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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I think its over.

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415 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

11/05/13 2:58:34 PM#241
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by iJustWant

This really is about getting older. The things that entertain you so thoroughly when you're 15 just don't have the same punch when you're 45.

 

Not in this case. My interest in MMOs has not changed. The MMOs have.

I had a blast playing EQ's classic server. It was amazing, how many fresh ideas were there that I haven't seen in MMOs in 10 years.

Those ideas were there 14 years ago. By definition, they are not fresh.

Instances, LFD, LFR are more "fresh", by definition than whatever in the classical EQ.

And yes MMOs have changed, just like any other genre. You don't like the way it is going ... do not mean that others do not.

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 594

11/05/13 2:58:56 PM#242
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by donpopuki
I have no problem people voicing their wants and wishes. The line is crossed when "x" isn't in the game then the game is made for "the lowest common denominator" and "these kids want everything handed to them nowadays". Whether someone likes a game or not isn't a true reflection of the value of the person. The toxicity of all this is spilling over into real life when devs get death threats. Call me a hypocrite all you want but just because I see the toxic behavior and call a spade a spade doesn't invalidate the observation.

I agree about the kiddies part but how is it any less toxic to essential tell the whiner to take his ball home if he doesn't like the genre?    That attitude is just as much part of the negativity towards differing opinions. 

 

 

Quite simple really. When is it justfiied to use force? Normally when protecting someone from an unwarranted aggression. Is it ok to be intolerant of intolerance?  My beef is with those that attack others for simply liking games they don't like and heaping all sorts of vile associations upon them. They are called stupid, lazy, carebear and the source that is wrong with the world (at least in the mmo world). Devs are demonized and corporations have become the devil incarnate. Such dehumanizations has had an impact on the community due to the echo chamber effect on these forums. All this hate and death threats  all because some dev didn't make a new game exactly to their specification? How ridiculous does the behavior have to be before it merits ridicule?

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1000

11/05/13 3:15:52 PM#243
Originally posted by donpopuki
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by donpopuki
I have no problem people voicing their wants and wishes. The line is crossed when "x" isn't in the game then the game is made for "the lowest common denominator" and "these kids want everything handed to them nowadays". Whether someone likes a game or not isn't a true reflection of the value of the person. The toxicity of all this is spilling over into real life when devs get death threats. Call me a hypocrite all you want but just because I see the toxic behavior and call a spade a spade doesn't invalidate the observation.

I agree about the kiddies part but how is it any less toxic to essential tell the whiner to take his ball home if he doesn't like the genre?    That attitude is just as much part of the negativity towards differing opinions. 

 

 

Quite simple really. When is it justfiied to use force? Normally when protecting someone from an unwarranted aggression. Is it ok to be intolerant of intolerance?  My beef is with those that attack others for simply liking games they don't like and heaping all sorts of vile associations upon them. They are called stupid, lazy, carebear and the source that is wrong with the world (at least in the mmo world). Devs are demonized and corporations have become the devil incarnate. Such dehumanizations has had an impact on the community due to the echo chamber effect on these forums. All this hate and death threats  all because some dev didn't make a new game exactly to their specification? How ridiculous does the behavior have to be before it merits ridicule?

Again you are doing the same thing.  If your are not being positive or at least confronting the subject matter and not the poster you are just adding to it.  Being on a high horse looking down and genralizing people is no different.  Many others not happy with the genre are lumped into your rhetoric.  And in that case you are not happy it looks silly that you are not taking your own advice and quitting the genre/forums/whatever.

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 594

11/05/13 3:20:44 PM#244
So if someone is acting like a name calling jerk and I say "hey quit acting like a name calling jerk" then I'm just as guilty? Sorry I disagree.
  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1000

11/05/13 3:31:39 PM#245
Originally posted by donpopuki
So if someone is acting like a name calling jerk and I say "hey quit acting like a name calling jerk" then I'm just as guilty? Sorry I disagree.

Its more like you made a similar broad sweeping hypocritical atttack on the OP and anyone else dissatisfied and that they should grow up, quit and face reality. 

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 594

11/05/13 3:36:10 PM#246
So you are condoning the childish whining?
  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1000

11/05/13 3:56:27 PM#247

"Im honestly tired.

Tired of trying.

Tired of searching.

Tired of gimmicks and false advertisement.

Tired of rude communities.

Tired of lazy and/or scamming developers. (usually both)

Maybe im just getting old. What happened to the addictiveness, the spark, the magic, the difficulty and the competition. Every single game is the exact same bullshit. They are all one month wonders with zero longevity designed for someone with the intelligence of a gnat overpopulated with people that think they are genious. What the hell happened? I remember 10-12 years ago just day dreaming on what was ahead and what this genre would become. I remember wondering how amazed we would all be. I remember wondering about how amazing the virtual worlds would be that we would all explore. I remember real difficulty and the penalties if you died or failed. The comraderie and teamwork. I remember real communities. Real friendships and relationships that carried over off the screen. Now its just a huge cesspool no matter what game you enter its total rudeness and hate.

We should be treated with more respect. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on games and keeping our systems up to spec to stay on top and its all just full of regret now. Total waste of time and money. Tell me a game thats worth the time and i will explain how ive played it and the problems it has.

I work 40-60 hours per week, i take very, very good care of my family but i still have the night. I mostly drink beer, read forums and wonder what the fuck happened.

Sorry for the rant."

 

Childish whining is an opinion and pretty much an insult.    I agree with most of what he said except that its an admitted rant.   You've yet to really explain what's really childish or even what's really toxic to compare to death threats. 

 

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 5:13:59 PM#248
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I'll tell you why I think he speaks for a majority of gamers because game revenues, especially online game revenues keep increasing year to year. The people happier with gaming are playing and paying and the number of people playing are increasing. This report here: http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/ supports my claim and his.

Do you have any facts at all to support what you claim or are you basing it all, like most of the disgruntled here, on your wishes. You wish that what you feel is true so you keep saying it and then start believing it to be truth. Sorry but facts don't support you. Back in the day, that same old school day you're all pining for, gamers had to support their claims with facts or they were called on the carpet. You want oldschool? Here it is. Put up some facts.

The article says the number of games is outpacing growth of consumers. Your link doesn't back up anything.

Are you being willfully obtuse or are you one of "those" who ignores facts when they're presented. There was a revenue increase indicated on the page. There are other links on the site which show this. This for example (it has pretty pictures): http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/global-games-market-report-infographics/

I'm post the picture to the link below so no one can get confused. You only need to read the top graph. The bars keep getting bigger over time which means more money is being made. The bar for 2012 (at $66.3Bn) is smaller than the bar for 2013 (at $70.4Bn). The unit "Bn" means billion which is a thousand million. Overall gaming is going to grow. It isn't over.

This part is really tricky because there are multiple platform delivery methods here. MMOs get their own platform and they are increasing their portion of the total revenue stream over time. That's right, the mmo gaming segment is increasing.

 

Why did you ignore what I posted.

Revenue has increased for mmo's.  Who is saying it didn't? Please link the list of mmo's included, total employment, other means of generating revenue (ads, selling personal info ect..), trends in licensing and technology, foreign releases of current games and any other related info so we can discuss something.

The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted. Do you think that has any correlation to why and what the other poster said he sees going on?

I AM being willfully obtuse, I also am one of those who "ignores" "facts". I prefer open books and third party audits myself.

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

11/05/13 5:42:24 PM#249
Originally posted by FinalFikus

The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted.

 

Great. Consumers have more choices, at least until (if there ever going to be) a collapse.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 5:49:12 PM#250
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by FinalFikus

The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted.

 

Great. Consumers have more choices, at least until (if there ever going to be) a collapse.

Exactly. More choices. Consume content and move to next game. Also more competition than a company can stay ahead of. If you are a free player, or a PVE player the Industry is bent over for you currently.

Just be sure you acknowledge revenue among unnamed mmo's is rising.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Tibernicuspa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/05/13 5:52:59 PM#251
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by FinalFikus

The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted.

 

Great. Consumers have more choices, at least until (if there ever going to be) a collapse.

No we don't, because all the games coming out are the same.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2501

11/05/13 6:02:22 PM#252
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by jpnz

I don't know about you,  I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.

How do you know that you are "most"?

Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?

Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?

 It's fine, he's clueless.

As for your second statement. I can easily put the blame on the developer it's not our fault the content is too easy or extremely short. I place all these issues on the people developing the games.

I can agree with that.

But, those people are the loudest. They create an illusion that they are the majority. They get all of the attention. Then, when they get what they want, they don't even stick around, they move on to the next upcoming game to dumb-down and destroy.

If I were to fully blame devs, it would be because they didn't pick up on this behavior years ago.

I wonder how many MMOS out there right now would kill for 450K dedicated, concurrent, paying players? How many of those were originally aiming for millions? Suddenly, EQ numbers in it's prime, doesn't look that bad after all. But then again, it was a real MMORPG and now considered "icky".

 

 

 

  I couldn't have said it any better. Unfortunately I think we will have to wait for the "death of games" (which I don't see happening any time soon) for us to have a chance at getting a proper MMO.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15344

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/05/13 6:03:51 PM#253
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by jpnz

I don't know about you,  I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.

How do you know that you are "most"?

Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?

Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?

 It's fine, he's clueless.

As for your second statement. I can easily put the blame on the developer it's not our fault the content is too easy or extremely short. I place all these issues on the people developing the games.

I'm clueless because i see a spade for a spade? I know what type of games I like I don't think a gimmick is going to remedy the issues I have with these games, yet folks keep talking about how we're all being tricked, in that it would seem to take one to know one. So please explain what I am clueless about, or are you just blowing hot air because I said something that hit deep?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 6:03:54 PM#254
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by FinalFikus

The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted.

 

Great. Consumers have more choices, at least until (if there ever going to be) a collapse.

No we don't, because all the games coming out are the same.

Diku fantasy and Diku fantasy and Diku fantasy and Diku sci-fi and Diku fantasy are totally different games that people have to figure out how to play each one.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15344

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/05/13 6:13:27 PM#255
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by jpnz

I don't know about you,  I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.

How do you know that you are "most"?

Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?

Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?

 It's fine, he's clueless.

As for your second statement. I can easily put the blame on the developer it's not our fault the content is too easy or extremely short. I place all these issues on the people developing the games.

I can agree with that.

But, those people are the loudest. They create an illusion that they are the majority. They get all of the attention. Then, when they get what they want, they don't even stick around, they move on to the next upcoming game to dumb-down and destroy.

If I were to fully blame devs, it would be because they didn't pick up on this behavior years ago.

I wonder how many MMOS out there right now would kill for 450K dedicated, concurrent, paying players? How many of those were originally aiming for millions? Suddenly, EQ numbers in it's prime, doesn't look that bad after all. But then again, it was a real MMORPG and now considered "icky".

 

 

 

What people? People who have all but moved on from buying theme-parks? That's what group I'd belong to, if I do buy one it's to play the only way they can be played (for me) a co-op run through and done . I have no hope they will fill the void missing in the MMO genre. I know it will be nothing more than any other themepark to come along before it . That has been evident since WOW hit it's crazed peak years ago.

I have no hope for a new SWG or UO, unless it's from some indy company that can't put the development in needed to be of that same quality. Yet I'm the clueless one?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2501

11/05/13 6:20:49 PM#256
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by CobraMKIII

I agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...

... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it.

(/sarcasm)

 With many companies failing to please their audiences I wonder how long it will last. How many companies/studious have shut their doors to their games due to this "more popular than ever" statistics?

 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15344

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/05/13 6:21:47 PM#257
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by CobraMKIII

I agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...

... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it.

(/sarcasm)

 With many companies failing to please their audiences I wonder how long it will last. How many companies/studious have shut their doors to their games due to this "more popular than ever" statistics?

 

Not many actually...

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2501

11/05/13 6:23:05 PM#258
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by deniter

Almost everyone has an access to internet in western countries these days. That means you can mass produce shite and it will sell nonetheless.

Those selected few who had a broadband connection in late 90's or very early 2000's (i wasn't one of them) and were able to play UO, AC, etc. can tell the difference. The others probably have no clue and are willing to take whatever crap these companies will produce, and take it as a second coming of Jesus Christ when a new, shiny and more convenient MMO comes out.

Quality, most definitely > quantity.

The funny part is there was still a large amount of complaining about those games back then. Forums really looked no different. SWG is a perfect example actually. As it had just as fast of a decline as any game would today if not faster.

Quality is a subjective quantifier, there's no more truth in those who were calling old games shite, than there is in those calling the current crop shite.

 These complaints must be after they butchered their products not before ;)


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15344

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/05/13 6:26:52 PM#259
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by deniter

Almost everyone has an access to internet in western countries these days. That means you can mass produce shite and it will sell nonetheless.

Those selected few who had a broadband connection in late 90's or very early 2000's (i wasn't one of them) and were able to play UO, AC, etc. can tell the difference. The others probably have no clue and are willing to take whatever crap these companies will produce, and take it as a second coming of Jesus Christ when a new, shiny and more convenient MMO comes out.

Quality, most definitely > quantity.

The funny part is there was still a large amount of complaining about those games back then. Forums really looked no different. SWG is a perfect example actually. As it had just as fast of a decline as any game would today if not faster.

Quality is a subjective quantifier, there's no more truth in those who were calling old games shite, than there is in those calling the current crop shite.

 These complaints must be after they butchered their products not before ;)

In most cases it was all that complaining that resulted in those changes.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2501

11/05/13 6:29:39 PM#260
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by CobraMKIII

I agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...

... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it.

(/sarcasm)

Quality, not quantity.

And who are you to define what "quality" is for other people?

Not to mention many forgot what messes the releases of UO, EQ and AC1 were... quality, yeah... what quality?

What's funny is that I've been playing MMORPGs since UO, and forums have always been the same... full of a minority of very vocal whiners who are never happy. You guys act like this only started recently, but you have long term memory problems if you really believe that.

 

Originally posted by donpopuki
I have no problem people voicing their wants and wishes. The line is crossed when "x" isn't in the game then the game is made for "the lowest common denominator" and "these kids want everything handed to them nowadays". Whether someone likes a game or not isn't a true reflection of the value of the person. The toxicity of all this is spilling over into real life when devs get death threats. Call me a hypocrite all you want but just because I see the toxic behavior and call a spade a spade doesn't invalidate the observation.

Well said!

 I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

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