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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I think its over.

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415 posts found
  Cymoril

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 10

11/04/13 8:48:24 PM#141

 

 I feel once you realize you have put in 6-15 years of your life into looking a box (monitor) for "entertainment" you start reevaluating what's fun since you cant get that time back on your life. I have been in and out of the MMO scene since UO first launched (GL server). I dropped 4 months into it and then 6 years into Dark Age of Camelot. I went to WOW afterwards and after a year I disliked it b/c I didn't want to redo the treadmill and came to the conclusion when the game maker pulls the plug what do you really get to keep ?

 I agree with most of your post and some of what the others have said that I constantly question myself; am I too old to enjoy this ? (yes I read books) However I don't enjoy the PVE dance on raids for raid bosses and for me the best PVP out there atm is Rift. My first year I capped my cleric, and I came back as a Rogue (non healer) and lvld all the way for the most part to 58 in PvP. Yes, the retards will grind your patience and nerves down- slap em on ignore and walk away. I really want to go back to Dark Age since that is my "home" but the game is soo outdated and EA still has a sub on a game that hasn't been updated in 6 ish years by the looks of it as well as they want to charge me $20 for every char I ever made to bring them back off an archived server. 6 Years of chars, and a sub and outdated gfx engine prevents me from doing this.

You could try another niche like FPS but eventually youll come back to what you enjoy, or think u enjoy. Another option would be for you to sign up for Closed Beta's. I've done that and saved some time with sub par games in the early development process about how the devs react to helpful constructive criticism. I loved TSWs theme, hated the game. I'm still waiting for something to hold my attention longer that 1hr a nite- maybe that's a good thing tho that I can walk away now and years back I couldn't.

  NorseGod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 574

11/04/13 9:30:34 PM#142
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by jpnz

I don't know about you,  I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.

How do you know that you are "most"?

Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?

Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?

 It's fine, he's clueless.

As for your second statement. I can easily put the blame on the developer it's not our fault the content is too easy or extremely short. I place all these issues on the people developing the games.

I can agree with that.

But, those people are the loudest. They create an illusion that they are the majority. They get all of the attention. Then, when they get what they want, they don't even stick around, they move on to the next upcoming game to dumb-down and destroy.

If I were to fully blame devs, it would be because they didn't pick up on this behavior years ago.

I wonder how many MMOS out there right now would kill for 450K dedicated, concurrent, paying players? How many of those were originally aiming for millions? Suddenly, EQ numbers in it's prime, doesn't look that bad after all. But then again, it was a real MMORPG and now considered "icky".

 

 

 

  monochrome19

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 322

11/04/13 9:32:27 PM#143
Originally posted by Pala
Originally posted by monochrome19

There is a way to fix all this though...

You guys could give me a million or so dollars to make the next greatest MMORPG ever.

What makes you think you could do it?

I don't know honestly. I just... feel it in my soul.

I once read a quote that said, "The idea isnt to live forever, its to build something that does."

And thats what I plan to do. Even if it takes forever. Not for me, but for everyone. I still remember my first years of playing an MMORPG and how happy an experience it was, magical almost. I think thats the word for a lot of people here... magical.

When you fell in love with your first MMO didn't it feel like that?

 

I would go around Stormwind and Goldshire and yell,

"I'm going to be the best warlock in World of Warcraft!" And I believed it.

I strove for that recognition and eventually i made a name for myself on my server. I was so happy back then, I truly felt apart of some magical world. I had absolutely no idea how to play a warlock, people told me not to play it as a first class. I had a hunter teach me how to CC properly. People I didn't know from around the world would take time from raiding and teach me the ropes of my class and I felt eternally indebted to them. I still do. And because of people like that, who had families, or better things to do in-game I feel compelled to help any noobie I see.

 

I don't know if it was because of the people or the game itself but i know when I'm an old man on my death bed I wont forget my days in Azeroth or the people i met along the way... even if we never truly "met". Those are special memories for me and I cherish them like the day I graduated from high school, I think every gamer should experience this at least once, that magical feeling.

 

Oh man, I'm sorry. I cant keep writing this... I'm crying right now...

 

I'm in my first year of community college. For Computer Science. I'll learn to program, I'll learn to make a game, I'll learn everything. I've got some great friends with varied talents. I'll make a team. Even if I have to program a billion lines of code until I'm 50 years old. I swear I'll make a great game so somewhere along the line some kid like me can have that same magical feeling.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4650

11/04/13 9:36:32 PM#144
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by jpnz

I don't know about you,  I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.

How do you know that you are "most"?

Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?

Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?

 It's fine, he's clueless.

As for your second statement. I can easily put the blame on the developer it's not our fault the content is too easy or extremely short. I place all these issues on the people developing the games.

I can agree with that.

But, those people are the loudest. They create an illusion that they are the majority. They get all of the attention. Then, when they get what they want, they don't even stick around, they move on to the next upcoming game to dumb-down and destroy.

If I were to fully blame devs, it would be because they didn't pick up on this behavior years ago.

I wonder how many MMOS out there right now would kill for 450K dedicated, concurrent, paying players? How many of those were originally aiming for millions? Suddenly, EQ numbers in it's prime, doesn't look that bad after all. But then again, it was a real MMORPG and now considered "icky".

 

 

 

So in your opinion who is the majority voice ?

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5670

11/04/13 9:54:17 PM#145
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Distopia

Who said I didn't "join the rest"? I've given up on the idea of a new SWG or DAOC emerging from the AAA studios out there, I did long ago. Such a game will not surface any time soon. What's left is putting up with issues and playing Indie games, or private servers of old ones. Those are your options for that today. As for misled? How is it possible to be misled by these games? How in any way shape or form? Get your head out of the sand and write something sensible.

 Unfortunately it seems you're the clueless one who needs to pull their head out of the sand. Seeing as you don't see the issue with the MMOs that are being released today. You also seem to have little to no knowledge about the products these companies are advertising these days. Otherwise you'd understand how misleading these companies are with the products they're releasing.

So if he sees things differently than you he's clueless. I think he does understand exactly how advertising works because he isn't fooled into buying into the marketing hook line and sinker. That's what mature grown up people do; take responsibility for themselves because experience has taught them that lesson.

Misleading game advertising isn't something that happened "post-WoW" for these new games. It's been that way since there video games were first marketed. Going a step further you could apply that to advertising in general for as long as it has existed.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

11/04/13 10:02:01 PM#146
I feel your pain, OP. It's at the point that I don't even consider the old standards to be the same genre as the newer mmos. Old-fashioned though it may be to say, there was a real sense that devs used to be excited about trying to conquer this holy grail of virtual worlds and that wonder translated not just because it was new to gamers but because it was new for devs as well. These days everything is a formula, and there is a very real feeling that publishers are willing to mix and match those formulaic features that are proven to generate dollars but see no reason to take risks on new approaches.

And that is their job, as publishers. New market, big bucks. Can't expect them NOT to like making money. It just sucks for those of us that remember the old magic that happened when there was no formula to go by... just design concepts and the quest to realize them. Publishers are largely not willing to invest like they did on dark horses because there are no more dark horses. Just justifiable risks and market analysis. Developers either shoulder the burden themselves with crap funding or make a living in that part of the Venn diagram where employment and creativity overlap: Concession.

For us old timers, concession doesn't really cut it for obvious reasons. For tons of new players, it does, because to them that's just what the genre is. Our genre is dead, and part of that is due just as much to the ephemeral nature of its origins and the wonder that made it engaging back then as it is to those big ole mean publishers just doing what publishers have done for ages.

Here's hoping for some magic again, in whatever form it takes.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5670

11/04/13 10:08:47 PM#147
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by jpnz

I don't know about you,  I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.

How do you know that you are "most"?

Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?

Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?

Wow those are some pretty big claims you're making.

Do you have something to support your claim that most people don't stay in a game (we're talking about mmos here right?) for more than 30 days? You know, you should show some proof of that just to retain credibility, but even if you did it doesn't matter, because revenue and growth trends show that to be irrelevant to whatever point you're trying to make. However, I think you're wrong because growth and revenue keeps increasing annually. People are playing more.

Wait, who's right with what? You didn't ask a question. You're making a statement that isn't answering a question in support of a premise you haven't clearly defined or argued.

I'll tell you why I think he speaks for a majority of gamers because game revenues, especially online game revenues keep increasing year to year. The people happier with gaming are playing and paying and the number of people playing are increasing. This report here: http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/ supports my claim and his.

Do you have any facts at all to support what you claim or are you basing it all, like most of the disgruntled here, on your wishes. You wish that what you feel is true so you keep saying it and then start believing it to be truth. Sorry but facts don't support you. Back in the day, that same old school day you're all pining for, gamers had to support their claims with facts or they were called on the carpet. You want oldschool? Here it is. Put up some facts.

 

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Fangrim

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/12
Posts: 474

11/04/13 10:20:21 PM#148

I agree with everything the OP said apart from one thing.

Yes you are getting older but the games are shallow and aimed at bottom feeders many of whom say things like 'vanilla wow was such a hard game,why can't they go back to that' makes me laugh.

They don't understand how it used to be because their first game was 'the dawn of the casuals',it was casual and easy from day one and just got easier and what makes it worse other older games followed this dumb down.

Edit: So its nothing to do with getting older just the devolution of the genre.

  sonicbrew

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 518

11/04/13 10:26:51 PM#149
Oh its over alright; putting all arguments aside, just look at these and other forums. It's a clear indication of what has been transpiring.

“Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.” ~ Italian proverb

  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 490

11/04/13 10:38:56 PM#150
Originally posted by monochrome19
Originally posted by Pala
Originally posted by monochrome19

There is a way to fix all this though...

You guys could give me a million or so dollars to make the next greatest MMORPG ever.

What makes you think you could do it?

I don't know honestly. I just... feel it in my soul.

I once read a quote that said, "The idea isnt to live forever, its to build something that does."

And thats what I plan to do. Even if it takes forever. Not for me, but for everyone. I still remember my first years of playing an MMORPG and how happy an experience it was, magical almost. I think thats the word for a lot of people here... magical.

When you fell in love with your first MMO didn't it feel like that?

 

I would go around Stormwind and Goldshire and yell,

"I'm going to be the best warlock in World of Warcraft!" And I believed it.

I strove for that recognition and eventually i made a name for myself on my server. I was so happy back then, I truly felt apart of some magical world. I had absolutely no idea how to play a warlock, people told me not to play it as a first class. I had a hunter teach me how to CC properly. People I didn't know from around the world would take time from raiding and teach me the ropes of my class and I felt eternally indebted to them. I still do. And because of people like that, who had families, or better things to do in-game I feel compelled to help any noobie I see.

 

I don't know if it was because of the people or the game itself but i know when I'm an old man on my death bed I wont forget my days in Azeroth or the people i met along the way... even if we never truly "met". Those are special memories for me and I cherish them like the day I graduated from high school, I think every gamer should experience this at least once, that magical feeling.

 

Oh man, I'm sorry. I cant keep writing this... I'm crying right now...

 

I'm in my first year of community college. For Computer Science. I'll learn to program, I'll learn to make a game, I'll learn everything. I've got some great friends with varied talents. I'll make a team. Even if I have to program a billion lines of code until I'm 50 years old. I swear I'll make a great game so somewhere along the line some kid like me can have that same magical feeling.

The original MMOs were build on blood sweat and tears. The guys worked their ass off to make them.
 
 
You don’t really need a million bucks, it may help for awhile. You need to have the right team and the internal fortitude to bang your head against brick walls for years before burning out like a 100 watt light bulb or succeeding.
 

Making a beast like a MMORPG is just down right painful.

 

OP - It’s been over for a long time. I’m sick of the same pac-man 2 game play too.
 
 
Take a break and a deep breath then come back in a few months. You’ll have a better perspective.
  Acebets70

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/08/11
Posts: 200

11/04/13 10:48:24 PM#151
I agree with OP, im shocked at the majority of people here saying "just accept these crappy games now"  lol WHAT????  
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5670

11/04/13 11:00:49 PM#152
Originally posted by Acebets70
I agree with OP, im shocked at the majority of people here saying "just accept these crappy games now"  lol WHAT????  

I'm surprised you don't get that we all like different things. Who are you to decide what is crap?

The massive success of the Hearthstone beta threads should tell you all you need to know with regards to those who think everyone is of the opinion that "it's over".

And I don't think anyone is saying that we should be playing crappy games. I think people are saying there are tons of games out there. Go play the fun ones (not the funyuns). If you can't find a fun game in this world, then maybe you're not a gamer.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

11/04/13 11:16:38 PM#153
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by jpnz

I don't know about you,  I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.

How do you know that you are "most"?

Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?

Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?

Wow those are some pretty big claims you're making.

Do you have something to support your claim that most people don't stay in a game (we're talking about mmos here right?) for more than 30 days? You know, you should show some proof of that just to retain credibility, but even if you did it doesn't matter, because revenue and growth trends show that to be irrelevant to whatever point you're trying to make. However, I think you're wrong because growth and revenue keeps increasing annually. People are playing more.

Wait, who's right with what? You didn't ask a question. You're making a statement that isn't answering a question in support of a premise you haven't clearly defined or argued.

I'll tell you why I think he speaks for a majority of gamers because game revenues, especially online game revenues keep increasing year to year. The people happier with gaming are playing and paying and the number of people playing are increasing. This report here: http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/ supports my claim and his.

Do you have any facts at all to support what you claim or are you basing it all, like most of the disgruntled here, on your wishes. You wish that what you feel is true so you keep saying it and then start believing it to be truth. Sorry but facts don't support you. Back in the day, that same old school day you're all pining for, gamers had to support their claims with facts or they were called on the carpet. You want oldschool? Here it is. Put up some facts.

 

The article says the number of games is outpacing growth of consumers. Your link doesn't back up anything.

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1152

11/04/13 11:51:46 PM#154
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Acebets70
I agree with OP, im shocked at the majority of people here saying "just accept these crappy games now"  lol WHAT????  

I'm surprised you don't get that we all like different things. Who are you to decide what is crap?

The massive success of the Hearthstone beta threads should tell you all you need to know with regards to those who think everyone is of the opinion that "it's over".

And I don't think anyone is saying that we should be playing crappy games. I think people are saying there are tons of games out there. Go play the fun ones (not the funyuns). If you can't find a fun game in this world, then maybe you're not a gamer.

Yeah, this is the flaw in the OP's argument. I'm also frustrated with "dumbed down" gameplay in many new games but I don't assume, like the OP, that the people who  like these games are drooling idiots, just that they have different tastes than I do. If you think playing complex games means you are automatically smarter, all you have to do is download the EVE free trial and read the Jita chat for 5 minutes on an average night to disprove that theory :)

 I also know for a fact that many professional people who are far smarter than I am play FarmVille and similar games on a regular basis which I consider completely brain dead in terms of gameplay .

 HearthStone is a perfect example. I can't for the life of me figure out why a reskinned version of Magic:The Gathering with tacky Blizzard art is the latest rage, I have no interest in playing it at all, but if you're having fun with it, knock yourself out.

Insulting people for liking different things is a sign of immaturity, not intelligence.

 

 

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2056

11/04/13 11:54:19 PM#155

Hearthstone isn't a MMORPG so I'm confused how it matters in this discussion in any way?

  MMOManiacs

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/07
Posts: 194

11/05/13 12:01:43 AM#156

The last time I checked, many of those "old school MMOs" are still up and running, with healthy communities to boot....why are u searching if those games still exist?

Go play them....

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1046

11/05/13 12:10:27 AM#157
Originally posted by jpnz

So another 'Back in the old days MMO' rants?

Sorry but that gameplay is now niche.

Sometimes what you like is niche and that means the market might not cater to what you want.

How do you know it is niche 90% of the MMO population has come when WoW came out due to mass advertising most dont even know they were MMOs before WoW and think its the first one to come out. so majority of player have never tried a old school type MMO to even know if they like it or not all they ever known are the current day MMOs. So i ask are they realy a niche game or a game type that hasnt been discovered by many.

As for OP im pritty much the same maybe im gettong too old but i realy hope not considering im only 22 atm :( and realy do miss those meaningful games that provided some challenges and the communitys and so on :( :( :(

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2745

11/05/13 12:19:27 AM#158
Originally posted by deniromonk

The last time I checked, many of those "old school MMOs" are still up and running, with healthy communities to boot....why are u searching if those games still exist?

Go play them....

Can't play original SWG on a supported server, or original UO, or original WoW for that matter.

Some of the games from the "old days" are gone, the rest bear almost no resemblance to the games they originally were: the companies monkeyed around with the gameplay too much, so those games are gone for all intents and purposes, too. Even Eve is falling into that category as well.

Go play them? From the time when they were actually good? Cant.

  KissThaRing

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/04
Posts: 58

11/05/13 2:31:00 AM#159
Originally posted by deniromonk

The last time I checked, many of those "old school MMOs" are still up and running, with healthy communities to boot....why are u searching if those games still exist?

Go play them....

OH WoW, SWG, CoH.. well, the ones I liked atleast are gone.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3272

11/05/13 2:50:30 AM#160
     I have pretty much given up hope that I'll find another MMORPG that resembles and reminds me of paper and dice AD&D.. I loved EQ for all those reasons.. The management of your character that took in account for weight encumbrance, food and drink, FIZZLES, mana restoration.. etc etc..  I occasionally play GW2, but not as a RPG, but just a cheap shooting arcade game.. Same reason why I play Diablo 3..  As long as devs and producers keep chasing the pipe dream of being the next World of Warcraft, we'll continue to see more failed attempts, then a serious game designed for a smaller market.. 
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