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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Your favorite dungeoncrawl mmo ?

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87 posts found
  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/03/13 10:04:26 AM#21

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

 

For that, there is no better MMO than Vanguard. No other MMO has dungeons as large, immersive, impressive, with so many secrets as Vanguard dungeons. It beats even old EQ.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

11/03/13 10:06:34 AM#22
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

 

For that, there is no better MMO than Vanguard. No other MMO has dungeons as large, immersive, impressive, with so many secrets as Vanguard dungeons. It beats even old EQ.

I'd argue that many AC1 dungeons were more complex than any VG dungeon could ever dream to be. Just talking about the place and its secrets, not about boss mechanics of course, were both VG and AC1 can only pale compared to WoW.

My computer is better than yours.

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2094

11/03/13 10:13:01 AM#23


Originally posted by Neo_Viper
I don't know what's more nonsensical in that post.

- That GW2 started the trend of "non soloable dungeons"... (which is hilarious).

- That EQ dungeons where solo friendly.

I actually think the first statement is the most ridiculous. Yeah, sure, MMO developers waited for 2012 to make a game which included dungeons requiring a group to complete. I won't repost the picture I added to my previous post, but you get it.


You again completely miss the point of a post. I never said GW2 started a trend of anything, I used it as an example. In GW2 it just isn't feasible to solo in a dungeon for most classes/players. True in other games but certainly true in GW2. They downlevel you and champion mobs are even more powerful in GW2 than elites in most games.

EQ dungeons were generally built for a wide range of group sizes. Every time you walked into an EQ dungeon that wasn't jam packed with players you would find someone soloing. There were certain areas of each that you could pull mobs solo or duo and get very good XP for them. Most of the times people sat by zoneline pulling solo mobs but there were always other areas you could find as well.

WoW actually changed the dynamic as I think they were the first one to make the actual mobs in the dungeon significantly harder than the normal mobs outside and make the bosses even a step harder and linked mobs in groups that simply could not be separated.

I get the feeling that you didn't really play EQ the way you talk about it.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

11/03/13 10:18:47 AM#24
Originally posted by Ender4

 


Originally posted by Neo_Viper
I don't know what's more nonsensical in that post.

 

- That GW2 started the trend of "non soloable dungeons"... (which is hilarious).

- That EQ dungeons where solo friendly.

I actually think the first statement is the most ridiculous. Yeah, sure, MMO developers waited for 2012 to make a game which included dungeons requiring a group to complete. I won't repost the picture I added to my previous post, but you get it.


 

You again completely miss the point of a post. I never said GW2 started a trend of anything, I used it as an example. In GW2 it just isn't feasible to solo in a dungeon for most classes/players. True in other games but certainly true in GW2. They downlevel you and champion mobs are even more powerful in GW2 than elites in most games.

EQ dungeons were generally built for a wide range of group sizes. Every time you walked into an EQ dungeon that wasn't jam packed with players you would find someone soloing. There were certain areas of each that you could pull mobs solo or duo and get very good XP for them. Most of the times people sat by zoneline pulling solo mobs but there were always other areas you could find as well.

WoW actually changed the dynamic as I think they were the first one to make the actual mobs in the dungeon significantly harder than the normal mobs outside and make the bosses even a step harder and linked mobs in groups that simply could not be separated.

I get the feeling that you didn't really play EQ the way you talk about it.

And I get the feeling you didn't play many games except EQ (or you are conveniently ignoring those games to fuel your "argumentation"), and that you also lie about EQ in order to avoid admitting you're wrong. I've played EQ along with any MMO released in the last 20 years. I know that what you say is just nonsense. EQ dungeons, solo friendly? Please, man, give me a break. A big break.

About WoW changing the dynamic... you're wrong again. For instance, both DAoC and AO had mobs (and not even bosses!) you just couldn't solo. WoW didn't start anything.

Oh, and also... EQ had mobs out in the world (aka not in dungeons) that you couldn't solo either. No matter what your class was. No matter how "skilled" you were as a player (as if skill ever mattered in an EQ clone, but whatever).

So yes, I call nonsense.

My computer is better than yours.

  Kyarra

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/18/03
Posts: 603

11/03/13 10:23:20 AM#25
EQ2 has plenty of dungeons to explore, though now when mentoring down it isn't as fun or challenging but for nostalgia sake I love EQ2's dungeons.
  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2094

11/03/13 10:25:18 AM#26


Originally posted by Neo_ViperAnd I get the feeling you didn't play many games except EQ, and that you also lie about EQ in order to avoid admitting you're wrong. I've played EQ along with any MMO released in the last 20 years. I know that what you say is just nonsense.

For instance, both DAoC and AO had mobs you just couldn't solo. WoW didn't start anything.

Oh, and also... EQ had mobs out in the world that you couldn't solo either. No matter what your class was. No matter how "skilled" you were as a player (as if skill ever mattered in an EQ clone, but whatever).


Again completely missing the point of a post. I never said I could solo every single mob in EQ and that WoW was the first game where you couldn't solo every mob. Nothing you just said had anything to do with my post. This seems to be your MO, attack an argument by saying something completely unrelated to it.

You could walk into a DAOC or AO dungeon and solo the mobs inside just fine. If I was waiting on a group I could just sit by the zone and kill junk and get XP in both of those games. I can do it in Age of Conan as well. All of those games cater to a wide range of players in their dungeons.

If I stepped into a GW2 dungeon alone on my Engineer I couldn't kill the first mob by the entrance. If I stepped into a WoW dungeon alone on most classes I couldn't kill the first pack of mobs in the dungeon if they were still giving me XP (Hunter could, Paladin could, most couldn't). If I stepped into a dungeon in EQ alone I could sit there and kill the stuff near the zoneline while I waited. EQ dungeons were the best place to solo in the game because of the XP bonus they gave.

I couldnt' just charge through the dungeon and solo everything in it, I never said anything remotely like that. There were just always a few spots in each dungeon where you could reliably solo pull or dual pull mobs and kill them.

If I had one buddy on we could usually find a boss or two we could kill in EQ. Heck even in WoW we could usually duo at least some of the bosses in dungeons. Again in GW2 I don't feel it is feasible to duo most of the dungeons. They toned the boss mobs up too much for it and there isn't enough control in the game.

I have played almost every MMORPG released at some point and the older games were in general much friendlier in this regard. In most old games you could play a dungeon solo, duo or with any range up to a full group and at least do part of a dungeon. The newer games are building more and more for a full group only experience.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

11/03/13 10:34:30 AM#27
Originally posted by Ender4

 


Originally posted by Neo_ViperAnd I get the feeling you didn't play many games except EQ, and that you also lie about EQ in order to avoid admitting you're wrong. I've played EQ along with any MMO released in the last 20 years. I know that what you say is just nonsense.

 

For instance, both DAoC and AO had mobs you just couldn't solo. WoW didn't start anything.

Oh, and also... EQ had mobs out in the world that you couldn't solo either. No matter what your class was. No matter how "skilled" you were as a player (as if skill ever mattered in an EQ clone, but whatever).


 

Again completely missing the point of a post. I never said I could solo every single mob in EQ and that WoW was the first game where you couldn't solo every mob. Nothing you just said had anything to do with my post. This seems to be your MO, attack an argument by saying something completely unrelated to it.

You could walk into a DAOC or AO dungeon and solo the mobs inside just fine. If I was waiting on a group I could just sit by the zone and kill junk and get XP in both of those games. I can do it in Age of Conan as well. All of those games cater to a wide range of players in their dungeons.

And it is in any way efficient? You will almost die to kill mobs that give you crap XP compared of what you could do elsewhere. But yeah, sure, this makes those dungeons "solo friendly". Whatever you say, pal.

If I stepped into a GW2 dungeon alone on my Engineer I couldn't kill the first mob by the entrance. If I stepped into a WoW dungeon alone on most classes I couldn't kill the first pack of mobs in the dungeon if they were still giving me XP (Hunter could, Paladin could, most couldn't). If I stepped into a dungeon in EQ alone I could sit there and kill the stuff near the zoneline while I waited. EQ dungeons were the best place to solo in the game because of the XP bonus they gave.

Ah, you mean you could kill stuff you outleveled by 10+ levels solo? Oh yeah, I mean, man, that's such an accomplishment. I can squat bugs in my garden too, that doesn't make me a mighty warrior.

I have played almost every MMORPG released at some point and the older games were in general much friendlier in this regard.

AC1 and UO were both more friendy than either EQ or DAoC, or AO concerning solo players. The EQ clone model (which DAoC, AO but also WoW are part of) is by definition single player unfriendly. Yeah, you can solo stuff, sure, but it's highly inefficient and basically totally useless at the end. WoW actually brought back the single player playstyle as a viable one, unlike EQ, DAoC, AO and other clones before, and that's one of the reasons why it became so popular.

I can accept that you say EQ is your favorite "dungeon crawl" MMO, hell, to each his own, but to say that EQ dungeons were "solo friendly" is huge bullshit I will not let said without disagreeing with it.

My computer is better than yours.

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2094

11/03/13 10:46:20 AM#28

Everything I said was about mobs that gave me XP. None of this has anything to do with the OP's post so this will be my last one. The absolutely fastest way to level solo in EQ before Luclin was to solo in dungeons, period. They were by far the best XP in the game. Luclin changed it up some since they stopped giving the best XP mods in dungeons quite so much or sort of blended what was a zone and what was a dungeon more.

If I wanted to solo in EQ you'd probably see me do something like closest lowbie dungeon to starting spot and then to Kurn's tower, then upper guk then Sol A or Crystal Caverns which were very solo friendly. Karnor's had a lot of solo spots. YOu could solo parts of Sebilis though not in its heyday when every mob was packed.

I enjoy'd EQ dungeons for full groups more than most games as well but what I miss from older games is that the mobs in the dungeons were the same as the mobs outside in difficulty which made them much more friendly to non perfect/incomplete groups. If we had a group of 2 or 3 or I was solo I still could get XP quite easily in a dungeon in EQ and yes it was more efficient than however you leveled in EQ. I get the feeling you were a sit in Oasis and level on the same croc over and over type which was pitiful XP in comparison.

I leveled at least 10 characters in EQ and all of them except the warrior did most of their solo time in a dungeon, usually while waiting for friends to show up.

And don't bother giving some point by point response to this that talks about a bunch of stuff I didn't even say like you usually do. It has nothing to do with what the OP wanted to hear about and to be honest you are going to be the first person I ever block on a forum because you never seem to add anything useful to a discussion and I feel like i'm always being trolled when you join it.

  Jimmac

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/10
Posts: 1676

11/03/13 10:51:58 AM#29
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
<>

I don't know what's more nonsensical in that post.

- That GW2 started the trend of "non soloable dungeons"... (which is hilarious).

- That EQ dungeons where solo friendly.

I actually think the first statement is the most ridiculous. Yeah, sure, MMO developers waited for 2012 to make a game which included dungeons requiring a group to complete. I won't repost the picture I added to my previous post, but you get it.

He didn't say GW2 started that trend. Can you read?

Also, you can definitely solo many spots in many EQ1 dungeons through Velious, at least assuming you are good, pick a class that can do it, and have the right gear.

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2435

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

11/03/13 11:09:33 AM#30

UO, Asheron's Call, and DAOC (Pre-ToA) had the best dungeons.

No Mmo today can even compare to them, imo.

People always coming and going in them, was the best.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2094

11/03/13 11:18:30 AM#31

Anyway back on topic for the OP.

Games generally have one of two types of dungeons. Open or Instanced.

Instanced dungeons like Tera the content is built for a full group and you really need at least close to a full group to do it. Usually speaking the mobs are harder than a normal mob so it precludes you from really having a chance to solo. You join a dungeon queue, do the dungeon and then start over again when you finish it. Some games have a harder mode of the basic dungeons for those who outgear the original mode but that is usually only a max level thing. So it sounds like you want one of these types of games that includes a hard mode so you can fit your challenge level properly.

The open dungeons don't generally exist anymore and that is what i was talking about above. With an open dungeon you can do different parts of the dungeon based on the strength of the group you have, stuff respawns and multiple groups can be in there so you can't always do the part of the dungeon you want. What I liked about them is I could sit by zone solo killing junk while I waited for friends to show up (no dungeon finder). Then maybe one friend joins me and we push in and do the easier bosses, then two more show up and we do whatever we want. The challenge doesn't become finishing the dungeon as much as maximizing how much of it we can do with what we happen to have. You could kill the same boss over and over again though in most of these the boss didn't' always spawn, sometimes a normal mob would and you'd have to wait another 20 minutes or whatever to try again.

The open dungeons were much more erratic and had more of a sense of danger to me. The instances are too clinical as every time you do the dungeon it is the same experience since most things don't respawn and the bosses are always up.

I much preferred being able to do the dungeons with just a couple buddies instead of having to have a full group. So if you haven't tried a game with dungeons like that you might want to try it once. Most of the games pre-WoW were like this.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5525

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

11/03/13 12:24:57 PM#32
I liked DDO's dungeons. The narrating DM was a nice touch too. Set the mood etc.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12224

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

11/03/13 12:36:24 PM#33
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.

AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.

But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.

THANK. GOD.   

AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4774

11/03/13 12:41:06 PM#34
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.

For me wow was the best dungeon crawl. The encounters where all interesting and challanging. I stopped playing at the end of wrath though so never had to see them go really down hill.

TERA is also fun. The combat style makes them very different than other mmos. They recycle bosses a bit too much but most of them have some type of unique attack.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12224

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

11/03/13 12:44:29 PM#35
Originally posted by The1ceQueen

UO, Asheron's Call, and DAOC (Pre-ToA) had the best dungeons.

No Mmo today can even compare to them, imo.

People always coming and going in them, was the best.

I really liked that aspect of it. They felt more dynamic than the current dungeons. I mean, I can do Wailing Caverns, Scarlet Monastery and Zul'Farrak over and over again, enjoying each group run through, but the older public dungeons were great in a different way. You went to them for different reasons, you had different expectations of them, and the trade off of not having a scripted experience was that you had more control over your experience.

In UO, if you wanted to just fight harpies at the entrance to Covetous you could do that endlessly and never need to go any further to enjoy it. If you wanted to hang out at the bottom of Deceit fighting lichlords, PKs and elementals, you could do that and skip the first four(?) levels entirely.

In AC, some dungeons were a madhouse of mobs, others were just groups leveling in different pockets and some became cool traditions - people loved to aid the newbies through the Focusing Stone quest and several of the Atlan stone quests.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1372

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

11/03/13 12:52:31 PM#36


Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.

 

For that, there is no better MMO than Vanguard. No other MMO has dungeons as large, immersive, impressive, with so many secrets as Vanguard dungeons. It beats even old EQ.


You make me regret quitting Vanguard a couple months after launch. I never did get to see any cool dungeons. The quest hubs annoyed me sufficiently to make me quit the game. Are there any good videos or screenshots of vanguard dungeons?

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 621

11/03/13 12:54:37 PM#37

DDO. I mean, its got Dungeon in the title... How can you go wrong with that?

:p

Seriously though, DDO offer a lot a very well designed dungeons. With all of them being offered in three difficulties and some in 6, there is enough challenge in there to keep you going for quite som time.

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1289

11/03/13 1:01:16 PM#38
Originally posted by Ender4

Anyway back on topic for the OP.

Games generally have one of two types of dungeons. Open or Instanced.

Instanced dungeons like Tera the content is built for a full group and you really need at least close to a full group to do it. Usually speaking the mobs are harder than a normal mob so it precludes you from really having a chance to solo. You join a dungeon queue, do the dungeon and then start over again when you finish it. Some games have a harder mode of the basic dungeons for those who outgear the original mode but that is usually only a max level thing. So it sounds like you want one of these types of games that includes a hard mode so you can fit your challenge level properly.

The open dungeons don't generally exist anymore and that is what i was talking about above. With an open dungeon you can do different parts of the dungeon based on the strength of the group you have, stuff respawns and multiple groups can be in there so you can't always do the part of the dungeon you want. What I liked about them is I could sit by zone solo killing junk while I waited for friends to show up (no dungeon finder). Then maybe one friend joins me and we push in and do the easier bosses, then two more show up and we do whatever we want. The challenge doesn't become finishing the dungeon as much as maximizing how much of it we can do with what we happen to have. You could kill the same boss over and over again though in most of these the boss didn't' always spawn, sometimes a normal mob would and you'd have to wait another 20 minutes or whatever to try again.

The open dungeons were much more erratic and had more of a sense of danger to me. The instances are too clinical as every time you do the dungeon it is the same experience since most things don't respawn and the bosses are always up.

I much preferred being able to do the dungeons with just a couple buddies instead of having to have a full group. So if you haven't tried a game with dungeons like that you might want to try it once. Most of the games pre-WoW were like this.

Do people still play these older games? They sound great.
:)

  Mithrandolir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/05
Posts: 1708

Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft' might win, by fearing to attempt

11/03/13 1:04:43 PM#39
Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.

 

 

  RudedawgCDN

Novice Member

Joined: 12/13/04
Posts: 488

11/03/13 1:34:47 PM#40

Asherons Call - the best!

Vanguard

EQ1

 

 

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