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87 posts found
  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

11/03/13 2:35:32 PM#41
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.

Thankfully none of the dungeons in any MMOs I ever played worked like that. I played good MMOs. Not your ficionalized version of EverQuest.

 

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

11/03/13 2:37:19 PM#42
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

 

 

For that, there is no better MMO than Vanguard. No other MMO has dungeons as large, immersive, impressive, with so many secrets as Vanguard dungeons. It beats even old EQ.


 

You make me regret quitting Vanguard a couple months after launch. I never did get to see any cool dungeons. The quest hubs annoyed me sufficiently to make me quit the game. Are there any good videos or screenshots of vanguard dungeons?

I doubt it. The game changed a lot from launch, performance wise for the better, gameplay wise for the worse. (more quest hubs, less death penalty, less complexity). But the dungeons are still there, and still the best in the industry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p6TrEPSr50

  Loktofeit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

11/03/13 3:48:29 PM#43
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.

Thankfully none of the dungeons in any MMOs I ever played worked like that. I played good MMOs. Not your ficionalized version of EverQuest.

Which are the MMOs that you played where the boss mob was anywhere other than his spawn room inside his dungeon/instance?

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Gaeluian

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/09
Posts: 76

To be or not to be, I don't really care!

11/03/13 4:58:27 PM#44

We'll never get the feeling that back that was EQ1. Dungeons were life. 2 to 3 hour corpse runs, contested bosses  with other guilds and fighting about it, 15 hour Halls of Testing, 4 or 5 hour old Sleepers' Tomb farming for primal weapons, Veeshan's Peak with 2 minute respawns and no  safe place to just 'whew, that was close!' and no camping. 

There is absolutely no comparison with EQ1.  Everything now is just too easy.

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

11/03/13 5:03:18 PM#45
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.

Thankfully none of the dungeons in any MMOs I ever played worked like that. I played good MMOs. Not your ficionalized version of EverQuest.

Which are the MMOs that you played where the boss mob was anywhere other than his spawn room inside his dungeon/instance?

Dark Age of Camelot had wandering multiple boss mobs, but that's not what I was speaking against. DAoC never had spawn camping because it wasn't a poorly designed game. Damon was painting an incorrect picture of things. In his version of reality, all non instanced MMOs had boss camping, and in all instanced MMOs, the bosses apparently wandered around causing damage and attacking things (this is entirely delusional)

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

11/03/13 5:31:55 PM#46
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.

Thankfully none of the dungeons in any MMOs I ever played worked like that. I played good MMOs. Not your ficionalized version of EverQuest.

Which are the MMOs that you played where the boss mob was anywhere other than his spawn room inside his dungeon/instance?

Dark Age of Camelot had wandering multiple boss mobs, but that's not what I was speaking against. DAoC never had spawn camping because it wasn't a poorly designed game. Damon was painting an incorrect picture of things. In his version of reality, all non instanced MMOs had boss camping, and in all instanced MMOs, the bosses apparently wandered around causing damage and attacking things (this is entirely delusional)

Is that what I said ?

The story to go kill a boss is normally he's been doing something bad. Not that he actually ever did.  EQ 2 was terrible for boss camping ( when I played it ) SWG had caves that always had groups sitting around waiting for a nightsister or whatever to spawn. The raider fort while fun was always full of ppl waiting for respawns. But I guess non of that ever happened because you say it didn't ?

It does sound like you're trying to say that in all the open world dungeons you've played, you have never had to wait for a boss to spawn because it was being camped....and that I'm delusional for things this happens.....funny.

Where did I say anything about instance dungeons spilling out into the real world...trying a bit too hard there ?

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

11/04/13 12:26:28 AM#47


Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

Originally posted by Arclan  

Originally posted by Tibernicuspa I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.     For that, there is no better MMO than Vanguard. No other MMO has dungeons as large, immersive, impressive, with so many secrets as Vanguard dungeons. It beats even old EQ.
  You make me regret quitting Vanguard a couple months after launch. I never did get to see any cool dungeons. The quest hubs annoyed me sufficiently to make me quit the game. Are there any good videos or screenshots of vanguard dungeons?
I doubt it. The game changed a lot from launch, performance wise for the better, gameplay wise for the worse. (more quest hubs, less death penalty, less complexity). But the dungeons are still there, and still the best in the industry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p6TrEPSr50


Thanks for the link! :)

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6386

11/04/13 12:29:21 AM#48

Bards Tale 1 - I remember mapping out the entire game on squared graph paper back in the day (Amiga 500 days)

I know not an MMO - but that it was my favorite :)

EQ1 and AC both come to mind. 

Open world dungeons had HUGE issues once they became crowded - but feeling the rush when they were fresh, unknown (no online guides or maps) - that was just pure joy!

The mystery of not knowing what lies around the corner - or how to handle the pulls, yeah - that was so awesome.

 

  Redcor

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 439

Your not in traffic you are traffic.

11/04/13 12:40:55 AM#49
Originally posted by furbans

Hnads down, AoC.  I can't say anything about TSW though.  Funcom tend to develop their dungeons very well.  There is a challenge where fresh new content is not something that people can plow through and actually takes time to figure out to complete.  I especially like how you needed an OT or 2nd tank and 2 diff type of healers unlike every other MMO where 3/5-2/3 was all DPS.

Don't know if they changed or not when I played years ago back around Godslayer release.  The combat combo stuff drove me nuts, was aggrivating playing a tank n trying to position to control the situation and having to put in the combo keys to get your abilities off.

+1  The most challenging and therefor fun. And yeas its hard on the tanks but only because people still have not learned how to dps in the trinity. Rather than go ball out right off to bat you go by the DDD rule.  D debuff 1st - D then dots (bleeds, tics) - D lastly big DPS.

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  LauraFrost

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 96

11/04/13 2:35:14 AM#50
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

And I get the feeling you didn't play many games except EQ (or you are conveniently ignoring those games to fuel your "argumentation"), and that you also lie about EQ in order to avoid admitting you're wrong. I've played EQ along with any MMO released in the last 20 years. I know that what you say is just nonsense. EQ dungeons, solo friendly? Please, man, give me a break. A big break.

About WoW changing the dynamic... you're wrong again. For instance, both DAoC and AO had mobs (and not even bosses!) you just couldn't solo. WoW didn't start anything.

Oh, and also... EQ had mobs out in the world (aka not in dungeons) that you couldn't solo either. No matter what your class was. No matter how "skilled" you were as a player (as if skill ever mattered in an EQ clone, but whatever).

So yes, I call nonsense.

 

Would you call it nonsense when I tell you that both you and him are correct?

In essence many classes can solo parts of EQ's dungeons (except maybe the most recent expansion's top tier raid dungeons; but not always). I know you both know that in almost every single dungeon on EQ some class(s) can solo somewhere.

 

I remember when PoP first was introduced and hearing that our top Wizard was soloing in Plane of Fire.... I didn't believe it but it's true!

I soloed in many dungeons (at their own level) with my SK mostly "aggro kiting" and "fear kiting" if I can. I know it's retarded and slow but I did it because I just wanted to. So, honestly you can't say that soloing somewhere in part of a dungeon is "nonesense" because we did it. But also if I say EQ dungeons were "solo friendly" it can be misunderstood because even for groups EQ dungeons were never "friendly".

I think what he wast trying to say is "several parts of EQ dungeons were soloable".

 

Cheers.

 

 

  LauraFrost

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 96

11/04/13 2:43:49 AM#51
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.

Yet you're fine with spawning a virtual reality of your own McDungeon where a copy of your favorite boss is conveniently cloned for you and your group's satisfaction. Thousands of the same "Mr. TerroizeYourAss" boss spawned for every Timmy and Jimmy, hurray!

 

*facepalm*

 

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

11/04/13 2:57:17 AM#52
Originally posted by LauraFrost
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.

Yet you're fine with spawning a virtual reality of your own McDungeon where a copy of your favorite boss is conveniently cloned for you and your group's satisfaction. Thousands of the same "Mr. TerroizeYourAss" boss spawned for every Timmy and Jimmy, hurray!

 

*facepalm*

 

When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?

How is an instance any different than a single player/multiplayer game ? All of those things are just a scripted "McDungeon" You just buy them in their own box first.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

11/04/13 4:09:29 AM#53
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.

AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.

But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.

THANK. GOD.   

AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.

Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.

This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.

I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.

My computer is better than yours.

  User Deleted
11/04/13 4:22:20 AM#54

I've always had the most fun with WoW, when it comes to dungeons.  Mostly because the core gameplay mechanics of your class are tried and true.  I especially liked it back in Vanilla and TBC because getting a group together for a dungeon run was part of the "gameplay" as well.  You were going to be spending the next 45 minutes to an hour with 4 other people, so you wanted to make sure you had a good group.  Reputation meant something, and communication was needed for things like CC and agro (tanks couldn't just hold agro against everything in sight like they can now).

It's horribly simplistic now, but nothing else really comes close even today.  Mainly due to low player pops for other games making the process kind of difficult.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

11/04/13 10:28:45 AM#55

Best dungeon crawl? Diablo series hands down. Great combat. Totally solo-able. Not a MMO, but still best dungeon crawls (to me).

 

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

11/04/13 10:46:32 AM#56


Originally posted by LauraFrost

I think what he wast trying to say is "several parts of EQ dungeons were soloable".

 

Cheers.

 


I said exactly what I meant to say. The dungeons catered to a wide range of numbers. You could solo some spots, you could duo, you could run with a full group. The problem is that particular poster tends to just make stuff up in his replies and he changed it to solo friendly and insinuated I meant everyone could just solo the dungeons when I said nothing like that.

Every single dungeon pre Luclin you could solo pretty large areas of the dungeon (if you weren't a Warrior or Rogue obviously). There were areas that only the best soloers could touch though. My Bard could actually solo almost every normal dungeon boss in the game pre Luclin using charm tactics, Monks could solo anything they could split effectively etc. It was different for every class.

The key to all of that is that the mobs in the dungeons were the same strength as the same level mob outside of the dungeon. When games started to make the dungeon mobs extra hard it pushed them towards requires a group only. Then when they linked them and made the impossible to split it pushed it towards required a full group. I much prefer the old style dungeon where you can go in with however many you have and then move to harder stuff if more people show up.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

11/04/13 11:57:04 AM#57
Originally posted by Ender4
I much prefer the old style dungeon where you can go in with however many you have and then move to harder stuff if more people show up.

I much prefer the new style dungeon where you go in an instance with a fixed group so the is no camp check, and content does not become trivial just because 5 more shows up and zerg the mobs.

 

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11780

11/04/13 12:58:36 PM#58
public dungeons of EQ2
  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

11/04/13 1:03:43 PM#59


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Ender4 I much prefer the old style dungeon where you can go in with however many you have and then move to harder stuff if more people show up.
I much prefer the new style dungeon where you go in an instance with a fixed group so the is no camp check, and content does not become trivial just because 5 more shows up and zerg the mobs.

 


Generally speaking they tune the instances to be trivial so everyone can complete it anyway.

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

11/05/13 11:16:39 AM#60
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by LauraFrost
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.

Yet you're fine with spawning a virtual reality of your own McDungeon where a copy of your favorite boss is conveniently cloned for you and your group's satisfaction. Thousands of the same "Mr. TerroizeYourAss" boss spawned for every Timmy and Jimmy, hurray!

 

*facepalm*

 

When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?

How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?

Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.

 

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