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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Is MMORPG longevity a myth?

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91 posts found
  PaRoXiTiC

Elite Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 557

10/30/13 2:38:08 PM#21

If you count the BETA I have been playing Knight Online World for 10 Years.

 

10 Years is something I would consider longevity. :D

  Cephus404

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

10/30/13 2:39:45 PM#22
I don't think it's a myth, certainly there are MMOs that I've played for much longer than a year, but I think that a lot of that is lack of options, not a game that keeps you playing.  As more and more MMOs became available, especially F2P games where you have no long-term commitment, the amount of time people spend on any particular game goes down, simply because they're not forced into one game for the long term.  In the past, when I left a long-term MMO, it's felt like it was a long time coming and I should have left earlier.  I don't get that feeling anymore.  As soon as I'm dissatisfied, I go elsewhere, I don't hang around for a long time hating the game but not having anywhere else to go.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/30/13 2:45:50 PM#23

Older games had longevity. New games not so much. Mainly because newer games are being developed to be more casual friendly, meaning faster progression.

This casualization of the genre has really become a plague that needs to be eradicated.  Casuals are now progressing at the speeds the normal and hardcore players were progressing at years ago. The only problem with that is the normal and hardcore players didn't all of a sudden slow down to keep pace with casuals. Now they are progressing 10x faster than they were 10 years ago leading to the same gap that has always been there between the Casual ---> Normal ---> Hardcore. 

All its done is cause developers to churn out content 10x as fast, leading to buggy implementation, or just rather lackluster implementation.  Mechanics recycled, textures recycled etc. 

If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

 

Casualization is not me hating on casuals. They need to be in the game/genre. But they shouldn't be catered to on the level that causes the genre to dumb itself down. Which is what we have been seeing these past years. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

10/30/13 2:59:25 PM#24
Originally posted by Vunak23

If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

 

Or you will see players jumping ship if the progression is too slow. It is not accident that the market is driving towards faster progression with so much competition.

It is a free market. Devs are free to tune their progression to suit any audience. You may not like it but they have no obligation to cater just to you.

  maccarthur2004

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 510

10/30/13 3:02:49 PM#25

I am not a expert in the matter and i can be talking bullshit, but mmos have a continuous cost to maintain the game available, while SP games no (no so much), so the mmos need a continuous income too, what almost always require continuous spends from the same playerbase.

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  ropenice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 585

10/30/13 3:14:42 PM#26
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vunak23

If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

 

Or you will see players jumping ship if the progression is too slow. It is not accident that the market is driving towards faster progression with so much competition.

It is a free market. Devs are free to tune their progression to suit any audience. You may not like it but they have no obligation to cater just to you.

I don't think he wants games to cater just to him. It seems he is making a point as to what games need to do to create longevity and keep players longer.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

10/30/13 3:25:03 PM#27

MMOs I've played come in two categories: under a month and over a year.  I don't think there's been anything in between.

However, I can't claim I'm representattive of the norm.

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1275

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

10/30/13 3:31:48 PM#28

 

Played Ultima Online for close to a decade, FFXI for about five to seven years, GW1 for a few years and WoW since it started.  When thinking of non-MMORPGs I played Starsiege Tribes for years and Neverwinter Nights as well.

 

I'd say it's more about the person than it is anything else; if it's something they enjoy, and if they have friends that play it, then it's entirely possible.  Even if they don't have friends, a game could be genuinely enjoyable like Ultima Online was with it's sandbox gameplay (and even how Minecraft is).

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

10/30/13 3:33:30 PM#29

They also need to accept that wow was an anomaly that will probably never be reproduced. Stop aiming for 12 million subs and go for stability.

Who sticks around for years to play a single mmo..... Not the guy looking to grab whatever he can in the first 30 days and then starts looking at what's new. Designing a game that's easy and fast will attract customers looking for easy and fast. You can't keep people like that in a single game anymore.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

10/30/13 3:34:02 PM#30
Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vunak23

If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

 

Or you will see players jumping ship if the progression is too slow. It is not accident that the market is driving towards faster progression with so much competition.

It is a free market. Devs are free to tune their progression to suit any audience. You may not like it but they have no obligation to cater just to you.

I don't think he wants games to cater just to him. It seems he is making a point as to what games need to do to create longevity and keep players longer.

Sure .. and i am making a point that if progression is slow, a game may lose customers. There is no conflict.

 

  Reklaw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

10/30/13 3:35:18 PM#31
Originally posted by Boneserino

And I would suggest that your first MMO does not count.  Most people experienced longevity there.  What about MMO's after your first?

Meridian59 about 8 months, UO near a year but with gaps of a few months and weeks, AO also off/on near a year, EQ not even a few months. Star Wars Galaxies 3.2 years and 8 months (small return in 2007). World of Warcraft from release but very randomly with months and weeks in between played till BC and left. Fallen Earth a year and a few months.

Every other MMO just fel short on being a more virtual world which I think is what is holding back longevity for me.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6095

10/30/13 3:37:57 PM#32

I do think the implied longevity is more of a myth than not. Even though I used to play mmos for longer periods, there were also fewer online options then.

Lineage 1 - 3.5 years

GW1 - I played for several years and have a few thousand hours in the game. I don't play it much anymore.

LotRO - 4.5 years straight. A little bit off and on after that.

EQ2 - 5 years off and on now. I take breaks for several months though.

The newer games (GW2, Firefall, Tera, Neverwinter, TSW) are great games and fun for me. I'll see how much I'll play them as time goes on and they age. I play games differently now and don't see myself committing to a single game for years on end again.

While I think implied longevity is a myth, I also think mmos are unique in that they are built to age. Some games like Oblivion, Skyrim, Torchlight 2, Neverwinter Nights, and anything else with a mod community and/or some sort of multiplayer or community interactivity are also built to last. They sort of transcend standard single player games into the mmo realm, but aren't full on mmos. 

Curse you AquaScum!

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/30/13 4:15:08 PM#33
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vunak23

If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

 

Or you will see players jumping ship if the progression is too slow. It is not accident that the market is driving towards faster progression with so much competition.

It is a free market. Devs are free to tune their progression to suit any audience. You may not like it but they have no obligation to cater just to you.

Players are already jumping ship on MMORPGs of late so I don't see your point. Its driving towards faster progression because for some reason publishers/developers feel that casuals are the driving force of the genre when they sadly aren't. 

Developers need to cater to their dedicated base and scoop up who ever happens to cling to that afterwards. Instead they are generalizing out their own concepts to cater to everyone and its watering their product down so far there are no distinguishing features to really set it apart from anything else out on the market. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

10/30/13 4:25:22 PM#34
Originally posted by Vunak23
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vunak23

If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

 

Or you will see players jumping ship if the progression is too slow. It is not accident that the market is driving towards faster progression with so much competition.

It is a free market. Devs are free to tune their progression to suit any audience. You may not like it but they have no obligation to cater just to you.

Players are already jumping ship on MMORPGs of late so I don't see your point. Its driving towards faster progression because for some reason publishers/developers feel that casuals are the driving force of the genre when they sadly aren't. 

Developers need to cater to their dedicated base and scoop up who ever happens to cling to that afterwards. Instead they are generalizing out their own concepts to cater to everyone and its watering their product down so far there are no distinguishing features to really set it apart from anything else out on the market. 

but they are the driving force behind the money as long as the content lasts. They just don't seem to plan past that stage of a games life.

  Homitu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2045

10/30/13 4:44:52 PM#35

I definitely answered 'no.' 

First of all, when you ask if we think longevity in MMOs is a myth, it certainly sounds like you're asking if it's impossible.  That's what a myth is in this context - a fabricated falsehood.  Now, you went on to clarify what you meant, OP.  But know that when people responded to this poll, they responded based on the generally understood definition of 'myth' which is apparently not what you meant.  So your poll is basically ruined right there, as people are responding to a question different from the one you're really trying to get at.  

That said, I still answered 'no.'  Plain and simple, MMOs and other persistent online games are designed with a fundamentally different goal than traditional games.  That goal is to keep people playing for as long as possible because the vast majority of the income from such games comes from purchases made or subscriptions after the initial box sale (assuming there even is one).  It doesn't matter if there's a high turnover of players.  Players will come and go all the time.  But the goal remains the same: make more players come in and try the game, and then keep players playing.  All of these games release periodical updates with new content to ensure players continue consuming their product.  That's the design.  That's the point.  

This is fundamentally different from single player or offline games, which just want to sell boxes.  It also doesn't matter how long these games are.  Skyrim may be a 200+ hour adventure, but it's goal was the same as 10 hour games like Portal or Bastion: sell one copy of itself.  Once the game is sold, it doesn't matter to the developer whether the player gets 10 hours or 10,000 hours out of it.  Actually, scratch that.  It would be decidedly bad if players got 10,000 hours out of a $50 game because that would mean the player is too preoccupied with that game to purchase any other games in the foreseeable future.  Single player and offline games are specifically designed to be temporary experiences.  MMOs are designed to be perpetual experiences.  

Now that doesn't mean offline and single player games can't last a long time.  I've probably played Final Fantasy VII-X fifteen to twenty times each over the past 15 years.  I'd probably call that replayability, though, not longevity.  And again, it does come at the expense of other games.  If I decide to fire up Final Fantasy Tactics yet again, that means I'm not playing some other new game that's out on the market now. 

And of course not every MMO will succeed in keeping its players; but that doesn't mean that's not the goal and that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of MMOs that do succeed at retaining its players.  In fact, I'd argue that probably every MMO that remains in business succeeds at this in some regard.  Maybe they haven't all succeeded in retaining you, but that's just because everyone has different tastes, and the only way to find one we'd like to stick with is by sampling a bunch of them.  

  Iczer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/04
Posts: 105

I want a world in a sandbox ... not a theme park!

10/30/13 5:17:04 PM#36

Longevity alive and well ...

UO - 5+ years

Shadowbane - 2 years

GW1 - 1 year

EVE Online - Going on 7 years

TSW - Just over a year (sporadic playing though)

GW2 - 2 months

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7637

10/30/13 7:10:54 PM#37

WoW 5 years 

 

Wushu 1 year so far.

 

1-3 month mmorpgs feel like a complete waste of time and $$

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/30/13 10:21:40 PM#38

Let me see:

10 yrs+

8 yrs (broken up, several stints)+

4-5yrs

3-ish

<2 yrs (many times)

What's interesting is that those titles are roughly in chronological order. A descending-order curve.

Proposed: MMO longevity is inversely proportional to a player's experience with the genre.

(In general, not exactly; of course you could have chosen one early title over another)

Alternate hypothesis: Companies are much more interested in (frequently) separating you from the cost of a box, than they are in providing you an eternal home.

 

Collect data, test hypothesis.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

10/30/13 10:41:27 PM#39

I played MUDs before MMORPG so maybe that makes me the oddball.

UO for about 3 months, the game was just too poorly made to play it longer. Not from a design standpoint mind you but from an exploitability, buggy, client stability etc standpoint.

I played EQ for around 4 years off and on.

I played AC, AO for under a year each, the games had good points but just way too many flaws.

I played DAOC/SB for around a year each. Decent games but again with some pretty huge flaws.

I played WOW way longer than I should have but including beta it was like 7 years or so off and on.

I played tons of other games in that time frame but none of them lasted long term.

GW2 is probably the longest I've played a game since or maybe AoC, both for like 4-5 months. It mostly has been that there just haven't been good games made than anything else though.

Make a good MMORPG and I'll pay it 2+ years, make the garbage they tend to feed us and I'll give up in 3 months or less.

Now during that entire career of gaming I dont' think i've played even 5 non MMORPG for as much as 4 months. MMORPG by far have the longest lifespan for me.

  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1188

10/30/13 10:51:26 PM#40

I'm pretty sure I had a paladin in WoW with 365 days played before BC came out.

It'd be swell to not completely steamroll content as soon as it's released. Winning all the time gets a little tedious.

It was around 154 days before anyone had cleared all the content in vanilla, and 142 days before anyone cleared Burning Crusade.

We will never see something like this ever again. After all everything needs to be accessible to the masses these days.

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