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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Your favorite dungeoncrawl mmo ?

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87 posts found
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12118

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/05/13 10:41:36 AM#61
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.

AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.

But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.

THANK. GOD.   

AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.

Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.

This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.

I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.

The difference is in the rewards and the design of the content. One game has 'trash mobs' and drops so rare that raiders have extensive spreadsheets and online apps to manage who can or should get a particular item if/when it drops. In AC1, UO and other games with public dungeons, the dungeon is about fighting monsters and not about avoiding whatever you can until you get to the big thing at the end with the gear you almost need to have if you want to join your guild in successive dungeons. 

But to stay on the specific boss point, you can drop almost any boss inAC with a mixed group. Many you can do solo with enough perseverance. In WOW, there are rage attacks and regen levels designed into each boss to prevent most anything outside the proper group set up to beat it. Basically, I don't think anyone in AC ever said "We're all archers? Forget it, can't be done," whereas WOW bosses are designed specifically to make sure such a scenario is extremely difficult or utterly impossible. (cue the post from the guy that's too stupid to know the difference between 'exception' and 'rule').

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

11/05/13 10:46:20 AM#62
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.

AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.

But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.

THANK. GOD.   

AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.

Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.

This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.

I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.

The difference is in the rewards and the design of the content. One game has 'trash mobs' and drops so rare that raiders have extensive spreadsheets and online apps to manage who can or should get a particular item if/when it drops. In AC1, UO and other games with public dungeons, the dungeon is about fighting monsters and not about avoiding whatever you can until you get to the big thing at the end with the gear you almost need to have if you want to join your guild in successive dungeons. 

Erm, sorry Lokto... you usually make a lot of sense in those otherwise senseless waters, but here...

I remember patch days in AC1. It was all about getting to the newest boss mob down the latest dungeon and doing as much damage as possible to beat everyone else and reap the rewards. I know the pain as a melee character before they added "rending" weapons. I also remember people "ninjaing" Aerfalle quests other had provided the materials for and started, by camping the relic city and going into the portal.

Sorry if I don't have those "rose colored glasses" anymore and if I remember games like they were, and not like they were supposed to be. Don't get me wrong, those games were great... but not even remotely close to be as perfect as people try to make you believe they were here.

My computer is better than yours.

  DeathWolf2u

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/04/04
Posts: 297

A new year let's hope for new games that don't suck.

11/05/13 10:50:51 AM#63

Well call me old.....but when you say dungeon crawl it brings back memories of the old 'Might & Magic' games. I am currently debating on buying 'Wizardry 8' as it looks like the best option for a great dungeon crawl game plus everyone that has played it gave it top reviews.

 

For anyone that likes some of the older games and they are DRM free you can find them here: http://www.gog.com/

 

Here is the link for 'Wizardry 8' for anyone that is interested plus it's on Steam too: http://www.gog.com/game/wizardry_8

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12118

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/05/13 10:56:34 AM#64
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.

AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.

But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.

THANK. GOD.   

AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.

Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.

This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.

I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.

The difference is in the rewards and the design of the content. One game has 'trash mobs' and drops so rare that raiders have extensive spreadsheets and online apps to manage who can or should get a particular item if/when it drops. In AC1, UO and other games with public dungeons, the dungeon is about fighting monsters and not about avoiding whatever you can until you get to the big thing at the end with the gear you almost need to have if you want to join your guild in successive dungeons. 

Erm, sorry Lokto... you usually make a lot of sense in those otherwise senseless waters, but here...

I remember patch days in AC1. It was all about getting to the newest boss mob down the latest dungeon and doing as much damage as possible to beat everyone else and reap the rewards. I know the pain as a melee character before they added "rending" weapons. I also remember people "ninjaing" Aerfalle quests other had provided the materials for and started, by camping the relic city and going into the portal.

Sorry if I don't have those "rose colored glasses" anymore and if I remember games like they were, and not like they were supposed to be. Don't get me wrong, those games were great... but not even remotely close to be as perfect as people try to make you believe they were here.

Whoa there. When did I say AC players were perfect? I'm speaking solely from a design perspective. I don't doubt that you or others tried to get the kill to take the loot at some point. We're talking about bosses and which we preferred, right? You said AC bosses didn't have the mechanics of WOW bosses. I replied to that specific statement (highlighted it) with THANK GOD because I don't like the rare drop and DKP stuff. In WOW, the dungeon exists solely for the rare drop pinata (boss) at the end. In many AC dungeons, the boss is entirely optional or non-existent. In the ones where it exists, it doesn't make a difference if someone grabs item x from the boss because it ALWAYS drops item x. With very few exceptions (Aerfalle and a couple others), you don't have to repeat a 45 minute to 1.5 hr run to get the boss drop, and it certainly isn't in hopes of a tiny chance of MAYBE getting that drop from the boss. 

 

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  sirphobos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 601

11/05/13 11:03:12 AM#65

Either AC1 or EQ1.  AC1 had just a tremendous variety of dungeons scattered throughout the world to explore.  It was probably nearly impossible for one person to explore all of them.

EQ1 had some awesome open world dungeons in vanilla and the first two expansions.  It's too bad after Velious the quality of the open world dungeons really took a turn for the worse.  The people who designed dungeons like Sebilis and Howling Stones must not have stayed with SOE.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

11/05/13 11:36:20 AM#66
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile

 

When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?

How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?

Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.

 

Says who?

If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.

Whatever you want is irrelevant to the market. Clearly MMORPGs are not solo-able games, and often there is no persistent world in many aspects of the gameplay (instance pvp & pve).

If you don't like it, you don't have to play it. Millions seem to enjoy it, hence the market respond.

 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12118

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/05/13 11:56:00 AM#67
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

Well, I'll leave it to your simplistic (and possibly/obviously ignorant) view that "WoW style" bosses all have to be about DKP and rare drops. I'm happy to actually have played WoW and know better than that.

If the bosses in dungeons no longer do percentage-based drops of rare, often needed for raiding, gear then that's a change since last I played. Haven't played since TBC, so if they are different now then I apologize for my ignorance of the newer design. Prior to that, the purpose of the dungeon was to hold the boss and the purpose of the boss was to drop rare items. 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  mari3k

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/13
Posts: 146

11/05/13 12:13:17 PM#68

DAoC of course !!!

Remember the dungeon boss that only took damage from healers ? That was fun, sitting 60 minutes at the side an watching the healers hitting that thing for good :-)

Step in the arena and break the wall down

  tzj2006

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 20

11/05/13 12:20:59 PM#69
AoC was my favorite so far, a decent amount of challenge and the atmosphere and art direction were amazing. Too bad the pop is so low
  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/05/13 1:13:33 PM#70
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile

 

When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?

How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?

Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.

 

Says who?

If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.

 

They don't appear to be, see: SWTOR's massive belly flop.

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/05/13 1:15:12 PM#71
Originally posted by tzj2006
AoC was my favorite so far, a decent amount of challenge and the atmosphere and art direction were amazing. Too bad the pop is so low

I couldn't make it through most of the content in AoC because it was such tedious simple WoW quest grinding and the zones were really linear.

What are the dungeons like? Are they instanced? Can I go into them with a few friends and run them, or am I locked out until I get to a specific quest point in a quest I have to pay for, like in LotRO? I found it near impossible to do dungeons in LOtRO with friends, the game fights you every step of the way. Are they linear "clear the boss" deals, or more open?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

11/05/13 1:54:52 PM#72
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile

 

When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?

How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?

Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.

 

Says who?

If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.

 

They don't appear to be, see: SWTOR's massive belly flop.

The massive belly flop has more players than Eve, and darkfall.

And which hugely successful MMO cannot be solo-ed or have no instances? GW2?

 

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/05/13 1:59:13 PM#73
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile

 

When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?

How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?

Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.

 

Says who?

If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.

 

They don't appear to be, see: SWTOR's massive belly flop.

The massive belly flop has more players than Eve, and darkfall.

 

First of all, that's incorrect in terms of Eve. Eve has 500k subscribers and growing, and a lot more free players. That's with almost no marketing, or budget, or brand names.

SWTOR, the most expensive MMO ever made, with both Bioware's name behind it, and Star Wars behind it, crashed and burned faster than almost any MMO ever made, and its transition to FTP has only slowed its decline, not stopped it.

 

You can sell a lot of boxes with the marketing budget SWTOR had (probably bigger than Eve's development budget) but they won't stay if they don't like the game, and they don't.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

11/05/13 2:13:07 PM#74
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

 

First of all, that's incorrect in terms of Eve. Eve has 500k subscribers and growing, and a lot more free players. That's with almost no marketing, or budget, or brand names.

SWTOR, the most expensive MMO ever made, with both Bioware's name behind it, and Star Wars behind it, crashed and burned faster than almost any MMO ever made, and its transition to FTP has only slowed its decline, not stopped it.

 

You can sell a lot of boxes with the marketing budget SWTOR had (probably bigger than Eve's development budget) but they won't stay if they don't like the game, and they don't.

All excuses. Eve has years .. and what happened? Not even a mil of players.

How about GW2? Take them what ... 4 weeks to get to 2M?

 

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/05/13 2:17:34 PM#75
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

 

First of all, that's incorrect in terms of Eve. Eve has 500k subscribers and growing, and a lot more free players. That's with almost no marketing, or budget, or brand names.

SWTOR, the most expensive MMO ever made, with both Bioware's name behind it, and Star Wars behind it, crashed and burned faster than almost any MMO ever made, and its transition to FTP has only slowed its decline, not stopped it.

 

You can sell a lot of boxes with the marketing budget SWTOR had (probably bigger than Eve's development budget) but they won't stay if they don't like the game, and they don't.

All excuses. Eve has years .. and what happened? Not even a mil of players.

 

 

I flip flop trying to figure out if you're just a very dedicated troll, or if you don't read the things you respond to. Eve is one of the most successful MMOs of all time. It has a growing stable population. Your precious instanced solo centric MMOs do not.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

11/05/13 2:39:49 PM#76
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
 

I flip flop trying to figure out if you're just a very dedicated troll, or if you don't read the things you respond to. Eve is one of the most successful MMOs of all time. It has a growing stable population. Your precious instanced solo centric MMOs do not.

You have a very strange definition of "successful". It certainly took a long time to get to a pantry of a small 500k player base. Say GW2 got that in what? 3 days?

And it is smaller than GW2, LoL, WoT, and not to mention WoW.

Your opinion does not make it a success.

 

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/05/13 2:46:28 PM#77
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
 

I flip flop trying to figure out if you're just a very dedicated troll, or if you don't read the things you respond to. Eve is one of the most successful MMOs of all time. It has a growing stable population. Your precious instanced solo centric MMOs do not.

You have a very strange definition of "successful". It certainly took a long time to get to a pantry of a small 500k player base. Say GW2 got that in what? 3 days?

And it is smaller than GW2, LoL, WoT, and not to mention WoW.

Your opinion does not make it a success.

 

Got it, troll or not, you aren't worth listening to. You're entirely out of touch with reality. Either that or you don't have the barest grasp on how business works, and you do not even attempt to back up your facts. You also like to refer to non MMOs to support MMO based arguments. So right, to the ignore list!

 

Now can someone answer my Age of Conan question?

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1360

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

11/05/13 5:08:40 PM#78


Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Now can someone answer my Age of Conan question?


Oh you want your question answered? Silly us; we all thought you wanted to be nagged to death. I'll be watching the thread for an answer to the AoC question. It piqued my interest when someone said they had the best dungeons + sieges. But if it's a quest hub game then NO THANKS.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

11/05/13 5:11:59 PM#79
Aoc is a quest hub type game yes.

The dungeons in Aoc (and tsw) are top quality, but I find the rest of the games lacking, tsw has a nice way of doing quests which isn't really using hubs as they use long multi stage quests. Both games are lacking at stuff like crafting and pvp. Aoc also has a bloody awful ui.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

11/05/13 5:43:13 PM#80
Originally posted by goldtoof
Aoc is a quest hub type game yes.

The dungeons in Aoc (and tsw) are top quality, but I find the rest of the games lacking, tsw has a nice way of doing quests which isn't really using hubs as they use long multi stage quests. Both games are lacking at stuff like crafting and pvp. Aoc also has a bloody awful ui.

Looks like i should try out AoC. It does sound like it can be enjoyed as a solo game.

 

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