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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I think its over.

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415 posts found
  Tibernicuspa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 882

11/05/13 7:08:43 PM#281
Originally posted by Distopia

What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.

Because many of us were here back when MMOs were some of the hardest and most engaging MMOs around, and we want that again.

 

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 7:12:24 PM#282
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Distopia

Another example would be SWG's CU and NGE.

Do you think player complaining had anything to do with that ? Or was that all from the devs side of things and wanting more subs.

Common sense tells you that people wont sub to a game if the owners have no respect for their customers. Wanting more subs and wanting an entirely different player base are perceived differently.  The hubris alone told people to stay even farther away.  The EQ type player were the ones telling them diku starwars would be pure win. Wonder what they say now? I wonder why devs still listen?

That's the common sense side. The business side is probably too complex for us to understand their reasoning.

Or we can take the marketers words..."much too much reading..." lol.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 774

11/05/13 7:13:00 PM#283
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.

They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.

  Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14408

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/05/13 7:14:26 PM#284
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Distopia

What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.

Because many of us were here back when MMOs were some of the hardest and most engaging MMOs around, and we want that again.

 

I was there as well, but do you really believe those days are coming back? Star Citizen looks pretty deep and engaging. A few indie MMO's look promising, if they can overcome indies biggest hurdle (quality of gameplay). Yet as far as a straight up resurgence of the old from AAA studios? I just don't see it happening.

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  tuscarora

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 53

11/05/13 7:16:21 PM#285

I agree with the OP. 

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

11/05/13 7:17:45 PM#286
Originally posted by NorseGod
 

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Because the content is consumed?

The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.

Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.

You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.

 

  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 3664

11/05/13 7:20:33 PM#287
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by DamonVile

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?

I couldn't even guess at it's real population. I saw it was number 6 in korea ( which means nothing really )

And if I understand your question, I don't see why it couldn't work. I think game makers will be better off once they start going for niche groups rather than mass market. Tera to me is a success. Apparently bluehole agrees because they've said they're making a part 2.

What really needs to change most is the perception that if it didn't kill wow it's not worth playing.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 7:22:14 PM#288
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Distopia

What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.

Because many of us were here back when MMOs were some of the hardest and most engaging MMOs around, and we want that again.

 

I was there as well, but do you really believe those days are coming back? Star Citizen looks pretty deep and engaging. A few indie MMO's look promising, if they can overcome indies biggest hurdle (quality of gameplay). Yet as far as a straight up resurgence of the old from AAA studios? I just don't see it happening.

 

 

On other platforms it happens.

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 7:29:32 PM#289
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by NorseGod
 

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Because the content is consumed?

The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.

Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.

You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.

 

Others are looking for long term entertainment from an entertainment service. They have and are willing to spend a large amount of money for many years.

They aren't looking for themeparks to entertain them. They are looking to play in a fictional world. Neither is better. Both play for years. It's up to companies to decide what they want.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

11/05/13 7:32:41 PM#290
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by NorseGod
 

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Because the content is consumed?

The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.

Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.

You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.

 

Others are looking for long term entertainment from an entertainment service. They have and are willing to spend a large amount of money for many years.

They aren't looking for themeparks to entertain them. They are looking to play in a fictional world. Neither is better. Both play for years. It's up to companies to decide what they want.

So? The answer for NorseGod who does not understand why "they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all" still applies.

Whether there are others looking for long term stuff is irrelevant to why some good entertainment is short.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2246

11/05/13 7:32:45 PM#291
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.

  Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.

Some people actually like gear treadmills, hell look how popular Diablo or POE is. What else are those games about other than slashing and collecting?

The guy above is forgetting one thing. In most of those cases, people play until they run out of content. SO it's not a matter of not liking what's there. It's a matter of there not being enough of it there.

 Well hold on there, lets talk about why Diablo1-2 and PoE are such good games. They allow the players to always strive and progress for more. Not only by gear but by leveling as well. This also allows the player to always have something to come back to. For example, you needed gear and levels to get all the way through hell and experience the final fights such as the Uber bosses.

 You couldn't simply hit level 99 in these games within a single week and I can safely say most players never hit 99 on their characters.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Kopogero

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/27/09
Posts: 495

11/05/13 7:43:43 PM#292
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by NorseGod
 

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Because the content is consumed?

The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.

Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.

You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.

 

Quality matters over duration only in single player games. MMORPG's are all about long term goals, bigger picture, character development for something else ahead, etc.

Every themepark MMORPG thats designed all about content is doomed to fail. As long as developers want to be in charge and control the world/setting over giving the player the tools/freedom to do what he wants in their own game,making new quests or being the "boss" everyone would want to PvP for loot/reward is a doomed game.

Fact is there are too many sore losers out there who can't handle losing and penalty for mistakes, which the term instant gratification and catering to casuals comes into play. A casual does not have place to ask for BALANCE or fairness. Same rule applies to real life, which is why life functions perfectly.

Players need to accept being owned just as they are in real life and learn how to take orders and rules by others who are above them. There can be a great experience in a huge, virtual world for even the peasant professions like begger, farmer and merchant. All can't demand to be kings, emperors, rulers...off the bat.

Themeparks are just another version of single player games where the only difference is "I can play that game with others". Themeparks existed in the arcade and on my Nintendo 22+ years ago. Only difference between those games and todays themeparks is that I can play the game with more than 1 friend....

 

Starcraft aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2246

11/05/13 7:50:14 PM#293
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Distopia

What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.

Because many of us were here back when MMOs were some of the hardest and most engaging MMOs around, and we want that again.

 

I was there as well, but do you really believe those days are coming back? Star Citizen looks pretty deep and engaging. A few indie MMO's look promising, if they can overcome indies biggest hurdle (quality of gameplay). Yet as far as a straight up resurgence of the old from AAA studios? I just don't see it happening.

 

 

  That's why many of us hate the way these games are going they're over all less appealing in every aspect in comparison to their older counterparts.

 Sure the grind was "tedious" but that's what made these games popular to begin with. Now companies remove the grind and just stream-line to the end. There's no achievement in these games, everyone's a winner, and every has the same gear. Sure you might of had to spend 5-10 hours farming for some of the most epic pieces of gear as you were leveling. But it was actually worth it when you actually obtained that said item. I can't say I have the same feeling with newer games.

Today, these games are simply completed within the first month of their release. These new titles can't properly handle the rate in which people are finishing them (a major design flaw with modern MMOs). So in turn they don't have enough time to produce new content which in turn causes the game to "fail". Due to the fact that they don't properly retain a large enough audience the development of the game is dropped for a new product and the cycle being a new.

 If you watch the rate at which these games are being produced and abandoned you'll realize that these games are extremely shallow and are only created for short term bursts of money. Companies simply don't care about creating additional content. After the first 3-4 months those games will be barren because there's nothing that appeals to the players who actually are willing to stay for long periods of time.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 852

11/05/13 7:55:35 PM#294
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by DamonVile

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?

I couldn't even guess at it's real population. I saw it was number 6 in korea ( which means nothing really )

And if I understand your question, I don't see why it couldn't work. I think game makers will be better off once they start going for niche groups rather than mass market. Tera to me is a success. Apparently bluehole agrees because they've said they're making a part 2.

What really needs to change most is the perception that if it didn't kill wow it's not worth playing.

 

I think that he's saying that individually many of the new "mainstream" games are really niche as old school like.

  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 558

11/05/13 8:01:39 PM#295
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.

They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.

  Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?

The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?

Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.

No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 774

11/05/13 8:07:26 PM#296
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by xeniar
Originally posted by DamonVile

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?

I couldn't even guess at it's real population. I saw it was number 6 in korea ( which means nothing really )

And if I understand your question, I don't see why it couldn't work. I think game makers will be better off once they start going for niche groups rather than mass market. Tera to me is a success. Apparently bluehole agrees because they've said they're making a part 2.

What really needs to change most is the perception that if it didn't kill wow it's not worth playing.

 

I think that he's saying that individually many of the new "mainstream" games are really niche as old school like.

Yeah if you look at populations in all the new mo's they are really low. So low you might aswell call them niche.

Now alot of us guys here want a MMO with old standards. Quite posible a number as as big enough as those new type (niche) mmo's out there. 

and its quite possible that that number would be greater. Alot of people (myself included) pretty much try any mmo comming out. Because reaching endgame (if there is any) is a long tought journey who knows all those content locust might even like it. cant say they run trough content too fast.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2246

11/05/13 8:08:03 PM#297
Originally posted by Kopogero
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by NorseGod
 

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Because the content is consumed?

The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.

Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.

You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.

 

Quality matters over duration only in single player games. MMORPG's are all about long term goals, bigger picture, character development for something else ahead, etc.

Every themepark MMORPG thats designed all about content is doomed to fail. As long as developers want to be in charge and control the world/setting over giving the player the tools/freedom to do what he wants in their own game,making new quests or being the "boss" everyone would want to PvP for loot/reward is a doomed game.

Fact is there are too many sore losers out there who can't handle losing and penalty for mistakes, which the term instant gratification and catering to casuals comes into play. A casual does not have place to ask for BALANCE or fairness. Same rule applies to real life, which is why life functions perfectly.

Players need to accept being owned just as they are in real life and learn how to take orders and rules by others who are above them. There can be a great experience in a huge, virtual world for even the peasant professions like begger, farmer and merchant. All can't demand to be kings, emperors, rulers...off the bat.

Themeparks are just another version of single player games where the only difference is "I can play that game with others". Themeparks existed in the arcade and on my Nintendo 22+ years ago. Only difference between those games and todays themeparks is that I can play the game with more than 1 friend....

 

 Well hold on, Themepark games are able to survive but the longevity must be in place like you stated. This is why older games like Everquest can have 19? expansions. They had plenty of grind in between the content releases. This is why new games fail to survive the test of time.

 Companies who copy World of Warcraft will fail. Blizzard got lucky with World of Warcraft simple as that. The game was a mix of both worlds. plenty of grind which took quite a while for players to level and easy enough for newcomers. The game lasted long enough for a new expansion which made is easier for casuals to progress. Which allowed for even more casual players to enter their game. This has been the case for every single expansion in their game. Unfortunately new games follow what World of Warcraft is now. Not what it once was.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/05/13 8:09:20 PM#298

Doom.

Why are we still here?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2246

11/05/13 8:09:35 PM#299
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.

They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.

  Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.

But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.

Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.

I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played

but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.

The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?

The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?

Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.

No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?

  Lol funny, but true.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2744

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

11/05/13 8:11:25 PM#300


Originally posted by immodium
They should work on making early game challenging 20/40 man raids, make that part of the journey.

No thanks, for me. I have no interest in raiding, especially with the playerbase in today's MMOs.

That is just one aspect of a game. Would also like to see Crafting become a requirement to advancement, or Role Playing? How about PvP?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

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