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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Help me understand. Why do you buy gold?

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293 posts found
  Silverchild

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/07
Posts: 118

10/25/13 1:49:42 AM#281
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Kwaynos99

Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.

Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.

I stopped reading here because it was getting hard to see over all your bull shit. Say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. Accounts are getting hack but it's not the people you buy gold from....sounds legit to me.


+1

General chat of pretty much ANY new MMO is being spammed by constant gold farmer spam.

Last I checked, my email junk folder was also full of "your XXX account will be cancelled if you dont click this link!!"

3rd party Rmt ARE stealing accounts, hacking, botting, whatever works to make them more money.

Gold buyers ARE doing stuff against the rules to gain an edge over other players.


Kwaynoss99, we understand, you love buying gold, and you'll never question the policies of 3rd party RMT as long as you get your gold.  But could you point me to a legitimate gold farmer?  Oh, since its against the ToS of most game, good luck with that, I guess?

  TribeofOne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 979

10/25/13 2:06:46 AM#282
..because i hate crafting
  Silverchild

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/07
Posts: 118

10/25/13 2:36:50 AM#283
Originally posted by Kwaynos99

Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.

Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.

They buy into the myths and propaganda that it is gold farmers, not economies designed to fail from Day 0, not the level system, not player inflation, which destroys the economy. Hatred stemming from ignorance of what ACTUALLY destroys economies, and how little an impact gold farmers actually have on the already ruined economics.

FFXIV would like to have a talk with you. A month after release, some people were buying and selling items for 2x to 3x the amount of money that lvl 50 character can possibly have. Its not the devs. Its not the "fail economy". Its not player inflation (the game just released, ffs!).  Its the massive inflation brought by 3rd party RMT.

 

Then SE stepped up and outright DELETED gold that was acquired by 3rd party rmt (would have loved to see the face of someone that bought tons of gil... log in one morning only to find that all his money was gone.) And then suddenly price were back to normal.  But.. its because of the fail economy, right?

 

Fact is, thanks to RMT, most players werent able to purchase gear because it was too expensive, only one month after release! RMT is a vicious circle. RMT raise the prices, this encourage people to buy gold, and this raise the prices even further.

They buy into the irrational stereotype that ALL gold farmers are illegitimate criminals. ALL are chinese (some here probably don't even know there are different types of "asians", and just lump them all under one stereotype), and ALL are exploiting workers and prisoners with slave wages and long hours which result in high worker suicide rates. Ignorance that some are legitimate businesses that do not exploit their workers.

They buy into the irrational fear that gold farmers hack accounts en mass, and the primary way they get gold is hacking people's accounts. Ignorant of the reality that gold farmers who do hack accounts, do it for the max level character- not the gold, and only the most evil of hackers sell for every single penny. Ignorant of Blizzard's policy to instantly reverse and give back all money and gear after a hack, which neutralizes any harm done. Ignorant that the majority of gold farmers do NOT hack accounts, and instead farm using a much more efficient method.

Oh guys, I wasnt hacked for my gold, they were just after my characters, what a relief!!  ...Are you for real?

The fact that blizzard (ONE company. There are other MMOs out there) has a pretty awesome policy on hacking is irrelevant. "Hey, I'll punch you in the face, but you can go to the hospital, so no harms done, right?".  Laughable.

My friend got his account hacked, and he still lost a week of playtime because he had to wait for a complete rollback, btw. Fact is : getting your account hacked SUCKS. Period.

Ignorant of how a vast majority of gold farming businesses rely on outsourcing gold farming AND gold selling, and merely act as a middle man between the individual gold farmer and the gold buyer. Ignorant of how the process actually works. Ignorant on how those businesses which outsource the work, which is a vast amount of them, have little to no knowledge of the evils the minority do. How can one stop that which they don't know, while keeping legitimate gold sellers safe.

They must live under a rock if they have "no knowledge" of the evils the so-called minority do. I'd hire a PR manager if I had a legitimate gold selling business going on. I'd also hire a PR manager if I had a legitimate drug selling business going on, just sayin.

Ignorant of how phishing scams and account hacking do not have such a high success rate in WoW, to accumulate any real amount of gold. Ignorant that hacked accounts are more valuable as playable, fully equipped characters, than as quick sells and closes.

Oh guys, they hacked me, but they're keeping my char instead of selling it, WHAT A RELIEF. This keeps getting better...

This is supposed to make us feel good about gold farmers... how?

Ignorance that the most successful of farmers use bots, and most of all: Ignorant on botting. How common botting is, even among normal users. How botting is far closer to cheating than the manual labor of farming or multi-box farming with macro's.

 

Botting might be common, but this doesnt make it acceptable. What are you trying to say, here?

 

Botting might be "better" than hacking, but its still excess gold entering the economy. In a way, botting is worse than hacking ,because hacking is just a "transfer" of funds, while botting generates completely new ressources.

In the end, gold farmers do not make up even a sliver of why the economy is typically messed up in MMORPG's. They are not ALL illegitimate businesses. Only the more desperate or stupid people hack, and only the most evil of those idiots sell and quit instead of use the character to farm until locked out.

 

Even though I specifically said I do not want answers to my rhetorical question as to "Why do people hate gold buyers so much?" because I already know the answer... you all only solidified my hypothesis even further. Hatred, like most forms of irrational logic, stems from ignorance. It is no different than the racism that results from ignorance of minorities, or the hatred of "the welfare" that results from ignorance as to how the system actually works.

 

I dont think its hate. I dont like cheaters. I dont like gold buyers. I dont like people that use aimbots in FPS. I dont like people that use map hacks in RTS.

 

I knew a guy that used map hack in starcraft. He was a cool guy outside of the game, but I never wanted to play with him in a game (even in the same team).  Same thing here.

 

edit : I'll add a quote because I LOVE QUOTES! (John Smedley, SoE. http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/01/14/a-ces-interview-with-soe-ceo-john-smedley-pt-2/)

John Smedley: I think the issue of farming is higher on the radar now than it ever has been. The behinds the scenes things are really frustration. A lot of these farmers are essentially stealing from us. What they do is they charge us back all the time. They use a credit card –sometimes stolen, sometimes not – to buy an account key. They use the account for a month, and then they call the credit card company and charge it back. We have suffered nearly a million dollars just in fines over the past six months; it's getting extremely expensive for us
  Rintintin

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 65

10/25/13 3:11:30 AM#284

I once bought gold for SWG back when gold farming in SWG just seemed to be just taking off...I bought a million credits which at the time, was a shit ton of credits.  I bought it on ebay, and following that i started getting spam emails from assholes telling me i would be banned etc, I never was, but it scared the hell out of me. SWG was also my first MMO and I had no idea how to earn them so I bought them so I could buy shit. 

I haven't bought gold from farmers since, too scared they are crimminals or that I would get a shit ton of spam.  I do play plenty of games with item malls, and I figure that is simply the publishers gold farmer counter.  If it is a FTP game, and I enjoy the game, I figure buying a few thing in the item mall is my way of thanking them for making a fun game...for example playing neverwinter right now, and enjoying it, so I spent  $50 on zen to reward the makers for a fun game.  It is about the cost of a game so I figure i am getting my money's worth. 

My other hobby is mountain biking, and I just spent 6k on a bike, so pissing away a few bucks at the item mall isnt a big deal.  I am fortunate to have some expendable income, but I can see where item malls, gold from farmers, etc could be addictive to try and keep up and that could really suck if you don't have the income or shouldnt be using your income on such crap.   I only have expendable income because i work my ass off IRL so i have little time for grinding in games, hence why item malls and FTP games seem to be somewhat succesful, I am guessing there are enough dumbasses like me to keep them funded  because we don't have the time otherwise...sorry everyone.   

I am torn on the issue actually.  I don't think shit bag spammers should be able to sell gold, nothing worse than having to ignore 20 people everytime you enter a zone because they are jamming up chat with spam selling gold.  Neverwinter has issues with this.  I am not an IT person so I do not understant why it isnt easier for a game company to filter that shit before it goes public.  If there was a legit way of doing it, without the annoying spam, then fuck...free market rules, but right now it sucks due to spammers.  I lament because one of them gold spamming shitbags was probably the asshole I bought credits from back in 2003, 4 or when ever it launched, I probably encouraged or enabled that douche to keep his shitty business going...sorry once again.

Cheers

Rintintin

edit: to the poster right before my original post, didn't think of that effect that crimminals, may be using stolen credits cards etc, but I don't dought it happens.  One could argue it is the cost of doing business, but that sucks...I think if it was a cost that was not acceptable the industry would invest more in combating the issue...it seems to happen in other sectors, but again, I am clueless to this sort of thing...I am sure many of you know more about this issue than I.

  dave6660

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2367

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

10/25/13 9:07:20 AM#285
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Silverchild
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Silverchild
Originally posted by Kwaynos99

I'd love to know where this intense hatred and irrational fear stems from. Why do people detest gold buyers so much?

 

Again :

 

1- Buying gold from 3rd party RMT encourage hacking, botting,  spamming, phising, and destroying the economy.

2- is specifically against the game rules, most of the time.

 

So... someone that doesnt play by the rules, to gain an "edge" against other players. Why would we hate that?

 

Why do we hate aimbotters so much, in FPS games? They just want that little "edge" to make them competitive, too!

So you are only against buying gold from 3rd party and think buying gold from cash shop is ok?

Buying gold from cash shop essentially invalidate your two points.

 

Exactly.

 

There is nothing wrong with a game with a built-in cash shop. The game is balanced around it. Its part of the rules. And you buying gold from the shop actually HELP the devs instead of hurting the game. Theres nothing wrong with it.

 

Now, a game with a built-in cash shop is probably not a game I want to play. But many people love P2win.

 

edit : I guess what I'm saying is : If you like buying gold, why dont you play a game designed for it (F2p with a cash shop), and stop ruining my games. 

oh .. then we are in 100% agreement.

I do play f2P games and ignore the cashshop, but i have no problem if others are buying gold in a cashshop. In a game without, and not sanctioned by the devs, I do have a problem.

 

This might be the second of third time in all of Narius' 15k posts that I agree with him :)

If the game company chooses to sell to gold directly then I'm fine with it.  I would never play such a game but that's a different story.

On the other hand if it's against the terms of service then there's nothing a player is going to say to me that will justify buying gold from a 3rd party.  It's cheating, end of story.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  syntax42

Elite Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1228

10/25/13 9:34:30 AM#286
Originally posted by Silverchild
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Kwaynos99

Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.

Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.

I stopped reading here because it was getting hard to see over all your bull shit. Say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. Accounts are getting hack but it's not the people you buy gold from....sounds legit to me.


 

3rd party Rmt ARE stealing accounts, hacking, botting, whatever works to make them more money.

 

Assuming all gold sellers are hacking criminals is like assuming all stock traders are using insider information.  There's money to be made, but not everyone is committing criminal acts to acquire the money.  They aren't all performing illegal acts, but the few who do ruin the reputation for their "industry".  

I'm not defending gold sellers at all.  They ruin the economies of games.  Gold farmers are the equivalent to Obama giving everyone in the US $1,000,000.  You might be happy at first, but when you have to pay $5,000 for a hamburger you will realize the flaw in the logic of giving everyone that much money.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3176

10/25/13 9:44:41 AM#287
Originally posted by syntax42
Originally posted by Silverchild
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Kwaynos99

Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.

Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.

I stopped reading here because it was getting hard to see over all your bull shit. Say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. Accounts are getting hack but it's not the people you buy gold from....sounds legit to me.


 

3rd party Rmt ARE stealing accounts, hacking, botting, whatever works to make them more money.

 

Assuming all gold sellers are hacking criminals is like assuming all stock traders are using insider information.  There's money to be made, but not everyone is committing criminal acts to acquire the money.  They aren't all performing illegal acts, but the few who do ruin the reputation for their "industry".  

I'm not defending gold sellers at all.  They ruin the economies of games.  Gold farmers are the equivalent to Obama giving everyone in the US $1,000,000.  You might be happy at first, but when you have to pay $5,000 for a hamburger you will realize the flaw in the logic of giving everyone that much money.

So many excuses, obfuscations and justifications in this thread.

 

It's amazing how hard some people will try to justify their own misdeeds.

 

If you buy gold from a 3rd party that is not authorized to sell it by the game developer, you are violating the ToS of the game.

It's wrong. You're cheating. Your account should be banned.

 

It's really that simple. You don't like the rules in the game ? Don't play the game.

  bliss14

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 539

Ahh devil ether.

10/25/13 9:58:32 AM#288

Hypothetical question here.  I have never bought nor sold gold, this is just a thought that crossed my mind after reading some of this rather large thread.  Say someone plays a game like WoW for a few years and they amassed around 500k in gold.  A quick google search has a result saying 100k is worth around $160.  So 500k is $800. 

Do you people think in a case where that gold was accrued over a period of years through honest playing would be morally acceptable to be sold?  If all of that person's gold was earned by ingame rules then theoretically there should be no economic impact selling it to another player.  

Not really related but the person would have spent in 4 years of playing $720 in sub fees. 

  Silverchild

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/07
Posts: 118

10/25/13 12:34:18 PM#289
Originally posted by bliss14

Hypothetical question here.  I have never bought nor sold gold, this is just a thought that crossed my mind after reading some of this rather large thread.  Say someone plays a game like WoW for a few years and they amassed around 500k in gold.  A quick google search has a result saying 100k is worth around $160.  So 500k is $800. 

Do you people think in a case where that gold was accrued over a period of years through honest playing would be morally acceptable to be sold?  If all of that person's gold was earned by ingame rules then theoretically there should be no economic impact selling it to another player.  

Not really related but the person would have spent in 4 years of playing $720 in sub fees. 

 

Interesting question.

I still think that player to player trading should never involve real money. See D3 real money auction house, and how even blizzard now realize it was a bad idea. They are going to remove it.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20699

10/25/13 12:54:27 PM#290
Originally posted by Silverchild
 

 

Interesting question.

I still think that player to player trading should never involve real money. See D3 real money auction house, and how even blizzard now realize it was a bad idea. They are going to remove it.

Blizz is removing ALL AH, not just the RMAH one. And the reason they are giving has nothing to do with real money. They think it is better (for the game) to have players find their loot, instead of buying them.

In principle, i don't see a problem with player to player real money transaction. If you have a AH, may as well have a real money one.

 

  TheScavenger

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 700

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

10/25/13 12:58:05 PM#291

Well, in EVE it is easier to buy game cards and sell them for ISK so you can suicide gank in high sec. I spent 1000 USD in the past 2 years (coming up on 3) on EVE and have so much ISK (and still have time cards to use). I've actually earned money to be honest, cause I've earned far more ISK suicide ganking than lost.

 

(edit: Just spend 500 usd on game cards, sell most of them...use cheap ships and enjoy getting even more ISK :D aim for the industrial ships though. Too many people think high sec is safe :D)

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  Loktofeit

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Joined: 1/13/10
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Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

10/25/13 1:09:04 PM#292
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Well, in EVE it is easier to buy game cards and sell them for ISK so you can suicide gank in high sec. I spent 1000 USD in the past 2 years (coming up on 3) on EVE and have so much ISK (and still have time cards to use). I've actually earned money to be honest, cause I've earned far more ISK suicide ganking than lost.

(edit: Just spend 500 usd on game cards, sell most of them...use cheap ships and enjoy getting even more ISK :D aim for the industrial ships though. Too many people think high sec is safe :D)

I'm hoping there are other current EVE players that visit this thread, because it would be a darn shame to enjoy the humor of your post all by myself. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1828

10/25/13 1:23:44 PM#293
Originally posted by bliss14

Hypothetical question here.  I have never bought nor sold gold, this is just a thought that crossed my mind after reading some of this rather large thread.  Say someone plays a game like WoW for a few years and they amassed around 500k in gold.  A quick google search has a result saying 100k is worth around $160.  So 500k is $800. 

Do you people think in a case where that gold was accrued over a period of years through honest playing would be morally acceptable to be sold?  If all of that person's gold was earned by ingame rules then theoretically there should be no economic impact selling it to another player.  

Not really related but the person would have spent in 4 years of playing $720 in sub fees. 

Personaly, no it wouldn't be ethical but one could understand it.....and I don't think the degree to which the act was considered unethical would be all that significant. I'd put it roughly in the same category as someone finding a $100 bill in a store parking lot and pocketing the bill rather then going into the store to turn it in to lost and found. Not the right thing to do....but nothing to crucify someone over either.

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