Trending Games | WildStar | Elder Scrolls Online | World of Warcraft | Neverwinter

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,639,210 Users Online:0
Games:678  Posts:6,073,770
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » p2w doesn't exist in AAA mmo's, please stop pretending it does.

8 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Search
141 posts found
  ropenice

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 575

11/05/13 2:49:06 PM#81
Originally posted by alkarionlog

depend on the game xp potions can and can not be a p2w, if a game require you to grind over 5 hours to lvl a certain lvl but with a  xp potion or premium you just need 1 hour or less then its pay to win

 

pay to win is mostly things will make your char be stronger or forces you hard to spend if not the game can't be enjoyed, the ones I know and I remember right now are DDO(sorry op buying tomes who gives +5 on stats is pay to win, also limiting part of the game is annoying) SWtor, most if not all chinese games (yes paying for higher chance to lvl gear is pay to win).

 

but the worse problem is the players, they know the game is pay to win but as long he can pay and keep on top echelon of his server he don't care till he find someone more stupid to spend even more then him then he start to cry and quit the game saying its pay to win, would be so easy for the whole genre if plyers just stoped playing or at least paying for this kind of game or at least limit his paying to 15 a month, doing so would show the devs they can't milk players with garbage and would force then to up they games.

I don't get the DDO reference. How does having a stat boost you can buy make it p2w? There isn't any pvp (besides dual-type which mean nothing), so how can someones stats being higher win you anything? Just because they have items that u can't get in-game, doesn't make it p2w if it has no impact on others gameplay (nor xp boosts). And yes it is annoying to freeloaders to have content limited if they don't pay, but how else would this game as f2p make enough to stay open and add content (which they have done much since f2p switch). With unlimited free to all content few would use CS and they would be out of biz. Not being cheap and 10/month solves that problem. I played with sub and never had any problem or even notice of others spending habits in CS, so didn't notice anyone winning or me losing.

To OP, I agree that too many create silly things as p2w that gives no advantage. Seems like most of them just want everything free. I hate CS and would prefer the sub model, as long as the devs make a good enough game to deserve any money. To me, if a game isn't worth 10-15/month, then it isn't even worth playing.

Edit: Of course games with pvp, resource control, realistic economics, crafting, etc are different as you are competing against others and not just engaging with content.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17899

11/05/13 2:59:49 PM#82
Originally posted by nerovipus32
If you don't pay your monthly sub you can't win. So yes they are p2w.

Yeah.

And since i don't p2w, i don't play sub-only games.

  Swids2010

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 152

11/05/13 2:59:51 PM#83

As I said earlier some of you people have clearly not played a P2W game because if you had you would all be singing a different tune.

PAY 2 WIN IS WHEN YOU CAN BUY SOMETHING FROM A CASH STORE AS IN REAL MONEY THAT IS UNATAINABLE IN GAME AND GIVES A MASSIVE ADVANTAGE OVER NON CASH SHOP USERS.

Two best examples of this are APB at one point you could buy upgraded version of weapons armour and cars that were unattainable by actually playing the game. And these were slightly better the were massively more powerful. Another one which I believe has been removed now was a AMMO in World of tanks that was a lot better than anything attainable in game.

If you can earn something in game that is also in a cash shop it is not pay to win. Some of you people need to get over yourselves.

  123443211234

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 220

11/05/13 3:08:11 PM#84
Originally posted by Swids2010

As I said earlier some of you people have clearly not played a P2W game because if you had you would all be singing a different tune.

PAY 2 WIN IS WHEN YOU CAN BUY SOMETHING FROM A CASH STORE AS IN REAL MONEY THAT IS UNATAINABLE IN GAME AND GIVES A MASSIVE ADVANTAGE OVER NON CASH SHOP USERS.

 

No it is not it is using cash to obtain ANY advantage plain and simple.  There are many different degrees of just how bad and explicit that advantage is but regardless of the degree an advantage is an advantage and one that you used cash to pay for is the very definition of pay to win.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

11/05/13 3:22:45 PM#85

I find it rather ironic that the OP argues that subjectivity should be eliminated from the definition of  "win" in Pay-2-Win and then goes on to present us with his own personal ("subjective") opinion of what constitutes "winning".

Here is the deal. Since MMO's are persistant games that never actualy end (absent the company closing the doors), there can be no real objectively quantifiable definition of "winning" them....thus the OP could argue that even one which sold users a "I WIN" button wasn't "Pay-2-Win."

However, that's a circular arguement and nonsense in this context. "Winning" and "Pay-2-Win" are NECCESARLY subjective measures in this context. ABSOLUTELY certain games are and can be considred "Pay-2-Win" by one (or many individuals)..... and that's really all that matters. If I think a games chosen payment model creates an unfair advantage that detracts from my enjoyment and desire to play the game sufficiently that I don't want to play it....then it's "Pay-2-Win" as far as I'm concerened and I'm not going to play it. That doesn't have to be determinative of what YOU might decide....but that's only relavent to you....and as far as the Developer is concerned, if he's got a whole lot of people feeling like me and not so much like you, then he's got a serious potential problem....if not, then he doesn't.

 

 

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6476

11/05/13 3:47:50 PM#86
Originally posted by 123443211234
Originally posted by Swids2010

As I said earlier some of you people have clearly not played a P2W game because if you had you would all be singing a different tune.

PAY 2 WIN IS WHEN YOU CAN BUY SOMETHING FROM A CASH STORE AS IN REAL MONEY THAT IS UNATAINABLE IN GAME AND GIVES A MASSIVE ADVANTAGE OVER NON CASH SHOP USERS.

 

No it is not it is using cash to obtain ANY advantage plain and simple.  There are many different degrees of just how bad and explicit that advantage is but regardless of the degree an advantage is an advantage and one that you used cash to pay for is the very definition of pay to win.

Very well said. Black and White. People here have been trying to color it with all shades of gray.

 

edit- And you know, I fine with this, in this day and age. EVE, AoW, GW2, Neverwinter, Swtor, ANY game with a cash to in game currency is p2w. I always has been and always will be.

 

 My game of choice is p2w just like the others I mentioned. I wish it wasn't. 

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 3622

11/05/13 4:09:25 PM#87
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by 123443211234
Originally posted by Swids2010

As I said earlier some of you people have clearly not played a P2W game because if you had you would all be singing a different tune.

PAY 2 WIN IS WHEN YOU CAN BUY SOMETHING FROM A CASH STORE AS IN REAL MONEY THAT IS UNATAINABLE IN GAME AND GIVES A MASSIVE ADVANTAGE OVER NON CASH SHOP USERS.

 

No it is not it is using cash to obtain ANY advantage plain and simple.  There are many different degrees of just how bad and explicit that advantage is but regardless of the degree an advantage is an advantage and one that you used cash to pay for is the very definition of pay to win.

Very well said. Black and White. People here have been trying to color it with all shades of gray.

 

 

Now all you have to do is get people at agree on what an advantage really is and it will be black and white.

 

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6476

11/05/13 4:12:59 PM#88
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by 123443211234
Originally posted by Swids2010

As I said earlier some of you people have clearly not played a P2W game because if you had you would all be singing a different tune.

PAY 2 WIN IS WHEN YOU CAN BUY SOMETHING FROM A CASH STORE AS IN REAL MONEY THAT IS UNATAINABLE IN GAME AND GIVES A MASSIVE ADVANTAGE OVER NON CASH SHOP USERS.

 

No it is not it is using cash to obtain ANY advantage plain and simple.  There are many different degrees of just how bad and explicit that advantage is but regardless of the degree an advantage is an advantage and one that you used cash to pay for is the very definition of pay to win.

Very well said. Black and White. People here have been trying to color it with all shades of gray.

 

 

Now all you have to do is get people at agree on what an advantage really is and it will be black and white.

 

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1174

Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute.

11/05/13 5:02:13 PM#89

Thanks for your opinion OP. Mine is as follows. Since the "primary" goal of the game is advancing your character, then advancing in levels is considered winning. If you, personally, can advance faster by spending money; that equates to P2W.

I'm not going to a party full of clowns (F2P), then offer to buy them all drinks. -GregorMcgregor

Playing: XCom, Rome Total War, Master of Orion II, Majesty 2, and HOMM I.
Played: Everquest, Planetside, Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, EVE, UO.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17899

11/05/13 5:25:23 PM#90
Originally posted by Arclan

Thanks for your opinion OP. Mine is as follows. Since the "primary" goal of the game is advancing your character, then advancing in levels is considered winning. If you, personally, can advance faster by spending money; that equates to P2W.

Thanks for your opinion, Arclan. Mine is as follows. Since the "primary" goal of a game is entertaining me, advancing some levels that considered boring is considered skipping, and not winning. If you, personally, can skip content by spending money, that does not equate to p2w.

 

  kkarrabbass

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 160

I was a smart man once...

11/05/13 5:29:09 PM#91

It is rather very simple if you agree not to argue right away, but think a little first.

It is, as people already noted, in a meaning of word “win”.

It is a market. If you are buying something, it means you want it. Because it is a game, there is nothing you can buy that will not influence your game experience. You are buying to improve your game one way or another, why you would do that in opposite case.

Because we are talking about RPG (not a shooter) killing is not the only thing that is important in a game.

P2W means you have an opportunity to buy something that you wouldn’t have otherwise. No matter what it is. Even cosmetics (if you are buying it – so, it is important for you) make you enjoy game better.  You can buy time if you value it. Winning means to have something YOU VALUE, that next guy doesn’t have. Exactly the way as winning in sense of killing someone will give you a feeling of selfimportance and pride.

It is not about winning PvP encounter however. It is P2W, not P2WPvP. So, wining is used in its general sense. Winning over someone doesn’t necessary means killing that one.

We do not do killing very often in real life, but it doesn’t prevent us from saying “I won”.

As I understand it P2W means ability to pay for advantage. Whatever advantage you value. If you want to look better in a game, you can buy this advantage and look better than one who didn’t.

And if somebody will tell me it is not a winning, just grow up. Winning is not always about killing, ask your wife.

P2W means you can buy inequality, unfairness, etc. Some will say, but it might not influence actual gameplay.

Who are you to impose your narrow vision on another person gameplay.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17899

11/05/13 5:41:29 PM#92
Originally posted by kkarrabbass

Who are you to impose your narrow vision on another person gameplay.

No one can impose their views on others. I doubt any mind is being changed here.

It boils down to different people don't agree on which game is p2w, and which is not. That is totally fine since i don't play games based on others' preferences anyway. I play games based on mine.

 

  MuffinStump

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/03
Posts: 475

11/05/13 5:47:24 PM#93


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by kkarrabbass Who are you to impose your narrow vision on another person gameplay.
No one can impose their views on others. I doubt any mind is being changed here.

It boils down to different people don't agree on which game is p2w, and which is not. That is totally fine since i don't play games based on others' preferences anyway. I play games based on mine.

 


Ultimately you're correct that this is essentially an argument of semantics.

The problem, as I see it, is that 'P2W' is basically a curse word in the mmo community and it is wielded like a hammer in the discussion of almost any game. More of an indictment on the state of gaming forums than anything else.

"This game sucks! P2W!" - says almost every game detractor ever

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 5:54:46 PM#94
Originally posted by MuffinStump

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by kkarrabbass Who are you to impose your narrow vision on another person gameplay.
No one can impose their views on others. I doubt any mind is being changed here.

 

It boils down to different people don't agree on which game is p2w, and which is not. That is totally fine since i don't play games based on others' preferences anyway. I play games based on mine.

 


 

Ultimately you're correct that this is essentially an argument of semantics.

The problem, as I see it, is that 'P2W' is basically a curse word in the mmo community and it is wielded like a hammer in the discussion of almost any game. More of an indictment on the state of gaming forums than anything else.

"This game sucks! P2W!" - says almost every game detractor ever

If pay 2 win arguments must define what "win" is.  then free 2 play needs to define what "play" is, and it better be free.

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 3622

11/05/13 6:04:07 PM#95

The reason people have so much trouble defining what "win" is...is because just about everyone uses the term wrong. Pay to win is a pvp term. It comes from when microtransactions first started to show up. Some of the first items that got tried where...... stat boosts, because.....why wouldn't you want to buy those ?

The argument quickly came up that pvp is about skill and those items give an advantage to people who pay....hence the words.....pay....to....win.

Now that free to play is wide spread and other things are getting put onto the cash shops that people don't like to see on there, well the term p2w was already popular so they started to call it that as well.

It doesn't make sense when you argue it for pve because there is obviously no real " win" in pve compared to other people. It makes total sense in it's original usage. The guy left alive, won.

What's going on now, is people are trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole and wondering why it doesn't work.

 

So there is some history on the term for people who are really struggling with the word win.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 656

11/05/13 6:10:34 PM#96
The truth is, it was never about winning.  It was always about paying.  That is what troubled the penniless unwashed masses.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/05/13 6:11:47 PM#97
Originally posted by DamonVile

The reason people have so much trouble defining what "win" is...is because just about everyone uses the term wrong. Pay to win is a pvp term. It comes from when microtransactions first started to show up. Some of the first items that got tried where...... stat boosts, because.....why wouldn't you want to buy those ?

The argument quickly came up that pvp is about skill and those items give an advantage to people who pay....hence the words.....pay....to....win.

Now that free to play is wide spread and other things are getting put onto the cash shops that people don't like to see on there, well the term p2w was already popular so they started to call it that as well.

It doesn't make sense when you argue it for pve because there is obviously no real " win" in pve compared to other people. It makes total sense in it's original usage. The guy left alive, won.

What's going on now, is people are trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole and wondering why it doesn't work.

 

So there is some history on the term for people who are really struggling with the word win.

Players made a game of getting  to endgame fastest. I think it's weird, but it is reality. I doubt they care if that wasn't supposed to be the game. Pve progression isn't a game unless you beat it. So there is some History for people who are struggling to accept it.

Gamers play games.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  goboygo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 261

11/05/13 6:42:27 PM#98
Originally posted by trancefate

 

In my opinion, for a game to be considered PAY TO WIN, the MAXIMUM potential of your character must be allowed to be raised in a way that is NOT obtainable through in-game means.  This is almost never the case (I'm sure someone is gonna come in with some one-off convoluted instance we don't remember, or an indie game 600 people play).

 

Soooooo in your opinion if I can reach the MAXIMUM potential of my character without using the cash shop but it takes me grinding 24 hours a day for 6 years to achieve what can be bought in the cash shop in one week the game is NOT pay to win.

Sure, okay.

  RebelScum99

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

11/05/13 6:44:49 PM#99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

  Superman0X

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 862

11/05/13 7:03:40 PM#100
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Superman0X

If you want to see a P2W game, check out WoW.

 

Take two players, have one buy the game, and monthly sub. Have the other play for free... and compare the results. There will be a drastic difference in the player experience based on the money paid. This is P2W.

Not sure if serious....

I agree that it might be a stretch to call WoW a AAA game, but humor me...

8 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Search