Trending Games | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2 | WildStar | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,786,463 Users Online:0
Games:723  Posts:6,193,148
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » p2w doesn't exist in AAA mmo's, please stop pretending it does.

8 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Search
141 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

11/05/13 7:28:40 PM#101
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

  spizz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 2582

11/05/13 7:33:15 PM#102
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

I guess they rather talk about  F2P as a whole game and not about some kind of endless trial. It is just a trial but clever marketed as a "F2P" option. WoW is not a true F2P game...get real.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

11/05/13 7:37:59 PM#103
Originally posted by spizz
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

I guess they rather talk about  F2P as a whole game and not about some kind of endless trial. It is just a trial but clever marketed as a "F2P" option. WoW is not a true F2P game...get real.

That is just semantics. I cannot play certainly classes on LOTRO if i don't pay. I cannot use certain star ships on STO if i don't pay. So those are not whole games too?

It is just a matter of degree. In fact, WoW is *more* p2w than these games, because the difference between free (L20) and pay (L90) is HUGE. WoW is the worse p2w game.

 

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 7:39:20 PM#104
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

So you agree that p2w is found everywhere in f2p games then. At least one person is willing to acknowledge it. It's a start.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1506

11/05/13 7:48:47 PM#105

my own definition of P2W

 

by Da Skull

 

1) Items that progress one's character in a meaningful way that are not available without the item mall (in other words, the OP's Definition)

 

2) Class customization options that are BOTH (a) strictly superior to the ones offered at the basic level and (b) unavailable through non-paying means

 

3) the presence of a game mechanic that solely exists to have people go to the item shop to circumvent it (see also: allods online)

 

I agree with the OP (though not their tone).  "p2w" that people complain about is much more often "pay for convenience" than it is "pay to win".  but "p2w" is kind of a snarl word these days.  of course if a game's developers want to eliminate this term being bandied about their game they can simply charge a subscription for their game and have zero item shop.  Yanno, like these damn games used to be :)

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

  spizz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 2582

11/05/13 7:49:51 PM#106
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by spizz
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

I guess they rather talk about  F2P as a whole game and not about some kind of endless trial. It is just a trial but clever marketed as a "F2P" option. WoW is not a true F2P game...get real.

That is just semantics. I cannot play certainly classes on LOTRO if i don't pay. I cannot use certain star ships on STO if i don't pay. So those are not whole games too?

It is just a matter of degree. In fact, WoW is *more* p2w than these games, because the difference between free (L20) and pay (L90) is HUGE. WoW is the worse p2w game.

 

I  cant follow your logic. One game is a sub based mmorpg which is advertising with an endless trial and calling it "F2P" . Its a trial nothing more with the hope people will sub to the game after they reach lvl 20. The other games you are talking about offer a free to play model from the start and the whole game concept is based on it. WoW is not P2W its P2P, you have to pay a monthly sub if you want to enjoy it.....

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 7:55:27 PM#107

All sub game and box sales are pay to win. Everyone pays the same solves that problem.

Now, onto unsolved problems...

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Superman0X

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 956

11/05/13 7:58:27 PM#108
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

So you agree that p2w is found everywhere in f2p games then. At least one person is willing to acknowledge it. It's a start.

P2W is found in ALL commercial games. It is only the games that dont take any money that are not P2W. It is only hyporcrits that choose to suppose that the commercial games that THEY like are not P2W.... and that those that they do not, are....

 

Just like everything in life, things are best done in moderation. To much any good thing can make it a bad thing. Providing something for money is generally good (and the definition of P2W), but too much of this can be a problem.

 

Originally posted by FinalFikus

All sub game and box sales are pay to win. Everyone pays the same solves that problem.

Now, onto unsolved problems...

 

Everyone doesnt pay the same... or get the same thing, even in box sales. This is especially true with subs. What would be more accurate is this: "P2P is extremely P2W... but it is an accepted part of the industry, so there isnt any need to discuss the obvious."

 

 

  Mattatron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/13
Posts: 237

11/05/13 8:00:04 PM#109

P2W, the concept at heart, doesn't infer subscriptions.

 

If you're playing a game with a subscription model and you do not pay the subscription, you're not going to win at all because you won't be playing. (duh?).

 

If 2 people are playing WoW, and both are max level (so this presumes both pay sub), nothing either player can legitimately buy from the company is going to increase end-game performance. This is why WoW isn't P2W.

 

Definitions of all kinds of gaming terms over the last 30 years have changed because of newbie understanding rampant in forums like twitter. "Zerg" apparently now means "a lot of people" instead of "many insufficiently powered people hoping to win via sheer attrition". "Troll" means whatever the utterer wants it to mean, with the opposing viewpoint simply conflicting their own.

 

Now, if you argue otherwise, people experienced in the matter will "look at you" (consider you?) strangely, shake their heads and for at least the immediate future consider further expressions from you with "that much less validity". If you're comfortable with knowledgeable people thinking you're silly, keep doing what you're doing.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 8:07:26 PM#110
Originally posted by Superman0X
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

So you agree that p2w is found everywhere in f2p games then. At least one person is willing to acknowledge it. It's a start.

P2W is found in ALL commercial games. It is only the games that dont take any money that are not P2W. It is only hyporcrits that choose to suppose that the commercial games that THEY like are not P2W.... and that those that they do not, are....

 

Just like everything in life, things are best done in moderation. To much any good thing can make it a bad thing. Providing something for money is generally good (and the definition of P2W), but too much of this can be a problem.

 

Originally posted by FinalFikus

All sub game and box sales are pay to win. Everyone pays the same solves that problem.

Now, onto unsolved problems...

 

Everyone doesnt pay the same... or get the same thing, even in box sales. This is especially true with subs. What would be more accurate is this: "P2P is extremely P2W... but it is an accepted part of the industry, so there isnt any need to discuss the obvious."

 

 

There is a reason it is accepted.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 8:13:30 PM#111
Originally posted by Mattatron

P2W, the concept at heart, doesn't infer subscriptions.

 

If you're playing a game with a subscription model and you do not pay the subscription, you're not going to win at all because you won't be playing. (duh?).

 

If 2 people are playing WoW, and both are max level (so this presumes both pay sub), nothing either player can legitimately buy from the company is going to increase end-game performance. This is why WoW isn't P2W.

 

Definitions of all kinds of gaming terms over the last 30 years have changed because of newbie understanding rampant in forums like twitter. "Zerg" apparently now means "a lot of people" instead of "many insufficiently powered people hoping to win via sheer attrition". "Troll" means whatever the utterer wants it to mean, with the opposing viewpoint simply conflicting their own.

 

Now, if you argue otherwise, people experienced in the matter will "look at you" (consider you?) strangely, shake their heads and for at least the immediate future consider further expressions from you with "that much less validity". If you're comfortable with knowledgeable people thinking you're silly, keep doing what you're doing.

Yes we understand. Im not sure what your point is or if that last paragraph is supposed to mean something to someone, or who it's directed at, but the discussion is about p2w in free games still causing problems because it's not accepted by many.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

11/05/13 8:15:13 PM#112
Originally posted by spizz
WoW is not P2W its P2P, you have to pay a monthly sub if you want to enjoy it.....

No i don't. I can enjoy all the early level fun up to L20 paying absolutely nothing, not unlike i can enjoy 2 of the 28 or so heroes in Marvel Heroes for absolutely nothing.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

11/05/13 8:16:33 PM#113
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

So you agree that p2w is found everywhere in f2p games then. At least one person is willing to acknowledge it. It's a start.

Of course.

It is only fair that the whales, who subsidize the games, get to have some more power.

p2w is not a bad thing if it does not affect me in gameplay.

  Mattatron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/13
Posts: 237

11/05/13 8:22:12 PM#114
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by spizz
WoW is not P2W its P2P, you have to pay a monthly sub if you want to enjoy it.....

No i don't. I can enjoy all the early level fun up to L20 paying absolutely nothing...

 

That is a free trial, not a free-to-play game model. This is an example to which I referred in the last paragraph of my last post.

 

Additionally, TSW isn't f2p. It is b2p and still not p2w.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

11/05/13 8:28:55 PM#115
Originally posted by Mattatron
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by spizz
WoW is not P2W its P2P, you have to pay a monthly sub if you want to enjoy it.....

No i don't. I can enjoy all the early level fun up to L20 paying absolutely nothing...

 

That is a free trial, not a free-to-play game model. This is an example to which I referred in the last paragraph of my last post.

What is the difference? There is no trial period, you can go anywhere in the game, and just that you have less power. Sounds like F2P to me. It is exactly the same in STO .. less power, unlimited, and can go everywhere.

Heck, in fact, Blizz does not call it a trial. Blizz call it "The Starter Edition".

  Mattatron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/13
Posts: 237

11/05/13 8:34:01 PM#116
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mattatron
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by spizz
WoW is not P2W its P2P, you have to pay a monthly sub if you want to enjoy it.....

No i don't. I can enjoy all the early level fun up to L20 paying absolutely nothing...

 

That is a free trial, not a free-to-play game model. This is an example to which I referred in the last paragraph of my last post.

What is the difference? There is no trial period, you can go anywhere in the game, and just that you have less power. Sounds like F2P to me. It is exactly the same in STO .. less power, unlimited, and can go everywhere.

Heck, in fact, Blizz does not call it a trial. Blizz call it "The Starter Edition".

If you put my kid in front of it she'd call it "torture", as she doesn't like mmorpgs. Marketing people will call it whatever seems to gather interest and make the "classification" of such an account status seem more appealing.

It's a trial. I know it. You know it. You're arguing just to argue.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

11/05/13 8:37:10 PM#117
Originally posted by Mattatron
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mattatron
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by spizz
WoW is not P2W its P2P, you have to pay a monthly sub if you want to enjoy it.....

No i don't. I can enjoy all the early level fun up to L20 paying absolutely nothing...

 

That is a free trial, not a free-to-play game model. This is an example to which I referred in the last paragraph of my last post.

What is the difference? There is no trial period, you can go anywhere in the game, and just that you have less power. Sounds like F2P to me. It is exactly the same in STO .. less power, unlimited, and can go everywhere.

Heck, in fact, Blizz does not call it a trial. Blizz call it "The Starter Edition".

If you put my kid in front of it she'd call it "torture", as she doesn't like mmorpgs. Marketing people will call it whatever seems to gather interest and make the "classification" of such an account status seem more appealing.

It's a trial. I know it. You know it. You're arguing just to argue.

Lol .. you ran out of arguments and resort to "i say so"?

I know what .. i know the WoW starter edition is free .. right there on their website, and if you pay, you get more power. Which part of these facts you do not understand?

 

  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 455

11/05/13 8:43:30 PM#118

It's hard to draw the line between "convenience commodities" and "pay to win" when it comes to cash shops. I generally draw that line in a single, but wide concept: Items or perks that aid towards developing a character's maximum potential and offer an edge in competitive game-play. If they are obtainable only through real cash it's pay to win. In some cases, if those items are also obtainable through game-play, but require an indecent amount of time, I'll also consider it pay-to-win. 

 

To me, the best example of what just crosses the line and is pay to win is found in Guild Wars 2, and more specifically, WvW. While it would seem that everyone fight fairly, it's been proven time and time again that the team that invests most real cash into bringing a myriad of generals or siege golems to the battlefield has a clear edge. These devices can be obtained through regular game-play, but it takes hours upon hours of farming to gather enough resources to build one, let alone 15 or 20 as you can see in some screenshots floating around. In that case, the team that pays real cash wins.

 

You can still get the golems if you forfeit your social life, work, girlfriend and sleep to save up resources for a month, then you can use 20 siege golems in a single WvW battle, but the amount of time required is indecent, and you can not do it every day, as someone who pays real cash can do.

 

Anything softer than that, to me is not Pay to Win. For example, XP potions, PvP point boosts, or buyable leveling gear are fine to me. What I really care about is at competitive level, when we are all at the apex of character progress and someone can get the edge over someone else because he's willing to spend real currency.

 

As everything, this is subjective and each person will find a different place to draw the Pay-to-Win line. This is, I guess, why developers have so hard time bringing a real working Free-to-Play model, and none has yet fully succeeded  (bar LoL, which is not a mmo). I'm hoping Ever Quest Next will manage, though, but I'm not holding those hopes too high either.

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  Mattatron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/13
Posts: 237

11/05/13 8:44:07 PM#119
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mattatron
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mattatron
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by spizz
WoW is not P2W its P2P, you have to pay a monthly sub if you want to enjoy it.....

No i don't. I can enjoy all the early level fun up to L20 paying absolutely nothing...

 

That is a free trial, not a free-to-play game model. This is an example to which I referred in the last paragraph of my last post.

What is the difference? There is no trial period, you can go anywhere in the game, and just that you have less power. Sounds like F2P to me. It is exactly the same in STO .. less power, unlimited, and can go everywhere.

Heck, in fact, Blizz does not call it a trial. Blizz call it "The Starter Edition".

If you put my kid in front of it she'd call it "torture", as she doesn't like mmorpgs. Marketing people will call it whatever seems to gather interest and make the "classification" of such an account status seem more appealing.

It's a trial. I know it. You know it. You're arguing just to argue.

Lol .. you ran out of arguments and resort to "i say so"?

I know what .. i know the WoW starter edition is free .. right there on their website, and if you pay, you get more power. Which part of these facts you do not understand?

 

If, because I am relaying to you common sense, this equates to "because I say so", then yes.

 

edit: Because you're not arguing something empirical to some philosophical degree. It's like I am pointing to a chair, saying "that is a chair" and you are saying "but what if it's not really a chair". I guess as opposed to "chair" it's many things, but for the purpose of semantics we have a shared understanding of "chair", so when I say "sit on that chair", you don't sit on the dirty floor.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 8:46:10 PM#120
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

Of course it is.

The free version of WoW let you level up to 20.

You have to pay to level to L90.

Last time i check, L90 has more power than L20. So it is p2w by the definition of many here.

 

So you agree that p2w is found everywhere in f2p games then. At least one person is willing to acknowledge it. It's a start.

Of course.

It is only fair that the whales, who subsidize the games, get to have some more power.

p2w is not a bad thing if it does not affect me in gameplay.

Some people want an even as possible playing field in any game, that's just as valid as your wants and interests.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

8 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Search