might be now so you're ready to say I told you so when it actually does arrive.

  They're successful but not for good reasons.

That makes absolutely no sense.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2728

11/05/13 8:36:01 PM#311
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

  They're successful but not for good reasons.

Make money and pay their staffs.

The only reason that matters.

  Not making your customers happy in the long run is the worst thing you can do for your company.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  NorseGod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 574

11/05/13 9:32:32 PM#312
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

  They're successful but not for good reasons.

Make money and pay their staffs.

The only reason that matters.

  Not making your customers happy in the long run is the worst thing you can do for your company.

Sadly, a decade ago, I dare say that most game devs didn't consider themselves as a "business" and gamers didn't consider themselves as "customers". It was like a club.

That was the best times I've ever had playing MMOs.

I think this was a time before Game Masters became in-game customer service.

The writing was on the wall and nobody saw it.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4817

11/05/13 9:35:17 PM#313
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

  They're successful but not for good reasons.

Make money and pay their staffs.

The only reason that matters.

  Not making your customers happy in the long run is the worst thing you can do for your company.

They make some customers happy....you just happen to be one of the ones they didn't.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  User Deleted
11/05/13 9:47:29 PM#314
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by CobraMKIII

I agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...

... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it.

(/sarcasm)

Quality, not quantity.

And who are you to define what "quality" is for other people?

Not to mention many forgot what messes the releases of UO, EQ and AC1 were... quality, yeah... what quality?

What's funny is that I've been playing MMORPGs since UO, and forums have always been the same... full of a minority of very vocal whiners who are never happy. You guys act like this only started recently, but you have long term memory problems if you really believe that.

I don't have to define what quality is for anyone. That was not my point and I made no value judgement about the quality of any game. I merely implied that just because a game has a lot of players, doesn't make it a good game. This was based on the person's post quoted in my response.

Hint: If you follow the entire thread, it's really easy to understand what is going on and what people are saying. Just a suggestion.

  User Deleted
11/05/13 9:53:03 PM#315
Originally posted by Icewhite

Doom.

Why are we still here?

Because people have a need to complain about things until their last dying breath.

If they can add blaming someone else for their disappointments, then...BONUS!

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15619

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/05/13 10:00:04 PM#316
Originally posted by NorseGod

Sadly, a decade ago, I dare say that most game devs didn't consider themselves as a "business" and gamers didn't consider themselves as "customers". It was like a club.

That was the best times I've ever had playing MMOs.

I think this was a time before Game Masters became in-game customer service.

The writing was on the wall and nobody saw it.

Richard Garriott sat down in a video interview a few years back and explained their mindset with UO. It was an experiment in whether such a game could become a business was his general explanation. They didn't think it would amount to much at all, as in their eyes they didn't create much of a game. They didn't expect players to create their own game in the way they did. Very interesting interview actually. If I find a link to it I'll post it. From there the industry grew into a business (in the west). I wouldn't be surprised if EQ was approached in the same manner by Verant (SOE) as well.

Most early games were an experiment in some shape or form, as the genre was in it's infancy at the time. For that reason alone it would be fitting to engage the players a bit more. Back then there were a lot more live events where GM's took the role of monsters or other baddies, there was a lot more forum engagement from the developers. It was a completely different atmosphere, coming from both sides.

It was also telling on what was sustainable from a business perspective. One thing that seemingly wasn't was the live teams of the time. It's a completely different beast today focusing almost exclusively on quality of life issues. Is that a surprise though? not for me. There has always been a  lot to deal with in that department.

So you're right in a sense. Yet I'd argue you can still find that around the genre, but it's mostly coming from indies and kickstarts like SC or CU.

 

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1768

11/05/13 10:00:15 PM#317
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by Icewhite

Doom.

Why are we still here?

Because people have a need to complain about things until their last dying breath.

If they can add blaming someone else for their disappointments, then...BONUS!

Haha, so true.  Sad,...but true

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/05/13 10:15:27 PM#318
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

  They're successful but not for good reasons.

Make money and pay their staffs.

The only reason that matters.

  Not making your customers happy in the long run is the worst thing you can do for your company.

They make some customers happy....you just happen to be one of the ones they didn't.

Exactly. But as long we're judging on artistic merit, while corporations are searching for something that makes money, we're never going to see the world exactly the same.

Welcome to the working world of commercial artists, every single damn day ever.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 10:16:18 PM#319
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by Icewhite

Doom.

Why are we still here?

Because people have a need to complain about things until their last dying breath.

If they can add blaming someone else for their disappointments, then...BONUS!

Haha, so true.  Sad,...but true

You guys only need one more for a circle.

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1086

11/05/13 10:23:04 PM#320

I actually like Virtual Worlds (though I think many game versions are less than spectacular).  It's also great for everyone to have a game style that they like to play.   The continual moaning about back in the old days when everything was 'good' does get a bit tedious though.   Boils down to 'the way I play is the best way' in way too many arguments.

 

It's fine to like a particular old school style, but to overlook the many problems, issues, and design screwups of these games is a bit disingenuous.   Tons of people quit these old games (or decided to not play them in the first place) because of these game issues.  

 

Perhaps there will be a upsurge of games with old school features.  Given that most MMO development takes 4-5 years, it is not the sort of thing that will show up overnight.  And if you all don't support those that do strongly, even if they have elements you don't particularly care for, they may fail.  It's a much more crowded game field right now.    The narrower your focus on what elements you consider acceptable, the less likely you are to find 'that' game. 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

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