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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Action/Twitch, 8-button Combat

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79 posts found
  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11728

10/29/13 7:21:38 AM#61
Originally posted by Fangrim          hate your casual crap games where you play alongside each other and no one can steal your mobs or nodes and you get adventure xp by making cloths and pies.

Lets all be friends and play alongside each other zerging and never speaking.

players rarely speak in 5man wow instances - trinity makes no difference

  Ender4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2097

10/29/13 9:01:54 AM#62


Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Fangrim          hate your casual crap games where you play alongside each other and no one can steal your mobs or nodes and you get adventure xp by making cloths and pies. Lets all be friends and play alongside each other zerging and never speaking.
players rarely speak in 5man wow instances - trinity makes no difference


Sure in cross dungeon finder groups in an instance. People don't talk because they likely will never see those particular people again. GW2 showed me how empty a world can feel and how easy a game feels when there is no competition over any content.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11728

10/29/13 9:07:24 AM#63
Originally posted by Ender4

Originally posted by Nadi   players rarely speak in 5man wow instances - trinity makes no difference

Sure in cross dungeon finder groups in an instance. People don't talk because they likely will never see those particular people again.

fair enough - that's the primary reason i hate cross server dungeon finders

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3211

10/29/13 9:17:33 AM#64

I can live with twitch combat.  I wish people would stop calling it "action combat".  How is it more actiony to hold down a mouse button and press 1-4 (or 8 in this case) every 3-15 seconds.  Old tab target you pressed 1-12 keys every second (usually) Then you had a bunch of cooldowns.  I can break a sweat tanking in tab target.  In Neverwinter and tera, I can tank and just sit there with the mouse held down, and press aoe taunt every 8 seconds lol.  Gives me time to watch TV XD.

 

The thing I cannot stand is the lack of a trinity.  It will be just a Zergfest like in GW2.  Noone works together (which is what MMOs in general should be all about right?).  It takes the single player mentality from questing and brings it to dungeons..."I'm here doing my thing...there just happens to be other people doing the same thing as me".  In games with a Trinity, it takes teamwork.  I'll use the worst difficulty example of a trinity game, WoW.  In WoW, which is fairly simple and easy, when you compare it to some of the others (unless you talk about older raids), no matter how well geared and skilled you are, if you do not work as a team (even in LFR), you will fail.  Games without the Trinity emphasize the solo play that most older players have come to loath in MMOs and brings it into the realm of raiding.

 

My biggest gripe about this game is that the only thing this game has to do with Everquest, it seems, is the name.  It won't feel like Everquest, It won't look like Everquest, and it sure won't play like Everquest.

  Nephelai

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/13
Posts: 168

10/29/13 9:41:31 AM#65
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by Kyllien
Your question has no basis in fact.  So far what they have revealed does not allow for the assumptions you are making.  No details have been revealed of the combat system.  No details have been revealed of what the weapon or character skills are actually going to be.  Again, no details have been revealed of what combat is going to be like.  And to say it again, we do not know how they will be implementing combat.  Or maybe the final time, we know that the game will have combat; that is all.

Ok, we got the attacking the poll post out of the way.

Its not a poll, its your interpretation of something asking whether people agree with you. If you'd of asked people for their interpretation then that would be a poll.

 

The fact you used the term twitch gives a huge insight into your bias - ppl who have very poor aiming usually try to diminish aiming using the term twitch. Where as people who play aiming games at the higher level know there's much more to it than some twitch reflex.

  MadDemon64

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1091

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

10/29/13 9:47:25 AM#66
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by Kyllien
Your question has no basis in fact.  So far what they have revealed does not allow for the assumptions you are making.  No details have been revealed of the combat system.  No details have been revealed of what the weapon or character skills are actually going to be.  Again, no details have been revealed of what combat is going to be like.  And to say it again, we do not know how they will be implementing combat.  Or maybe the final time, we know that the game will have combat; that is all.

Ok, we got the attacking the poll post out of the way.

Ok, we got the OP disregarding a valid criticism of his post without giving any valid reasoning post out of the way.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  MMORPGtester

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/06
Posts: 70

10/29/13 12:12:09 PM#67
This post is irrelevant.  They have not released any pertinent information on this topic.
  Nitth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3414

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

10/29/13 2:30:35 PM#68


Originally posted by ignore_me
The lure of MOBA $$, the lack of trinity, the need for simple controls because movement along 3 axes will be necessary. What's your take on this feature of EQNext?

I immensely enjoyed skyrim and that had a total combat button configuration of 2-4.

In mmorpgs, i ten to like the 10-12 button configuration. i have played games that have more active buttons but in today's mmorpgs there really is not a need for so many.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  AIMonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2023

10/29/13 3:09:19 PM#69

Having more skills on your hotbar doesn't make a game more tactical and it usually doesn't add any depth to a game.  I'm playing EQ2 right now and honestly I can't stand the combat, even though the rest of the game has massive depth to it the combat is a nightmare with having to manage around 50 skills on my hotbar.  Whenever I'm fighting things in EQ2 I'm managing my UI and barely paying any attention to the game at all.  It's not very tactical, and only a few skills actually have tactical uses outside of just mashing in a rotation.  More importantly, it's just boring to me.

On the other hand playing a GS + Sword/Axe Tanking Ranger in GW2 was always exciting.  I had to pay attention to what was going on around me.  I never sat there and watched my UI.  I had to time my GS swings since every third attack let me evade, along with dodging and using defensive cooldowns.  I had to watch out for fields to leap through and make sure my fields were in a good position for blast combos.  I had to make sure to time Counterattack and use it so it would act as a full 3 second duration mobile block and not an animation lock for a lousy knockback.  I had to time my evades properly on my sword, and use my axe offhand skill to provide reflects at the most appropriate time.  I was fully engaged in the combat and not sitting there waiting for my cooldowns.

Another example is Guile from Street Fighter (pretty much any version of it he was in).  He has 2 special moves which is significantly less than other characters and the same number of normals, yet he isn't weaker or less tactical than any of the other cast.  He usually winds up somewhere around mid tier which is tournament viable.

I do think EQ2 has better designed boss encounters than GW2.  The PvE in GW2 was honestly pretty poorly designed and there was no end game raid content to keep me interested.  I think locking skills to weapons, despite the ability to swap was also a mistake and the lack of trinity seemed pointless and really seemed to bog down a lot of the encounter depth.  I hope EQ Next doesn't make this mistake, but it looks like they are headed in that direction which could wind up being disappointing.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  SupaAPE

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 97

11/07/13 2:46:01 PM#70
Originally posted by AIMonsterer 

I do think EQ2 has better designed boss encounters than GW2.  The PvE in GW2 was honestly pretty poorly designed and there was no end game raid content to keep me interested.  I think locking skills to weapons, despite the ability to swap was also a mistake and the lack of trinity seemed pointless and really seemed to bog down a lot of the encounter depth.  I hope EQ Next doesn't make this mistake, but it looks like they are headed in that direction which could wind up being disappointing.

If most of us players were quick to dismiss GW2 and call it out on all its flaws, i'd imagine Sony know the rights and wrongs from GW2. There's plenty of legit critical feedback on GW2 everywhere on the net.

 

 

  wemilmmo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 3

11/09/13 11:59:00 AM#71

quick to dismiss gw2?

 

 

nah its just that gw2 had a lot of E sports players a lot of guilds community guilds joined and they analysed the whole game everything.

 

gw2 WvW was perfect at first had a good crew it was growing all these guild v guild combats there was a lot smaller fights not these hugh zone blob v zone blob because of the guilds were running the show.

 

after a couple of months though peoples got scared they saw a group of 20-25 that could wipe out random players 50+ because they were working together.

 

sadly 50+ couldn't wipe off 20-25 and every server had a lot guild raids so what do devlin and the rest do? well they start destroy they never listened too WvW players only to pve/pvp and look what is happening they are everyday losing players this league made 6 hours que.

 

some here might think ''that's great then more ppls start play WvW''

 

sure well there is something called ruins and achievement well I saw them standing there with pve commander 50+ and they dropped in rings got the achievement went out let the enemy take it.

several servers reported that pve commanders tagging up destroying raids joining teamspeak screaming destroying annoying.

ppls that was never part of the server or ppls that played in vabii and lower pve servers joined the highest possible servers to get easy points and now those servers are dying because all guilds all original players leaving and those pugs that joined will eventually leave the server too killing a lot good servers.

 

my hope with everquest next is that the crew there will listen because a lot of good standing community guilds gonna join and I would hate to see another game destroy for em.

 

 

  SupaAPE

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 97

11/09/13 4:31:08 PM#72
Originally posted by wemilmmo

quick to dismiss gw2?

 

 

nah its just that gw2 had a lot of E sports players a lot of guilds community guilds joined and they analysed the whole game everything.

 

gw2 WvW was perfect at first had a good crew it was growing all these guild v guild combats there was a lot smaller fights not these hugh zone blob v zone blob because of the guilds were running the show.

 

after a couple of months though peoples got scared they saw a group of 20-25 that could wipe out random players 50+ because they were working together.

 

sadly 50+ couldn't wipe off 20-25 and every server had a lot guild raids so what do devlin and the rest do? well they start destroy they never listened too WvW players only to pve/pvp and look what is happening they are everyday losing players this league made 6 hours que.

 

some here might think ''that's great then more ppls start play WvW''

 

sure well there is something called ruins and achievement well I saw them standing there with pve commander 50+ and they dropped in rings got the achievement went out let the enemy take it.

several servers reported that pve commanders tagging up destroying raids joining teamspeak screaming destroying annoying.

ppls that was never part of the server or ppls that played in vabii and lower pve servers joined the highest possible servers to get easy points and now those servers are dying because all guilds all original players leaving and those pugs that joined will eventually leave the server too killing a lot good servers.

 

my hope with everquest next is that the crew there will listen because a lot of good standing community guilds gonna join and I would hate to see another game destroy for em.

 

 

Dude you're talking about WvWvW and I get that ;) but....I purchased Gw2 and played it with some friends at launch. The problems, or things that we disliked was universal. We all eventually just quit, and many others we knew just quit. Quitting a purchased Box game that does not have any Subs so soon after launch is a bad thing. I tried to love GW2....i actually really liked the graphics when turned on Max...however the gameplay just wasn't indepth or there. I'm a PvPer at heart and play many types of games but the Combat wasn't enough to satisfy. At times it kind of felt dull. I'm sure some people like it but for me it was just dull.

  svann

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 1634

11/10/13 11:38:06 AM#73
I dont want a game where 9 hotbars are needed for all the skills.  Id rather have 8 skills that are designed with enough thought to have game rather than play a game with 90 skills that just require fast typing skills.
  SupaAPE

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 97

11/10/13 11:59:44 AM#74
It would be nice if they incorporated a skill chain or two...into those 8 skills. More flavor plskkthnx!!
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

 
OP  11/14/13 3:27:22 AM#75
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by Kyllien
Your question has no basis in fact.  So far what they have revealed does not allow for the assumptions you are making.  No details have been revealed of the combat system.  No details have been revealed of what the weapon or character skills are actually going to be.  Again, no details have been revealed of what combat is going to be like.  And to say it again, we do not know how they will be implementing combat.  Or maybe the final time, we know that the game will have combat; that is all.

Ok, we got the attacking the poll post out of the way.

Ok, we got the OP disregarding a valid criticism of his post without giving any valid reasoning post out of the way.

Just take the poll or don't. I don't care if you don't like the question. I don't have the time or inclination to try and pander to some nebulous sense of journalistic integrity. It's not a study, it's just a fun poll on a forum.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

 
OP  11/14/13 3:40:22 AM#76
Originally posted by Nephelai
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by Kyllien
Your question has no basis in fact.  So far what they have revealed does not allow for the assumptions you are making.  No details have been revealed of the combat system.  No details have been revealed of what the weapon or character skills are actually going to be.  Again, no details have been revealed of what combat is going to be like.  And to say it again, we do not know how they will be implementing combat.  Or maybe the final time, we know that the game will have combat; that is all.

Ok, we got the attacking the poll post out of the way.

Its not a poll, its your interpretation of something asking whether people agree with you. If you'd of asked people for their interpretation then that would be a poll.

 

The fact you used the term twitch gives a huge insight into your bias - ppl who have very poor aiming usually try to diminish aiming using the term twitch. Where as people who play aiming games at the higher level know there's much more to it than some twitch reflex.

It's funny, because when I made the OP, I used a button named "Include a Poll."

My favorite game atm is Planetside 2. Your deduction powers are suck.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Magna104

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/06
Posts: 2

11/14/13 8:11:13 AM#77

I have asked for many of the changes that we're seeing in these "next generation" games for years.  I think they have all the right ideas with EQ next, but it's going to come down to execution.

I don't buy that you either have a "trinity" or its a zerg fest.  I think that you can have game play where, if everyone doesn't work together, everyone dies.  Now, with the compute power that we have, it is possible to have game play that requires tactical awareness and adaptation, as opposed to developing a strategy through trial and error then repeating that strategy over and over to "farm" loot.

Old style raid:

"Ok, when the boss gets to 50%, stop DPS except for the main tank, and debuff until the worms spawn.  Healers be ready to cure the worm rot and off-tanks pull each worm to a corner of the room so they don't cast the insta-death enchantment on the boss..."

You do a raid over and over, learning little bits of how to win by trial-and-error, and then once you know how to win, you keep doing it so that everyone can get the uber boss loot, sometimes for many months or even years if you have a big guild.

15 years ago, it had to be that way.  The developers had to design these encounters in advance because computing power was limited and the NPC behavior was static.  It didn't change based on what the players were doing.  We don't have that limitation anymore.  the behavior of NPCs can adapt based on what the players are doing now, and the players have to adapt in real time too.

In this way, in these newer games, PVE is going to start to look more and more like PVP.  You'll be fighting an NPC or group of NPCs who are trying to win and adapting to what you are doing.

Is this a good or a bad thing?  It depends on why you play, right?  Some people get a huge charge out of knowing the strat to kill that uber boss encounter and being a "sombody" in the social structure of their guild and the game.  They like their raids to have tactics that can be learned and known in advance so that they can be the one explaining what to do as in the "old style raid" scenario above.  They aren't going to like raids that require tactical awareness and adaptation.  That's going to seem chaotic and pointless ot them, and it won't give them the social strokes that they want.

Other people want an edge of your seat life-and-death struggle on every raid, where you don't know in advance exactly what's going to happen when, and you have to react quickly to win.  For them, spanking the same boss that you know how to spank for years is just horrendously boring.  

Fortunately, for those who like the old style play, it's still there for you.  They still expand EQ1 regularly, and other games out there also offer the static strategy "trinity" style of play that you know and love.  

 

  wizardanim

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/24/07
Posts: 279

11/14/13 8:36:16 PM#78
Originally posted by ignore_me
The lure of MOBA $$, the lack of trinity, the need for simple controls because movement along 3 axes will be necessary. What's your take on this feature of EQNext?

Non conventional tanks/healers/dps does not mean lack of trinity.  They said you will not see a classical tank, but there will still be 'tanks' as we are familiar with them - characters that can take a beating.  There will still be healers as we know them - characters specialized in tending to others wounds.  There will still be dps - characters oriented around doing more damage than others.  From the sounds of their announcement, different creatures will require different combinations of the aforementioned to be defeated.

So, the entire game isn't just a set of three roles walking around able to defeat everything in the world.  It is about how the player can understand what they are up against, and adapt to the situation/combat at hand.  Sounds much more interesting to me.  Be smart to create the trinity via constructing a character that represents your ideal of that roll for a given situation.

  jerlot65

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/08
Posts: 802

11/14/13 8:56:22 PM#79
I like the premise of a game that is "Easy to learn, but hard to master".  Hopefully EQN uses the 8 button method towards this goal.

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